I have studied in small part the book of Job in the past and would be interested to hear interpretations from Rabbinic or other perspectives on the power of belief in one's own righteousness and piety in face of gratuitous suffering by the hand of God through the will of Satan.
I don't know much about the book of Job, although I think it was preceded by the book of Hand.
[I]My[/I] perspective on the power of belief in one's own righteousness and piety in face of gratuitous suffering by the hand of God through the will of Satan, is that it's kinda stoopid.
My perspective on the power of belief in one's own righteousness and piety in face of gratuitous suffering by the hand of God through the will of Satan, is that it's kinda stoopid.
Your perspective on the power of belief in one's own righteousness and piety in face of gratuitous suffering by the hand of God through the will of Satan, is kinda stoopid.
Reply to CuddlyHedgehog Your comment on my perspective on the power of belief in one's own righteousness and piety in face of gratuitous shrubbery by the hand of God through the will of Satan, is kinda stoopid.
Reply to CuddlyHedgehog
Oh, don't make fun of the disabled now. Not saying Sapientia is disabled, but find another way to get at people if thats what gives you kicks.
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 18, 2018 at 00:27#1632600 likes
Reply to Posty McPostface I think he might be. I am not making fun of the disabled, by the way (I don't know what gave you that idea), just making fun of Sapientia.
I'm not disabled, in spite of Dr. Hedgehog's proffesional opinion. I'm tremendously abled. I'm the most able person you've ever encountered... I'm not disabled.
Ah, no. However, coming from someone who never has felt or understood the need to carry a weapon in his neighbourhood, the only way I could imagine needing a weapon for safety is in the event of mass social strife and conflicts.
I've never seen so much distortion (at least exposed, since warping of the truth can only be made aware if the truth is already known) in my life that is happening in America, now. I'm downright convinced that there's a massive amount of fear and paranoia within the White House and in Trump's cocaine addled and peon sized mind against Mueller. But, the overt attempts to discredit, slader, and hobbling of his investigation is astounding. Such astounding incompetence.
I mean, the reality TV show has taken on a life inside the White House and the whole of America now. What's even more worrying is the amount of people suspect and disenfranchised with the justice department. 1 in 2 Americans trust in the integrity of the FBI, the only institution that I hold sacred in the branches of government. God I wish we can resurrect someone like J. Edgar Hoover and phuqing grab these clowns by the balls and get the whole shitshow under control.
[Quote=The Mirror]Unilever has decided to move its corporate HQ from London to the Netherlands. Brexit was a factor, but by the far the biggest reason was Britain’s takeover rules.
Unilever’s chief executive Paul Polman put it like this recently: “Do you want short-term forces – that work for a few people, and make a few more billionaires – to be the dominant force?
“Or do you want the system to work for the billions that need to be served? It’s a fundamental choice.”
Mr Polman has now made that fundamental choice. He has moved his company, and with it a lucrative source of tax, because he believes our rules put the interests of shareholders ahead of the customers, workers and suppliers who are essential to Unilever’s success.[/quote]
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 18, 2018 at 12:57#1634000 likes
Love cabbage raw. Love it steamed. Love it in a salad. Love it with lots of black pepper. Love it in coleslaw as long as it's not mixed with other vegetables and the dressing is just mayonnaise and vinegar.
Mayo, vinegar and a pinch of sugar. :yum: I leave the celery seed out of yours and the sugar if you want~ I aim to please :wink:
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 18, 2018 at 13:19#1634070 likes
Ah, no. However, coming from someone who never has felt or understood the need to carry a weapon in his neighbourhood, the only way I could imagine needing a weapon for safety is in the event of mass social strife and conflicts.
Fair enough. I know that the neighbor ranches on both sides of ours are armed, they have cute signs that say "You can take my bullets first" in their front windows, so I will be over there in case you need somewhere to hang out for a bit if mass social strife happens.
And in the event of necessary self sufficiency, the horses don't need gasoline and the herd of cows and goats? Well? Beef or Goat for tacos tomorrow? I hope you like chicken tenders because the Quail's life span from egg to edible is 8 weeks and boy do they procreate!
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 18, 2018 at 13:25#1634090 likes
1 in 2 Americans trust in the integrity of the FBI, the only institution that I hold sacred in the branches of government
Posty, the rank and file should be held as sacred today as they were back in the days of Hoover. I have had the rare opportunity to watch some of young men and women, who are being educated and groomed for career position in the Alphabet communities and I have never been more impressed with a balanced generation of 'thinkers'.
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 18, 2018 at 13:33#1634120 likes
Mayo, vinegar and a pinch of sugar. :yum: I leave the celery seed out of yours and the sugar if you want~ I aim to please
Sometimes my wife puts the celery seed in, but usually not. I'd try it with sugar before I sent it back to the chef. The same dressing makes the best macaroni salad.
Ah, no. However, coming from someone who never has felt or understood the need to carry a weapon in his neighbourhood, the only way I could imagine needing a weapon for safety is in the event of mass social strife and conflicts.
Are you suggesting that because you have never felt the need to protect yourself with a firearm, that no else in the world feels the need to protect themselves with a firearm? If so, I invite you outside of your cubicle and visit places where walking down the street is always risky.
Churchill was known to drain a glass or two and, after one particularly convivial evening, he chanced to encounter Miss Bessie Braddock, a Socialist member of the House of Commons, who, upon seeing his condition, said, “Winston, you’re drunk.” Mustering all his dignity, Churchill drew himself up to his full height, cocked an eyebrow and rejoined, “Shove it up your ass, you ugly cunt.”
:rofl:
(So glad I followed that link. Brilliant! Completely not what I was expecting).
"In 2014, the FBI reports there were only 224 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm. That same year, there were 7,670 criminal gun homicides. Guns were used in 34 criminal homicides for every justifiable homicide.
Intended victims of violent crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 1.1 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2013 and 2015.
Intended victims of property crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 0.2 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2013 and 2015."
Check out the stats for yourself. It's extremely rare to use a gun succesfully in self defense.
Here you say successful gun use in self defense, whereas you've most recently changed the goal posts by finding a source that only details homicides in relation to successful gun use in self defense. In other words, you must still prove to me that use of a gun in self defense without killing someone is extremely rare. I doubt, however, that you'll be able to do so, which is why I was and still am amused by your first assertion.
Reply to Buxtebuddha I proved the point I meant to prove and which is relevant to the discussion, which is that gun possession very rarely is useful in reducing crime. To the extent you wish for me to prove that guns don't effectively injure criminals when used, that makes little sense, as that would imply that they also don't injure victims when used. If that were the case, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Regardless, my Google skills don't exceed yours, so if you need data supporting or denying my position, Google away.
Your general knowledge is phenomenal. We gave this test to 200 people with college degrees and only 4% scored as high as you did. Your curiosity must be highly developed. You ask probing questions, you love learning, and you have an incredibly wide range of interests.
It is not to be repaired but adaptable for change. Americas ability to reinvent ourselves is at the core of who we are.
One of the advantages of age is perspective. It is so frustrating to hear people complain about the current state of affairs in this country with no apparent understanding of how bad things have been in the past or how many good things there are now. I have a close friend from my high school in southern Virginia who vividly remembers the humiliation she felt as a girl walking past the bus passengers in the front as she moved to the back to find a seat for herself.
It's more than frustration, I feel anger. These people are intellectually lazy and self-centered. It's the same attitude that leads so many of them to believe the world is a bad place.
There. I feel better now.
unenlightenedMarch 18, 2018 at 20:01#1635690 likes
Who needs skills, anyway, with an education like this?
If a trained gun user can injure three students in a gun safety lesson, without the aid of any demented terrorists, I can't really see the average teacher being much use in a crisis, unless your teachers are in a whole other league to ours. Oh, wait, this was one of your teachers. Now what I need here is a facepalm upgrade - face-napalm, perhaps.
proved the point I meant to prove and which is relevant to the discussion, which is that gun possession very rarely is useful in reducing crime.
That's not the point you wrote out, so good try backtracking. You obviously don't want to defend what you yourself said which is fine, just know that if you're going to throw out bullshit claims again, "just google it" is not a worthwhile reply.
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 19, 2018 at 02:01#1636660 likes
Reply to Sir2u if you rely on that tabloid to tell you how knowledgeable you are, you’re screwed (using the technical term here).
Reply to CuddlyHedgehog Typical non adventurous idle minded person. How do you know something is bad until you have tried it?
Just because it is the Sun does not mean it has to be bad. Page 3 used to be great.
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 19, 2018 at 02:45#1636770 likes
Reply to Sir2u I’d much prefer to see a nice pair of plums on it.
Coming off my mood stabilizer is feeling me full of a plethora of emotions. But, one emotion that stands out and has made it all worthwhile, is love or empathy.
Coming off my mood stabilizer is feeling me full of a plethora of emotions. But, one emotion that stands out and has made it all worthwhile, is love or empathy.
So much emotion!
Why are you coming off your mood stabilizer? Has your mood stabilized or are you just sick of taking the med?
unenlightenedMarch 19, 2018 at 12:53#1637740 likes
Coming off my mood stabilizer is feeling me full of a plethora of emotions. But, one emotion that stands out and has made it all worthwhile, is love or empathy.
So much emotion!
I wish you all the best, and hope you can keep a small centre of calm in the whirlwind. Because you're worth it, as they say. :heart:
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 19, 2018 at 14:07#1637920 likes
In my frequent rants about metaphysical questions vs. questions of fact, I always use the question "Does the multiverse exist" as an example of a question that cannot be answered with a yes or no answer because the phenomenon cannot be detected even in theory. According to this article, Stephen Hawking was about to publish his prediction that the multiverse can be detected.
To be honest, I really think you are right that this is a serious problem. I mean, I already feel this in the economic environment. The world is a lot more competitive today in business (and not only, in sports too, etc.) than ever before. And something has to give at one point. The population increase is but one reason of this hyper-competitiveness. The more people, the harder you need to fight to stand out, to win the job, succeed in the business, be the champion, etc.
You take pretty much any Top ATP tennis player today - say rank 200, and make them play world no. 1 from 1960, and the world no.1 won't stand a chance. When I watch pre-Open era tennis matches, I feel it really was a game back then. Now it is more like a battle, and the players really are warriors. And it is so in all spheres of life.
Mods - I posted a fairly long comment in the White Identity and Marxism thread, and it said he was "queued for review" or something to that effect. What's up with that?
We have a trigger word list that automatically sends comments to the moderation queue if they contain certain words. Yours was picked up for "moronic".
The mods will now be able to make sure that Agustino's comments only get posted after they get their seal of approval. I like this idea of censorship :naughty:
m o r o n - does the software capture this? No. So seems like if you leave spaces between the letters, there's no way for the software to capture you ;)
OK, everyone can go back to calling each other oxymorons now as I've removed the trigger. For now. It might get reinstated but it's not very consistent to have it there on its own, I agree.
We have a trigger word list that automatically sends comments to the moderation queue if they contain certain words. Yours was picked up for "moronic".
We have a trigger word list that automatically sends comments to the moderation queue if they contain certain words. Yours was picked up for "moronic".
There are already enough moderator conspiracy theories out there. No need to start more.
Mods - I posted a fairly long comment in the White Identity and Marxism thread, and it said he was "queued for review" or something to that effect. What's up with that?
We have a trigger word list that automatically sends comments to the moderation queue if they contain certain words. Yours was picked up for "moronic".
Granted that almost all of Maw's posts contain at least one insults, you'll have quite a bit of work to do in the future :rofl:
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 19, 2018 at 21:27#1640180 likes
Can I put 'China', 'Chinese' and 'aluminium window fittings' on the trigger list? That would solve 95% of our spam problems. We can then agree to refer to China by its Chinese name. Conversations on aluminium and windows, however, will be permanently outlawed.
Reply to Mr Phil O'Sophy We recently had a lot of comments with people calling each other morons. It doesn't really have anything to do with words being offensive which is why swear words aren't on the list.
As in, it took him 11 minutes to say the one sentence that I said about yoga being simply exercise and stretching and all that higher plain gobbledegook is bullshit? I don't have a problem with him, the fact that he told the theosophists to sod off is enough to gain my respect, but that's about it really.
Reply to Mr Phil O'Sophy Agu means "come on", and I have flagged him when he writes "common" so many times now I've lost count. And he continues to make the same mistake.
I just bench pressed the entire gym - people, locker room, everything, even the hot chick in the yoga pants. Three reps, held the last one with one hand, ate a sammich with the other. Where do I go to from here?
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 19, 2018 at 23:53#1641180 likes
I’d much prefer to see a nice pair of plums on it.
Oh but some of them lasses had good pairs on them, no doubt about it.
But any, did you try the test? I wanted to discuss the validity of it with someone.
It seems to me that any test of general knowledge must have a certain value, no matter the source of the test. Or are you one of those people that judges books my their covers?
Posty, never forget we are here. I know how it can feel to be out on your own hike, listening to the noises of the world that have been hushed for a while. Be easy on yourself, use the tool of "Worry time" and remember there will come a time when the laughs come as easy as the negative thoughts. Hang on, keep a simple grip, know when you are treading water and when you are going down and remember to keep talking.
{{{{Posty}}}} One minute at a time my friend, one minute at a time :heart:
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 20, 2018 at 14:47#1644470 likes
Can God be fired?
Just curious as to who his boss is...
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 20, 2018 at 14:57#1644560 likes
He should be fired. He's not doing a good job anyway
I was just wondering if he has someone who he has to atone to. :chin:
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 20, 2018 at 15:34#1644640 likes
Reply to Mr Phil O'Sophy Why would God create finite beings who lack the ability to understand the bigger picture and so are conveniently incapable of challenging his righteousness? Is God bored and wanted to create an idiotic species just for the entertainment value or does he suffer from Trump's syndrome (aversion to criticism)? I don't know why God should be a "He' anyway, but if that's what the sheeple believe then so be it.
unenlightenedMarch 20, 2018 at 16:03#1644780 likes
From 'Puppet Song', by The Incredible String band. Seek it out for the whole wonderful story...
And so the little man climbed up on a rickety ladder, to the heavenly lands
And he shed a tear, 'it's all so queer and it doesn't seem clear'
Now God was sitting easy in a heavenly chair
Breathing deep and lazy on the heavenly air
The little man got near him just to get right from wrong
Said 'God are you responsible for all that goes on'
God looked up from having a heavenly think
He gave that little questioner a heavenly wink, saying
'men have coloured me with the colours of their minds
So I find
They use me as an excuse for all kinds of goofs
And for crimes of all kinds
All your so hard facts painted thinly on the void
Why were you not more pleasantly employed
Anything you want to do, I'm happy if you make it go right
And it's true if it makes you happy you know it makes the
World more bright
And you shall have liberty
It always was yours anyway
You're one of my kind, you're an infinite mind
You make each new day
There's nothing more I can say'.
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 20, 2018 at 16:13#1644800 likes
Can God be fired?
Just curious as to who his boss is...
Here's a quote from the Tao Te Ching I use as often as I can:
The Tao is like a well:
used but never used up.
It is like the eternal void:
filled with infinite possibilities. It is hidden but always present.
I don't know who gave birth to it.
It is older than God.
Does anyone know what the fuck Moses88's problem with me is? He continues to stalk and publicly mock me ever since I somehow insulted him back on the old PF. Not that I really care, I'm just curious if anyone understands his motivations for repetitively calling me the "most remarkable beheaded corpse-stupid-shit-idiot" and threatening to behead me. :chin:
How the writer describes the Tao is a similar description to Allah, only I wonder what the writer of the Tao meant by God. Is there any other description of God in the Tao do you know? Other than this particular quote?
The Tao Te Ching was written about -600 BCE. I looked on the web and there are a long list of Chinese gods.
I've always thought Lao Tzu wasn't referring to any specific god or gods, just god or gods in general. I may be wrong.
Not that I really care, I'm just curious if anyone understands his motivations for repetitively calling me the "most remarkable beheaded corpse-stupid-shit-idiot" and threatening to behead me. :chin:
Thanks for the link. Keep in mind that there is Taoist philosophy and Taoist religion. The religion sometimes interprets the Tao Te Ching literally so there are beliefs in immortality and sexual practices.
Reply to Mr Phil O'Sophy Interesting, especially with regards to God's nearness. If God is the ground of Being, then God is certainly both "most near" and "farthest" compared to us. Most near because there is nothing closer or more intimately related to us, and farthest because it's the hardest thing to perceive what is near. Your nose is very difficult to perceive, normally you're not even aware of it (for example). St. Augustine says a similar thing when he says that God is closer to us than our own jugular vein.
‘The Philosophy Forum’ is an online philosophy-discussion forum (http://thephilosophyforum.com). The forum contains some stupid ones. I will introduce them here.
StreetlightX: This guy is a stupid idiot. He does not know much about philosophy.
Agustino: Agustino is the smashed potato discovered in the North America recently.
Michael: Michael is Yahadreas. He is a clinical psychopath.
Terrapin Station: He is the stupid trash can installed in Uganda.
…and many others.
Let every trash go to trash cans.
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 20, 2018 at 20:05#1645800 likes
This forum is starting to feel a lot like kindergarten playground.
I guess the moral of this story is don't give too much info away on the internet. It's just too easy to put the pieces together. And don't threaten people, especially if you can be tracked down yourself.
Reply to Mr Phil O'Sophy It would take a lot to dissuade me from my belief that he's just an amusing troll, although I have yet to delve deeply into the gold mine that is his blog.
nah honestly, when you've gone through his blog in detail you'll see there way too much commitment to it considering there is no interaction on the blog. It just seems to be too serious. I'm not getting the troll vibe from him at all.
I disagree. I think it's just his humour. It's what's known as anti-humour, I think. It's not supposed to make sense. I could easily create a blog like that and contribute to it over the years. Would you be concerned about my mental health, too?
Donald Trump: The soccer players in Korea International Football team are the prisoners in Arizona State Prison.
Melania Trump: What do you mean???
Donald Trump: For every x, and for every y, if x is a soccer player in Korea International Football team, and y is a prisoner in Arizona State Prison, then x is identical to y.
Yeah, is facebook a thing anymore? I can't tell. I seem to use it less and less, which I have no problem with. I just saw on insta that you can now shop there?? wtf is that??
Reply to Noble Dust First, Noble - how the fuck are we getting another Nor-Easter tomorrow? This is like the 4th in as many weeks.
Anyway, I use Facebook less and less too. Few of my friends use it frequently, some have left entirely, and it has transformed into a literal newsfeed rather than a social feed (ever since they became explicitly competitive with Twitter). Any remaining social aspects of it are just people tagging each other in memes, or posting baby pictures, or other crap I don't care about.
