You never ever implied that people get reborn NOR that where they get reborn is dictated by their morality. Those are two MASSIVE speculations. Nothin...
So we have this principle here A that we use in literally every other situation but when the situation inconveniences you it’s suddenly a “rhetorical ...
it's similar to how driving laws prevent suffering from no one in particular but we still say they "prevent suffering". Benetar's assymmetry argument ...
I am aware of that argument but it doesn't address mine at all. The antinatalist has no problem with the ACT of giving birth but it's consequences. It...
my view is: The only way birth can be moral is if the parent is committed to doing assisted suicide to his child if he asks and can't do it himself. E...
it's not avoidance of potential suffering lol. It's preventing others from experiencing suffering for no reason. If anything most of the antinatalists...
No they WERE the reason you were born in THIS world. Had they not decided to have birth you could have been born into a world of immortal robots. They...
It seems that the post that was supposed to critique antinatalism has been taken over by antinatalists arguing FOR antinatalism. Not that that's a bad...
The antinatalist does not need to be pessimistic in the least. Your comment is attacking the antinatalist and not antinatalism which I find to be a mu...
I understand but that makes having children even MORE immoral. My parents were part of the cause I was born into this world where suffering is possibl...
How else do you propose someone do ethics then? Your own ethical rules result in a clear absurdity for me and that is "hiring a hitman is not wrong". ...
you seem to like calling whatever you don't understand non sense so let me clarify. In the previous situation with the kidnapping would you say it's s...
No youre not looking at the option fully. The situation above IS exactly that situation of doing something that only has a risk of harming others and ...
it's good, bad vs good, neutral. Clearly the more moral option is good, neutral especially considering the fact that it's someone else you're talking ...
Your metaphysical proposition just sounds like a deterministic external reality to me. It is external in the sense that my thoughts can’t change it an...
Kidnap: High chance of pleasure (good), Low chance of suffering (Bad) Don’t kidnap: No chance of pleasure (not bad), No chance of suffering (Good) So ...
it’s not moral to take that risk with someone else though if you don’t have to. Kidnapping even as you describe it would still be wrong because there ...
1- By objectively real I mean unalterable by my thoughts about it 2- It would mean that they are unalterable by me What you just proposed is essentail...
to address these as an antinatalist would: 1- I don’t get what you’re saying sorry 2- But you don’t have the right to take that risk with someone else...
not individually but being in a society (product of birth) greatly increases your survival chances as opposed to being out in the wild. It’s like how ...
The final output would be classical utilitarianism. Negative utlitarianism is the sum of suffering And yes I agree with you suffering is not independe...
If 2 people were starving on an island would one cannibalizing the other be morally wrong? I'm on the camp that says no. That person's evaluation of l...
because that's how negative utilitarianism works I already said what the difference was. Almost all of your actions ARE immoral according to this fram...
no I don't see how that follows No I don't that's why "essentially" is there. If we lived in some sort of paradise where no harm is possible then ever...
So you're saying that people get to pick and choose which exploitation to control? Because it sounds to me when you say "the only exploitation I can R...
I'm not saying it's akin to theft. Your argument was "if most people don't mind then it's okay" and I'm attacking that. That's what birth is. Imposing...
The AN does not need to believe in protecting an "unborn child" because such a thing does not exist. What the AN is trying to do is reduce suffering p...
I still disagree about the Hitman thing but I don't want to argue that in this thread It's not the parents fault in the same way that, say, offering t...
For a negative utilitarian all pleasure amounts to nothing and all suffering is excess suffering. Again, I ask for a response using negative utilitari...
No? Where did you get THAT from. The child isn't responsible for that exploitation he is exploited. But he is exploited in the same way you exploit pe...
You seem to have completely forgotten my disclaimer in the beginning especially seeing as you felt the unbearable urge to sully a civil discussion wit...
I don't understand what you're asking or how we even got to this point can we start over? P1: Causing unpleasant sensations on other creatures is mora...
you say that there are lots of people that die prematurely or suffer long term illnesses but it is a fact that there are way more people who get disfi...
first of all I'll point out again that these are not my view. I am playing devils advocate to get good responses. In the case you mentioned I WOULD te...
what's wrong with the argument: P1: Causing pain on other creatures is morally incorrect relative to how much pain is caused P2: Birth causes sever pa...
What I said was it reduces the total pain of humanity and that it definitely does. I obviously didn't mean it reduces the pain of unborn spirit childr...
as for your last comment. Why is ending all life absurd to you? You can't say the ideal situation of the guy you're debating is absurd or else there i...
even if I give it that not giving birth foes not prevent pain I can still make the argument that giving birth causes pain and that's all I need to jud...
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