How open should you be about sex?
Hi,
I'm new here. I was wondering what you think is appropriate or perhaps even appreciated to be open about sex, sexual thoughts, fantasies etc.
I am getting a lot of different reactions and opinions on this matter. Personally, I am extremely open about it (goes for most things for me). Sometimes people actually dispise it. Others find it enjoyable. And there is of course the situation factor. On my grandma's birthday is different than hanging out with friends.
It funny (especially when I am the odd one out) how sometimes people have different thoughts and when I explain mine and the ambience and feeling, they can understand it and maybe even reverse their opinion. I think we are very conditioned in society. Like, men are hornier than women. Or women are rude when they are open about their sexuality. It actually frustrates me. Even more when people ask about it and get angry at me for telling the truth.
So how open are you? To your lover, friends, family, strangers? Why are some people scared of talking? It is the thing we do most besides feeding, sleeping and surviving.
I'm new here. I was wondering what you think is appropriate or perhaps even appreciated to be open about sex, sexual thoughts, fantasies etc.
I am getting a lot of different reactions and opinions on this matter. Personally, I am extremely open about it (goes for most things for me). Sometimes people actually dispise it. Others find it enjoyable. And there is of course the situation factor. On my grandma's birthday is different than hanging out with friends.
It funny (especially when I am the odd one out) how sometimes people have different thoughts and when I explain mine and the ambience and feeling, they can understand it and maybe even reverse their opinion. I think we are very conditioned in society. Like, men are hornier than women. Or women are rude when they are open about their sexuality. It actually frustrates me. Even more when people ask about it and get angry at me for telling the truth.
So how open are you? To your lover, friends, family, strangers? Why are some people scared of talking? It is the thing we do most besides feeding, sleeping and surviving.
Comments (90)
When the sex topic is very specific and personal, I tend towards the clinical approach. Clinical talk makes it easier for me than using the vernacular. So, like a lot of gay men, I like to talk about gay sexuality. OLD JOKE: It used to be that homosexuality was the love that dare not speak its name. Now it won't shut up."
Intimacy on the other hand is something shared with someone special to you, and if they care for you, it just gets better, whether there is more or less sex is not even that important, because the intimacy its' the intimacy we're really looking for. At least that's what I think. Someone who has to live on nothing but caviar doesn't really enjoy it, and it's just kind of a habit they got into without ever thinking it was addiction. But when it's a special treat, it can be enjoyed many times, as long as its special, and with someone else who likes it too.
Not for me! That would be a shitty life :)
But back in the day...when I was very active...if it got me laid, I was all for being very open.
If the opposite tactic got me laid...I was for that, instead.
The objective always was: Is it gonna get me laid.
I was never much for lying, though...so if it came to that, I passed. Luckily, I spent lots of time tending bar...and the table was always full enough to push some dishes away, so to speak.
Yes, I am of course talking of intimacy. Thanks for your post. I am indeed in need of sharing such a connection with someone that I can tell anything to.
I think we should be just as open about sex as discussing politics. Opinions do matter; the voices of change can make a difference. After all, isn't the reason why many human's get together is because it's all about Love, sex and procreation? I think Schop and Freud thought so... . Accordingly, Schopenhauer thought that if it were not for sex, men and women would hate each other.
Politics is public, sex is private (most of the time).
The less private and sacred sex becomes, the less we are reticent to talk about it openly in public. Twenty years ago nobody talked about masturbation at dinner parties. Now people never shut up about it. I'm not sure if that's good or bad or neither. As I'm slightly old-fashioned I think that aside from education and therapy, it seems proper that sex talk is for intimate conversations or whispering behind others' backs.
tl;dr: it;s not the sex is inappropriate or offensive, it's that the actual social context of carrying on a discussion about sex can be kind of weird.
With all due respect, your comments and advice seem to be part of the problem and not the solution. It's an outdated paradigm. What about being old-school do you believe to be virtuous in this context?
In other words, you seem to be saying "keep those things in the closet; that's good for society". Does that sound intuitive and sophisticated about the expression of human nature/sexuality, or more like worrying about fears over your own truth concerning same?
What's the problem?
