Terrapin Station

That would have to be some freaky physics.

Well, because they'd not be silent, yeah.

As I pointed out in another recent thread about this, God could have given us free will while still making it the case that one is not free to choose ...

I don't know if he's confused, but some combo of delusional, trolling, irrationally stubborn, etc. might be the case.

The exception would be the report itself. That can't exist prior to the report. It would work for everything else, I suppose, since in order to make a...

So given that you don't want to deny an identity, you agree.

You realize that if you deny that "if Joe thinks it's morally permissible to rape Jane, then to Joe, it's morally permissible to rape Jane," you're de...

So if Joe thinks it's morally permissible to rape Jane, then to Joe it's not morally permissible to rape Jane? That's what you're claiming?

(1) You're ignoring the question I'm asking you: If Joe thinks it's morally permissible to rape Jane, then is it not the case that, to Joe, it's moral...

If Joe thinks it's morally permissible to rape Jane, then is it not the case that, to Joe, it's morally permissible to rape Jane?

I'd just say it's "based on" speech not being anything, or being able to do anything (like force things) that I have any moral objection to.

It's laughable that speech could force actions? I'd agree with that. Or you think it's laughable to only ban speech that would force actions?

Yeah, but I made it explicit in many different ways that I'd only be concerned with force.

Meta criticism drives me crazy, too. ;-) (Critical discussion about discussion preferences)

It seems to me that we either see all argumentation as resting on truth tables for the operators/connectives we've defined, in which case stuff like m...

Right. So I'd never have any legislation against influence of any sort. So that's part of why I'd not ban any speech. The only way I'd ever ban any sp...

Okay . . . I get really tired about talking about the same stuff all the time, though. So I try to focus on angles that aren't something we've beaten ...

I'm going by what businesses believe advertising can do, which I've seen many times from many different angles, including that my wife constantly deal...

Influence is different than force. I only have moral issues with force. I thought I explained all of that numerous times, in a bunch of different ways...

At least you're not overestimating the power of your speech there.

Yeah, again, if you follow the conversation, NOS4A2 stated that the power of speech is overestimated. unenlightened said that it's not in the case of ...

NOS4A2 stated that the power of speech is overestimated. unenlightened said that it's not in the case of advertising. But it is.

Not at all. Again, it couldn't be clearer that morality only occurs as mental states that individuals have. All the evidence we have show that that is...

But the point that I was making was that the effectiveness of advertising is overestimated.

Yes, a ton of money is wasted on advertising, and there are plenty of studies showing that it's not near as effective as is commonly believed in the b...

What's the point it misses?

The overestimation is that advertising is going to be effective, because of a belief that it strongly influences consumer decisions.

If we're going to call actions that preceded actions that were performed because someone decided to perform them "causal" as well as calling actions t...

Okay, but then you're denying that people can be hungry, for example, without having an "unpleasant" phenomenal assessment of it. Is that right?

And illustrates the overestimation very well. If that weren't the case, no one would ever go out of business. They'd merely need to advertise and they...

What would be patently absurd is to say that their words are what altered the world. Non-speech actions alter the world, and we need to look at the ca...

Sure. And on the big picture, the uniform principle has it that lacking or desiring things is bad regardless of how anyone feels about it because?

Nothing in that explains why, when an individual has no issues with those things, they're still a moral problem nevertheless. I keep asking that, and ...

Okay, but presumably you agree with him. So WHY do you feel it's wrong? (If why you feel it's wrong is identical to why Schopenhauer feels it's wrong ...

One thing weird about the "systematic" view schopenhauer is endorsing is that it implies that the preferred state would be to just sit like a lump and...

This is all stemming from schopenhauer saying that the view hinges on "systematic suffering," where that doesn't need to take into account any conting...

Right, I understand that that's the view. What I'm asking is WHY that's the view. What would be the motivation for having that view? Why do we have to...

I know you're saying this. So you do not need to repeat it. What I'm saying is that it makes no sense to me that you'd be saying that something is mor...

Well, one is about human nature, too, unless you think we're somehow "outside of physics." But if you want to stick to human nature, we can use our au...

I'm more like this (but not bald): https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7WTCbgKmGyt03W9y/giphy.gif

I had moths do that once. Delete threads.

I know you got sidetracked, but I was interested in your response to this: "Wouldn't, say, physics fit that description--something structural, it's no...

I was thinking more along the lines of this: https://media.giphy.com/media/zXNVOenB0NVza/giphy.gif

"What has philosophy taught you?" That people believe a lot of weird shit, but it's entertaining at that.

At least you're not engaging in the "ego-fest."

haha, yeah, that too.

It's a modus ponens (If P then Q. P. Therefore Q.) That's what you always use. If we're allowed to examine the semantics of the premises, then let's g...

The basis is how individuals reason. Not everyone reasons the same way. Re definitions of morality, I've relayed mine many times here: Morality is how...

Wouldn't, say, physics fit that description--something structural, it's not reflected upon, but it runs our lives. So would you say that physics is mo...

One can construct a modus ponens argument in about two seconds to support any arbitrary thing, by the way. One could also construct a valid argument i...