I currently use Instagram more than Facebook, but I'm using that less and less too. It's becoming, as you said, overly commercialized.
I used Snapchat here and there several years ago, but stopped because it was just too much. Now it looks like Instagram stories killed it. No one my age group uses it anymore. Twitter isn't that significant either. It's been their saving grace that Trump uses it nonstop, otherwise they'd be mostly culturally irrelevant.
So what else even is there? I'm disconnected from the younger "Generation Z" (which, for their sake, I hope they get a better appellation), so I have no clue as to what's popular.
First, Noble - how the fuck are we getting another Nor-Easter tomorrow? This is like the 4th in as many weeks.
Right? To be fair though, every time the city freaks out about a storm, it ends up being a fraction of what it was rumored to be. I'm not too worried about tomorrow, although the timing sucks, as I had a three day weekend, and tomorrow is my monday.
I have to use facebook for music; all of my musician friends constantly post about their shows/happenings...but even with that, the more FB becomes a show calendar, the less likely I am to go to shows, other than the shows my closest friends/collaborators are actually putting on.
I currently use Instagram more than Facebook, but I'm using that less and less too. It's becoming, as you said, overly commercialized.
One thing I appreciate about insta is that you scroll through, and you can really only look at one photo at a time. Whereas the scroll experience on FB is actually more overwhelming, because I can see text blocks, photos, videos, memes, links, etc., all at once. But yes, the commercialization of insta and social media in general is quite ironic; these massive tech companies that are politically left are, in reality, the cusp of capitalism's wave.
So what else even is there? I'm disconnected from the younger "Generation Z" (which, for their sake, I hope they get a better appellation), so I have no clue as to what's popular.
A worse issue is that we're all sheep; snapchat closes, and we all just flock to instagram. What happens when instagram closes? We'll just flock to the next outlet. Ad nausea. And what then? What's the end game? There's a clear teleological assumption with social media, but the actual teleological end game is not at all clear.
Right? To be fair though, every time the city freaks out about a storm, it ends up being a fraction of what it was rumored to be. I'm not too worried about tomorrow, although the timing sucks, as I had a three day weekend, and tomorrow is my monday.
Right, the last snow storm lasted for hours, but nothing really stuck, and anything that did melted within a few days. It should be warm enough that very little will stick again.
A worse issue is that we're all sheep; snapchat closes, and we all just flock to instagram. What happens when instagram closes? We'll just flock to the next outlet. Ad nausea. And what then? What's the end game? There's a clear teleological assumption with social media, but the actual teleological end game is not at all clear.
I think the issue with Instagram vs. Snapchat was that, initially, waaay more people were on Instagram than Snapchat, and, originally, they served different purposes. But when Instagram launched "stories" in mid-2017 to compete with Snapchat, the platform had around 700 million monthly users vs. Snapchat's 170ish million monthly users, rendering Snapchat effectively unnecessary.
But the question then is: what would be next? The platforms that have all the people I'd like to stay "connected" with are shit, are "old", or are dying. Where will people flock to next?
To me the question is: why is something going to be next? We can feel smart and progressive while we sit here and try to predict the next social media craze; but why are we so apparently at the mercy of a technocratic world in which we drink whatever poison is offered du jour? Why can't we shut off?
Reply to Noble Dust The digital world is addictive, and a large portion of people will want to show friends, co-workers, acquaintances, etc. what they are doing, what they enjoy, etc. People will use it when they are bored, or in between awkward moments, or in order to even just look busy. I imagine Virtual Reality will, eventually, be seismic.
Reply to Noble Dust Hmm well I think I somewhat addressed the last two why questions you posed (at least to the extent I can do so at 1:30am). As to the initial "why is something going to be next", I imagine some young entrepreneur will tap into something
I think i'm going in for the "meta"-why questions; the two-year-old questions. Why are we addicted to social media? When we say "addiction", is it figurative or literal? If it's figurative, then what do we mean when we say "addiction"? If it's literal, what is scientifically and spiritually happening when we become addicted? Let's not beat around the bush; let's address whatever this thing is.
Maybe to be pulled towards things without willing it, but as a sort of reflex like when you jerk your hand when it burns on the pan. Rather than being guided by a conscious and focused will that is considering what it is doing.
Reply to Michael I don't know if I'll ever be able to hear the phrase "knew exactly what he was doing" and not be reminded of Marco Roboto's epic glitch.
Cambridge Analytica bosses claimed they invented 'Crooked Hillary' campaign, won Donald Trump the presidency...so much for Trump's nicknaming talent. Facebook has lost 8% of its market value this week, or nearly $35 billion.
Reply to Cavacava Yeah, he recently said that he hated the "drain the swamp" slogan when it was first suggested to him, but after being persuaded to use it and it being applauded, he continued with it.
Makes you wonder; does he actually mean anything he says, or does he just like to be popular? I'm guessing the latter.
Reply to Cavacava Yeah apparently the Deep State thing too. The Deep State is also a thing in Eastern European countries, so... I guess they all have the same advisor.
"We've just used a different organisation to run a very, very successful project in an Eastern European country where... no-one even knew they were there," company executive Mark Turnbull said.
And here the whistleblower talks about how CA tested the idea of a "deep state" as far back as 2014.
So it seems to me that this nonsense of a "deep state" is being fabricated by a political firm trying to influence opinion and policy, and all these accusations of "fake news" are being directed by fake news. How ironic.
Populists are being played by big business. And by Russians.
Reply to Michael
I really doubt that by the latter. They get their advice from big business too. The Ukraine and Georgia conflict was engineered to shift public attention away from terrible economic performance (check the decreasing popularity of the government at that time), to national pride & strength. It worked, approval ratings jumped to 90% (from 60%) in virtually no time. They are still at those levels.
And here's the thing - those people in charge in those countries - virtually ALL the Eastern countries without exception, are dumb as hell, but they make up for lack of intelligence through brutality & shamelessness. I know for certain that they would NEVER dream of such ingenious schemes. These are the kinds of people who are authentic idiots and who really have no morality whatsoever (to the point that they don't care what the truth is, they just care what is good for them - they don't even perceive that they're doing anything wrong). Someone has to do it for them for sure. Like, do you know those bums in the UK who don't have a job, drink, smoke, and hate immigrants? That's the intelligence level of those people. Corruption and brutality, combined with building a network of similar people around you (who are incapable, but willing to use whatever methods necessary) can take you very far.
In fact, the propaganda is already up and running - they say Facebook is a cheap buy now. The marketing has started to prevent further collapse. I have a friend who has made a truckload of money with Facebook stock over the years...
Reply to Purple Pond People will tell you how long their dick is or how capacious their vagina, what shocking thing they really want someone to do to them sexually, why they hate their parents and want to kill them, What secrets they stole from the CIA and sold to China, how many times they have sex with teenagers, etc.
Last night, I was reading Stephen Hawking's book The Grand Design. I could not read more than 10-15 pages, and after that, I threw the book out the window. When Hawking started saying things like:
The philosopher Epicurus (341 BC - 270 BC), for example, opposed atomism on the grounds that it is "better to follow the myths about the gods than to become a 'slave' to the destiny of natural philosophers".
I could not read anymore. How is it possible for such egregious mistakes to crop up in the work of a world-renowned scientist? I mean even a philosophy undergraduate could easily tell him that Epicurus did not oppose atomism...
Last night, I was reading Stephen Hawking's book The Grand Design. I could not read more than 10-15 pages, and after that, I threw the book out the window. When Hawking started saying things like:
The philosopher Epicurus (341 BC - 270 BC), for example, opposed atomism on the grounds that it is "better to follow the myths about the gods than to become a 'slave' to the destiny of natural philosophers".
I could not read anymore. How is it possible for such egregious mistakes to crop up in the work of a world-renowned scientist? I mean even a philosophy undergraduate could easily tell him that Epicurus did not oppose atomism...
Last night I was reading the Bible. I could not read more than 1 page, and after that, I threw the book out the window. When it started saying things like:
"she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit".
I could not read it anymore. How is it possible for such egregious mistakes to crop up? I mean even a biology undergraduate could easily tell you that this isn't how babies are made.
I could not read it anymore. How is it possible for such egregious mistakes to crop up? I mean even a biology undergraduate could easily tell you that this isn't how babies are made.
Don't know what that involves, but I don't see what extra features we need in the Shoutbox. There are almost 20,000 posts here and there's been only one useful one that I can remember—when Hanover convinced @Posty McPostface not to buy a gun. At least, it's not like the vast majority of it deserves a second look. What problem are we trying to solve?
Yes, that was literarily in the first paragraph of the book. But that in-itself is not a problem. It's a statement that has to be argued for and investigated. Saying untruths about philosophy isn't going to work though.
Did I inadvertently insult the spirit of the Shoutbox or something.. ?
Anyway, there is generally more quality elsewhere. For two excellent examples, look no further than fdrake's discussion on Debord and Street's on proteins and politics. You won't find that level in the Shoutbox.
Anyway, there is generally more quality elsewhere. For two excellent examples, look no further than fdrake's discussion on Debord and Street's on proteins and politics. You won't find that level in the Shoutbox.
We've had good discussions here, too. I've just had to painstakingly split the comments off elsewhere.
No worries. Feel free to continue to bring up any suggestions you think might help. Emojis just got updated though, so probably not going to change for a while.
But seriously, if you're reading the Grand Design to get a history lesson on philosophy then you're doing it wrong.
No, but if one is going to make a critique of philosophy and claim that philosophy is dead, and instead we should look to science, then they should at least show that they understand philosophy, have engaged with it, and then show how they have determined it to be useless.
Last night I was reading the Bible. I could not read more than 1 page, and after that, I threw the book out the window. When it started saying things like:
"she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit".
I could not read it anymore. How is it possible for such egregious mistakes to crop up? I mean even a biology undergraduate could easily tell you that this isn't how babies are made.
Except that the Bible doesn't claim that that is how babies are made GENERALLY. That is an exception.
Come on, dude, I was just setting up the joke. I've probably written hundreds of posts here which I've almost instantly forgotten. That's what the Sb is for.
With you on that; even with the ones I like, I usually regret watching. There's something horribly intrusive about movies that no amount of critical thought can overcome.
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 22, 2018 at 16:53#1653920 likes
With you on that; even with the ones I like, I usually regret watching. There's something horribly intrusive about movies that no amount of critical thought can overcome.
Yes, that is another thing. They really do mess with your brain, to the point I need recovery time after watching something like a horror movie :rofl: I find nothing enjoyable in all this.
You know what I'd do? Just don't get up - screw it! Go to one of those Thai doctors, get a note that you're ill, have a day off, relax, smoke a cigar... No stress.
Damn. I knew the news about my employer was bad, but the latest news is even worse. It's got me thinking about jumping ship, before it sinks, and maybe looking for a job at a competitor.
Botched takeover a few years back. Massive losses. One option on the table is to close down the operation and exit the market, meaning I'd be out of a job. Will find out more in June, but don't know if I want to stick around too long after what I've just been reading.
If he orders a strike then it has to be carried out, correct?
Yes and no. These are limit situations. Anything can happen at that point.
My point really was that there were multiple voices within the White House that were pro-war with North Korea (for example) even before this new addition.
What happened to parts 4 and 5 of Channel 4's exposé of CA? Seems all mention of them have been removed from their website. The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that they were about Brexit and the General Election, and the government managed to get an injunction on them.
Has sex with Trump while he's married in the famous "love" bungalow.
Feels guilty & sad about it, but continues the affair.
Loved Trump and thought Trump loves her back.
Doesn't really want to tell her story, but tells it anyway.
Is upset that the people who bought her story didn't make her into a star as they had promised.
Is now a good Christian, going back to Church.
Umm... what? :chin: :brow:
Was it in the lounge? I haven't seen the thread, but from the title, it doesn't seem "worthless". Though there are some legal privacy issues under the EU GDPR with storing personal data (especially racial profiles, etc.) like that on your database. So from that side of it maybe you do have a point (though again, the information would be randomised, as I suppose you don't store information with regards to who voted what in the polls).
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 23, 2018 at 14:23#1657750 likes
Well, that was an option, but entire discussions are judged on their posts, so if the majority of posts are inconsequential, the discussion is likely to be deleted. It's not a discussion we really need to have anyway, is it? What next? What height are you? What's your favorite color? We've probably had enough of that sort of thing.
Honestly, I wouldnt be surprised. Anyway, feel free to ask stuff like this here in the Shoutbox, folks, but we don't need whole discussions on these issues.
Why not? Baden has proven that he is the most handsome guy here, he used to be a male model, no joke - and then he became a philosopher. :joke: He posted about his transformation.
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 23, 2018 at 15:49#1658220 likes
One time I did sleep with a homosexual in the same bed. I had no other choice. But no sexy time :rofl: And no, I am not attracted to the same sex, to answer your question.
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 23, 2018 at 16:08#1658450 likes
I am quite certain that if you feel a submarine probing around the valleys you will be aware, whether you are asleep or not. Maybe you have more experience with this and can confirm my thoughts?
But anyway, even my girlfriend at that time wasn't upset that I had to sleep like that. In fact, she even said, with girls you are not allowed, but with guys, you can do whatever you want :lol:
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 23, 2018 at 16:14#1658510 likes
Just watched "Miller's Crossing." Gabriel Byrne, Albert Finney, Marsha Gay Harden, John Tuturro, lots more. Cohen brothers. What a wonderful movie. Love the Cohen Bros. Raising Arizona, Fargo, Intolerable Cruelty, Big Labowski, more.
Where exactly do "Word of the Day", "The Last Word", and "The Shoutbox" intersect? In particular, I've never quite understood the nuances of "The Last Word". It seems inherently self-defeating, while "The Shoutbox" and "Word of the Day" seem infinite.
Why is Quillette obsessed with race realism, and why do they, regardless of contributor, trot out the same bunk pseudo-scientific research? What a curious magazine.
Reply to Maw If you don't like it why do you keep reading it? Personally, I found it quite good, as did, from memory, Bitter Crank, who if I remember correctly first recommended it. We have quite different politics, so I don't think it's just a matter of that.
Reply to Agustino Why would I not read an increasingly popular and influential magazine advocating politics and ideas I disagree with? Should I just read things I already agree with?
Why would I not read an increasingly popular and influential magazine advocating politics and ideas I disagree with? Should I just read things I already agree with?
Disagreeing with what you read is fine, I often do that too. However, disagreeing is different than disliking it. If you dislike something, then I don't see why put yourself through it. And from your initial comment it sounded to me like you don't merely disagree with Quillette, but you dislike it (obviously I may be wrong about that, just an impression).
Reply to Agustino I only dislike it because I thing they advocate harmful, wrong ideas, which they attempt to dress up as politically neutral, and innocuous. Take, for example, this article on Charles Murray, who authored the highly controversial book, The Bell Curve, on IQ disparity between races, which was, and continues to be, widely denounced within the appropriate scientific circles. The author of the article, after defending the reality of IQ disparity between whites and blacks as a biological-based fact, goes on to say:
Of course, we understand that many people have legitimate concerns about studying race differences. It is true that bigoted people might use data about race and IQ to support nefarious political agendas, buttressing their own prejudices with scientific sounding arguments. However, the way to address this danger is not by distorting previous research or publicly attacking scholars who investigate this issue. Rather, it is by promoting the vision of society that Martin Luther King, Jr. advocated decades ago, one in which people are judged by their actions and the content of their characters and not by the average traits of a group (ethnic, political, religious, or otherwise).
Which is profoundly absurd and naive. Scientific research, whether bunk or not, has always been leveraged by political groups for incendiary purposes, promote and defend toxic ideas, whether merely personal or public policy. The author claims they "might use data about race"? Might? Murray's book has been cited for 25 years to advocate racial differences between groups, and it's naive to think that would magically change. And that the author seemingly thinks that MLK would be fine with this racial realism strikes me as ineffably absurd. It's also curious that the author provides no further information on how we can "promote" such a vision of society, which would strike me as paramount if race realism and disparity were true.
I only dislike it because I thing they advocate harmful, wrong ideas, which they attempt to dress up as politically neutral, and innocuous.
Okay, I see. Well, let's take the issue the article addresses, racial differences in IQ which are grounded in one's biology. Suppose (I'm not claiming that this is the case) that it was proved, beyond any reasonable doubt, that black people, on average, have a lower IQ than white people that is of biological origin. What would follow from that, and how should we organise our society in light of that fact?
Personally, I would say that nothing should follow from it. I cannot judge a particular black person based on statistics that describe average properties of all black people. That particular black person may not be average, he could be exceptionally intelligent, etc. So for all practical considerations, when we're deciding who to hire as a professor (for example), we cannot make appeals to such statistics to racially discriminate, but must rather judge people individually. Would you agree with this?
I suppose there may be some situations where companies and institutions would seek to accept a higher percentage of white applicants compared to blacks, merely because statistically one group has a higher IQ than another. I think this ought to remain illegal personally since it is discrimination - they have no way of knowing if the particular subpopulation of blacks that apply have the same characteristics as the population of blacks as a whole (they may not - perhaps only the more intelligent black people are applying).
Personally I have not decided this particular issue, and I don't think it's very relevant to decide it. I do think there are biological differences between races, sexes, etc. What these differences are is of less interest to me, since I don't see what I'd do with them if I knew them. I can say, for example, that white skin is a lot more sensitive to sunlight and is much likelier to get skin cancer. I don't see why such differences couldn't extend to intellectual capacities, physical ones, etc.
Although, even if they do, I don't see how that is pernicious in and of itself. What we would need to prevent is abuse of these statistics in order to justify oppression. For example, if someone said that white skin is inferior, because of its greater predisposition to cancer, and we ought to try to eliminate it from the world, I would see that as racist, and an abuse of statistics in order to justify oppression.
Personally, I would say that nothing should follow from it....Would you agree with this?
I do, but the problem is that there are individuals, groups, movements, companies etc. some in greater positions of power than others, why may not. Steven Pinker wrote in The Better Angels Of Our Nature that, “the fact that a hypothesis is politically uncomfortable does not mean that it is false, but it does mean that we should consider the evidence very carefully before concluding that it is true," and it seems abundantly clear to me that contributors and promoters to these kinds of scientific racism hypotheses do not seriously weigh-in opposing evidence, and rather shrug their shoulders, naively.
Reply to Baden It's rather astonishing for me, because despite reading many different articles, I've feel I've been reading the same article over and over again.