Quoting 3017amen
No, I don't think that's implied by what I said. But I don't really know what you mean. You're being too vague. Should we openly explore sexual matters so as to help people achieve satisfying sex lives free of anxiety and difficulty? Yes, that's why I excepted education and therapy. I took the OP to be referring to being open about your own personal sex life, and there I think intimacy is important, because respecting the intimacy of sex, the privacy of your partners, and so on, is important.
I find that physical intimacy is best with few if any words, and that there are far better subjects to connect emotionally in non-physical intimacy. No one is defined by their sexuality.
Who talks the same way about sex with their significant other as they would with their best friend whom they don't have sex with?
Wouldn't your significant other become jealous if they found out that you were sharing the same intimate details about your sexual life with someone else that you aren't sleeping with (yet)?
So unless you and all of your partners are into the same consensual polygamy, you would probably want to limit your unfettered openess to those you are actually engaged in a sexual relationship with.
More often than not sex is unattractive and shameful for anyone but the participants. Therefor it should be a private affair.
I get the unattractive part, but shameful?
Sexual dysfunction from lack of communication (about wants, needs, desires, etc.) in the context of human nature.
Quoting jamalrob
Sure, fair enough. I think that's what is driving much of the OP concern. suggested that he/she desired to have a partner who he/she felt comfortable enough to "tell anything to". That would imply that he/she may or may not have a partner right now, but is nevertheless seeking guidance on how to broach those kinds of subjects/sexual topics with someone. And so the irony is that the person of concern needs a forum in which to express those intimate desires, needs, etc. in the form of open communication about same. What is the medium for such communication?
For example, say an individual is a virgin, but desires to have sex and raise a family. But maybe they are scared, ashamed or embarrassed over the act of procreation/sex, and that they have wild sexual fantasies. Well, what a wonderful thing to have, sexual fantasies, right? The person then has a choice to communicate to a therapist, a forum, friends, ex-lovers, etc. etc. The common theme is the need to express oneself and communicate these normal desires wants and needs.
And so the person who was taught to suppress and repress those naturally wonderful desires and needs for sexual expression, is yearning or reaching out for help until such time that they find their partner that they are really comfortable with. In the interim, they need to talk to someone.
That's sort of a simple scenario, but it's usually much more complicated. Sexual dysfunction is the cause of many, many, disaster's just waiting to happen, viz relationships. Many of which stem from childhood or otherwise old worn-out outdated paradigms associated with not talking freely about sex.
You might not agree that completely 'open discussion' is a healthy approach. And I might not a agree that limiting the sexual discussion to a therapist is the only way or method (or if parents are unwilling to discuss same). We need to celebrate this wonderful gift that we give to each other. What's the means to that end?
Perhaps some people are proud when they get caught in a sex act or must speak of their sex life in any detail, but I wager the common response is shame and embarrassment.
It’s a shame that such repression is common.
Thank you for your questions. I am glad you joined with us. Please let me know if there is any way I can be of assistance to you. I, too, am new here.
Your excellent questions regarding sex and its various vicissitudes led me to the following questions:
1. What is the the foremost moral end and aim of my life?
2. How do my discussions of sex relate to that end and aim?
3. Do I have an accurate awareness of my motivations in such discussions?
4. In each different situation, are my remarks timely and appropriate?
5. In every situation and with every interlocutor, are my remarks kind?
6. Do my remarks put other's needs and capabilities first?
7. Is there a tendency towards aggressiveness in my discussion of sex, perhaps with some but not with others?
8. Are there any habitual patterns and inveterate tendencies that obscure my clarity in regard to any of these several questions?
And then, I came to think that Rilke might be able to shed some light on these questions:
O that man might take this secret, of which the world is full even to its littlest things, more humbly to himself and bear it, endure it, more seriously and feel how terribly difficult it is, instead of taking it lightly. That he might be more reverent toward his fruitfulness, which is but one, whether it seems mental or physical, is of one nature with it and only like a gentler, more ecstatic and more everlasting repetition of physical delight. - In one creative thought a thousand forgotten nights of love revive, filling it with sublimity and exaltation. And those who come together in the night and are entwined in rocking delight do an earnest work and gather sweetnesses, gather depth and strength for the song of some coming poet who will arise to speak of ecstasies beyond telling. http://www.floozy.com/allison/rilke/rilke4.html
How shall we tell of 'ecstasies' beyond telling?
But I'm not at all hesitant to talk about it, and I'll confess to having done things only so that I could tell my friends my crazy exploits later. Not terribly mature I guess, but we're having an open talk here.
