khaled

I don't think you get the point of antinatalism. It's not about protecting "unborn babies" from the woes of life. It's about reducing pain. Pure and s...

That's exactly what the AN is trying to do. The AN wants to reduce suffering as much as possible and so killing people painfully is not the way to do ...

Why not. If you are to look at a world with no humans in it how much human suffering is there? 0. That is the goal No it doesn't. A rock is a rock eve...

That's false. There is plenty of reason to have children. If no one gives birth for 10 years you will suffer a slow and painful death of starvation du...

That is indeed exactly what it argues NO THEY DON'T. That's the whole point. Do the math Little suffering X infinite subjects X infinite time = infini...

So if I kill someone painlessly it's okay? Because there is nothing to experience the pain or complain afterwards? It's really very simple Give birth:...

yes that's exactly what I'm doing. Who are you to decide at what point unpleasantness can become traumatic. Also why doesn't it make sense to you to s...

This is flawed reasoning. If all evidence points to the fact that most people would overlook a minor theft that does not make it okay to steal. If all...

So are you implying here that causing harm on others for individual survival is immoral? If so the only possible logical conclusion is suicide. This i...

do you happen to be an antinatalist? Because I'm trying to debate both sides of the argument here. How do you respond to this if you are? If giving bi...

yeah there are lol. Libertarianism for example. Or normal utilitraianism not negative utilitarianism

you can't take that risk with someone else is the point. That's like saying "kidnapping is ok if the kid later enjoys his captivity". Well what if he ...

I restated P1 as: Taking a course of action that results in more net suffering in the world than there would be without taking that course of action i...

yes that is exactly what that implies. Or rather, it implies that it would be better to fart AWAY from you than I'm your vicinity which makes perfect ...

I redid P1 again if you didn't read (sorry about that) Now as for your argument: You don't know enough of them then lol. I know plenty that want that

suffering: unpleasant sensations. I don't think we can simplify it further than that nor do I think you can define "unpleasant" without making a circu...

1- too easy, that's what I'm trying to avoid 2- impossible to claim otherwise as there is no evidence of suffering ever being removable from existence...

Some things, such as pain, are undefinable. They are USED in definitions. Define: run I'm pretty sure you know what pain is. Whatever gets the least a...

suffering is any form of mental or physical pain

Ooo an actual antinatalist that doesn't seem to yell insults at me or think he's right by default because I disagree with him. Wow. Those are rare in ...

I reformulated it to: P1: Taking a course of action that results in more net suffering in the world than there would be without taking that course of ...

Yes as long as there are no repercussions (disclaimer: None of these are my actual opinions I'm playing devil's advocate). You tell me why it WOULDN'T...

Perhaps I should reformulate P1 as the following (sorry, I'm not actually an antinatalist just trying to play devil's advocate to get a good response)...

But you CAN know an action is bad if it causes ANY suffering where there could have been none and that's exactly what birth does. Now as for the rest ...

unjustified simply means "wouldn't have been experienced by that creature if you didn't cause it". So me punching you is unjustified suffering for exa...

according to you then there is no good support for ANY moral theory which I agree with except that that does not address the issue. I'm trying to find...

the only rebuttal I managed to come up with for antinatalism is: (copy pasted from Reddit) If giving birth is immoral how come eating is moral when: 1...

True but the only premise that argument relies on is that inflicting undue pain on others is morally incorrect

P1: One has no right to inflict undue suffering on another P2: Giving birth is equivalent to inflicting undue suffering on another as it results in th...

It's shown that while gun control will reduce mass shootings it won't reduce the number of murders so I say keep the guns because it doesn't protect a...

"these are not my actual opinions" is not a refutation. How would you reply to my last post. I'd like to hear your refutations

if it's so unsupported it should be pretty easy to refute

what say you about the children that are born with extreme disabilities and illnesses. You have no right to give birth when you know that by doing so ...

So I'll try to play devil's advocate in the comments just to see if I can get a really good response (these are not my actual opinions)

nihilism =/= I don't care Nihilism = no matter how much I care, all of my cares are subjective and not objectively correct.

I don't get why everyone keeps saying I defend nihilism. I am literally trying to get people to CHANGE my mind. I do not hold the belief "I know moral...

Oh lol sorry, didn't see ya reply there. Incorrect. Objective morality, as in, transcending subjectivity, becomes an empty concept but society specifi...

I've seen many many confused people use objective in the absolute sense which is why I made the post. An argument does not need to be persuasive to be...

Trust me. You'd be surprised at how many people disagree Also: I got reinforcements, hurray!!!!!

I'd say it is WAY more likely under atheism than under theism. If theism was true, why would God make an "objective beauty" that differs from person t...

Does this not sound like relativism to you? You have tied truth to a person's experiences. Now instead of having irreconcilable pivots, you have irrec...

Pivot: A premise taken to be true with no reliance on another premise for proof. Ex: God exists. Why? Just cuz I think such a separation is necessary ...

Good job someone finally picked this up. I actually also believe that a truly self evident premise is impossible because it needs the assumption that ...

Incorrect. I am claiming that going beyond the human experience is impossible and so anyone who claims to have experienced that "objective meaning" is...

I started this thread asking people to change my mind by doing exactly that, show me this "experience of objective reality". Since no one has found th...

I'm not using it to mean when people say objective in the science. I'm using it to mean when they use it in religion or ethics debates. In THOSE cases...

yes and what I'm saying is, there is no way to disagree with someone who lives "in another world" (you just admitted this) ergo relativism. Most peopl...

But facts are things? Thing is the most general word in the English language

But this is the meaning of objectivity as it is usually used. Ask a scientist about why particles interact in this way or that and he will say that "I...

My point is it is paradoxical to say someone has experienced objective reality because experience is always subjective. The Buddha could not have poss...