I do, but the problem is that there are individuals, groups, movements, companies etc. some in greater positions of power than others, why may not.
Okay, so what do you reckon should be done about that? Is it really the most effective solution to combat it by saying "it's definitely not a scientific fact", knowing that, after all, we may be wrong? (it is, in the end, an empirical issue) Wouldn't it be an even stronger victory for the other side, if, after everything, they are proven right, and we basically agreed with their basic presuppositions (namely that if these differences are real, then certain political actions need to follow) through the way we sought to combat them?
I think people need to be better educated in critical thinking. On top of that, the unimportance of biological differences, whatever they are, in deciding political & social issues should be emphasised. The importance of treating each person as an individual is another important factor. That, in my opinion, is the most effective way to combat oppression that can result across racial lines.
To be honest, I really don't even see why we should allow funds to be spent in studying racial differences in intelligence :s - like what even is the point of that... What will we do with all that data, supposing we do get a final answer? One side would say we will put an end to racism, and the other will say that it will justify racism. I think that we need to move beyond both of these positions, which I think are quite superficial, and quite honestly based on anxiety.
Okay, so what do you reckon should be done about that? Is it really the most effective solution to combat it by saying "it's definitely not a scientific fact", knowing that, after all, we may be wrong? (it is, in the end, an empirical issue) Wouldn't it be an even stronger victory for the other side, if, after everything, they are proven right, and we basically agreed with their basic presuppositions (namely that if these differences are real, then certain political actions need to follow) through the way we sought to combat them?
The most effective solution is for the appropriate scientific community to promote the research showing that deleterious racial stereotypes are not valid, and denouncing the scientific research that promotes it (e.g. Charles Murray, Wade, Harpending et al.) while highlighting that it is fraught with misinformation, leaps of logic, etc. I think it a good extent, this is already being done.
The most effective solution is for the appropriate scientific community to promote the research showing that deleterious racial stereotypes are not valid, and denouncing the scientific research that promotes it (e.g. Charles Murray, Wade, Harpending et al.) while highlighting that it is fraught with misinformation, leaps of logic, etc. I think it a good extent, this is already being done.
Okay, so what happens in case that, future scientific research reveals that there are biological differences in IQ between the races in a way that is deemed at that point in time to be conclusive? All hell breaks loose? Oppression becomes justified?
I'm not very confident personally in this strategy, since it depends on issues that are in the end empirical, and could be different. I have always preferred to adopt strategies that are not tied to empirical issues that could be otherwise. To me, oppression cannot be justified by biological differences, and no empirical issue or finding could change this.
Okay, so what happens in case that, future scientific research reveals that there are biological differences in IQ between the races in a way that is deemed at that point in time to be conclusive?
Given what we know about genetic research and data already, I sincerely doubt this speculative future will happen. We can certainly continue to promote people as individuals rather merely as members of groups, but in practice, people blur the lines for better or worse. Identity provides meaning, and it's panglossian to believe that we can exclusively think of others, our ourselves, as individuals only, and not part of wider circles, which is why I think your view would be limitedly effective.
Well, we do want to retain our living voters so we can win a vote honestly instead of voting Chicago style where you do so at least three times. Once for you, one for Great Granny and one for Aunt Beth who both passed away years ago but are still on the voting records.
Having said that Frank, you would be SURPRISED how many members of The Philosophy Forum of 1k + members do NOT know CPR.
@Sapientia can't be a frog, he's an owl. @Hanover can't be the frog either... he's a lizard. The @CuddlyHedgehog is, well, a hedgehog. The only other person I had a debate with recently is @Bitter Crank. Are you a frog BC?
But they never last. People just jump on them so fast the posters just quit. Some of us are not very philosophical. I'd like to get in a civil discussion with an intelligent and sincere Rand supporter, but it won't ever happen here. Randism is not Nazism.
Well, I sent a PM to the poster and said he was welcome to post again without the blog and he responded positively but then he didn't. So far anyway. PM him if you like. I don't know. Rand isn't very popular. Mostly for good reasons. So, if a discussion is started there is likely to be some harsh criticism. But yes, certainly not Nazism.
Well, I sent a PM to the poster and said he was welcome to post again without the blog and he responded positively but then he didn't. So far anyway. PM him if you like. I don't know. Rand isn't very popular. Mostly for good reasons. So, if a discussion is started there is likely to be some harsh criticism. But yes, certainly not Nazism.
Wasn't complaining about your action re/ the blog. Just expressing frustration about not being able to have a reasoned discussion about Rand. Not a moderation problem. Well, maybe a moderation problem, but not a moderator problem.
On gun control, Republicans have little choice but to say stuff like that. The NRA gives them ratings like they're a bunch of naughty schoolchildren. Should they stray even slightly from absolute submission, they lose their A+'s and a significant proportion of their base.
I am an expert only at the mouth-to-mouth resuscitation part
Agustino, the current idea for hands only CPR is Chest compressions without mouth to mouth, though there are limitations.
I remember when this idea first came on the scene when we were at the lake house for the summers. Powerful knowledge saves lives. To help a drowning victim
Before CPR came around, back when Boy Scouts learned the arm lift/back push method, I did that on a cocker spaniel who had bitten through an electrical chord. He was fine, although I think he would have been ok without my efforts.
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff Chest compression, mouth to mouth, old fashioned approaches -- the failure rate under good circumstances is about 90%. That means that 9 out of 10 people who look like they are just about dead, actually are just about dead, in fact. Despite the best efforts of amateurs and late-arriving professionals, they are highly likely to continue on their merry way to the hereafter. Even in an ER or OR, quite often the dead stay dead.
Reply to T Clark You and your boy scout training may not have helped, but I am sure the cocker spaniel was eternally grateful. Did it learn anything from the experience? Like, maybe those long thin things on the floor should be left alone?
You and your boy scout training may not have helped, but I am sure the cocker spaniel was eternally grateful. Did it learn anything from the experience? Like, maybe those long thin things on the floor should be left alone?
I don't know if he learned anything, but I never saw him do it again.
Chest compression, mouth to mouth, old fashioned approaches -- the failure rate under good circumstances is about 90%.
I was an emergency medical technician on my town's ambulance for 25 years. I probably did CPR 15 times and no one ever lived, but normally, we got there 10 minutes after the call came in. Who knows how long before that the attack took place. If it's going to work, it has to start right away.
I am an expert only at the mouth-to-mouth resuscitation part. :rofl:
[quote="Buzz Killington";166499"]Agustino, the current idea for hands only CPR is Chest compressions without mouth to mouth, though there are limitations.
I remember when this idea first came on the scene when we were at the lake house for the summers. Powerful knowledge saves lives. To help a drowning victim[/quote]
My cat ate the string that held together the roast and only a small part was still in her mouth when I reached down her throat and pulled what seemed to be all the way into her stomach. Thank God I saved that meaty tasty string.
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 25, 2018 at 22:33#1665340 likes
My cat ate the string that held together the roast and only a small part was still in her mouth when I reached down her throat and pulled what seemed to be all the way into her stomach. Thank God I saved that meaty tasty string.
Hanover, the current idea for animal welfare is that the lives of cats are of greater importance than the retrieval of meaty string, no matter how tasty it may be.
Watching Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. Fourth time. Original BBC from 1979. Alec Guiness. Best thing ever filmed. Videod, Best thing ever. Best movie, best TV. Best.
Harikrishna nairMarch 26, 2018 at 04:45#1665780 likes
Reply to Agustino sorry but i have got another hamster friend,wasn't intending you. by the way, there's nobody replacing you.i.e the origjnal hamster? i guess i didn't know
Did we discuss this already? Loved the recent movie with Gary Oldman, but haven't seen the OG TV series. It's just a generational thing, I think, but I need to check the series out, do love Alec Guinness, of course. But you should watch the movie as well. Maybe we can trade. Actually, Oldman's performance isn't even the best performance in that movie; Tom Hardy steals the show with a supporting role, and there's so many other great performances. I have a thing for espionage, for some reason.
Did we discuss this already? Loved the recent movie with Gary Oldman, but haven't seen the OG TV series. It's just a generational thing, I think, but I need to check the series out, do love Alec Guinness, of course. But you should watch the movie as well. Maybe we can trade. Actually, Oldman's performance isn't even the best performance in that movie; Tom Hardy steals the show with a supporting role, and there's so many other great performances. I have a thing for espionage, for some reason.
Yes, we did discuss it before. It's just that I'm watching it gain and loving it again and wanted to tell someone again.
Reply to Hanover 30 and 2 breaths. The speed is "ah ah ah ah, staying alive, staying alive" from the BeeGees. or if you're morbid "duh duh duh duh, another one bites the dust" by Queen.
unenlightenedMarch 26, 2018 at 12:23#1666270 likes
Reply to Benkei I see. So what I've been doing is I hold the victim's nose, offer three quick thrusts, remove my hand and allow her a quick gasp, and I continue repeating through to conclusion. Once concluded, I carefully tip the head back with my right hand and say, "Night night Punkin."
While it has been entirely ineffective for cardiac arrest, I have found it effective for curing hiccups.
I'm sure now that after the Stormy Daniels 60 Minutes episode, the left will be clamoring for their "wife of the blowjob President" to be the logical moral thwart to Trump's sexual deviance...
Reply to Mr Phil O'Sophy You are not excused. My amusement and enlightenment derived from your posts is more important than your uni courses. Quite absurd, really, you thinking your university courses could possibly be more important than ME.
That podcast came up as a recommendation on my podcast app. I wasn't expecting all that much but it's actually pretty good. Listening to episode 124 now.
Actually, all you have to do is understand that the head of the frog is the nose of the horse. Then you will see it.
Oh fer ducks sake! I never saw the frog and until @Agustino pointed it out! Here I was going to change my avatar to have a horse in it but alas it is not meant to be.
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 27, 2018 at 12:01#1668220 likes
Reply to CuddlyHedgehog lol I mean in a serious way. Many people have a hard time wrapping their heads around speciation because we have fairly limited examples of it happening contemporaneously.
What do you say or show someone who doesn't believe that evolution results in new species?
Do you have a good reason for believing that it does? I believe that all living organisms on Earth are related to each other genetically through a common ancestor, but I don't know if I can make a convincing case. It strikes me that explaining to someone why you believe something is true is more convincing than explaining why it is true. More respectful. Less aggressive.
First - establish cosmological/geological time. If they don't believe that the Earth has been around for 5 billion years, give or take, the rest is pointless. This strikes me as the really hard part. Seems like if you could get that, the rest would be relatively easy.
What do you say or show someone who doesn't believe that evolution results in new species?
Tell them to read Darwin's Origin of Species. It is a well conceived, beautifully written book, and still relevant after 150 years.
I've done it cover to cover twice.
If for no other reason than the fact that the English is so great to read - shew them the book.
Tell them to read Darwin's Origin of Species. It is a well conceived, beautifully written book, and still relevant after 150 years.
Would you be willing to read the Bible and give it a fair hearing? I don't think that's likely from people on either side of this discussion. Origin of Species is not the kind of book that would convince a firm disbeliever. Also, there are things in there that are no longer part of mainstream biology. I was really surprised when I read to find that Darwin described inheritance of acquired characteristics as one of the possible mechanisms of evolution. It is also my understanding that Darwin's emphasis of natural variation of characteristics within a species as the primary source of variation for natural selection is no longer accepted.
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 27, 2018 at 23:06#1669740 likes
I was really surprised when I read to find that Darwin described inheritance of acquired characteristics as one of the possible mechanisms of evolution.
. It is also my understanding that Darwin's emphasis of natural variation of characteristics within a species as the primary source of variation for natural selection is no longer accepted.
Inheritance of acquired characteristics - Lamarckism - is generally described as an explanation for evolution that was supplanted by natural selection. I have read a fair amount about Darwin, evolution, and natural selection, and no one ever mentioned it.
When I read OoS, Darwin's description made a lot of sense to me. The naturally occurring variation in a species provided the range of behaviors needed for natural selection to act. I thought I understood. I was recently reading "What is Life" by Edwin Schrodinger, the physicist. It was written in 1944 and was very influential. He indicated that Darwin had been wrong, that it is not natural variation, but mutation, that provides targets for natural selection. That seems like a pretty significant error in Darwin's theory. I haven't had time to track it down yet.
I gave it a fair hearing and it still sounds like make-believe rubbish.
It seems like you probably aren't capable of giving a theistic explanation an open mind. I don't have any problem with that. Why would you expect a theist to be more [s]open minded[/s] sympathetic than you are.
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 28, 2018 at 00:35#1669910 likes
I was recently reading "What is Life" by Edwin Schrodinger, the physicist. It was written in 1944 and was very influential. He indicated that Darwin had been wrong, that it is not natural variation, but mutation, that provides targets for natural selection. That seems like a pretty significant error in Darwin's theory. I haven't had time to track it down yet.
Howdie, T.
Mutation, if it doesn’t lead to death, leads to one form of natural variation. Darwin hadn’t yet learned about Mendel’s work on inheritance (inferred genes via peapod experiments) when we wrote his theses. Still, say that Aleister Crowly had offspring. They’d all be different (some arguments on identical twins being different or identical as product of interaction with differing life-long first-person contexts, but most animals aren’t identical twins anyway … still, you do have lifeforms that reproduce mainly asexually, so that offspring are genetically identical to the parent if not for mutations and the occasional sexual hookup; but even (some?) bacteria exchange genes in an odd uni-sexual kind of way). Getting back to Al, some of his kids would be taller and some shorter, and so on. If they can all survive and reproduce, these variations would then be further passed down in a somewhat complex way (receive traits can skip generations, etc.). But say that Al did a magic spell that accidently made all doors in the world rather short and, furthermore, that the people that couldn’t walk through these short doors while fully upright got turned into toilet drinking, neutered/spayed dogs. (In ordinary life, haphazard things sometimes happen to environments and their niches, after all; just that Al Crowly can safely be inferred to not be responsible for most of it, at least). Al would then only have short grandkids, and a possibly large amount of dogs. OK, my example might be more complex and fictional than it need be. To sum up, though, just because there’s genetic inheritance and mutations to genes doesn’t then in the least make natural variations a non-factor to biological evolution—for, again, mutations are one element that leads to natural variations. Viva la diferanse! (and croissants)
Asking a physicist about biology is like asking a biologist about physics, I’m thinking. That’s why we have philosophers: to confuse us about all fields of science all at once. :razz:
The Lamarckian trend in Darwin’s writing, btw, was most notable in his “Expression of the Emotions in Man and Animals”, and with good reason at the time—an extremely good work by my standards, btw, especially if one is into the topic of behavioral evolution.
I gave it a fair hearing and it still sounds like make-believe rubbish.
That might have something to do with much of it being fiction. But it's far from rubbish, as a whole, in my opinion, as well as that of many, many others. It contains some of the best fiction ever written, as well as some rubbish parts which could do with being left out of the final cut.
1 The words of the Teacher,[a] son of David, king in Jerusalem:
2 “Meaningless! Meaningless!”
says the Teacher.
“Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless.”
3 What do people gain from all their labors
at which they toil under the sun?
I've read most of the Bible, skipping or skimming around here and there. I took classes as an undergrad on both the Tanakh and the New Testament. Most parts of the Bible are tremendously boring, other parts are fairly insightful or interesting, such as Song of Songs, or Job, or Mark or Revelations.
I've read most of the Bible, skipping or skimming around here and there. I took classes as an undergrad on both the Tanakh and the New Testament. Most parts of the Bible are tremendously boring, other parts are fairly insightful or interesting, such as Song of Songs, or Job, or Mark or Revelations.
Yeah I agree, most of it is fairly boring. Which is why I took more of a liking to the Greek myths, as a kid. Much more action.
It's boring to a non-Jewish western reader because we're not familiar with the culture. A commensurate knowledge of the bible as a whole comes from different disciplines; knowledge of the cultures, of Hebrew poetry, of the evolution of Rabbinic tradition and how that plays into interpretations of both the OT and the NT, and an intuition for both philosophical wisdom set against the cultural time, as well as the nature of religious revelation. A willfully anthropologically atheistic reading of any scripture will naturally render it either boring, or a nice historical document to hem and haw over in a nice safe academic setting where any moral or philosophical implications are safely irrelevant.
Chapter 1 of Chronicles 1 is my favorite and far from boring:
"The Descendants of the Sons of Noah
5 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras. 6 And the sons of Gomer; Ashchenaz, and Riphath, [1] and Togarmah. 7 And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. [2] 8 The sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, Put, and Canaan. 9 And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabta, and Raamah, and Sabtecha. And the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan. 10 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be mighty upon the earth. 11 And Mizraim begat Ludim, and Anamim, and Lehabim, and Naphtuhim, 12 And Pathrusim, and Casluhim, (of whom came the Philistines,) and Caphthorim. 13 And Canaan begat Zidon his firstborn, and Heth, 14 The Jebusite also, and the Amorite, and the Girgashite, 15 And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite, 16 And the Arvadite, and the Zemarite, and the Hamathite. 17 The sons of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram, and Uz, and Hul, and Gether, and Meshech. [3] 18 And Arphaxad begat Shelah, and Shelah begat Eber. 19 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of the one was Peleg; [4] because in his days the earth was divided: and his brother's name was Joktan. 20 And Joktan begat Almodad, and Sheleph, and Hazarmaveth, and Jerah, 21 Hadoram also, and Uzal, and Diklah, 22 And Ebal, and Abimael, and Sheba, 23 And Ophir, and Havilah, and Jobab. All these were the sons of Joktan."
Reply to Noble Dust Raised Conservative Judaism, not too religious of a household, all things considered. Mixed cheese and meat, ate lobster etc., but couldn't have bacon, attended synagogue occasionally as a kid, but had to attend each week in preparation for my Bar Mitzvah (ugh). My mother became an atheist a few years ago, my younger brother recently came out as agnostic, and my father is still religious. Interestingly, I am a Kohen.
Interesting. I'm not Jewish, but the reading I've done on the religion/people in conjunction with what I know about the Bible (from a conservative Evangelical upbringing) has, and still makes scripture pretty interesting, although I haven't read it in over a year or so. Didn't mean to assume anything about your background or knowledge of those things. If you found it boring, then you found it boring. But there's more there, if one is willing to look. And I'm saying that as a former Christian.
Actually, it's funny to hear folks say how boring the bible is, versus any given philosophical text...but anyways.
Getting back to Al, some of his kids would be taller and some shorter, and so on. If they can all survive and reproduce, these variations would then be further passed down in a somewhat complex way (receive traits can skip generations, etc.).