Sexuality is really just part of life, and I do think it's silly not to be able to talk about it. I will admit though that those times I've been with someone I cared about, I saved the details for myself. It seemed disloyal to do otherwise.
lQuoting NOS4A2
Maybe just my circle of friends, but embarrassment doesn't usually attach to sexual conduct, but more so to lack of sexual partners and the suggestion that because you can't find a partner, you're somehow deficient. I don't believe that at all, but recognize that is entirely a product of lack of very specific social skills and perhaps timidness. Self worth is often too associated with how one fares with the opposite sex and that only exasperates the problem because lack of self confidence is what paves the road to that lack of success.
I think boasting of one's exploits is a way to show your confidence, even though it may be lacking. I also think finding more and more partners is a way to prove to yourself your own worth, which, of course speaks to lack of confidence. Maybe I do that sometimes. I do try to be sensitive when speaking among friends about various exploits or whatever, in realizing it makes some uncomfortable due to the sensitivity of it and others due just to their lack of such experiences.
But there's no mystery here. It's all about finding just one person to share your sexual experiences with and discussing them (or not). If you have that, it seems pretty insignificant whether you are open or closed in your discussions about sexuality to the general public.
After divorce I was really confused what to do, and as I had been in a Buddhist monastery for a while after leaving Oxford, I asked a Tibetan monk what to do. He said welcome to Thailand. Well it took me a while to figure out, lol, but now I have a very beautiful and amazingly intelligent Thai girlfriend. Currently she is saving money for university, and with my help she plans to start in the fall. Im very happy with her and could ask for nothing more. I feel like I am the luckiest man alive sometimes )
I should caution you, there are girls not so good in Bangkok, but some richer ones who are very nice but you'd really have to go to Thailand to meet them yourself before they'd want to date you at all. They dont have the silly thing about older people being stupid that seems so predominant in this country. The rural girls are fantastic, its almost unbelievable such people still exist in the modern world. They dont speak English as well as you might expect, but before judging it, its worth trying to understand how they think, because being Buddhist they are not prone to long dialogs in the first place. In general, they are not greedy, they are not vain at all, and they are perfectly open to considering whatever kind of exclusive relationship or not you want. As my girlfriend is much younger than me, and would need to marry again when I die, I encourage her to have a boyfriend her own age too, so she can marry him and have babies, by which time I will be too old to want sex anyway. So it took a while to figure out, but now I am very happy, and if you want to talk with some thai girls, there is a board call thaifriendly where you can find out what they are like )
That's what confuses me. Should I just be myself and utter the words and have a chance at a stronger bond(hehe possibly getting laid) or should I follow most others and shut my mouth that aren't really honest and open about it. I found a way to deal with it. Feel the ambience, try a few jokes, if people around me are not expressive and shutout and not open about other things, the chance is high they won't care for my sexual fantasies.
I should add, I don't spontaneously tell my fantasies. But when a friend says: 'uh that's disgusting and sick when people have that fantasy/fetish. ' I reply: 'I actually find it hot and enjoyable.'
So, I agree (and then some) with @jamalrob @fdrake and @Ciceronianus the White.
The only caveat I would add, as others have, is that when two people are already intimate then there's no reason not to share intimacies, including sexual intimacies. That's what being intimate is about. But if you're intimate with everyone, you're intimate with no-one.
Being intimate means sharing personal, deep maybe dark details, thoughts, feelings and convictions, feel affection, trust and feel safe with someone. I don't see how you could not be this with everyone. It feels like you mix Intimacy with a monogamous relationship.
Why are people self-obsessed if they talk about sex often?
That's where we differ.
Quoting ttjordy
No, no mention of monogamy by me. The "two people" is not exclusive.
Quoting ttjordy
Because they think everyone should listen to their
Quoting ttjordy
Not realising that many people not only don't care, they don't want to hear it. If those that were very open about sex were less self-obsessed that would be important enough for them to stop doing it. But they don't care because they think this stuff, because it's important to them, should be important to others.
Interesting points you raise indeed.
Just one person's opinion. A lot of it boils down to taste.
Ok, anything you say is because we believe/deem it to be important right?
But I get your point.
If they don't say to me that they don't want to hear about it, how am I to know? It works both ways.
