Terrapin Station

Okay, but we can't avoid that with Benatar's "asymmetry.". "Pangs of compassionate sadness for the aliens not born to experience pleasure," to have an...

I agree with that, but I don't think it implies that meaning would exist if we didn't, any more than emotions, desires, etc. would exist if we didn't....

Do you think those people are literally saying that they existed prior to being "brought into the world to be turned into meat"? I don't think that wo...

In the cases like you're describing, I'd just say that the person is confused. Knowing something and how we know it is often not the same thing as wha...

Hmm . . . with the people I say this to, I actually want to know how they are. I just figure that if they don't detail anything, they're par for their...

I'm a metaphysical realist in general, but I believe that some things, like emotions, desires, thoughts, etc. are only mental phenomena. That's not gi...

Because most people think it's ridiculous to even talk about "persons who don't exist" as if they do.

For me, it's difficult to separate epistemology from ontology. If I'm going to ask myself, "How do we know that 'dog' still means something if no peop...

The problem with this for S's view is that S claims that meaning would exist if no people existed.

I don't remember what your hypothetical scenario is (I'm guessing that it's just something about meaning when no people exist). Why is insisting that ...

The goals are bogus anyway. No one is required to like anyone else or what they do, and no one is required to respect anyone else. If you want respect...

What problems do you think crop up if "dog" doesn't mean something objectively?

I'm trying to imagine anything that could persuade me to believe that notions of objective, persistent, abstract existents aren't simply examples of a...

I can tell you where Tuesday is. (Although by this point, you should be able to successfully guess my answer without me having to provide it.)

As I explained above, S apparently believes that a "christening of meaning" (at least per communal usage) makes some sort of objective, persistent abs...

What are you really measuring with those devices? For example, doesn't a traditional clock really measure the motion of its gears? Doesn't a sundial r...

There wasn't an epoch in which there were real abstracts or in which properties were somehow separable from substance, etc. It's maybe understandable ...

How would there be a property that's not empirically measurable (whether it's been measured yet or not)?

It's okay if your answer is that we can't point at meanings contra expressions of meanings, but if so, that's one important difference between meaning...

Meanings? Wouldn't that answer be kind of uninformative?

At what things?

Theyd have properties, right? What is it with there being so many Aristotelians on this board? Both "prime matter" and "substantial form" are nonsense...

I wasn't trying to "score a point." And if folks have in mind that it has to be something more than a mere correlation, why wouldn't they just say, "Y...

This is why I stressed that you were reading something into my comment that I wasn't saying. All I said was that I'd say that meaning requires somethi...

If we're adding "logically relevant" to "correlation," then it's something other than a mere correlation, no?

So, as I asked, what part of the second-to-last post of mine did you disagree with? Are you saying there's not a correlation in dictionaries between t...

If you agree with all of that, the point is simply that correlation isn't sufficient for meaning, because otherwise you'd have to say that the meaning...

I thought that everything above this was a way of saying that you can't point at meaning, but your last sentence says otherwise. So what would we poin...

Some appearances are not of experiences per se. In other words, not everything appears as "this is an experience I'm having." Some appearances are sim...

Right. But in context, what does that have to do with anything?

Do you dislike novels/fiction, too? Also, I'm curious whether you like any forms of art or entertainment.

I'm not sure I understand either of those comments in context.

Exactly, but S apparently believes that a "christening of meaning" (at least per communal usage) makes some sort of objective, persistent abstract exi...

The point is that to say this, I have to be doing something theoretical.

That's fine, but if so, and definitions in dictionaries, utterances about meaning, etc. are expressions of meaning and not the same as meaning,* is it...

I don't know why you're not understanding what I'm typing. I think it's because you're reading too much into it. Empty your mind for a moment, and jus...

In order to say that everything that appears is "of my experience," I have to do something theoretical. Phenomenally, many things are not of my experi...

Which is the same problem as what? (Seriously, I have no idea what the comparison would be to there)

You're reading way too much into my comments about this part. Again, I was simply saying why a mere correlation isn't sufficient.

If they exist, then empirical evidence would be available for them--even if we haven't discovered it yet. At any rate, what would you take to be an ex...

The bulk of metaphysics is ontology. It's a mistake to expect empirical evidence of existents?

That wasn't what I was focusing on yet for this tangent. The point was simply to suggest that a mere correlation isn't sufficient. There needs to be a...

I don't expect anyone to ever admit it online, but I think that it's possible to get through to some people via patience/persistence-via-trying variou...

For meaning to occur. ? No. I'm saying that there's a correlation in dictionaries, for example, between the definition of a term and the term that fol...

I thought that would be clear from what I wrote. It needs to be a direct connection and not just a correlation to do the work that we want done, becau...

Again, it's as if you can not understand what I write for some reason. I didn't say anything about rigidity. I simply said that conventionally, "nonco...

"Nonconsensual" conventionally has a connotation that something is against someone's consent. Otherwise, how do you distinguish between an action invo...

It's frustrating because it seems like you're not at all understanding what I'm writing, but I don't know why. Someone needs to be existent and to be ...

First off, someone having a preference to x doesn't imply that they've experienced x yet.

Exactly.