It is my understanding, maybe, that this isn't true.
To sum up, though, just because there’s genetic inheritance and mutations to genes doesn’t then in the least make natural variations a non-factor to biological evolution—for, again, mutations are one element that leads to natural variations. Viva la diferanse! (and croissants)
It is my understanding, maybe, that this isn't true.
So is your lack of response an acknowledgment of my point? That you find the bible boring because you haven't properly studied it, regardless of the fact that your'e a "not too religious" conservative Jew by heritage, and only studied the gist of the OT and the NT itself in college? And appear to be some sort of atheist, based on other threads?
So is your lack of response an acknowledgment of my point?
Lol don't act like an overly attached significant other. I'm not obligated to immediately respond, particularly since it's very late at night (for both of us). I'll respond tomorrow if I remember; too tired for anything else.
It strikes me that explaining to someone why you believe something is true is more convincing than explaining why it is true.
That is essentially what I'm attempting to do, but I've been unimpressed with my ability to succinct and convincing evidence. I was hoping for a link or two.
First - establish cosmological/geological time. If they don't believe that the Earth has been around for 5 billion years, give or take, the rest is pointless. This strikes me as the really hard part. Seems like if you could get that, the rest would be relatively easy.
He says he is no longer a young earth creationist, so that's a start.
Tell them to read Darwin's Origin of Species. It is a well conceived, beautifully written book, and still relevant after 150 years.
The problem with this is that it only documents changes within species and not pure speciation. This person believes evolution is real, but doesn't believe it results in new species.
It's boring to a non-Jewish western reader because we're not familiar with the culture.
It's boring because of, for example:
[quote=Book of Genesis, Chapter 5][5:3] When Adam had lived one hundred thirty years, he became the father of a son in his likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth.
[5:4] The days of Adam after he became the father of Seth were eight hundred years; and he had other sons and daughters.
[5:5] Thus all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred thirty years; and he died.
[5:6] When Seth had lived one hundred five years, he became the father of Enosh.
[5:7] Seth lived after the birth of Enosh eight hundred seven years, and had other sons and daughters.
[5:8] Thus all the days of Seth were nine hundred twelve years; and he died.
[5:9] When Enosh had lived ninety years, he became the father of Kenan.
[5:10] Enosh lived after the birth of Kenan eight hundred fifteen years, and had other sons and daughters.
[5:11] Thus all the days of Enosh were nine hundred five years; and he died.
[5:12] When Kenan had lived seventy years, he became the father of Mahalalel.
[5:13] Kenan lived after the birth of Mahalalel eight hundred and forty years, and had other sons and daughters.
[5:14] Thus all the days of Kenan were nine hundred and ten years; and he died.
[5:15] When Mahalalel had lived sixty-five years, he became the father of Jared.
[5:16] Mahalalel lived after the birth of Jared eight hundred thirty years, and had other sons and daughters.
[5:17] Thus all the days of Mahalalel were eight hundred ninety-five years; and he died.
[5:18] When Jared had lived one hundred sixty-two years he became the father of Enoch.
The problem with this is that it only documents changes within species and not pure speciation. This person believes evolution is real, but doesn't believe it results in new species.
What is his account for the emergence of new species?
Actually Darwin does account for that. If a species is a group of living things that are capable of mating, by definition. Darwin showed that species of tortoise in the Galapagos separated by islands because separated and unable to mate.
If he accepts that species change where does he think all that change leads to? Why were their no humans 65 million years ago?
No, that's not good man. I don't like Hanover, he is a lizard. Owl is much better.
Sorry, no owls are available at the present time. But we do have a special offer, if you're interested. For only $5, Amy Schumer will sit on your face.
I presume this involves myself being paid $5 to allow that to happen. But even so, the reward is not enough because money is always gone in the end, but the memory will persist. So I'm afraid I will have to decline, regardless of the sum.
I want to be Jewish too! I have always felt closer to the Jewish traditions, stereotypes, cuisine to cook and the awesome sense of humor.
But @Benkei told me years ago, as much as I might want to be Jewish I can't be. I said I would be willing to consider converting my faith. NO.
Now Maw, you tell me, can I only dream of being Jewish or can it actually happen in life?
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 28, 2018 at 13:51#1671580 likes
My son Archie arrived today in good health, 2695 gram.
Wooooooooooooo Hoooooooooooooooooo!! CONGRATULATIONS BENKEI!
Shhhhh little Archie is sleeping.......
How did the name Archie come around?
Awwwww I am sooo happy for you!!!
How is your better half? Is she doing well? Do you get time off to be at home with the new baby?
Reply to Noble Dust To answer your question, I find The Bible of general interest as an historically important document. As literature, I find it mostly boring, and I sincerely doubt that's due because of my lack of religion. I don't think "a proper" study of the bible, whatever that might entail, would change my stance. Perhaps finding the Bible interesting is like trying to find God for yourself. You can try all you'd like, but for some it's just not there.
FYI: My son Archie arrived today in good health, 2695 gram.
Lucky boy. Born in the Netherlands. Congratulations. That's like ....23 pounds, right?
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 28, 2018 at 14:23#1671630 likes
Reply to Maw MMm the jokes are a good part of it but so is the philosophy of Jewish men not liking to see their women in pain, which has directed me many times towards the right physician. The ability to use strong words that no one else understands but sound dismissive all the same, there are soo many parts of the Jewish that I adore.
Is there anything more involved?
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 28, 2018 at 14:25#1671640 likes
It is my understanding, maybe, that this isn't true.
So, are you saying that it's not true that the X-Man mutants have variation between them, even though they each have a unique genetic mutation?
More seriously, how can non-lethal mutations logically not lead to genetic variations in a gene pool? Philosophically, that is. But this ties into my question about the X-Man (or X-Men, I forget).
More seriously, how can non-lethal mutations logically not lead to genetic variations in a gene pool?
Here is my understanding - Darwin believed that evolution is driven by the normal variation in traits in organisms. Not mutations, just the bell-curve variation you see in properties governed by chance. Scientists have come to understand that just normal variation will not breed true so you need an actual change in genetic material, a mutation, to move evolution forward.
As I indicated, that is my understanding. I'm not sure it's correct. Here's what Edwin Schrodinger said in "What is Life," written in 1944. That is the source for my understanding. It is on my list to track down and verify.
We know definitely, today, that Darwin was mistaken in regarding the small, continuous, accidental variations, that are bound to occur even in the most homogeneous population, as the material on which natural selection works. For it has been proved that they are not inherited.
By the way, "What is Life" is a wonderful essay. It is available as a PDF on the web, although the version I found has a bunch of transcription errors. I bought a Kindle version for $0.99.
For it has been proved that they are not inherited.
The heck is that supposed to mean??? (Insert emoticon scratching it head) You mean our kids don't inherit our genes? (BTW, Congratulations to, and for, the newborn, Benkei) And this has been proven to not be? How's that suppose to work?
Doesn't make me covet a reading of this PDF.
If the guy would have argued that what Darwin proposed in terms of inheritance is not sufficient, that would then be understandable (there's still some disagreement between gradualism and punctuated equilibrium, for example), but not that its proven that we don't inherit variations with a gene pool from our parents. BTW, even mutations necessarily have to be relatively small and incremental among sexual species at the very least, otherwise the mechanisms of reproduction among sexual organisms couldn't work (never mind that whole finding of a mate attractive thing).
Yes, but that value will greatly increase with time ...
I cannot believe I am saying this but that is the value before it has been "cut" or "stepped on" to lower the potency but line the wallets.
Or....maybe Hanover knew that. :brow: @Hanover does that bucket of fried chicken come with fried gizzards?
(@Benkei Hanover recently disclosed a nip of necrophillia :gasp: )
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 28, 2018 at 17:13#1672160 likes
I want to talk about my Jewishness since other people are. I attended Jewish day school, attended an Orthodox synagogue, had a Bar Mitzvah, kept kosher at home as a kid, didn't eat pork until in my twenties, and now I'm not practicing, but my Judaism shows up in things like my dog's name (Fred Barkowitz). It's sort of like how they killed all the Indians and now there are just a few leftover place names with Indian sounding names. It's exactly like that except mine has to do with a dog and not a place.
It's sort of like how they killed all the Indians and now there are just a few leftover place names with Indian sounding names.
It amazes me how much of the US has place names from the American Indians. It's certainly true in New England. I think I'll do put some Indian place names in as words of the day.
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 28, 2018 at 17:21#1672210 likes
Yesterday I met with my son at college to consult their study abroad administrator. My son wants to go to New Zealand and when he approached the college, they said they had never had a student in their 40 yrs ask to go to New Zealand until now. Within the last day, 2 students have asked to go: my son who is pursing a SS (Simulated Science, gaming and animation) bachlors and the other student is a an AS (Aeronautical Science) bachlors degree. How flipping exciting??? They are aiming for Spring 2019 and once I find out the monies involved, I might be included in that "Aim".
Gotta keep the excitement under control....... :party:
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 28, 2018 at 17:22#1672230 likes
Gizzards are good no matter how you make them as long as you feed them to the dog.
Generally speaking, eating the cleaning systems of another creature is not a good thing to do. Poor Fred :sad: Maybe that is what is turning him demonic? :naughty:
I think there are mostly cannibals in New Zealand.
No, you're confusing New Zealand with places like Sioux City, South Dakota where the Sioux Indians were still being scalped after your parents were born.
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 28, 2018 at 17:28#1672280 likes
Such a soft ball for you Hanover, are you feeling okay?
No, don't let Fred eat the maid because your homeowners insurance would not be happy,[s]certainly not as happy as the maid might be, regardless of species.[/s]
No, you're confusing New Zealand with places like Sioux City, South Dakota where the Sioux Indians were still being scalped after your parents were born.
No one lives in South Dakota, Never has.
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 28, 2018 at 17:29#1672300 likes
Look on the map. It's right under that other state.
Oh and they have one of the seven wonders of the world, which I would like to challenge anyway. What is so flippin amazing of a chisled rock? Diamond cutters do it all day long.
Look on the map. It's right under that other state.
South Dakota has one of my favorite cities - North Sioux City SD. It's across the Big Sioux River from Sioux City Iowa and across the Missouri from South Sioux City Nebraska.
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 28, 2018 at 18:51#1672670 likes
The planet is overpopulated as it is. Why does everyone feel this overwhelming compulsion to pass on their magnificent genes to the next generation?
are you saying I can’t play another one bites the dust at your funeral?
I have already told my children I want them to tell the worst stories about me they can think of at my funeral. I've also asked to be cremated and have my ashes put in the dumpster behind a McDonalds.
Also, once I'm dead, I don't care what you do, but why would you want to make my family feel bad?
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 28, 2018 at 19:57#1673070 likes
When asked how he wished to be buried, he left instructions to be thrown outside the city wall so wild animals could feast on his body. When asked if he minded this, he said, "Not at all, as long as you provide me with a stick to chase the creatures away!" When asked how he could use the stick since he would lack awareness, he replied "If I lack awareness, then why should I care what happens to me when I am dead?"
Reply to Sapientia A bit belated, but thank you. For 20 years I have stewed, having lost a good part of my life to hate and only now I can move on. The burden is lifted. I will now open that dance studio I always dreamed of. Thank you.
A bit belated, but thank you. For 20 years I have stewed, having lost a good part of my life to hate and only now I can move on. The burden is lifted. I will now open that dance studio I always dreamed of. Thank you.
You're welcome. Remind me to congratulate the opening in about twenty years time, when it will have long since closed down, despite your bitter perseverance, and we'll both be dead.
Reply to T Clark The joke was that my friends whose funerals I went to couldn't actually come to mine because they'd be dead.
That being said, you don't actually get an invite to come to a funeral. You sort of hear about it and go or not, but it's not like a wedding where you see it coming and plan the big day.
When I die, I want them to play Hava Nagila on the bag pipes.
https://youtu.be/8Mus-Mcq-so
Reply to T Clark It's not a matter of whether one finds me subjectively amusing. It's that I'm objectively amusing as shown by all objective amusement criteria, including your failure to find me amusing.
Reply to Hanover There's about two views possible on the issue. If that's your idea of diverse thenyou should move to a communist country and enjoy their wide selection in groceries.
South Dakota has one of my favorite cities - North Sioux City SD. It's across the Big Sioux River from Sioux City Iowa and across the Missouri from South Sioux City Nebraska.
I wish I could find the same affinity for South Dakota as you my friend. My first introduction to South Dakota was taking two flights to get there from AZ, one a perfectly good plane, the second was a balsa wood puddle jumper with no bathroom and we could see out the front window. :gasp: No bueno. :angry:
The second introduction was when I asked to use the bathroom (coming from Chicago think indoor plumbing) and I was directed to this wood shack that was over the river and inside was a hole with a toliet seat over it, with a pink fuzzy toliet cover, not just for the lid. :vomit:
Yeah.....no.
Have you ever been to Chicago T Clark? :pray:
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 29, 2018 at 11:58#1675040 likes
Are any of us friends enough to be invited to each other's funerals? Probably not.
You might be surprised. We have lost two members to the other side and both were genuinely mourned and remembered.
As I told @Bitter Crank ya'll better have someone to log onto here and let one of us know that you have passed. You really have no idea how much of a family we are here but you are a member of our family. :heart:
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 29, 2018 at 12:03#1675060 likes
When I die, I want them to play Hava Nagila on the bag pipes.
Ohhh can we do the dance too? We did that dance at every wedding I attended! :clap:
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 29, 2018 at 12:11#1675100 likes
Well Imus just signed off the radio for the last time after being on the air for 49 years. I love the man, I will miss him and I doubt there will be another cowboy like him.
As I told Bitter Crank ya'll better have someone to log onto here and let one of us know that you have passed.
Do not be worried, when I die, I plan to make sure there will be a great celebration, the world over. I will arrange for all of you to be invited. No more of this crying, death too should be a moment of celebration as the fulfilment of the natural cycle. There is something disgusting and wormish about a man who is so attached to life that he cannot let go.
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 29, 2018 at 12:24#1675180 likes
There is something disgusting and wormish about a man who is so attached to life that he cannot let go.
And what about the people who don't want him to go but he is actively making decisions to go anyway? Say for instance, a man who needs a CAT scan to see if he has had a stroke but refuses. Why? It's noninvasive and with an Oxygen saturation rate of 96%, a perfectly paced heart and lungs that are as clear as a bell, yet the man gasps for every breath.
And what about the people who don't want him to go but he is actively making decisions to go anyway?
Well I do not know about who this "him" is, so can't really give you my thoughts, but as with regards to me, I will go when my time comes, I have no part to play in it. I have no reason to go away, I love life, I will stay as much as possible. And I am not a quitter. Only God decides when to call us back.
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 29, 2018 at 12:28#1675220 likes
He is my step Dad here in AZ who has refused three Doctor's orders in one day to go to the ER for a CAT scan to see if it's in his brain. I agree it is between God and him but he can accelerate the process.
Yeah, I've seen many people like that. My father is very similar in attitude to that, whenever it comes to doctors and medical treatments. Many of those people do not understand the medical procedures and are afraid of them, or don't trust them. Or they just want the struggle to be over, they're sick of it. And they're afraid to deal with the problem, they want to run away from it as much as possible. It takes great strength, psychological strength, not to run from problems, but face them head-on, regardless of what happens to remain determined to solve them, to go to the very end. And you can only face problems alone, ultimately.
What is the "Events" button on the menu here? :chin:
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 29, 2018 at 12:39#1675280 likes
Reply to Agustino He has become deathly afraid of hospitals and refuses to be admitted back into one. I told him there are independent CAT scan places that are not attached to a hospital that he can go to where there is no chance of admission.
My Mom asked him to go for her and he said "No". Which flares my need to protect my Mom from any man in her life (Divorce hangover that I have manged to tamp down with this Dad) so I finally called him. I told him how much I love him and asked him to go to an independent place and he said "No". A
And that's when I got a bit bent out of shape because my Mom's AFIB is acting up as a result of the stress and THAT is not okay. I told him if he decides to not go to the Doc that it is going to and is stressing Mom and if you don't give a fuck about yourself, that is your choice. But to have your wishes put Mom's health at risk as a result? That I am not going to just stand by and watch. We would be TOTALLY fucked if Mom had a stroke and he would have to depend on me to help both of them.
Good God, please just take the damn picture already.
Because if you don't? .........
What is the "Events" button on the menu here? :chin:
They have put it there for when my funeral will have to be announced - it will be a big party, and everyone needs to come. They put it many many years in advance, just so that nobody forgets that the party is yet to come. :lol:
He has become deathly afraid of hospitals and refuses to be admitted back into one.
Naturally, they are not great places, anywhere in the world. You go into the hospital healthy, and come out sicker than you've ever went in. Hospitals really are disgusting places - here the rooms smell like piss, nobody cleans the patients, just let them rot there, like corpses. They stay for hours on end, the people who cannot go to the toilet themselves, with their poop in their pants. And of course they get infected, the skin gets irritated, etc.
A
And that's when I got a bit bent out of shape because my Mom's AFIB is acting up as a result of the stress and THAT is not okay. I told him if he decides to not go to the Doc that it is going to and is stressing Mom and if you don't give a fuck about yourself, that is your choice. But to have your wishes put Mom's health at risk as a result? That I am not going to just stand by and watch. We would be TOTALLY fucked if Mom had a stroke and he would have to depend on me to help both of them.
Good God, please just take the damn picture already.
Because if you don't? .........
Right, the emotions are understandable, but then, we cannot really depend emotionally on other people. If he doesn't want to go, that's that. His decision ultimately has to be respected. Your mother is probably attached to him so obviously she is very stressed, and it's difficult to say. But think from his perspective - you are barely hanging onto life, and these people do not want to leave you alone, now you are responsible for them too, on top of everything you have to face. It is extremely rude, I don't know if you see it. If you tell another person "my stress is your fault, you are killing me", I think that is not right. On top of the pressure they already have to face, you add the pressure of responsibility. A person in that position cannot be held responsible.
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff And really, I think the more you try to convince such a person, the more reticent they become. You just have to acknowledge that it is their wish. Then, over time, maybe they themselves will say let's go. But I don't think trying to force them to make that decision, pressuring them, or blaming them for other people's problems will be of much help.
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 29, 2018 at 12:57#1675400 likes
Right, the emotions are understandable, but then, we cannot really depend emotionally on other people. If he doesn't want to go, that's that. His decision ultimately has to be respected. Your mother is probably attached to him so obviously she is very stressed, and it's difficult to say. But think from his perspective - you are barely hanging onto life, and these people do not want to leave you alone, now you are responsible for them too, on top of everything you have to face. It is extremely rude, I don't know if you see it. If you tell another person "my stress is your fault, you are killing me", I think that is not right. On top of the pressure they already have to face, you add the pressure of responsibility. A person in that position cannot be held responsible.