Not everything. Hence, "small talk" etc. But certainly subjects you've yourself described as "deep" and as "convictions" would fall in that category.
Quoting ttjordy
Common sense based on shared cultural norms. So, for example, if I'm having lunch with a female friend, I don't begin the conversation by telling her how much I love anal sex (or whatever) because that to me would be inappropriate. And it's inappropriate because of the likelihood it would make her uncomfortable . Of course, it kind of depends on your circle of friends, but it's just like anything else, it's sometimes a breach of decorum/etiquette to say certain things in certain contexts. The fact that these things may be true is irrelevant. You don't get brownie points for honesty when you're volunteering information that hasn't been requested and is of no obvious value to the person receiving it.
"That's one of the first things I ask them."
:lol:
See, that's funny for a reason.
I heard the pubic was political.
Sure, but if you have a large collection of dark details (whatever that might be) one should save those details for a time when the relationship is mature. Dumping dark details on the unprepared might cause them to bolt for the door.
Yes, I've know people who mulch dark thoughts, dark feelings, etc. A sampling of dark shadows is OK, but if you have a lot to unload, pay somebody to listen.
I totally know this was intended for me.
The way you talk about sex is too stupid to be considered seriously, so you escape the admonition. You're welcome.
When you talk this way, I just want to hold you delicately against my bosom, wipe your tender tears with my tongue, and slowly hate fuck your bowels until you fall fast asleep.
Want stupid sex talk, I'll give you stupid sex talk.
You're welcome.
Yeah, ironical in a way. Some girls may be amused by that as first question and directness. But I am being annying dude, i apologise. I totally get it. I am raised with some etiquetttes and codes of conduct. But actually these are conditioned thinkings and convictions that it's weird to talk about anal sex on the first date. Why ahould it really? If you think about it, I can come up with no logical, rational reason why you should avoid it.
Im into both by the way.
Such strong love and respect bubbling under the surface :D
Nobody cares, except for your sexual partners, and maybe some of your friends. This is what Baden was talking about: it's a sign of self-obsession that you think we're interested. In fact, my first reaction to your OP was that you were here just to talk about your sex life, and disguised this with a discussion about ethics. And now that, disappointingly, nobody has asked you about it, you've begun to tell us anyway.
That's the cynical interpretation, anyway.
On the other hand, I have felt the urge to talk a lot about sex during those periods when my sex life has been particularly good, and maybe that's what is going on with you now. When I felt that urge, it didn't feel like self-obsession, but more like an innocent enthusiasm: isn't sex great!
I think that's okay, but best among friends who you know are going to enjoy the conversation.
I am simply telling an anecdote. I am aware that last information did not really add anything to the discussion. But that's okay, I am still human. I.can not have a 100% rational discussion without getting interested or excited or worked up. I also found it lame not to tell my response to her reply.
I appreciate the cricism by the way.
It's always hard to know. There was at a class at my university that others told me about that explored the meaning of pornography in society, which required a bunch of 20 year old students to watch graphic videos from time to time in class. It was taught by a female professor.
The idea that these students (and the professor) transcended their personal sexual drives and were actually engaged in objective academic study was comical to me, especially then and pretty much now.
That's not to say there's nothing to say academically on the subject, but I wasn't buying it. So I do get what you're saying., but my response typically is the opposite from yours, which isn't to disengage from the bs, but to jump right in and make mockery.
Anywho, enough of this talk. Time to roll off top my sister and get ready for work.
For if you want another datapoint:
If we're talking about talking about sex, I don't find it distasteful when people do, unless it's exaggerated/bragging and their past partners are the butt of every bragging joke. Hearing decontextualised gory details is boring to me if I'm not involved in them, or if they're not presented with a good joke that shows some insight. I wouldn't talk about the intimate details of my current sex life in a public setting, unless it was a problem with my current sex life I was confiding in a very close friend. I'd probably keep my voice down in that case.
I'd hesitate to say "this is how things must be done", or to essentialise my attitudes towards sex, or to derive ironclad norms of conduct (how it ought to be done or talked about...) from my preferences.
I don't follow the comment about the unavailability of therapy for sex related issues. Maybe you just had the wrong therapist.
He/she may just be castrated for that.
I believe in less harsh punishment for paedophilia, but not for some cases of rape.
'Viewing material' cases do not warrant castration, no matter how much people hate it.
