schopenhauer1

So it is THIS mindset you speak which I think to be an exemplar of the root of the ethical dilemma AN brings up, at least in the deontological sense. ...

Natality isn't. I said to use whatever term you want for it.

The operative word is "forced" here. That is exactly my point. Antinatalism's main gripes revolve around causing others unnecessary suffering and the ...

Cool. Again, I don’t care what term is used here. I’m aware of natalism as a population ethic term.

I already said you can use what term you’d like.

I mean that at the end of the day antinatalists don’t force a way of life unto others. Natalists (or whatever term you’d like to use for it), de facto...

Use whatever word you want for wanting others to live out X way of life. Pro-birth, procreationists, etc.

Anyone birthed.

You would have a point if natalism and antinatalism were symmetrical- but they’re not. Antinatalism at the end of the day is an ethic/philosophy that ...

It depends. For example, procreation imposes life onto someone else, making it an act of force. In this sense, it can be viewed as a self-righteous at...

Just my thoughts on the above video language discussion on the word "better". The question was basically, "Who is it "better" for not to exist, if "th...

I thought this was a thoughtful, respectful, conversation with two more-or-less differing views on antinatalism. It's weird to listen to a debate with...

:smirk: Yes indeed, @"apokrisis"' philosophy is indeed a totalizing one, perhaps to a fault. But I do value his attempt to order the world in such a w...

Indeed, I think in any of these conversations, we have to think of a god that is not "having a hand in creation" so much as "the ground of being" for ...

Ok, it looks like you are indeed discussing the "God of the philosophers" rather than the theological/Abrahamic variety and the baggage therewith. So ...

You're parroting a watered-down, feel-good version of stoicism and absurdism, dressing it up as "reasonable indifference," when it's nothing more than...

@"wonderer1" @"180 Proof" If the perpetuation of an unjust system is seen as problematic, then a collective understanding of the situation, would make...

I'm not sure why it isn't consistent. As I answered here:

Ok :up:

You should know!

The suffering wouldn’t be from being isolated, but rather it would be discussed communally without being gaslit, distracted from it, or ignoring it, f...

The word used was "encourages" not demands or implores. Rather, if one is feeling isolated, lonely, and the only one suffering, it may be best to comm...

I hate to bring in Wittgenstein here, but some of his ideas can be useful in these debates. That is to say, you must try to not mix "language games" o...

It all comes down to "why do anything?". Once you go through the dialectic, it leads to questioning procreation and survival. And rightfully, it quest...

Actually we seem to agree on this, though you would be hard put to say so because you seem like discord over agreement in your posts, and you seek it ...

Yes, of course. Antinatalists believe that procreation is an injustice the one born. Someone might ask, "Why talk so much about such an unpopular opin...

Ironically, you make the case for why one who sees the injustice of procreation would be so vocally against it.

Creating a false narrative cannot solve the problem of suffering. We must first recognize and understand the inherent suffering at the core of life be...

@"Tom Storm" Masking the reality with heroism is yet another coping mechanism. Nietzsche's performative resilience is existential gaslighting and a di...

I like that "get" here can be taken two ways: 1) They don't "get" to have these distractions. 2) They don't "get" that these are just distractions. If...

See here:

There seems to be an aspect of control in this no? You want to control and direct a cohort and see the drama play out for your amusement. At the end o...

If you're worried about causing the death of a child, it is not. Don't start what ends in death. It's just taking your logic and applying it equally t...

**Good timeline, but it was the move to make the code of ethics attributed directly from a singular God of the Universe, who wants humans to act a cer...

:up: Once people are educated, they generally have fewer or no children. The education just doesn't go far enough. When it becomes a moral issue and l...

Technically procreating babies will eventually lead to their death, so since we KNOW this... So apparently when you PRESS/FORCE people into this syste...

Clearly the collective efforts of procreation, government formation, and economic activity has all contributed to the 'YES MORE OF THIS!" side of the ...

That's the GAME then.. training, learning, etc. It doesn't have to look like Chess or Monopoly or Basketball! It's an obstacle course of choosing betw...

Why should humans care how much BALANCE of suffering occurs in the universe, when it is him/her that is being subjected to suffering in various amount...

You just contradicted yourself. It doesn't matter what the outcome is. So here we have the following: 1) A perfect god wouldn't have needs 2) A good g...

All we have to admit then is that THIS god you describe, the one Just-Centric god that rules this universe is not perfect. Our disagreement comes from...

I find this similar to an OP I had a little while back. You may have commented on it actually: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/14936/page/p1

Interesting. I believe this all takes place in a certain setting we call society, no? Seems people (by default) have influence over you by default.

We can prevent it for others though, and follow the Pessimistic framework I laid out. That is to say, the default is that we should all by into the co...

The whole point is why would a perfect god create this kind of game of hide-and-seek of his "blessedness" and "good and evil"? But this is quite evasi...

The broader framework for that discussion was, "Is THIS universe worth continuing if it doesn't meet those type of perfected/utopian standards?". Of c...

The juxtaposition of the multiverse versus the limited universe of the ancient Near East is amusing.

The whole point is why would a perfect god create this kind of game of hide-and-seek of his "blessedness" and "good and evil"? It doesn't matter if th...

This is a fun theology (not for Jesus I guess). Good fanfiction if you will (they are all varieties of fanfiction of course). But what does it even me...

In Schop's conception, the animal being's (human/animal condition if you will) essential nature is to suffer dissatisfaction. Thus, a "utopia" would b...