Sorry, even after the second read through the tears are falling too heavy to read the damn screen
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 29, 2018 at 12:59#1675410 likes
I don't think trying to force them to make that decision, pressuring them, or blaming them for other people's problems will be of much help.
He obviously does not give a damn about those he is leaving behind. I will be seeing him Saturday and I am such a loose cannon right now, we could easily go at it. But if not now, when?
He obviously does not give a damn about those he is leaving behind.
It is not his fault, in that position you reckon you would give a damn? First you must take care of yourself, before you can take care of others. He's not in a position where he can care for himself. I know that you are upset because this is hurting your mother. Have you tried working with your mother so that she feels less stressed about the situation? It sounds like it may be more productive to help your mother deal with the stress rather than try to convince him...
I will be seeing him Saturday and I am such a loose cannon right now, we could easily go at it. But if not now, when?
He is already having a hard time, why make it harder for him? It will not make things better for your mother. All this tension of trying to convince him is also stressful. What will you gain by releasing your tension and anger on him? Nothing will change. It's not like if you start shouting at him, crying, etc. you will convince him.
Have you tried working with your mother so that she feels less stressed about the situation? It sounds like it may be more productive to help your mother deal with the stress rather than try to convince him...
She is a retired Hospice nurse so I know she knows how this all ends but she cannot seem to logic it through like she could with patients, as this time it is her husband. I have offered help but she says she doesn't need it right now and I believe her because he and I are like oil and water, which is really odd because we have many of the same qualities/faults in ourselves.
Some things are not in our control... Other things take time to resolve. But you must also take care of yourself. Don't forget that - you must not ruin your own health in the process of trying to care for others, because then you won't even be able to care for them anymore. You need to be strong yourself to help others.
You know the situation the best, and you have the intelligence and strength in you to deal with it. Whenever you're asking anyone else "what shall I do?" why do you reckon they know better than you? None of us know, life is a process of grappling in the dark. We often have the illusion that others know, and that makes us feel sort of safe, but the truth is that we still have to struggle after the truth with our own intelligence. I know that you don't know what to do - but neither do we. We are in no better position that you yourself are. That is always the case when you are dealing with a unique and novel problem - no past experience can help you.
But being psychologically open to whatever happens is important. It gives you the strength to see possibilities and make the best decisions. Accepting the vulnerability and the inability to do anything, if that's the case. Because all this tension and anger is just clouding your judgement and not helping you in any way.
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 29, 2018 at 13:31#1675610 likes
Yeah.....no.
Have you ever been to Chicago T Clark?
First off, you might have misunderstood me. The reason North Sioux City is one of my favorites is because it's across the Big Sioux River from Sioux City Iowa and across the Missouri from South Sioux City Nebraska. I've never been to any of them.
My one experience with SD was a fly over in the spring. I remember flying along at 30,000 feet looking down and seeing buildings. Then we flew another 5 before saw anything else human except roads. I also remember flying over a snow line - it was like someone had drawn a line down the middle of the landscape. Farms split in two. White on one side, grey on the other. Beautiful. I like the idea of the Dakotas. I grew up in Delaware, the second smallest state. It has about the same population as ND and SD, but the difference in size is immense.
Yes, I've been to Chicago. Once. I live near Boston, which is podunk compared to real cities. Chicago is a real city. Loved it. One of the things I loved is Meigs field. Flying over this dinky little air field right next to the city on a peninsula on Lake Michigan. Tickled me. I understand it's gone now. I love things that could never be built again but only exist because of history.
You really have no idea how much of a family we are here but you are a member of our family.
I don't have an affinity for social media. I have a hard time relating to people online. I only have a Facebook page under a fake name. I can't look at my children's Facebook pages. It feels like I'm stalking them. So... it's come as a surprise how much forum means to me. How much I've felt my heart going out to people and felt theirs coming back to me. I don't make friends easily, but I've found them here.
So, ok. You can come to my funeral, but you have to come prepared to say bad things about me.
You'd actually be surprised at the diversity of views among Jews on this issue.
I wasn't trying to imply Jews have a monolithic opinion about Israel, only that a Bar Mitzvah is probably not the right place to bring it up.
On the other hand, there is a rule of discussion/argument I try to follow - never get in an argument with someone who cares much more about the issue than you do. They are much more vulnerable than I am in that situation. That's one of the things I like about the forum. We've all agreed we don't have to be too careful with each other.
On the other hand, gracelessness is a fault worth pointing out.
"Justin went into court today, 5 years after his arrest, to plead with the court to lift his bond restrictions. He was asking for permission to go on the internet, to secure a better job. His attorneys reached across the aisle asking the DA's office, once again, to dismiss the case. This time their answer was, offer us a deal. His attorney asked for a Class C misdemeanor, the equivalent of a traffic ticket, and the DA's rejoinder was, a class A misdemeanor with time served and no probation. Justin has wanted this case to be over for years. In the interest of just being done, he signed guilty to a Class A misdemeanor. This means he is not a felon or a terrorist for the rest of his life. He pled guilty to False Report, a catch all misdemeanor. I'm elated that this is over. His whole family is. We're all a little shocked by how this long journey has so abruptly ended. I want to THANK every single one of you who signed this petition, who left comments, who bought t-shirts, ranted about this case on social media, showed up at court, and who stood behind and beside us all these years. We stood up for Freedom of Speech and though we didn't get the victory lap of winning a trial and setting a precedent; Justin won his life back. Thank you, thank you, thank you from all of us. Please don't ever forget, standing up for what's right can be difficult but never give up!!"
All that for making an obvious joke on FB and the DA still wanted the kid to jump through hoops just to cover his own backside. What a low-life.
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 29, 2018 at 15:06#1675840 likes
He made a joke threat about going out and shooting up a kindergarten (terribly bad taste obviously) but marked it as a joke by saying j/k. The injustice system then caught him in its gears and chewed him up for five years.
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 29, 2018 at 15:09#1675860 likes
That's America for you. You get prison term for comments you make on facebook and a slap on the wrist if you shoot someone dead. Reply to Baden
Yes, if he had only raped someone like that Texas kid with connections did recently (can't remember his name but she was drunk and lying outside I think and he raped her and got a suspended sentence), he never would have ended up behind bars.
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 29, 2018 at 15:20#1675920 likes
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff Is he worried about having a CT scan or is he worried about the surgery that might result from a diagnosis? (that would be my guess.) How old is he? Does this situation mark a significant behavior change?
All very difficult stuff to deal with.
Regarding South Dakota: Sioux Falls is worth a brief visit. There actually is a water fall there; the Little Sioux river (usually kind of brown from sediment) proceeds down a stairway of pink quartzite rock. It's very pretty. Minerva's restaurant used to be good, though it's been maybe 15 years, at least, since I last ate there. Sioux Falls is a regional powerhouse, because there isn't anything else, much, out there.
Sioux Falls has a large metal (aluminum or stainless steel) replica of David. Not sure where it is now -- they've moved it around, trying to find a place where his dick won't offend too many of the locals. It was given to the city.
My niece lives there -- she teaches music in a religiously affiliated school there. One of her daughters was Ms. South Dakota -- how much more exalted than that can one get? Her husband is in the funeral business -- not as a mortician; I think the company does wholesale supply, or something.
How long should you stay in Sioux Falls? With a talented guide to take you around to the places worth seeing, and to give you a fair sample of the city, I should think 3 hours should be adequate. Then lunch. After that, you're pretty much done. Next best thing: Devils Tower west of the Black Hills. Definitely worth a trip, and a 90 minute visit. The Black Hills? Mount Rushmore was underwhelming. Just rent North by Northwest (Hitchcock) and you'll get a fly-on-the-nose view of the Presidents. It's a good movie.
For a full experience of the upper midwest, fly into Minneapolis and rent a car at the airport. Drive to the Black Hills on Highway 12. It's a straight shot, practically; 2 lanes most of the way, no towns of interest, (not many towns at all) flat as a pancake, and B O R I N G.
Reply to T Clark I'm surprised that you, liking architecture as you do, have only been to Chicago once. It's a wonderful place for buildings. The big ones down town, yes, but also the collection of Frank Lloyd Wright houses in Oak Park, on the west side of Chicago. Wright's studio is a great tour.
There's also a lot of urban infrastructure history there. All very interesting.
It makes me want to book a ride on the train right now and stay for a week.
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff When my father was very ill and suffering from dementia, literally taking swings at the nurses trying to help him (and keep in mind he was a physician himself), it was very difficult to watch and know he was only harming himself by refusing even the simplest of care, but, in hindsight, I think back to those days with a certain amount of respect, knowing my father was at his heart a stubborn fighting son of a bitch who was going to do whatever he was going to do, smugly certain he was the smartest one in the room, even when he didn't even know where he was.
So, yeah, your dad is being your dad. My guess is that no matter what's being thrown at him, he's staying true to his essence, refusing once again to do what's best for him or maybe even to think about those around him. If he were agreeable and compliant now, then you'd have already lost that angry, selfish, but for some reason infinitely lovable son of a bitch that continues to drive you crazy.
I'm not saying just step away and let him be because you gotta be you too, which is the loving, worrying daughter who relentlessly takes care of that deeply flawed but somehow perfect creature that put you in this crazy world.
You're a really good daughter Miss Tiff. I hope I should be so lucky.
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 29, 2018 at 19:03#1676810 likes
Is he worried about having a CT scan or is he worried about the surgery that might result from a diagnosis? (that would be my guess.) How old is he? Does this situation mark a significant behavior change?
He is 74 diabetic, untreated Bi-Polar, glacoma in both eyes, blind in one, has neuropathy so bad he walks like Frankenstein, he is gasping for air, enough that people in the hospital are offering him a wheel chair and to call an ambulence if they are in public. His brain on last scan showed the brain of an 80 yr old and that was at 70 yrs old. He has a second pacemaker, two stents, a third wire lead to his heart and is experiencing mental confusion. He will not go back to the hospital. Our only chance is for him to pass out and us to be able to call 911 but even if he is admitted, he will sign himself out AMA and go home. He is a stubborn, do as he is going to do, son of a bitch. He fires Doctors, he tosses out nurses and is a bear to deal with. He is off his psyche meds, he is in a deep depression and the only relief he gets for his breathing is laying down with a C Pac on. That's it. He eats his emotions, doesn't comply with anyone, for any reason and just wants to die. But it's not his time and it is most certainly not my time for him to die. The outcome of the CAT scan would only give us an idea if he had a stroke or another TIA or what his brain looks like now. Is it a 90 yr old brain? Is this how we should be adressing him? His pain level is the same as mine between a 1 and 10, with 10 being the worst? We both register at 50 before you even touch us. HUGE BABIES
Does this situation mark a significant behavior change?
Yes, up until this last stay in the hospital for 11 days because he stopped taking all his meds because "they were fucking with his head" including to his blood thinner and his asprin a day. Result three months later was a blood clot on his arm from his wrist to his shoulder and was swelling around his pacemaker. All they did was IV fluids, Anti biotics and glucose testing. But 15 sticks for blood was enough to not ever warrent going back. He says he won't do it.
It seems to be a very long attempt at proving that shouting "basketball","basketball", "basketball" at a black hockey player is not as bad as some other types of racism. I don't see the point. They rightly kicked the maroons out and that was the end of it. Having some kind of conference to determine just how racist or otherwise they were hardly seems necessary. It's not like they got sent to jail or anything. Fairly boring stuff.
For the love of God, can I get a single pic of someone eating their pet?
Ate my pet chicken once. Brought it home from the countryside and it stayed on our first floor balcony. When I came back a few days later from my first grade classes, my grandparents informed me that a cat or some thief had gotten it while everyone was away. That evening I ate chicken soup along with everyone else. Took me a few years to figure this one out. No pictures though.
I'm surprised that you, liking architecture as you do, have only been to Chicago once.
I don't go places because of the architecture and engineering, I just like see it, feel it, when I'm there. It's really good to live in New England. So many beautiful houses. Old industrial cities are beat up, but they have gorgeous buildings. Worcester, where I went to school (Worcester Polytechnic Institute) has wonderful sandstone and granite schools, government buildings, office buildings, from the 19th century. Providence is also very nice. Then there are plenty of structures older than that going back to the early 1600s. Youngsters compared to Europe, but still....
Reply to Baden Right, I'm sort of rubbing my eyes in bewilderment that someone felt it necessary to write 20+ paragraphs explaining how a blatantly racist taunt was actually innocuous. It's a ludicrous attempt at defending casual racism.
He is 74 diabetic, untreated Bi-Polar, glacoma in both eyes, blind in one, has neuropathy so bad he walks like Frankenstein, he is gasping for air, enough that people in the hospital are offering him a wheel chair and to call an ambulence if they are in public.
It's not an altogether unusual situation--not that you are going to find any comfort in that.
If his bi-polar disease isn't being treated, he could be very depressed, and quite irrational; or he could be in mania and quite irrational, or in-between and merely a stubborn pain in the neck. Diabetes, mental illness, glaucoma, blindness, neuropathy, cardio/pulmonary dysfunction... and he has what to live for?
It would appear that the only chance of making any progress on all these problems would be involuntary commitment, against which the barriers are fairly high. There are a few medications, Neurontin, for example, which might help his neuropathy. The damage from glaucoma isn't reversible. The damage from diabetes might not be reversible either. If he's had a stroke, what chance is there of his participating in physical therapy? Probably not much. The next thing might be a heart infection (leads running into the heart...) How bad is his bi-polar?
He probably feels end-stage, whether he is or not. The truth is, you can only help people so far -- even if they are anxious for your help, and even if they are not, it's worth trying -- which you all have done.
He has a lot of serious conditions all at once; that's hard for the patient, hard for the family, and that's when people are cooperative.
Hope for the best. Don't think about the rest of it too long.
There's a name for it. It's called a "Hanoverism." TimeLine is responsible for the concept. She apparently finds him amusing.
Some people just cannot leave the universe to run its natural course. How can someone be so cruel as to tell Hanover that he is amusing? Oh the end is nigh, woe be unto us.
No, because you are cruel to cats. If you are going to eat one you should at least look at Alf's 1,000 ways to cook your cat book. Some of those recipes look tasty.
Some people just cannot leave the universe to run its natural course. How can someone be so cruel as to tell Hanover that he is amusing? Oh the end is nigh, woe be unto us.
As my father used to say "Jack's son has the gout" which translates to "Each to his own taste."
As my father used to say "Jack's son has the gout" which translates to "Each to his own taste."
I think he was telling you that Jack's son had the gout, but in your inebriated state you took that to mean each had his own taste. Meanwhile Jack's son continued to suffer from the gout while you were oblivious.
I think he was telling you that Jack's son had the gout, but in your inebriated state you took that to mean each had his own taste. Meanwhile Jack's son continued to suffer from the gout while you were oblivious
@ArguingWAristotleTiff Despite being phenomenally busy the last several weeks and more to come, I managed to make these cupcakes for a dinner tonight; vanilla fairy floss nests with chocolate easter eggs.
Good Friday to all the ladies in the house! Except Hanover, who is just confused.
So, yeah, your dad is being your dad. My guess is that no matter what's being thrown at him, he's staying true to his essence, refusing once again to do what's best for him or maybe even to think about those around him. If he were agreeable and compliant now, then you'd have already lost that angry, selfish, but for some reason infinitely lovable son of a bitch that continues to drive you crazy.
I am trying to embrace the idea of not pushing him for further treatment if it means he is going to see me as a stress, rather than a loving family member as we continue on. But it's not me, I am not a wimp and neither is he, I am a Warrior and I have seen him be the same but it has been a few years now. Thank you Hanover~
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 30, 2018 at 12:27#1679300 likes
Would some motherfucker on this Board wish me a Happy Passover? Really? Just because my Lord and Savior didn't rise from the dead today doesn't mean I have no feelings.
Would some motherfucker on this Board wish me a Happy Passover? Really? Just because my Lord and Savior didn't rise from the dead today doesn't mean I have no feelings.
Would some motherfucker on this Board wish me a Happy Passover? Really? Just because my Lord and Savior didn't rise from the dead today doesn't mean I have no feelings.
He gets crucified today, wakes up again on Sunday. Merry Passover.
Reply to Baden I know what you do in Ireland. You drink, eat potatoes, fuck sheep, and then drink some more. Everyone knows that. Everyone. That's why the English gave your island away, except the top part, because they don't fuck sheep there. Read a history book.
Reply to TimeLine If not too much to ask, can I get a pic of the fairy floss nest moustache you'll have from eating the cupcake? I want to hang it on my bulletin board in my cellar.
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 30, 2018 at 15:31#1679720 likes
Reply to Hanover Happy passing over. I can just picture you slaughtering a lamb, slopping some of the blood on your porch door, and then roasting it over fire in your back yard (can gas grills be re-koshered after all those pork chops?) but a man's gotta do what the good lord tells him to.
Christians just eat Jesus himself. I would think human steaks would count as tref. Any opinion on that, Rabbi?
Christians just eat Jesus himself. I would think human steaks would count as tref. Any opinion on that, Rabbi?
It is my understanding some cannibals called human flesh "long pig."
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 30, 2018 at 17:50#1679900 likes
@Hanover
Happy Passover! :party:
You know if @Benkei had not shattered my dreams of becoming a Jew, I would have known it was Passover. :gasp:
I blame @Maw for not clueing me in on the holiday seeing as he thinks I am into the Jews for the culture not the religion. :roll:
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 30, 2018 at 17:51#1679910 likes
And why can't I take what I want from each religion and leave the rest? :chin:
The Theology Mixer
I like it! :up:
Reply to Bitter Crank According to Rabbi Hanoverstein ben Punkinsky of Lubuvitch, the grill can be made kosher by subjecting it to the direct heat of a blow torch until it glows bright red (this is actually true). Human flesh is not kosher as humans neither chew their cud nor have split hooves. If you have a human fish (as in a mermaid or merman), he or she will only be kosher if he or she has scales. A human insect (as was the case in the movie "The Fly" staring fellow member of the tribe Jeff Goldblum)would generally not be kosher unless it were a particular breed of locust, but even then the Ashkenazi would still not partake, and in fact, only the Sephardim specifically of Moroccan descent would.
