flannel jesus

This part This part I don't feel like going through everything. Most of it. But I'm trying to simplify the conservation, because I realise that we'll ...

we're doomed to talk past each other endlessly as long as we disagree on the determinism/randomness dichotomy.

Just say something interesting about it and your conversation partner will appear.

You aren't the first person to get the impression that this is somehow an argument for determinism. It isn't. The conclusion of the article isn't "det...

I think you're confused about what rewinding the clock is about. Nobody is saying "you will necessarily go for that run". In fact we're explictly allo...

I'm not sure what that means. We take note of all causally relevant facts at T1, including all facts about the physical world as well as their motives...

I'm going to break it down for you. Right or wrong, this is my reasoning: 1. A causally closed system either evolves towards the future deterministica...

Yeah free will conversations are mostly like that it seems. One of the primary factors that creates the conditions for talking past each other is disa...

I don't know what you're confused about. I never said you're a compatibilist. Pull yourself together man.

my idea of free will is not incompatible with the possibility that the universe is fully deterministic and they everything is causally inevitable. I d...

then don't discuss it

that's right, it's determinism and free will. Those are the two compatible things.

5 points for the first person who can explain why "x is compatible with y" is not synonymous with "x requires y"

you still haven't figured out what compatible means

patterners example was about determinism. If you're just asking about determinism, I think you know my answer. If you don't, can you reword your quest...

I'm agnostic about determinism. I lean slightly towards "our universe is deterministic, but in a way that's indistinguishable from indeterminism from ...

so you know I'm a compatibilist. I haven't changed my mind on that. So, knowing I'm a compatibilist, and knowing thus that my idea of free will does n...

I'm not talking about omniscience at all, just a being with a rewind button for our universe. If a brain in a vat dragon has the rewind button, then h...

What does it mean to "in reality have a choice between the two" though? If you're the god of some universe, and you want to check if someone "in reali...

You mean under the exact same conditions, right? You said it has nothing to do with the rewind test, but... that's it for me. That's what I imagine as...

I think the biggest part of it is that my conscious experience doesn't seem to be epiphenomenal. I can make a concsious choice and my body can enact i...

If we do some rewind experiment, and it does end up with me making a different choice despite being under exactly the same conditions, that difference...

The question you asked. I do not believe I expressed anything about free will being contingent upon randomness.

I don't think so. Do you think so? I think explicitly saying "it doesn't account for it" is exactly the opposite of me saying it's contingent on it. H...

It doesn't Account for it. It's just there. It exists. Not everything that exists has to account for everything else that exists. I don't believe the ...

IF there's quantum randomness, genuine randomness, then probably. If Many Worlds is the case, then at any point where quantum randomness might have pr...

that it's mostly irrelevant. It's an implementation detail that doesn't give us or deny us free will.

Ah sorry I didn't realize that's what you were asking for. A single event that's a hybrid. Well, I'm a programmer, and as a programmer I can tell you,...

it works like this: The Schrödinger equation evolves the wave function deterministically, and then at some moment it collapses the wave function rando...

I don't think it's paradoxical.

I'm not talking about what is the correct interpretation of quantum mechanics. I'm not making an ontological claim that this is true about the world. ...

you should make a thread about what interpretation you think is correct

you asked for a hybrid. Its a hybrid. It is a process which is in part deterministic and in part random.

nobody is suggesting it's correct. It's an idea. The idea is an idea which matches the concept of a hybrid of determinism and randomness.

your explanation doesn't make it not an example though. It feels like you're trying to bait out some specific answer you have in mind. I don't know wh...

I really don't understand why "quantum randomness" isn't a solid example of the question at the end of your post. That, to me, would be a hybrid.

i feel like what I said about quantum crap is a good example, no?

Because if I think incompatibilists understood free will incorrectly, because they understand it in such a way that it's incompatible with determinism...

I don't agree

Because the options aren't 100% determinism and 100% randomness. There's also the option of <some randomness>. If quantum randomness is the case, then...

Compatibilism is about conceiving of free will in such a way that it's compatible with determinism, which is distinct from an explicit claim that dete...

I don't know, we don't have to focus on that, I said pretty much every compatibilist believes in free will, so it doesn't really matter that I can con...

Perhaps that just because I think free will is compatible with determinism doesn't mean I actually believe we do have free will. As in, "there's a pos...

that's correct

I could probably be persuaded otherwise on some weird technicality but yeah, i think someone who calls themselves a compatibilist is almost certainly ...

your first question was how can the stance of compatibilism be compatible with randomness? Why wouldn't it be? I don't know what's so unsatisfying abo...

is hard to answer a post with many questions while staying focused, I do prefer answering one question at a time. A failing of mine perhaps, I focused...

i don't understand what you're perceiving as an ego battle. I genuinely tried to explain why compatibilists don't have to hard-commit to determinism. ...

you asked "doesn't that then mandate compatibilism's "hard commitment to determinism" in the sense that everything is causally inevitable?" I explaine...

if you know what the word 'compatible' means, you would understand.