As I just said in a different thread. I don't care about your children as much as, per se, my adult year friend.
I also have respect for the mind and am able to judge that our civilization is very evil.
Some people will urge differently than what's accepted.
If human justice wants to appear moral, then punishing any sexuality is bad, especially prior to the administration of such.
I consider "I will cut your dick off", a worse sexual act than paedophilic urges, and I don't want my children to think this man exists.
To conclude, I believe we should all be able to be open about our sex, but advertising or grooming is bad in some circles.
Definitely, they promised me things at intake and did not live up to their promises. I was in danger and I send off clear signals and they did not even want to take it in consideration. So I left them. It was group therapy, so I am aware one should be careful approaching sex-related issues seeing as people might be abused. But I literally said that I noticed excessive sexual behaviour and that I wanted to change that. It significantly damaged my life at the time.
So you are right.
Well, then takes some load off my shoulders. I am not the bragging type. I am not even elaboratively discussing all the details explicitly, unless with my current sex partner. With her I am telling every little dirty thing but she thinks it's hot and happy that she can be open to me as well. It's considered inappriopriate for a man to talk nastily about sex, consider how people would think if a girl does that….
At some point, whether through years of experience with multiple partners, or intellectual reasoning, one can easily conclude that a search for the Stevie Windwood 'Higher Love' is something worth searching for... .
In other words, the mind, body, spirit connection makes sex that much better. But of course, you already knew that.
I've been with several women ( I'm divorced) and on the first date, they asked how big my penis was... . I must admit I was a bit startled, but was able to banter back. I took it as a fun-loving gesture/question... .
This is the important distinction that people fail to make. Glad you parsed it!
Yep, ask Bill Clinton that one !
Sort of begs yet another question about human sexuality. Why do people have affairs?
Freud apparently had some theories:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psychoanalysis-unplugged/201805/7-things-about-sex-and-love-sigmund-freud-nailed
I believe that's a healthy outlook and approach. Seems appropriate, depending upon your so-called audience.
As long as you are true to yourself (about your sexuality), it seems like a virtuous thing that should be celebrated and nurtured. And sure, use common sense, and temper your enthusiasm where appropriate... .
I don't want to talk about your sexual life.
You're reporting on either your personal norm or what you perceive as a cultural norm, but what you say isn't universally accepted. Women and men speak the same where I'm from.
I don't think people have affairs for one reason only. Successful monogamy requires self and social discipline -- and in many instances, both of those disciplines are weak. One may not feel much guilt for having affairs and/or the social sanctions for having affairs are not very consequential. Still, we know that morally disciplined, guilt prone people living in rigidly moralistic societies still have affairs. There are both positive and negative motivations for affairs. An affair does not prove that the primary relationship is unsuccessful.
I didn't include biological motivations. I don't think philandering birds are motivated by sexual boredom, and while human behavior may be driven by biological drives, we usually don't think in biological terms when evaluating our own behavior, Husbands are unlikely to explain an affair by saying that he was optimizing his chances of having surviving offspring. He'd be laughed out of court.
a) for variety in sexual and emotional experiences - positive motivation
b) opportunity (suddenly, bedding a casual partner became possible and convenient) - positive motivation
c) boredom with long-term relationship - negative motivation
d) ego-boost (hey, I can still attract others) - positive motivation
e) vindictiveness (punishing a permanent partner) - negative motivation
f) feelings of worthlessness (I'll prove that I am bad) - negative motivation
g) nostalgia (for the days when one was free and available) - either positive or negative motivation
Very, very well said Bitter!!!
Lots to unpack there, and plenty of lessons learned, as it were.
I do think yet another common theme emerges there namely a lack of communication of some sort, which is driving many of these behaviors.
I think we can all relate to stories relative to human beings not being able to express their sexual dissatisfactions with their partners. It certainly doesn't justify an affair, however, some people ( introverts ) are unable to express their wants and needs and sometimes act out on their dissatisfactions... .
And of course often times we hear about how religious dogma and associated so-called paradigm's suppressing/repressing expression... very sad indeed.
Yes, and that's why @ttjordy was wondering how open one's discussions should be.