What I would suggest for simplicity sake is to purchase those items at your grocer bearing the seal of the Orthodox Union indicating its koshruth standard and saving you the burden of learning Halakha from a non-practicing Jew with a penchant for sexual deviance.
Leviticus 11:29: "Of the animals that move along the ground, these are unclean for you: the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard, the gecko, the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink and the chameleon."
So, I'm unkosher, but all ladies need not fret, as this prohibition does not apply to the many fine shiksa in my life.
A formerly Christian friend of mine whose husband is Jewish and who has raised her daughters in the temple wanted to convert. She started the process but balked at the ritual cleansing that is required of women. So she continues to be an active member of the community, volunteering in the temple and participating in the services, but won't take the final step.
Hmmm.... I am not so sure about this conversion thing. I was excommunicated from the first place that threw water on my forehead and now I am expected to go totally under and not be held down by the smartest Jew in the room? :fear:
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 30, 2018 at 20:19#1680230 likes
I am not giving up my pursuit...there has to be another way in. :chin:
Congratulations. The first post on page 1000 of the Shoutbox.
We have reached the end of my knowledge about conversion in Judaism and I'm just transmitting what my friend told me. My point wasn't intended as a criticism of Jewish doctrine or practice, only that it can be hard to convert. It's a serious thing. You may have to accept new values which are different from those you have grown up with.
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 30, 2018 at 20:24#1680300 likes
@Benkei
I might owe you an apology for thinking you were wrong this whole time about me not being able to become Jewish. I am hearing some things that I don't really care for and I mean Atheists can be funny too, right? I mean look at Mayor, he is a blast!
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 30, 2018 at 20:27#1680320 likes
You may have to accept new values which are different from those you have grown up with.
Well I think I better stay believing in Mother Nature because I can look outside at many different times of day, in all the seasons and see, listen, smell, feel and touch all the beauty she brings into my life. Like Carlin said: "I worship the sun. Why? Because I can point to it. It goes away but always comes back and it warms me when it does."
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 30, 2018 at 20:27#1680330 likes
I am still keeping the Halva :yum:
ArguingWAristotleTiffMarch 30, 2018 at 20:30#1680340 likes
We have reached the end of my knowledge about conversion in Judaism and I'm just transmitting what my friend told me. My point wasn't intended as a criticism of Jewish doctrine or practice, only that it can be hard to convert. It's a serious thing. You may have to accept new values which are different from those you have grown up with.
Oh, you can be critical. I don't care.
There are cleanliness issues with women that many would find offensive. Men and women cannot sleep in the same bed during the menstrual cycle and the woman does go to the mikvah to cleanse herself spiritually after her period ends. The cleansing is spiritual, not actual, as the mikvah would look like a murder scene after a few rounds of actual cleansing.
I don't know if it's in my Jewish genes, but I in particular am too fastidious to engage during that period . The aroma can be overpowering and the feeling of bloody lubricant is distressing. Once I had to stop in midstream (literally), and that really upset my fertile lass, but I just couldn't maintain despite my best effort.
It's so liberating how I feel like I can share everything with you guys. You're all the very best!
So, like, if God where to hypothetically be blessing a particular nation, what’d he/she/it be intending in relation to all those other ones?
This one for me is right up there with what size tool did the most important religious and/or scientific individuals in history really have? Moses, Jesus Christ, the Buddha, I’ll add Einstein for the scientific side. Cuz, we all know how much tool sizes mean to in respect to being an important, integral, and valued human.
… but, I think I just got myself in trouble. Clamps are tools too, btw. And no, I’m not answering any questions!
Reply to javra No worries. You're not the only one it's happened to. There were a few who were hilariously oblivious to some Monty Python references a number of pages back. Priceless.
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff Oy vey ist mir, Tiffany liebchin, you're just not trying hard enough here. You want to be Jewish? What were you thinking of - Orthodox? Conservative? Think reformed or, better yet, Reconstructing Judaism, founded by Mordecai Kaplan in 1922 as an appropriate form of Judaism for the American culture.
Reform Judaism is about 110 years older than Reconstructing Judaism, both are still hot off the press, in terms of the history of Judaism.
It's probably nothing more than symbolic, anyway -- and as Flannery O'Connor said about that sort of thing (talking about sacraments as symbols), "If it's just symbolic, then to hell with it." Last night at the Maundy Thursday service (Maundy from mandamus) many churches washed feet -- usually the pastor washing the feet of the parishioners. How well washed were they? Water was poured on the feet over a basin and then patted with a towel. It wouldn't disturb one's Desenex powder. None the less, the feet were washed. NEXT! The command (mandamus) wasn't to wash feet; it is to love one another as Jesus loved his apostles, demonstrated by his probably thorough washing of their feet.
So anyway, getting back to Judaism, you probably aren't going to find reformed or reconstructing Jews tripping over each other out there in the outback where you live.
Yeah, a blast of warm diarrhoea into this toilet of a forum.
Happy 20,002nd comment, and God bless America. :party:
I am sorry that you feel as though The Philosophy Forum is a "toliet of a forum" but you are entitled to your feelings. :ok:
But if you feel that way about TPF, why are you here?
I am sorry that you feel as though The Philosophy Forum is a "toliet of a forum" but you are entitled to your feelings. :ok:
But if you feel that way about TPF, why are you here?
I am sorry that you feel as though The Philosophy Forum is a "toliet of a forum" but you are entitled to your feelings. :ok:
But if you feel that way about TPF, why are you here?
Have you heard of Toilet Duck? Well, I'm like that, but the Owl version.
CuddlyHedgehogMarch 31, 2018 at 18:22#1683400 likes
Without us, or anything like us, there would be nobody to observe and understand the universe. Worse yet, there couldn't even be a universe in the first place because the concept of a universe is a human invention.
Without us, nothing is describable because descriptions require a set of conventions called language and is invented by human society. If humans never existed, then everything would be completely indescribable. To call something a universe would be an act of description. So without us, there would be nothing that you can describe as a universe.
Yes, it seems like a reasonable issue to bring up.
It's not about the issue, it's about the argument put forward. It's a terrible argument. I could break it down and address it in the discussion itself if you don't see it.
It's not about the issue, it's about the argument put forward. It's a terrible argument. I could break it down and address it in the discussion itself if you don't see it.
Are those orange phallic monuments in your yard intended to be a homage to Donald Trump?
I would have thought they are a bit short to be considered "phallic," but that's just me. They are to keep people from falling into the old shed foundation.
It's not about the issue, it's about the argument put forward. It's a terrible argument. I could break it down and address it in the discussion itself if you don't see it.
Why did you not just go ahead and break it down and be done with it, instead of bringing it over here?
Odd question. Or is it some sort of test? Why wouldn't I know the meaning of that word? Do you have some reason to doubt my understanding of English?
There is nothing odd about the question. As you yourself have so often pointed out, words have several meanings. I would like to know what you, personally, understand education to be.
As you yourself have so often pointed out, words have several meanings. I would like to know what you, personally, understand education to be.
Why make it personal? What's wrong with an impersonal answer derived from the standard meaning that you can find in a dictionary? Seems adequate enough to me.
What if I were to say something like, "Personally, education, to me, is a combination of positive and negative energy, refocused to project a harmonious understanding, with a view to attaining enlightenment"?
I don't think that it is, or ought to be, a matter of personal understanding. It is what it is, and that's that.
I thought that I had already explained that, let me check, yes I did.
Not really. You just noted that words have several meanings, and you told me that you'd like to know what I, personally, understand education to be.
If I'm critical of your approach to an issue, then I likely will not just passively submit to it. I'll resist it and attempt to redirect you or try to get you to think about it differently.
Now, if you're competent enough, based on the bones I've already thrown you, you'll be able to work out at least a rough idea of what I understand education to be, without me having to spell it out to you. Do you think you're up to the task? Or would you prefer to carry on the charade?
Well, I wouldn't go that far, but I'm satisfied enough with how I've dealt with this. And you haven't provided me with any good reason to go about it differently. So...
Well, I wouldn't go that far, but I'm satisfied enough with how I've dealt with this. And you haven't provided me with any good reason to go about it differently. So...
Avoidance is a defense mechanism, but I suppose that you being the embodiment of knowledge would already know that.
Or a signal that you wish to carry on the charade?
How can asking a simple question be a charade? Only in your mind.
But if you are not up to the task of saying clearly and concisely what you think education is then I guess I will have to let you think whatever you want.
Oh, by the way, you missed a mistake. Are you up to the task of finding it?
How can asking a simple question be a charade? Only in your mind.
It's quite simple, really. The charade is that you were ever truly ignorant, to any significant degree, of my meaning to begin with; and that, even after - and in spite of - what I've indicated to you, you remain largely ignorant; and that it's therefore necessary for me to spell it out for you.
My aim here is to shatter that illusion. I put it to you that you know what I mean, because you understand English, and because you understand that I understand English, and because, if there was ever any doubt, what I've indicated to you about my stance should have been sufficient to dispel such doubts.
But if you are not up to the task of saying clearly and concisely what you think education is then I guess I will have to let you think whatever you want.
Can you tell me why I should have to? What next? Math by finger-counting?
Reply to Sapientia Instead of writing all of this useless balderdash would it not have been nicer to really discuss the differences of how we each understand what education actually is?
But I guess that would be to much to ask for.
Did you find the mistake yet oh wonderful embodiment of wisdom?
Instead of writing all of this useless balderdash would it not have been nicer to really discuss the differences of how we each understand what education actually is?
But I guess that would be to much to ask for.
Okay, then why don't you start by telling me how your understanding differs from the norm, instead of dragging this out?
As a head-teacher, one of the most telling responses I get when interviewing candidates for teaching posts is in response to the question, 'What, for you, is the purpose of education?'. Roughly three-quarters of those I interview reply with something along the lines of, 'I don't know´.
Are you part of the 75%?
Your habit of making supercilious comments about threads without appearing to have anything to say about them is annoying to say the least.
If you had read the thread it might be more than obvious why the topic was being descussed.
Hey, you're the one who jumped on my partly tongue-in-cheek comment that I purposefully posted here in the Shoutbox.
I didn't ask you why the topic was being discussed. You indicated a preference to discuss the differences in our respective understandings. My response to that is: go on then. I'm not stopping you.
You indicated a preference for us to discuss the differences in our respective understandings.
No, I asked you to explain what you think education is. As you seem to have the best answers for everything I thought I might take advantage of your wisdom and find out the obvious truth of the matter.
I think it is clear that you posted your tongue in cheek comment here is because you have nothing of value to add in the thread about education.
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my question. Or not.
No argument with your sentiment, but it is a testament to the change in tone on the forum in the last months that this exchange is considered "too personal."
No argument with your sentiment, but it is a testament to the change in tone on the forum in the last months that this exchange is considered "too personal."
It is worth noting that the warning was issued by one of the new moderators. I'd fail to keep a straight face if I saw some of the other mods say what drake did.
Change of tone might be my fault. I am a new mod after all. And as a post-modern neomarxist I'm somewhere between the devouring mother and Stalin in terms of psychology.
If you think there's been a change and it's a bad thing why not start a thread in feedback?
No, I asked you to explain what you think education is.
And I responded by indicating to you what my stance is, enabling you to answer that question yourself. Since you refuse to do so, my conclusion is that you're not really interested in the answer, but only interested in attempting to get me to answer it for you.
Thank you. If you have any complaints please start a thread in feedback or if you feel unable to discuss any specific issue with the whole staff personally, or have an issue with a staff member you would like the staff to address, don't feel afraid to message one of us and we'll try to address the concerns.
The implication seems to be that this is a bad thing. But can you imagine what would happen to the economy if people were smarter and more informed? If they thought critically about advertising? If they refused to buy from environmentally damaging businesses? If they avoided expensive branded goods in favor of generic ones? If they understood the fine print of insurance policies?
Total crash. And then we all lose. Sorry, but prosperity is built on leaders like Trump who encourage people to feel confident rather than ashamed about not knowing stuff. The alternative is economic ruin and a population of eggheads wondering how to pay their mortgages.
There's actually a scientific proof of the underlying point here. I'll try to find the source and stick it up. Basically, some researchers showed that economic growth is inversely proportional to increases in national average IQ (given a minimum baseline of 100). The caveat is that there be a greater standard deviation in terms of the distribution—a flatter bell curve in other words (so that the overall numbers of very smart people who are needed to do high-skilled jobs and drive technological advancement remain steady). And no more than a 5% drop (I think it was) in overall IQ as after that the negatives become too pronounced (like people can't do their jobs properly etc.) They estimated that the ideal IQ of a population in a country like America (which is the one they happened to focus on) is something like 96-97. And that an IQ of 104-5 would result in a cumulative loss of 5 trillion dollars of GDP and up to 1 million jobs over a five year period (though there was something about a possible rebound after that. Can't remember all the details. Will look it up.)
Sorry, the only point of this is to stress, though it may sound perverse, that Trump and leaders like him are doing us all a favor by modestly increasing stupidity levels. And I'm slowly coming around to the view that we should get behind him, or at least that it's economically rational to do so (though I still find it difficult, of course).
One could replace Donald Trump with Hillary Clinton and the message will remain the same.
Doubtful. This part in particular seems of greater relevance to Trump supporters:
Indeed, from evolution to data about our economy to the science of vaccines to the threats we face in the world, they reject vast subjects rooted in fact in order to have reality conform to their views.
prosperity is built on leaders like Trump who encourage people to feel confident rather
I think you will find that prosperity, security, safety, health, education, clean environment, etc. ALL depend on people having "faith" and confidence in the utility of themselves, their families, their neighborhood, city, state, and... whatever geo-political unit they think important.
Once the masses lose this "faith and confidence" things unravel, regardless of who is in charge. Knitting together and unravelling is a continuous, on-going process. They who lose faith today, regain it later, somewhere else, or under changed circumstances.
That's certainly an important piece of the puzzle. I'm just becoming more convinced that more leaders like Trump, despite some negatives, would be an overall good thing economically, and that's, in the end, the primary concern we should all have if we're to be honest with ourselves.
(And again, I'm just talking about controlled and modest increases in ignorance and lack of critical thinking. Countries that go in the opposite direction are losing in the economic race as they tend to produce too high a percentage of "thoughtful losers" (I think you know what I mean)).
Yeah, "creating a more peaceful world", pffft! What we need is war. Trade war, cold war, nuclear war... war! Now that he's hired John Bolton, hopefully that'll speed up the process.
Let's not exaggerate though. Controlled levels of increased conflict such as Trump is fomenting are also good for the economy, and hence for all of us. I guess we probably don't want nuclear war, the cleanup would be really expensive, but war in general tends to be stimulatory.
I don't know. But in the end it kind of boils down to "Do you want a job or not?" In your case the answer is probably "no", but it's kind of selfish to drag everyone else down with you.
Put it this way. When was the last time you bought something you didn't need?
Look at this:
I bought it the other day. It's a piece of crap, hardly works and I'm probably never going to use it. But I saw it on TV and I bought it because I have plenty of spare cash to throw around and well, who knows what it might come in useful for. On top of that, actions like these help the economy and thus help us all. If everyone thought doing something like that was a dumb idea we'd all be screwed>>Economic depression>>No jobs. Fostering public intelligence sounds like a good idea on paper but a sense of intellectual superiority won't buy you lunch, will it?
And I responded by indicating to you what my stance is, enabling you to answer that question yourself. Since you refuse to do so, my conclusion is that you're not really interested in the answer, but only interested in attempting to get me to answer it for you.
Is it not the process by which one carries on a conversation? One party asks a question, the other answers. There would be very few conversations in the world if everyone just answered "figure it out yourself" or "you already know the answer, so why do you want mine?"
But whatever, if you do not want to share your knowledge that is alright. The world will carry on without it.
Reply to Sir2u Too easy. I prefer a less orthodox approach when asked a question which suggests something I find peculiar and hard to believe. Not one for a challenge, then?
You see this as a good thing or bad? Real question.
I think it's a really good thing. Sorry I wasn't clear. I was talking to some other people and they wondered if it has gotten or will get more boring. I don't think so. And if it does, that just means philosophy and reason are not as interesting as people think they are.
It is worth noting that the warning was issued by one of the new moderators. I'd fail to keep a straight face if I saw some of the other mods say what drake did.
Funny. I had forgotten @fdrake is a moderator now. It does mean something different coming from him rather than a regular member.
If you think there's been a change and it's a bad thing why not start a thread in feedback?
You're not the only one who wasn't clear whether I was fer or agin the "new tone." Fer it. I don't think it has anything to do with you individually. There's been a change that's made us more philosophical.
Thank you. If you have any complaints please start a thread in feedback or if you feel unable to discuss any specific issue with the whole staff personally, or have an issue with a staff member you would like the staff to address, don't feel afraid to message one of us and we'll try to address the concerns.
I'm really sorry. I wasn't trying to start a rumble. I only wanted to point out that the conversation fdrake was commenting on was much more civil and measured than the average discussion used to be. Two points I guess 1) Things have really improved. 2) A little crankiness is not necessarily a bad thing.
When I was 6 I used to help the dinner ladies at school tidy up the canteen after lunch. Because I did this every day eventually they gave me a small notepad and a smaller pencil as a gift. This made me feel very proud of myself. However, I came to the realization that since the notepad was a gift and highly unusual for such a thing to just pop into someone's possession during the lunch break, the notepad conferred upon me special status. I was given a privilege by an authority and decided to use this privilege to repeatedly write 'Do not do that.' in the notepad, walk up to other children in the playground and tell them to stop what they were doing because the notepad instructed them to do it.
The reply you quoted while apologising was addressed to Butex anyway. Perhaps I'm missing something here.
If you haven't understood it yet, let me say for myself, that the quality of the forum has gone up noticably in the last few months, a lot having to do with your approach to moderating and the move of @unenlightened to the regular members, for he is a powerful force to have a member voice without the baggage of being a moderator/administrator.
The balance promotes the setting and safety for which discussions are fostered rather than persons being baited into a war of words that never really answer the discussion. It's a dance but it can get tiring at times and it's nice to have balance restored to the forum.
I could list the reasons why I believe @fdrake is an excellent addition to the moderation board but I would leave stuff out and I would feel obligated to say all the reasons I appreciate each of the other moderators as well as the admistration. So suffice it to say that I am pleasntly surprised.
ArguingWAristotleTiffApril 01, 2018 at 23:46#1687060 likes
Taking care of a ranch this weekend and mucking shit sure does give one time enough to think. :meh:
ArguingWAristotleTiffApril 01, 2018 at 23:49#1687080 likes
Name the tune without help from the internet
"Rooms to let fifty cents
No phone no pool no pets
I ain't got no cigarettes
Ah but, two hours of pushing broom
Buys a eight by twelve four bit room
I'm a man of means by no means"
The reply you quoted while apologising was addressed to Butex anyway. Perhaps I'm missing something here.
