schopenhauer1

I'm not sure I'm saying this. Rather, the economic/political/social conditions will de facto stay the same with various upgrades for each generation a...

The inertia is a large part of the compliance. People tend not to do more than they need to. The path of least resistance is literally and figurativel...

Fair point. This is part of many people's criticism of having children. No participation. The conditions of life are something that cannot be negotiat...

Well, really any ethical system or how to live the good life, I would put under this scrutiny. Do people need to be born to live out X system. Of cour...

Right, but why does someone need to exist in the first place to develop capacities? In other words, should people be born to develop capacities over n...

But this is relative to another type of life. Perhaps there is an argument for a better life in relation to another, but the question was why does som...

What happens when life is full and flourishing? Do people get a thumbs up on their gravestone? Why does someone need to live a full life in the first ...

But why would capabilities be their own end without something like happiness adjoined with it? Robots also have capabilities.

I'll take that as you dont want to address the issue. Taking another argument..if a tortured man prefers non existence are they just committing a para...

Why not address my argument rather than the first sentence out of context? It did refute your claim or at least show your claim doesn't apply.

I don't see it as a paradox. There is a state of affairs whereby no bad will befall a new person and no good will be deprived of any actual person as ...

That is great for Craig Coombs. I commend him on "staring the void down with his arse" :lol: . I think my response in another thread works just as wel...

It's targeted at those who think by being wrapped up in complexity, they are doing something greater. It's like Shakespeare's quote about an idiot on ...

In other words, the minutia to the minutia mongerer may seem more of signifier of "something" that is not there. Just more minutia to focus on.

Granted. In the light of suffering, it doesn't provide a reason to bring more people into the world in and of itself. No X value does. A further conse...

Yes meaning here I guess is tricky- but I'm using it to mean something that is valuable. Some people that understanding the complexity of a subject mu...

Let me add.. even having a common framework of values, would still be debated on a granular level, still giving the CI problems in everyday situations...

Yes, or a general axiology/value theory. It would revolve around the values themselves. I refer back to the Nussbaum thread, for example. Even though ...

Granted, but if you were to be interested in arguing the point, I would ask for a justification that puts experiencing a list of human activities is m...

Yes, but remember I am actually critiquing this argument of meaning in complexity, technology, and science.

I'd like to add something to this argument. Not only is it that we think that there is some extra meaning in the fact that we get esteem from understa...

I'm using it in a specific way, qualifying it with the concept of radical freedom. That is to say, the choices of what we do are of any range of thing...

This list of capabilities implies that this is something that people should be born to do. If suffering is a part of life, why bring more life into th...

Yes, in that case the CI really has little to do with the actual morality itself, and certainly cannot be said to be a grounding for it. If anything, ...

:up: In a roundabout way, this has to do with pessimism. Pessimism posits that the world has an inherently negative value due to structural and contin...

Okay, so this is my point. Morality is then not really to do with the CI but something else beyond it, or prior to it. You seem to be positing either ...

:joke:

So the thief who revels in a society of treachery, and the oathbreaker who wants a world of untrustworthiness...

It's more about good or bad about what a society should do and the relations of people in that society. That is an assumption inherent in the ideas of...

Yes, I agree, but thread was about how mongering minutia about a subject matter doesn't make life more meaningful because we have "mined" this informa...

This really is very murky.. "human society".. "common ability to reason".. Not everyone has, does, or will come up with a same common reasoning about ...

There's several problems here. First, again is that it reduces to a hypothetical: "If you want to live in a world where property is honored for daily ...

Right, so the theory itself rests on the value/emotional weight put on property itself. There is something beyond the contradiction that is added. The...

I don't see why there couldn't be something that shakes out in some universal violation.. "If everyone didn't allow for exceptions for emotional griev...

My main position regarding life in general and antinatalism as a response to the conditions of life, are outlined here, more-or-less: https://thephilo...

So keep in mind this idea of using as a means is regarding suffering and foisting challenges. By the act of procreating a new person, you are disregar...

Besides the fact that you are waving off the fact that there many subtle and not so subtle harmful, negative states, I am indeed saying that the de fa...

The universe does not get anything or not get anything by what humans do or feel.If so, the universe itself would be using people for a game of net go...

In a sense, there is no person for there to be an end for yet, so it is always for the parent, prior to birth. Going a bit beyond Kant, I just call th...

No, it is not the relationship I am comparing, Dingo. Rather, it is the circumstances of being foisted challenges and suffering for someone else's end...

Right, this is why I used the example of the slave being subjectively happy with his situation. This does not negate the slave-owner putting him into ...

Correct. I don't think it is a possibility for humans to be happy, as suffering is structural to life. There would still be want and need. However, th...

Hold your horses there, DingoJones. I was going to up the stakes in a bit, and going somewhere with it, but I wanted to establish something first with...

It's hard to tell who is wise, other than it makes sense to you perhaps. But if you say because they were right about consequences, that would negate ...

Good summary there. My problem with the CI is not about certain, easy-to-see contradictions. Rather, it is when it gets to more everyday interactions ...

Here is something for you, and I'm going to keep this very broad for a reason- what is Schopenhauer's conception of Will to you and to Witty (or how y...

Yes, I never stated nor believe Wittgenstein's whole project should be discounted. I think clarifying concepts is important in philosophy, and Witty u...

Let me edit what I said above.. If let's say, there WAS a contradiction..something like "If everyone were mean, civility itself would not exist".. wou...

Fair enough, but I guess there is a reason he calls it "practical reason".. But is it practical? If he gives you a standard, but the standard is incom...

Rules or rulers? Ha. That's the problem, anything can be universalized and in a way justified or not justified. "If every student who lied should be h...