I would say that giving an entity an entire PHYSICAL BODY and SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE out of knowhere without being asked is a pretty unusual modificati...
I think you truly have a misconception about what suicidal people go through. Suicide is nothing like "Damn life sucks lemme just go jump off a bridge...
Let me ask you something. Is it moral to genetically modify a baby to ensure it suffers as much as possible. Say, by giving it 8 limbs all of which ar...
Alright. I am saying that subjectively childbirth should be wrong for you because it checks all your criteria for a subjectively wrong action and the ...
Ok. Then nothing is wrong because I'm the only mind and you can't prove otherwise. What was all that talk about things being wrong when you're going t...
The fact that they have a working brain. Also it's scientific fact. How much pain is debatable though. It seems quite unreasonable to me to argue babi...
I have no idea what you mean by that. The child exists during childbirth. The child experiences pain during childbirth. Why is this different from any...
How about this one: Childbirth causes severe pain for both the child and the woman. I think we can both agree that the pain of childbirth is causally ...
Alright. So if I hire you to work as a sewage cleaner and make it so that in order to leave you have to cut your own wrists after going through extrem...
I am aware of this but you asked me PERSONALLY to peg every form of suffering on being born as if that is an argument for why it is unpeggable so I'm ...
The point of antinatalism isn't that any act that causes suffering is bad. It is that risking suffering on someone else without their consent is alway...
Do you mean force as in actual physical force? Are we talking pure physics here? Electromagnetic, Gravitaitonal, strong and weak nuclear? Then is lyin...
What exatly counts as a cause for you then. Because I count birth as a cause of suffering and you don't. That's the only real disagreement. Define wha...
No we KNOW he planted the bomb. But you do not know exacly how it works and that makes him innocent? Also I would say we CAN explain the causal chain ...
I cannot. Now explain to me chemically how bombs work. Because unless you do that the bomb planter is innocent apparently. Can you do that? If not jus...
Just because the causal chain is complicated doesn't change the fact that it ultimately started with birth. Birth caused subjective experiences to be ...
I did. Whatever caused the depressive thoughts was ultimately caused by being born. Oh X is not a real life event in that example, it's a neurological...
Yes. That causally peggable specific action is giving birth to them. The depressive thought happened because of X, X happened because of Y. Y ultimate...
Ok. When you have a child and he experiences pain. How is that different from the bomb situation. Let's compare analogies here. I'm comparing having a...
dude you literally ignored the rest of my comment and focused on the first paragraph. Forget the that and actually address my points please. We can ge...
No nonono. I was talking about the exruciating pain of humainty as it flies towards extinction be it due to heat death or more likely internal strife....
tbh idk what I was thinking when I wrote that. Is taking away a capacity for x painlessly bad? So is paralyzing someone painlessly without their conse...
They force them to have the capacity for suffering which I think is just as big a crime as causing the suffering yourself. I don't know why you can't ...
That it's immoral. Because in this case you're not just delaying it you're relaying the pain to someone else. Delaying is different. If there was an o...
Also just out of curiosity. Can you think of any example where an action that produces COMPARABLE amounts of pain and suffering is FORCED onto someone...
Also whether or not people benefit from others is not that important when determining whether to have more people. Just because I'd benefit or society...
Yes because having children is only delaying the inevitable. There will be a "final generation" of humans who will have to suffer from not having enou...
I agree with all of that but now it is a case of the lesser evil. The traffic control designers manufacturers, etc are aware that someone could get ru...
No. Because the light desingers and manufacturers did not intentionally cause this harm. While giving birth to someone is very intentional and done wi...
Ok so if a child is run over by a car and loses all functionality in his leg. There are two causes for his loss of functionality. First of all, the ca...
When a person walks into a situation that brings them ANY harm they are capable of granting or witholding consent. Therefore birth is immoral because ...
What if it was. What if someone set a bomb to exlode BEFORE a certain baby was born and set it to explode AFTER he was born. That's right of course by...
This implies a lot. Does it mean all matter is conscious (a notion I actually like personally)? Also what would explain the regularity we see in matte...
Alright. Explain this one then. Why did you say planting a bomb to explode later in a public park is wrong? It meets (a), because there is an intentio...
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