No, I don't think you're missing anything. I hope I clarified my original post. I was just commenting on the changes in the forum, which I think are good.
I was talking to some other people and they wondered if it has gotten or will get more boring.
It's the McEnroe question. Do people want to watch tennis or just some maniac screaming? At first, the maniac, but eventually just tennis. If not, then tennis is not really of much value.
Name the tune without help from the internet
"Rooms to let fifty cents
No phone no pool no pets
I ain't got no cigarettes
Ah but, two hours of pushing broom
Buys a eight by twelve four bit room
I'm a man of means by no means"
May your hands always be busy
May your feet always be swift
May you have a strong foundation
When the winds of changes shift
May your heart always be joyful
And may your song always be sung
May you stay forever young
Guys, I forgot to let you know. Yesterday was not real Easter, it was all fake news. Believe me. Real Easter is April 8th, and you better head over to the nearest Eastern Orthodox Church to get your passport, I mean baptism, or otherwise you ain't going to get past St. Peter's border check. So get that passport now, and don't miss out on the party. There are no illegal immigrants in the city of Heaven! In time, I hope to see you all on the other side (Y)
Diogenes was knee deep in a stream washing vegetables. Coming up to him, Plato said, “My good Diogenes, if you knew how to pay court to kings, you wouldn’t have to wash vegetables.”
“And,” replied Diogenes, “If you knew how to wash vegetables, you wouldn’t have to pay court to kings.”
Can you name this tune without the help of the Internet:
"Crawl into my ambulance, your pulse is getting weak
reveal yourself all too me now, while you've got the strength to speak"
Reply to Sapientia The way you know is just don't look at the moon and see if it's not there, and if it is, you're a realist. That's the age old idealist test that Bishop Berkeley made up but he could only move diagonally.
"Crawl into my ambulance, your pulse is getting weak
reveal yourself all too me now, while you've got the strength to speak"
Yeah, I remember. It's from the Monkee's theme song.
Actually, I'm getting a little tickle, but not much. I'll soak in it and see if something pops up unless someone else can figure it out or you get tired of waiting.
My favorite Monkee was Peter Tork. My favorite monkey was Chim Chim from Speed Racer. My favorite Beatle was Ringo and my favorite beetle is the one in the box, or is it?
My son cares about beer. He stores them on shelves in our basement. He also manages a farm. In summer, there is no room for my cottage cheese because of his beer and vegetables in the refrigerator.
CuddlyHedgehogApril 03, 2018 at 01:32#1690330 likes
Does anyone else find this forum mind-numbingly boring?
You've only been here for a couple of months. If you don't find value in it, go away.
The forum has changed my life for the better and it means a lot to me. I don't expect that to be true of everyone, but no one forces anyone to be here. So, go fry ice.
It’s the little things, eh Carl? Bless your simple heart.
You are welcome here. We can always use some.... whatever it is you provide. I'm not joking, I just don't know the right word. But if you don't get what you want here, go somewhere else.
We'll try to get Robbie Williams in. Or maybe Penn and Teller.
I'll talk to jrob about it. :up:
Super.
ArguingWAristotleTiffApril 03, 2018 at 14:31#1691570 likes
After watching this I wonder what Christopher would have said about Trump.
I do miss the wit and knowledge that Christopher imparted on any discussion he was having. Was he vaping in that video? It seems a bit early for that technology.
unenlightenedApril 03, 2018 at 20:30#1692430 likes
Hey guys, have some good news for a change, and a great big thank you to an American president and the country that produced him.
Yet to learn that the satisfaction gained from slapping someone on the face isn't worth the pain of the retaliatory slap. Especially when they've got bigger hands than you. :wink:
I literally cannot move that I am pulling a sick day tomorrow. My PT decided to get me to do all sorts of post-Easter exercises, boxing, power-lifting and whatever the heck that today I was walking around the office like I had a massive wedgy. Friggin lactic acid.
Reply to TimeLine My hardest Easter was the time they dragged me through glass and shit, beat the shit out of me, and hung me from a post. Once I rose from the dead, I walked around at work like I had a huge wedgy, but that was more just to make the receptionist laugh. It was really mostly the stigmata wounds that were achy.
Reply to Hanover My hardest Easter was the Easter when I told "your" children that I'm their real father, because of my commitment to the truth; and afterwards, when I had to convince them not to say anything to you, because, unlike them, you wouldn't be able to handle it. I was actually quite surprised at how well they took it.
Speaking of venereal diseases, I'm wondering what sexually active people worry about most. HIV, herpes, gonorrhea/syphilis, or pregnancy. Pregnancy isn't technically a venereal disease I don't think, but I'm not a doctor.
My thought is that HIV is the most serious of the maladies, but it's generally treatable these days, and the most likely mode of transmission largely excludes my concerns, although I always try to make sure the guy behind me isn't following too close when I'm in line at the bank and things like that and I always squirt hand sanitizer down my pants. Pregnancy is a concern and it's very expensive to treat and the treatment lasts 18 years or more to fully free yourself from it. But if you cross your fingers just right it won't happen. Gonorrhea and syphilis are old school diseases I don't really hear about people getting that much anymore and my understanding is that if you soak yourself in kerosene you'll cure it, but maybe I'm wrong there too. Then there's herpes, which is a stigma disease that really amounts to an occasional skin breakout on your junk (or girl junk as it were). I wouldn't want that because I don't like stigmas but I think you can take meds to keep the seepage under control.
So, here's the question: Imagine the single most attractive person to you wants to have sex with you (a swimsuit model, a fireman, a migrant avocado picker, a midget who can use his penis as a kickstand, or whatever), but you learn he or she's suffering a bright red angry case of one of the above, which do you choose and why, and does it matter if oral is under consideration?
So, here's the question: Imagine the single most attractive person to you wants to have sex with you (a swimsuit model, a fireman, a migrant avocado picker, a midget who can use his penis as a kickstand, or whatever), but you learn he or she's suffering a bright red angry case of one of the above, which do you choose and why, and does it matter if oral is under consideration?
My thought is that HIV is the most serious of the maladies, but it's generally treatable these days, and the most likely mode of transmission largely excludes my concerns, although I always try to make sure the guy behind me isn't following too close when I'm in line at the bank and things like that and I always squirt hand sanitizer down my pants. Pregnancy is a concern and it's very expensive to treat and the treatment lasts 18 years or more to fully free yourself from it. But if you cross your fingers just right it won't happen. Gonorrhea and syphilis are old school diseases I don't really hear about people getting that much anymore and my understanding is that if you soak yourself in kerosene you'll cure it, but maybe I'm wrong there too. Then there's herpes, which is a stigma disease that really amounts to an occasional skin breakout on your junk (or girl junk as it were). I wouldn't want that because I don't like stigmas but I think you can take meds to keep the seepage under control.
So, here's the question: Imagine the single most attractive person to you wants to have sex with you (a swimsuit model, a fireman, a migrant avocado picker, a midget who can use his penis as a kickstand, or whatever), but you learn he or she's suffering a bright red angry case of one of the above, which do you choose and why, and does it matter if oral is under consideration?
The correct answer is "pregnancy". It ain't contagious and it ain't mine.
I joined the Wall Street Journal wine club. They sent me 15 bottles of wine for about $70 and they said they'd send me 12 more every 4 months for $150 until I decided to cancel. I got my wine and immediately canceled, so now I have a bunch of wine. Last year, I probably drank 1/2 a bottle of wine total, maybe. I now have 30 years worth of wine, but it was a really good deal. I have this wine buffet table with little cubbies you can put wine in, so that's why I bought the wine.
Anyway, wine party at Hanover's house for anyone interested. Sometimes I don't wear clothes, so let me know when you're coming over so that I can put my socks on.
Anyway, wine party at Hanover's house for anyone interested. Sometimes I don't wear clothes, so let me know when you're coming over so that I can put my socks on.
If you can get me the time off work, pay for my flights, provide me with accommodation for my stay, then...
My hardest Easter was the time they dragged me through glass and shit, beat the shit out of me, and hung me from a post. Once I rose from the dead, I walked around at work like I had a huge wedgy, but that was more just to make the receptionist laugh. It was really mostly the stigmata wounds that were achy.
Yeah, look Easter in Australia is just public holiday long weekend filled with dinners and doing fun things and eating a lot of chocolate.
Oh, I've been exchanging your secrets for crack, and Timeline is in possession of a lot of crack. You should be more careful about what you let slip in our pillow talk.
Reply to Sapientia Alright, just to get this straight, you and I were fucking, and I, feeling secure in our love, revealed to you that my nickname was "dipshit." You, needing a fix of crack cocaine, took that nugget of information and offered it in exchange for some of that crack from none other than our own downunder princess Timeline. She chose information over money and then used her payout to respond to my comments that last Easter I was crucified in a Christ-like trial of pain.
Oh, I've been exchanging your secrets for crack, and Timeline is in possession of a lot of crack. You should be more careful about what you let slip in our pillow talk.
Careful now, you know what happened last time you over-confidently thought I was too short to kick high enough.
Bet you still have floppy disks in that old box of yours.
Challenge me! I'm not your organ grinder monkey for entertainment where you can just say floppy disk and expect for me to say something about hard drives or thumb drives being inserted into USB ports. And don't expect me to jump on the word "box" or to even refer back to my own comment regarding "organ" grinder.
My humor is complicated, clever, refined, and unexpected. I would never say my floppy drive is at my house but my hard drive is at your house in your box. Damn you! I still said it!
ArguingWAristotleTiffApril 05, 2018 at 12:48#1697070 likes
Reply to Hanover A mere child of the double entendre! I tried unzipping one of the files entitled "Magic Quadrant" and when it was wide open, a trojan horse leapt out and everything turned XML. The dongle started playing up before the whole system exploded.
Reply to TimeLine So here's the thing. I came up with a really good story, but I self-censored. I'll be glad to provide it, but so you know the plot, it involved me forcing my mouse into a hole on the back of my computer after I had warmed the computer up by pushing the "on" button. As I tried to fish the mouse out, my hand began bleeding, and I as you can imagine, I had to clench my fist to stop the bleeding and that resulted in me thrashing my arm about within the computer in a failed effort to release it as the internal computer parts tightened around my fist and blood oozed out of the strangely present back hole.
It was a really good story with fully developed characters, a complicated love triangle, an antagonist that kept intervening in the relationship that represented capitalism and corporatism (the story line was very involved), and there was a Christ-like character that assisted in the freeing of the hand (the mouse insertion, as you've likely deciphered, represented original sin and the fall of man).
A good 20 pages was devoted to a prior failed relationship of mine where I just sort of pathetically diverted into unrelated self-pity and used the word "bitch" no less than 220 times. It wasn't a good look for me, but don't judge my art!
What 8 Track tape do you still have? :smirk:
If you don't have one left, which was your favorite?
I have none left. I did have an 8 track player from Sears that broke a long time ago. I had some of those K-Tel greatest hits albums you'd order off TV. It seems like I had one with "Billy Don't be Hero" and "The Night Chicago Died." I remember a lot of those songs from that album.
I'd give my dad the money and he'd write a check and mail it in for me and then I'd wait and wait and wait until I got my package. Good old days.
ArguingWAristotleTiffApril 05, 2018 at 15:40#1697270 likes
It seems like I had one with "Billy Don't be Hero" and "The Night Chicago Died." I remember a lot of those songs from that album.
Hmm something like Paper and Lace I think was the name of that band. Good tunes by the way, I know the words to each one by heart. My Mom had an 8 Track with the song "Cherry Shoe" that I used to sing with a mic, on stage (the stone seat in front of the fireplace) into a Panasonic smoked plastic stereo we had. One day my smart ass brother asked me if I was singing "Cherry Shoe"? I said YES! He said "It's Cherish You, you idiot". Sibling love I assure you.
I signed up for the 10 free cassette tapes for a dollar and got 2 FREE! OOoo what a scam to start destroying your credit score early, or in your case, sending your Dad to collections.
The killer part of that K-Tel deal was how proud I was the summer I went up to the lake with my new Ghetto Blaster (took 800 D Batteries) and my suitcase of tunes we could play all summer long. First day we girls get to go out on the boat, on our own and I was sitting in the bow changing tapes, so we had the right song playing as we cruised passed the boys of summer place. Got the tape loaded and set to go and BAM we hit a wave the wrong way and OFF went my case of 11 tapes, into the water and by the time we circled back they were gone. The boys of summer had seen it all and were smirking on the pier.
Yep, me and the girls with ONE tape all summer long. Over and Over and Over and......
I'm glad that Kevin D Williamson lasted less than a week at The Atlantic, who shouldn't have hired him anyway. Basically they held a live grenade in their hand.
Comments (61561)
:grin:
Ohhhhhhh, Jerrr-Em-Eee Corrrrr-Byn... :victory:
I don't know much about the book of Job, although I think it was preceded by the book of Hand.
[I]My[/I] perspective on the power of belief in one's own righteousness and piety in face of gratuitous suffering by the hand of God through the will of Satan, is that it's kinda stoopid.
Wrong thread but OK.
Your perspective on the power of belief in one's own righteousness and piety in face of gratuitous suffering by the hand of God through the will of Satan, is kinda stoopid.
And also, [i]you're[/I] kinda stoopid.
And also, shup.
:_)
Oh, don't make fun of the disabled now. Not saying Sapientia is disabled, but find another way to get at people if thats what gives you kicks.
Since you speak as though you have some personal experience of matters relating to spitting and swallowing, I will consider your advice.
Ah, no. However, coming from someone who never has felt or understood the need to carry a weapon in his neighbourhood, the only way I could imagine needing a weapon for safety is in the event of mass social strife and conflicts.
I mean, the reality TV show has taken on a life inside the White House and the whole of America now. What's even more worrying is the amount of people suspect and disenfranchised with the justice department. 1 in 2 Americans trust in the integrity of the FBI, the only institution that I hold sacred in the branches of government. God I wish we can resurrect someone like J. Edgar Hoover and phuqing grab these clowns by the balls and get the whole shitshow under control.
It looks to be irreparable. This sort of degeneracy follows a natural path.
I don't think it will be achieved. Cultural degradation has existed in the US for a long time already.
Quoting Posty McPostface
:rofl: LOL!
Unilever’s chief executive Paul Polman put it like this recently: “Do you want short-term forces – that work for a few people, and make a few more billionaires – to be the dominant force?
“Or do you want the system to work for the billions that need to be served? It’s a fundamental choice.”
Mr Polman has now made that fundamental choice. He has moved his company, and with it a lucrative source of tax, because he believes our rules put the interests of shareholders ahead of the customers, workers and suppliers who are essential to Unilever’s success.[/quote]
I was shocked as I thought it was over 50% easy but no, 32.5% , ranking 25th in the Nation in this article.
:gasp:
Quoting Baden
:gasp: :worry: :angry:
It's not easy being green Baden.
Mayo, vinegar and a pinch of sugar. :yum: I leave the celery seed out of yours and the sugar if you want~ I aim to please :wink:
Fair enough. I know that the neighbor ranches on both sides of ours are armed, they have cute signs that say "You can take my bullets first" in their front windows, so I will be over there in case you need somewhere to hang out for a bit if mass social strife happens.
And in the event of necessary self sufficiency, the horses don't need gasoline and the herd of cows and goats? Well? Beef or Goat for tacos tomorrow? I hope you like chicken tenders because the Quail's life span from egg to edible is 8 weeks and boy do they procreate!
Good on you! :up: We will be here when you get back! Promise!
Posty, the rank and file should be held as sacred today as they were back in the days of Hoover. I have had the rare opportunity to watch some of young men and women, who are being educated and groomed for career position in the Alphabet communities and I have never been more impressed with a balanced generation of 'thinkers'.
It is not to be repaired but adaptable for change. Americas ability to reinvent ourselves is at the core of who we are. :heart:
Commmere you little [s]rod[/s]hamster :angry:
Sometimes my wife puts the celery seed in, but usually not. I'd try it with sugar before I sent it back to the chef. The same dressing makes the best macaroni salad.
Here's a link to some Churchill insults that might be of help.
http://billanddavescocktailhour.com/the-churchill-wit/
Are you suggesting that because you have never felt the need to protect yourself with a firearm, that no else in the world feels the need to protect themselves with a firearm? If so, I invite you outside of your cubicle and visit places where walking down the street is always risky.
:rofl:
(So glad I followed that link. Brilliant! Completely not what I was expecting).
"In 2014, the FBI reports there were only 224 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm. That same year, there were 7,670 criminal gun homicides. Guns were used in 34 criminal homicides for every justifiable homicide.
Intended victims of violent crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 1.1 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2013 and 2015.
Intended victims of property crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 0.2 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2013 and 2015."
http://www.vpc.org/revealing-the-impacts-of-gun-violence/self-defense-gun-use/
My favorite was ‘Eat it raw, fuzz-nuts.'
It's from the long-lamented National Lampoon. If my memory is correct, it's from the 70s.
Here you say successful gun use in self defense, whereas you've most recently changed the goal posts by finding a source that only details homicides in relation to successful gun use in self defense. In other words, you must still prove to me that use of a gun in self defense without killing someone is extremely rare. I doubt, however, that you'll be able to do so, which is why I was and still am amused by your first assertion.
Regardless, my Google skills don't exceed yours, so if you need data supporting or denying my position, Google away.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/puzzles/5839128/general-knowledge-drill-quiz/
Even I just ACED it!!
One of the advantages of age is perspective. It is so frustrating to hear people complain about the current state of affairs in this country with no apparent understanding of how bad things have been in the past or how many good things there are now. I have a close friend from my high school in southern Virginia who vividly remembers the humiliation she felt as a girl walking past the bus passengers in the front as she moved to the back to find a seat for herself.
It's more than frustration, I feel anger. These people are intellectually lazy and self-centered. It's the same attitude that leads so many of them to believe the world is a bad place.
There. I feel better now.
Who needs skills, anyway, with an education like this?
If a trained gun user can injure three students in a gun safety lesson, without the aid of any demented terrorists, I can't really see the average teacher being much use in a crisis, unless your teachers are in a whole other league to ours. Oh, wait, this was one of your teachers. Now what I need here is a facepalm upgrade - face-napalm, perhaps.
When will they ever learn? If the kids had been allowed to have guns, they could have shot the teacher in time to prevent this tragedy.
