Couldn’t you just as easily say “I would never sit still on that trolley, no matter how many people I would save by doing so. Killing an innocent pers...
The only world where freedom is possible (but not always actual) is in the mind. Aside from the mind, everything is determined. And the mind itself ca...
Have you known anyone who could describe a coherent picture of a society of people where there is no ownership? I haven’t seen it on this thread for i...
I posted a bit earlier in in the thread, then noticed recently it was up to 23 plus pages so I was curious if everyone had gotten to the bottom of the...
Then stop talking about at two minutes or after two minutes. That’s some other scenario. Don’t you see that? Two minutes or more is outside the univer...
And that’s precisely why the question of whether the lamp will be on or off at two minutes will never present itself. If you want to talk about how la...
How is that? How is it on or off at or after two minutes? It cannot be a function of a switch that operates by switching every half of the prior inter...
So what are we disagreeing about? Whether this is paradox, or whether there is an answer to question 3? I don’t think there is an answer to question 3...
Exactly the point I am trying to make. The moral questions in the trolley problem are more about the trolley builder, the trolley driver who abandoned...
No, that’s a different equation. That switch is more easily predicted. The switch on Thompson’s lamp requires some serious calculation to determine it...
Haha! Ok, so the switch clicks at 1 minute, then it clicks again at 30 seconds more, then it clicks again at 15 seconds more, then again at 7.5 second...
I don’t understand. How do you ever arrive at the two minute mark? 1 minute, half a minute later, quarter minute later than that, etc., infinitely…you...
Not helping a kid floating face down can easily be wrong morally/objectively, even if they have to get soaked. That’s not comparable to being given in...
That’s not what I am saying about omission. I am saying there must be an affirmative duty prior to there being an intentional omission of acting on th...
Exactly. So ethics arises not in the practical facts, but in the intentions behind them. So you are saying the scenario is asking us whether, in these...
It just does a poor job of highlighting the omission. So the other guy on the trolley who is just sitting there unaware of anything, omitting to do an...
It’s not an omission if you intend to kill five people. It’s how you carry out your intention. It’s a physical act to stay seated in order to kill fiv...
If I had a duty to save the most people when riding a trolley that had no proper conductor, than sitting still would be an immoral act of omission. Bu...
No it’s not. What if in this situation I want to kill five people? My choice is killing five people. How do I actively effect that choice - by activel...
Not self image. Just trying to locate where the moral question really is, where the moral issue really arises. The moral question is why does ANYONE h...
Could caring instead, or also, be the most immanent, most intimate expression of the one who is being religious (or just being)? The place where inste...
I may have gotten ahead of myself a bit. So we distinguished between the choices (1 or 5, good or bad) and the consent (I pull the lever, or I stay se...
That’s why I think it would take courage to do the truly moral thing on the trolley and not participate at all. I guess fear is a kind of force that m...
I agree with that, and that it highlights the difference between the choice “to save lives” and the consent to make that choice, by pulling the lever....
I did address that above but probably badly. But I’ll do better. Sometimes when you are driving you take your foot off the gas, maybe down a small hil...
I don’t know about exempting, so it’s a good question, but force certainly creates a distance for responsibility to cover. Maybe I did over simplify. ...
Exactly. There is no paradox caused by an infinite staircase, because an infinite staircase is a square circle, barely conceivable if conceivable at a...
The heart of the trolley problem is this: “Without any context or explanation, if you were forced to kill either 1 person or 5 people with no other op...
Modeling is not physical, so the models built with infinity will never pose a problem when descending stairs. There is no paradox because the paradox ...
Kill 1 or kill 5. In this scenario, I choose whether the trolly stays left and kills 5 or goes right and kills one. I have the same control in my choi...
Is was just told not to add anything by Philosophim. So the trolley driver thought that the single person was the son of his neighbor and he hates his...
Completely agree. That’s what makes these thought experiments of such limited value. It’s an unreal scenario and doesn’t factor in intent, which is es...
Morality has to do with intent. So is the variable here inaction of watching people die, or affirmative action pulling the lever to kill one of them? ...
All of the variables and so many more facts are important to understand before we can judge morality from this. Did I just wake up and find myself at ...
I’m just saying the notion of an infinite staircase is impossible to conceive as steps and groups of steps are unitary wholes, and infinity never unif...
Exactly! You have to take the thing you call a “half” as a single whole unit before you can take some measure again. A half is just a measure conceive...
A single thing that can be grabbed is defined as you say as a unit. A single thing. Like one whole step. So now we have conceived of the unit. We’ve d...
The distance between your eyes is a whole. You need to grab that finite whole thing first from the physical world to then posit the concept of half of...
The rest periods at step 1, instead of being 30 seconds long, is that really just 2 times as long of rest than at step 2? Or is it 4 times as long as ...
Trying. Good example. That’s a realistic conception of communism. No ownership, the theory or imagination, applicable in reality. I agree, the real li...
Why did you quote me? I am physically trying to imagine a society of people where there is no concept of ownership. The best I can do is imagine a soc...
Physical individuation. In humans becomes identity formation. Which becomes a “mine” by the time anyone can speak. Maybe. I think we have to resist an...
This means, we live in a world drenched and submerged in the concept and practice of ownership. From here, soaking wet, we have to imagine a possible ...
Got it. So if everything is pooled and shared, how is that an example of no one owns anything? What happens to things after they are pooled and shared...
Isn’t the idea of communal ownership a counter to individual ownership? It’s not a counter to ownership. If everything is pooled and shared, ownership...
Just as long as you don’t hope to see it, because hope is more of a religious thing. But yes, any day now. Nuclear holocaust, rogue AI, weaponized vir...
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