Couples, however they define themselves, definitely do better by communicating what is important to the relationship. Many don't. Or, they bottle up dissatisfactions until it becomes anger then rage and finally they blow up, and a bad time is had all round. And blow-ups usually don't help. (Of course it isn't just sexual issues that follow this course.). Blow-ups involve too many guided missiles and not nearly enough negotiation. It can be hard for the two people to recover.
I've not always been as communicative as I should have been. I don't really know why -- At times I just wanted to get into my shell and stay there. I'm kind of a loner, sort of introverted. The racket between my ears was about all I could manage sometimes.
BTW, I think Freud gets short shrift these days. True enough, not all of his ideas were successful, and Freud was better than some 'Freudian' practitioners. The various schools of psychotherapy that were spawned (everything from Behaviorism to Orgone Boxes) enriched the field greatly and in other cases added a great deal of bullshit to the soil. Wilhelm Reich had some excellent observations in social psychology, particularly about the psychology of fascism, if I remember correctly,, but his theory that one could accumulate psychic energy in his Orgone Box falls into the bullshit category. Too bad. It would be nice if one could.
All those who are not open about their sexuality, post here...
Yes, agreed!
Quoting Bitter Crank
Indeed. I can't tell you how many people both men and women who have complained to me... . It must have something to do with the notion over why human's have intrinsic fears... .
Quoting Bitter Crank
Yep, I get that. I used to be more of an introvert but when I went into my midlife crisis, having to manage people and getting back into performing music, I was forced to embrace extroversion in order to help achieve success in both those areas of my personal and professional life.
Quoting Bitter Crank
Yep. Although a bit eccentric, I think he was onto something. We now know having regular orgasms can help cure a lot of ailments including breast and prostate cancer. I would have loved to try the orgone box though! In principle, it seemed like initially he had good intentions. Good stuff Bitter!
Thanks man. I am learning to handle it better nowadays. I was never allowed by my parents to talk about sex or intimacy when I was a child. I think that damaged or actually inprented a slanted, crooked view on openness about them.
I am reporting on the societal norm. I actually find it normal for both sexes to be as open.
Thanks for a very detailed and explanatory comment!
That's fine by me.
Yep! I think women are finally coming out of their shell and speaking their mind to other men which is a good thing. For years they just kept it among themselves... .
Both men and women want good sex!
...and... ?
Yep! I remember in grade school one of the kids said to me that their parents wake them up in the morning before school butt naked. When he said that to me, I laughed, and thought it was very strange. Looking back it couldn't be further from the truth. I wish my parents had woke me up nude.
How about this; it was and would have been a teaching moment without having to teach!
Currently, yes.
Why is that information useful and interesting to this discussion?
An interesting topic. Schopenhauer (and Freud of course) broke it wide open. The studies by Kinsey et al, Masters and Johnson, are worth looking into as well. As for your question: I don't find it hard to talk about, but I have to talk about it objectively.
Like most things, it's a touchy subject and therefore MUCH more interesting than average conversation.
Objectively would be like sexual education. And subjectively would mean your own prefences, fantasies or fetishes?
I just like to ask questions about sex; some people get on me about it, but I think its better to be open.
I see them as related. We simply don't consider most of our behavior reflectively, including sexual behavior (thoughts or actions). Any individual's piccadillos isn't terribly interesting outside of a general psychological understanding. How these are acquired through experience is interesting, for example.
I think analyzing sex in terms of power dynamics is on the right track. The effects of internet pornography and how it's effecting adolescent male's brains is another topic of importance.
I'm digressing from the OP, but my point is only that I agree it's an important topic and should be discussed openly more - especially in our morbid, Puritanical society.
That said it can be a personal topic that stirs up emotion. Someone who's been cheated on, etc. Imagine you're married and you found out your best friend who you've known for years, before you met your wife in this case, slept with her often beforehand. Or you suddenly find out an old friend of your wife who she has around, watches the kids, currently works for, whatever it may be, did the same and no one told you. The average person might look at him a little differently. To say the least.
Personally I like to keep personal/irrelevant business to myself. As far as partners go you were either real and up front at the beginning or you weren't. Whatever your mannerism is to the thing be it subtle or explicit it shouldn't take much thought.
Now that I'm older (heh I guess) I have to say I'm not a fan of promiscuity. When you mature you realize there's really no female close in your life you wish to be or have been. Naturally you'd be proud of your son to be so. Eh. Male hypocrisy/misogyny what can I say.