Banno

Do you include yourself in that? This thread draws out rational conclusions from the common doctrine of christianity. One might address the arguments....

There's folk as will give aid to the homeless, not because they wish to avoid torture, but because it is the right thing to do.

I do. Do you read yours? You would save god from being immoral by denying basic christian doctrine. Jesus himself, according to scripture, speaks of e...

Sure. So what do we conclude from this - where does it lead us? We are left to make a decision that will have the utmost impact without sufficient inf...

...or perhaps "Modern people of the West" have reached a point of not accepting conclusions based on insufficient and contradictory accounts.

Yep, the afore mentioned leap of faith, the unjustified conclusion, perhaps combined with what call the thug-god. That's rather the point.

It's not a true christian that describes but a good human. There is no Christian monopoly on virtue. So why the monopoly on not receiving eternal puni...

So true Christians pay no heed to at least some of the doctrines of christianity. They are far less common than True Scotsman. Sharing a meal with som...

A more thoughtful reply - thanks. For those who haven't noticed, the section on "Universal salvation" in the article, this idea of a deadline is discu...

Indeed, intolerance is apparently inherent in monotheism. "Thou shalt have no other god before me" and so on.

It's not something you know so much as something you decide. What do you think - is eternal damnation a proper response to not loving someone? Your an...

Because it is an infinite punishment for a finite transgression. Think I might have mentioned that. Also, it's in the first few paragraphs of the arti...

Well, two lines later he says : So there's that. I remain unconvinced.

Neither I nor Lewis assumed such a thing. The issue here is as to the puzzling inconsistency of certain common doctrines.

There is at least one, I think, original argument presented in the text. It's at page 234, and involves the area in which he is most well known, count...

Ah, is that all? So stop trying to convince me of things I already hold to be so, and we might have more productive discussions. :wink:

You have captured the apologists reply perfectly.

Sometimes the obvious does need to be stated, so than you for stating it. Thanks also for taking some time to understand the argument and the personal...

Well, yours and mine, if you like. I say a god who inflicts infinite torture for finite offences is not worthy of worship. What say you? Ethical relat...

Lewis is one of the most interesting philosophers of the last fifty years. His astute yet eccentric analysis of smalltalk, of conventions, and the arg...

Sure, but this is not what is in question here. Rather, it is that Christians believe god punishes those who displease him with eternal torture; that ...

Interesting. I do have a Catechism somewhere, I should dig it out. Thank you for your efforts. The commonest reply here is that Christians do not actu...

Pretty much, with the usual qualification that an intentional state can be placed in the form of an attitude towards a proposition, and hence made the...

All of this can be put simply a "Spider hallucinations look like spiders" - no use of "qualia"! What's relevant about an hallucination of a spider is ...

What is it you think talk of qualia adds here?

Thanks for this. Those who have claimed that belief in hell is not central to Christianity would do well to consider your post. If they would make the...

Pretty much right. The problems arise as one asks folk to specify were and how qualia are of use. For example: The question is, how do qualia improve ...

The difficult relation here is between intentions and world-modelling. Both say "The world is this way", one in terms of intentional attitudes towards...

:up: :party:

Well, yes. No finite offence, or conjunction of such offences, could possibly merit infinite punishment.

I think that inaccurate. The PDF I cite - did you use it? - does not have the footnotes; but they are copious. I think it sufficiently "orthodox" - a ...

On investigating, there are a few such articles written not long before his death. I'm enjoying his humorous style.

Indeed, with this i will pretty much agree. But I would make the observation that this is incompatible with the Christian view that one must hold to s...

Sure it is. You are right. We are all obliged to judge using what we have at hand. And what we have at hand indicates that god is evil. Despite this, ...

What question? You habitually fail to make your point, ask your question, or present your argument. It's tedious and tendentious. Give me a reason to ...

This: Divine Evil The argument is extensive.

Why? Looks plain wrong to me. "Survival of the fittest" is not what evolution is about.

A view espoused without reason may be dismissed on the same basis. I still do not see any merit in your contributions. I've explicitly argued that bot...

Cheers. Threads such as this point to that very weirdness, pushing folk to look at it again. It's in tune with the rejection of doctrinarian philosoph...

That's why we are here.

The father was good because he had his children baptised? Leaving that aside, is your point that good catholics, the pope included, do not actually be...

Perhaps we might agree that the presumption of virtue ont he part of the religious is... questionable?

Did you argue for this somewhere? And why do you imply that my views are materialist? What gave you that impression?

An excellent assessment. The more so, for you, since you now have no need to address the arguments presented in the article, or hereabouts.

Will do. And others will join us. Thanks for your contributions.

Getting along with them is fine, until they want to introduce legislation that allows them to persecute LGBTQI+ children.

More stuff that is addressed in the article - I comment it to you, it's quite a good read. The metaphor is of a parent who leaves sharp objects, explo...

There's a short yet quite brilliant little argument concerning this, and making use of possible worlds, second paragraph of p. 234. And then Lewis goe...

Well, these are not mutually exclusive. Indeed, a judgement that does not involve understanding is a poor judgement. So let's understand. Lewis raises...

Yep. That pretty much sums up how the debate concerning qualia is best understood. Hence my continuing view, that qualia lead to nonsense, and are bes...