khaled

At this point you had used "materials" to refer to sperm and eggs on multiple occasions and so I decided to roll with it. You are aware genetic engine...

It is a partial cause. It shouldn't be ignored. If key A and key B opened the door to some sort of monster or something I would say turning key A is p...

Because that's not what I am saying. I am saying that birth is a direct cause to suffering. And yes I am saying a cause can optain without its effect ...

First off what's "block time" Secondly, I don't know why you're wasting so much energy on this but look at the comment that's putting you in such a ti...

Sorry that was a misunderstanding. The "I did" was a response to when you said "But I said nothing about sperm and eggs" "But I said nothing about spe...

No I did not 1- Sperm and eggs are living organisms not materials 2- You realize genetic modification is done on sperm and eggs right? Not on "the bab...

I'm not. I'm implying life is not worth starting because it contains harm in it. If I was blind I wouldn't kill myself but I'd rather not be blind Bei...

I did. Birth is modifying sperm and eggs so I'm not saying this: Because it's not materials that are in question, it's living things. And we both agre...

Sperm and eggs aren't living things?

Of course it makes sense: If you are presented with the option to pick between A, B, C and D and you pick C using your free will, you were caused to p...

I did. And so did you. You said genetically modifying babies to suffer is bad. Genetic modification and birth are both things you do to organic materi...

Putting people in a tolerable situation isn't automatically morally ok. If someone breaks my leg, it will heal in a while. That doesn't mean breaking ...

That is irrelevant. All I need for my claim is that suffering is inevitable at some point. Free will or not is irrelavent. It's either: Person A was b...

No that is not the question at all. The question "when is living OK" is very different from the question "When is it ok to impose living on someone el...

you literally contradicted yourself in the same sentence.....

This is inconsequential to the argument. "Let's see how much torture he can stand before it counts as doing something bad". It doesn't matter whether ...

Most are "pro death". Which means you should need a reason NOT to abort not a reason to abort. Abortion should be the default not birth.

Uhhhhh. Ok. How about: falling off a bike and breaking your leg. That was partially caused by you being born in the first place. Was it not?

Any harm you can think of can be causally linked to being born. In the same way that the specific harm of having 8 broken limbs can be linked to the g...

I would say you are a partial cause for having them in the first place. "I tried my best but the world sucks bucko" doesn't relieve you of responsibil...

That entity may not exist but there is another entity there that will grow to be that entity. The person might not exist but the fetus does. And I'm s...

There is no way to convince someone who believes social norms are the basis for what makes actions against non consenting entities (that will become c...

Alright then we're done here. There is nothing I can do to convince you. You have shown that for some bizzare reason you think that whatever the socia...

And I doubt that's actually how you feel about it. To illustrate: Is circumcision ethical? Beware that it is scientific fact that circumcision provide...

I am not looking for a fact, just more sharply defined subjective reasons. For me "unusual" isn't bad but "harmful" is. Let's look at some examples to...

Now: Why exactly is genetically modifying a baby to have 8 broken limbs on birth bad? And don't say "because it's unusual" I am asking why unusual is ...

Ok. I am not tyring to argue antinatalism is objectively good or bad. I am trying to argue that it is bad according to the subjective values you set h...

Ok let's take this slowly then. Why exactly is genetically modifying a baby to have 8 broken limbs on birth bad? And don't say "because it's unusual" ...

Ohhhhhh. So your argument against antinatalism is "It's ok because it's a social norm, even though it causes harm in the same way genetically modifyin...

hi

Please tell me what unusual was referring to. Also please actually respond to my points not literally a single line. The literal entire post was detai...

Yes. This is the suffering I was referring to when I said "They go through severe suffering". I wasn't talking about the act of commiting suicide itse...

I have to go NOW though so I'm just gonna leave this here So the reason why birth should be immoral is: (a) always applies. There always will be a sub...

I feel we've agreed on something lol

I wish I could "set checkpoint" here

Agreed with you on that one

Yes I mean giving birth

In other words would you say that the act of having a child causes the creatiion of an entity that will likely survive as a consent capable being?

Ok. Do we agree that (a) we have an entity that will likely survive as a consent-capable being Applies to the act of having a child

So if I genetically alter said fetus to have 8 limbs and I know it will suffer severely I have to abort it? morally speaking

So it is wrong. Positive?

Just ignore everything and answer that for now because I have to go soon: Is it or is it not ok to genetically modify a baby so that it is born with 8...

Ok I'm consfused now. Is it or is it not ok to genetically modify a baby so that it is born with 8 broken limbs and suffers severely for the rest of i...

The point in time at which the issue occurs is after the baby is born with 8 limbs however that doesn't mean genetically modifying it to give it 8 lim...

Sure. As long as that doesn't translate to "So you agree it isn't an issue which makes it ok"

That it is a problem to make things sentient? Yes that's the whole point of antinatalism. If I somehow make a rock sentient and capable of suffering t...

The problem of the suffering baby with 8 broken limbs doesn't arise before sentience either

What? What is "this"

The problem is if I somehow made the mole sentient

Obviously not the mole isn't conscious