schopenhauer1

No, not that either. My remark about utility-producers is more towards philosophical arguments like the one Khaled seems to propose which is that the ...

Same response. Do you think conditionals exist? "Could" something happen that did not? Harm was prevented which was good. Good was prevented, but how ...

Haha, I do like your use of "negotiations" there :). But another thing people seem to think is that I am trying to personalize this. I don't go around...

Then see "non-trivial". Next. I guess when we are arguing, yes. Not sure what you mean. No one exists yet to need amelioration. You are actually makin...

See above... Those are Ameliorations.. The child is already born and would be a dereliction of duty as a parent to not prevent greater harm.

I think that is not charitable that everything I've written boils down to the consent argument. Agreement is actually one I don't use too often. Rathe...

I don't necessarily agree with all of Bartriks' line of arguments there, but on this one I can see the validity. If there cannot be consent, you have ...

I don't see how that is a good characterization. Why is it "silly"? See all my recent threads.

Same response as to James Riley.

Right but this just has all the problems with hard determinism. On a meta-level there it is all mapped out and you cannot change the situation, but on...

Well-stated, on the state, of no option status.

So this had to do with the idea that we have no option for "no option" when it comes to being born. Is it just to procreate with this in mind? One can...

Well, at least I don't hear anything about echo chambers so I think I made my point on how it isn't/wasn't for my threads.. so still suspicious for yo...

That is an excellent point.

That's why I said there will be no one. There will be a state of affairs where no person exists, where there could have been the counterfactual case t...

But you were the one who mentioned being annoyed that I start these threads. And yet you continue to engage in argument with me, despite this. Sometim...

Added a bit to the previous post.

Hi Antinatalist, as you may already know, I like your arguments.. Things that I have to add here: 1) Unnecessary, and unwanted harmful impositions are...

Also, now that I think about it, why would a case so clearly unharmful even be considered as in the same category as imposing harms? How is this not u...

Same goes to you buddy. Why are you debating me so much? You feel your life's mission is to put me in my place on this forum for some reason? If my de...

So why should anyone debate anything that they care about? You think this is about debating specifically YOU. Most debates last for a certain amount o...

Added some more information in the last post.

How "hardcore" do you want me to be? I think that's the problem with people like "hardcore" anything.. People don't know when to stop when everyone's ...

Absolutely, that is discourse, dialectic, debate, etc. I think I do, thank you very much. But as far as telling people "Y'all shouldn't have kids", th...

That's my point! How is that arguing against what I'm saying?? Procreation is wrong, ergo don't procreate. The point is when people think there is som...

There's a lot of things that are not "provable".. Are conservatives or liberals "right"? Why should politicians care to convince people? There is no "...

There is no way to "prove" this. What you think is proof, isn't for someone else. Similar to what you accuse me, of course I can't say anything that s...

I'm not a moderator, but I don't see why not. I'd be interested.

We've been through this. The caveat was large impositions, like the ones life "itself" imposes. Didn't think I had to put that caveat by now as we hav...

Again, does life have burdens and inconveniences for people? Is this something that someone would otherwise not want? Then it was indeed a burden, and...

Again, someone's day can be Negative, Negative, Negative ... Report = Good day or at least, "not bad". But it was clearly negative while living throug...

Things to consider: 1.) The duration and the kinds of experiences matter here. Duration means there's a lot more experiences, which means memory can c...

Here comes negentropy posts!

I have seen it both future and past. I can agree about the brain constructing things. That idea actually favors my argument though. There is no "one" ...

My main point here is that OB can obtain in a surprise party, but it wouldn't be a surprise to me if the actual experience matches the report because ...

@"darthbarracuda" So the only mitigation here is that amelioration of a greater harm with a lesser harm. A child getting a vaccination, for example. S...

So my deeper argument here is the claim of instinctual. I guess, what counts as "instinct"? The thought, "I want a baby because X" doesn't seem like a...

Don't have time. Consolidate your thoughts please, and I will reply. Take the main arguments put them in a condensed paragraph. Every statement doesn'...

I was agreeing with you that a surprise party is generally considered a good experience. So in this case (generally), the lived experience matches the...

No, what I am saying that because a surprise party is one defined event, and not a course of day, a week, a month, a year, a decade, a lifetime, it ca...

Not necessarily. Just the risk it leads to birth which is reasonably manageable for many people.

I guess my response is the same as to darth's here: So not sure what Biology 101 would have to do with procreating other than accidents which can be h...

So the point is with birth, there can never be an option to opt-out. Is this just?

What is "It's" here?

No, not at all. 1) The same may apply.. People can report one thing and experience another, but the main reason is 2) A surprise party lasts a certain...

A lot of this debate will fall on this. I am not sure I would classify it as an imposition if people like it. Presumably there are aspects of life whi...

I can maybe agree with that. What is your own justification for that? What I don't get is wanting a child is a discursive, deliberative thought. It is...

If a magician can snap his fingers and bring a person into a situation that they would not want, knowing the outcome will be a future person in harmfu...

So going back to the extent argument, "bad enough" for surprise parties is similar to "bad enough" for birth? Also, with all the other things I explai...

Well I might be rethinking it and think there's a case for both kind and extent. It's just that I was accepting things like "surprise parties" as impo...