Opportunity missed. :sad:
(Obviously should've replied with "Is a false statement").
That's not the point you wrote out, so good try backtracking. You obviously don't want to defend what you yourself said which is fine, just know that if you're going to throw out bullshit claims again, "just google it" is not a worthwhile reply.
I asked if anyone really believed them, I did not say that I did.
And anyway, what was your score? Or did you chicken out because it is beneath you to try.
Go on I dare you.
Just because it is the Sun does not mean it has to be bad. Page 3 used to be great.
So much emotion!
Why are you coming off your mood stabilizer? Has your mood stabilized or are you just sick of taking the med?
I wish you all the best, and hope you can keep a small centre of calm in the whirlwind. Because you're worth it, as they say. :heart:
Happy roller coaster ride.
Hahahahahah!! :rofl: This is for @TimeLine :lol:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/03/18/stephen-hawking-leaves-behind-breathtaking-final-multiverse/
To be honest, I really think you are right that this is a serious problem. I mean, I already feel this in the economic environment. The world is a lot more competitive today in business (and not only, in sports too, etc.) than ever before. And something has to give at one point. The population increase is but one reason of this hyper-competitiveness. The more people, the harder you need to fight to stand out, to win the job, succeed in the business, be the champion, etc.
You take pretty much any Top ATP tennis player today - say rank 200, and make them play world no. 1 from 1960, and the world no.1 won't stand a chance. When I watch pre-Open era tennis matches, I feel it really was a game back then. Now it is more like a battle, and the players really are warriors. And it is so in all spheres of life.
We have a trigger word list that automatically sends comments to the moderation queue if they contain certain words. Yours was picked up for "moronic".
Where can I find that list to review it?
I thought you were joking, but I tried to respond to your post and included a quote and It was tagged. This is pretty silly.
I hope I can make it through it.
I don't think we've decided what to do with people who intentionally subvert the filter yet. ;)
What comment? Is the wildfire of paranoia spreading?
:rofl: The one I made about 1 hour ago?
Would you like to tell me what was actually in it, so I can go check for you, your highness?
You guys must be really busy.
There are already enough moderator conspiracy theories out there. No need to start more.
Quoting Michael
Granted that almost all of Maw's posts contain at least one insults, you'll have quite a bit of work to do in the future :rofl:
LOL - I didn't remember, but it's back now. Thanks :lol:
sounds interesting. Do tell...
Maybe. Can't take credit for this round of fun though.
I'm not a mod, do you recommend that I be promoted? :naughty:
"Moron" was the only word, and only added recently. But that's removed now, so you don't have to worry about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moron_(psychology)
Rest easy. We are not actually going to ban talk of any country or nationality regardless of spam origin.
What can I say? [redacted] doesn't have the largest vocabulary.
You've got it backwards. On the forum, it's a struggle not to use the word.
As in, it took him 11 minutes to say the one sentence that I said about yoga being simply exercise and stretching and all that higher plain gobbledegook is bullshit? I don't have a problem with him, the fact that he told the theosophists to sod off is enough to gain my respect, but that's about it really.
Oh but some of them lasses had good pairs on them, no doubt about it.
But any, did you try the test? I wanted to discuss the validity of it with someone.
It seems to me that any test of general knowledge must have a certain value, no matter the source of the test. Or are you one of those people that judges books my their covers?
The next step is to drop everything on your chest and see how well you can withstand the pain.
Edit: not added to moderation queue.
@Michael @jamalrob
Present and ready for service Sir.
Posty, never forget we are here. I know how it can feel to be out on your own hike, listening to the noises of the world that have been hushed for a while. Be easy on yourself, use the tool of "Worry time" and remember there will come a time when the laughs come as easy as the negative thoughts. Hang on, keep a simple grip, know when you are treading water and when you are going down and remember to keep talking.
{{{{Posty}}}} One minute at a time my friend, one minute at a time :heart:
Just curious as to who his boss is...
I was just wondering if he has someone who he has to atone to. :chin:
And so the little man climbed up on a rickety ladder, to the heavenly lands
And he shed a tear, 'it's all so queer and it doesn't seem clear'
Now God was sitting easy in a heavenly chair
Breathing deep and lazy on the heavenly air
The little man got near him just to get right from wrong
Said 'God are you responsible for all that goes on'
God looked up from having a heavenly think
He gave that little questioner a heavenly wink, saying
'men have coloured me with the colours of their minds
So I find
They use me as an excuse for all kinds of goofs
And for crimes of all kinds
All your so hard facts painted thinly on the void
Why were you not more pleasantly employed
Anything you want to do, I'm happy if you make it go right
And it's true if it makes you happy you know it makes the
World more bright
And you shall have liberty
It always was yours anyway
You're one of my kind, you're an infinite mind
You make each new day
There's nothing more I can say'.
Ouch! Just been hit by lightning! I think God is sending a message.
Here's a quote from the Tao Te Ching I use as often as I can:
The Tao is like a well:
used but never used up.
It is like the eternal void:
filled with infinite possibilities. It is hidden but always present.
I don't know who gave birth to it.
It is older than God.
I guess that means the Tao has seniority.
The Tao Te Ching was written about -600 BCE. I looked on the web and there are a long list of Chinese gods.
I've always thought Lao Tzu wasn't referring to any specific god or gods, just god or gods in general. I may be wrong.
:rofl: :rofl:
Thanks for the link. Keep in mind that there is Taoist philosophy and Taoist religion. The religion sometimes interprets the Tao Te Ching literally so there are beliefs in immortality and sexual practices.
Releasing the hounds on Moses88 .... hope you can sprint a few miles....
Daddy? :gasp:
The dogs are suggesting otherwise
This dude needs better things to do.
I thought we’ve established she’s a lady.
I don't like seeing TPF members harassed. :down:
I told you I am pretty good at this gender thing. :wink:
A fool who has nothing better to do. That is what is going on.
Calling the dogs back to their original work detail. :meh:
It looks quite run down to be honest...
Hedgehog's are cruel by nature, that's why they have spikes on their backs to impale people (& hamsters) on.
no... :snicker:
https://twitter.com/mosesquine88
Here's him addressing me (and others): Some members of ‘the philosophy forum’ are stupid….
This forum is starting to feel a lot like kindergarten playground.
LOOOOOOOOL - it is actually a good description! :lol:
That sounds like some of the weird stuff @TimeLine says :rofl:
Unless you're a banned member who's returned under a new name? :chin:
All of a sudden shit gets real. :rage:
"You are a clinical psychopath. I will murder you. Don't expect that you will be alive in the future."
Not about you being a psychopath! :joke:
It might be time to drop the humor, understand the gravity of such a threat and move along. Maybe?
OMG the hit of anything that resembles math scares the crap out of me!
Ugh and she's down
Don’t worry, these are fake maths. Like the ones they teach at the Trump University.
I got contacts.
I'm not. That's just a picture of him that he took.
:naughty:
It's good to have info on people who are threatening and possibly dangerous.
Yes, although I don't want to give away too many details about him. He made the picture above public, so it's fair game I think.
What would you like me to have on you? :eyes:
:eyes:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I want him to say something about me! I wonder if he has said anything about me... :chin:
Yes, he said:
Sapientia believes that Guy Ritchie is the second largest cheese burger in Warwick.
Yes.
Quoting Mr Phil O'Sophy
Yes.
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Nah.
Quoting Mr Phil O'Sophy
Pushover.
Quoting Baden
Hansom guy. :lol:
I think the ideal time to have one is 12 weeks, so this law really shouldn't make much difference.
This should be fun. :grin:
https://philosophiaetveritas.wordpress.com/2018/03/07/some-attitude-of-bill-clinton/
I disagree. I think it's just his humour. It's what's known as anti-humour, I think. It's not supposed to make sense. I could easily create a blog like that and contribute to it over the years. Would you be concerned about my mental health, too?
https://philosophiaetveritas.wordpress.com/2018/01/21/the-actual-conversation-occurred-in-december-2017/
:rofl:
wot
You know what would make it fun? Do it, but do it Moses-style. :lol: :up:
Wow now, let's not be hasty, friendo :snicker:
Also, how does it make sense to escape philosophy by coming to a...philosophy forum?
Your crying won't affect him. He's stony-faced.
[hide]
And then gradually disappear, leaving only your grin.
Yeah, is facebook a thing anymore? I can't tell. I seem to use it less and less, which I have no problem with. I just saw on insta that you can now shop there?? wtf is that??
Anyway, I use Facebook less and less too. Few of my friends use it frequently, some have left entirely, and it has transformed into a literal newsfeed rather than a social feed (ever since they became explicitly competitive with Twitter). Any remaining social aspects of it are just people tagging each other in memes, or posting baby pictures, or other crap I don't care about.
I currently use Instagram more than Facebook, but I'm using that less and less too. It's becoming, as you said, overly commercialized.
I used Snapchat here and there several years ago, but stopped because it was just too much. Now it looks like Instagram stories killed it. No one my age group uses it anymore. Twitter isn't that significant either. It's been their saving grace that Trump uses it nonstop, otherwise they'd be mostly culturally irrelevant.
So what else even is there? I'm disconnected from the younger "Generation Z" (which, for their sake, I hope they get a better appellation), so I have no clue as to what's popular.
Right? To be fair though, every time the city freaks out about a storm, it ends up being a fraction of what it was rumored to be. I'm not too worried about tomorrow, although the timing sucks, as I had a three day weekend, and tomorrow is my monday.
I have to use facebook for music; all of my musician friends constantly post about their shows/happenings...but even with that, the more FB becomes a show calendar, the less likely I am to go to shows, other than the shows my closest friends/collaborators are actually putting on.
Quoting Maw
One thing I appreciate about insta is that you scroll through, and you can really only look at one photo at a time. Whereas the scroll experience on FB is actually more overwhelming, because I can see text blocks, photos, videos, memes, links, etc., all at once. But yes, the commercialization of insta and social media in general is quite ironic; these massive tech companies that are politically left are, in reality, the cusp of capitalism's wave.
Quoting Maw
A worse issue is that we're all sheep; snapchat closes, and we all just flock to instagram. What happens when instagram closes? We'll just flock to the next outlet. Ad nausea. And what then? What's the end game? There's a clear teleological assumption with social media, but the actual teleological end game is not at all clear.
Right, the last snow storm lasted for hours, but nothing really stuck, and anything that did melted within a few days. It should be warm enough that very little will stick again.
Quoting Noble Dust
I think the issue with Instagram vs. Snapchat was that, initially, waaay more people were on Instagram than Snapchat, and, originally, they served different purposes. But when Instagram launched "stories" in mid-2017 to compete with Snapchat, the platform had around 700 million monthly users vs. Snapchat's 170ish million monthly users, rendering Snapchat effectively unnecessary.
But the question then is: what would be next? The platforms that have all the people I'd like to stay "connected" with are shit, are "old", or are dying. Where will people flock to next?
To me the question is: why is something going to be next? We can feel smart and progressive while we sit here and try to predict the next social media craze; but why are we so apparently at the mercy of a technocratic world in which we drink whatever poison is offered du jour? Why can't we shut off?
That's an accurate description, but it doesn't address the why questions I was asking.
I think i'm going in for the "meta"-why questions; the two-year-old questions. Why are we addicted to social media? When we say "addiction", is it figurative or literal? If it's figurative, then what do we mean when we say "addiction"? If it's literal, what is scientifically and spiritually happening when we become addicted? Let's not beat around the bush; let's address whatever this thing is.
I don't have an opinion, but the idea is no more preposterous than the virgin birth of Jesus or the big bang theory.
Mods tinkering with the filter has now effected one of my replies. Interesting. No big deal though.
"In the heat of the summer night
In the land of the dollar bill"
A riddle! Is it an escalator?
Actually.
@jamalrob put it back in in a way that doesn't affect oxymoron.
Really? Moments like these make the American presidential candidate debates worth watching:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AE2t_6aMcF8
And there's more where that came from!
Yes.
Smashing me because of my Irish tubers is unforgivable.
Who you calling a little bawbee, you miniscule bawbee!
Makes you wonder; does he actually mean anything he says, or does he just like to be popular? I'm guessing the latter.
Yeah. Cambridge Analytica.
Cambridge Analytica: The data firm's global influence:
And here the whistleblower talks about how CA tested the idea of a "deep state" as far back as 2014.
So it seems to me that this nonsense of a "deep state" is being fabricated by a political firm trying to influence opinion and policy, and all these accusations of "fake news" are being directed by fake news. How ironic.
Populists are being played by big business. And by Russians.
I really doubt that by the latter. They get their advice from big business too. The Ukraine and Georgia conflict was engineered to shift public attention away from terrible economic performance (check the decreasing popularity of the government at that time), to national pride & strength. It worked, approval ratings jumped to 90% (from 60%) in virtually no time. They are still at those levels.
And here's the thing - those people in charge in those countries - virtually ALL the Eastern countries without exception, are dumb as hell, but they make up for lack of intelligence through brutality & shamelessness. I know for certain that they would NEVER dream of such ingenious schemes. These are the kinds of people who are authentic idiots and who really have no morality whatsoever (to the point that they don't care what the truth is, they just care what is good for them - they don't even perceive that they're doing anything wrong). Someone has to do it for them for sure. Like, do you know those bums in the UK who don't have a job, drink, smoke, and hate immigrants? That's the intelligence level of those people. Corruption and brutality, combined with building a network of similar people around you (who are incapable, but willing to use whatever methods necessary) can take you very far.
I vote for "bumberclat," which TL introduced.
Not to be confused with boaby.
Pennies. Facebook is still up 20% compared to 1 year ago.
"Tell you my salary! Hey, that's personal!"
I could not read anymore. How is it possible for such egregious mistakes to crop up in the work of a world-renowned scientist? I mean even a philosophy undergraduate could easily tell him that Epicurus did not oppose atomism...
Being dismissive of philosophy in general promotes the creation of sheer howlers. Being dismissive of any discipline does that.
Talk about taking things out of context...
http://newepicurean.com/epicurus/letter-to-menoeceus-reference-translation/
Worth a read.
Last night I was reading the Bible. I could not read more than 1 page, and after that, I threw the book out the window. When it started saying things like:
"she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit".
I could not read it anymore. How is it possible for such egregious mistakes to crop up? I mean even a biology undergraduate could easily tell you that this isn't how babies are made.
Maybe the Holy Spirit was a well endowed dude.
Don't know what that involves, but I don't see what extra features we need in the Shoutbox. There are almost 20,000 posts here and there's been only one useful one that I can remember—when Hanover convinced @Posty McPostface not to buy a gun. At least, it's not like the vast majority of it deserves a second look. What problem are we trying to solve?
Not worthy of your attention, Your Highness?
Are you saying the rest of the forum is full of useful posts?
Then they will not have been hit by just about any book... it will be the book of Stephen Hawking - that is something to be proud of :rofl:
Quoting Mr Phil O'Sophy
Yes, that was literarily in the first paragraph of the book. But that in-itself is not a problem. It's a statement that has to be argued for and investigated. Saying untruths about philosophy isn't going to work though.
I watched this one, but Krauss was basically humiliated :lol:
Did I inadvertently insult the spirit of the Shoutbox or something.. ?
Anyway, there is generally more quality elsewhere. For two excellent examples, look no further than fdrake's discussion on Debord and Street's on proteins and politics. You won't find that level in the Shoutbox.
I like to slack at work (case in point; this). I just don't like Slack.
We've had good discussions here, too. I've just had to painstakingly split the comments off elsewhere.
I get it, but I don't think we need the added complication. jrob has final word anyway.
True that.
Yes and karma will hit you with all its force.
No worries. Feel free to continue to bring up any suggestions you think might help. Emojis just got updated though, so probably not going to change for a while.
No, but if one is going to make a critique of philosophy and claim that philosophy is dead, and instead we should look to science, then they should at least show that they understand philosophy, have engaged with it, and then show how they have determined it to be useless.
Quoting Michael
Except that the Bible doesn't claim that that is how babies are made GENERALLY. That is an exception.
Another triumph of Shoutbox quality right there. *Braces for oncoming Tsunami of justice *.
Yes, a miracle, and if Hawkins had only relied on those he could have saved himself a lot of typing. ;)
Another triumph of Baden's snideness.
Come on, dude, I was just setting up the joke. I've probably written hundreds of posts here which I've almost instantly forgotten. That's what the Sb is for.
Ah, yes...
Ah... No.
It's like a dick with teeth. :fear:
We need therapy to forget those.
With you on that; even with the ones I like, I usually regret watching. There's something horribly intrusive about movies that no amount of critical thought can overcome.
Random, I know!
No.
You're reminding me of my day job now. Or most recent day job at least. That's not a good thing. :fire: :)
Editing and proofreading journal articles.
Lol. It's 2am here. I'm sure there's someone else living in a more appropriate time-zone that can help you out. :halo:
I'd rather just listen to them to be honest. Rather soporterrific.
Yes, that is another thing. They really do mess with your brain, to the point I need recovery time after watching something like a horror movie :rofl: I find nothing enjoyable in all this.
Death to Hollywood! :fire: :fire: :death:
All aboard the crazy train.
That narrowed it down to where you live. You should be very afraid... very afraid indeed! :naughty: mwahahahaha!!!
I'm more afraid of my alarm clock to be honest. 3.30am and counting.
Meh, 8.
You know what I'd do? Just don't get up - screw it! Go to one of those Thai doctors, get a note that you're ill, have a day off, relax, smoke a cigar... No stress.
Hm, you know this country well, eh...? What have you been up to?
All corrupt countries are the same ;)
oh, he knows :wink: :smirk:
She's definitely a 16 year old girl from the burbs.
Botched takeover a few years back. Massive losses. One option on the table is to close down the operation and exit the market, meaning I'd be out of a job. Will find out more in June, but don't know if I want to stick around too long after what I've just been reading.
https://www.vox.com/world/2018/3/22/17153338/john-bolton-national-security-adviser-trump-hr-mcmaster
http://reason.com/blog/2016/11/15/five-horrifically-bad-foreign-policy-ide/print
https://thinkprogress.org/scariest-things-john-bolton-said-1d7911538261/
Pretty sure these things are decided by the commander in chief, i.e. the President. If he orders a strike then it has to be carried out, correct?
Yes and no. These are limit situations. Anything can happen at that point.
My point really was that there were multiple voices within the White House that were pro-war with North Korea (for example) even before this new addition.
Like John Bolton, which is the problem Saphsin raised.
This was interesting...
Has sex with Trump while he's married in the famous "love" bungalow.
Feels guilty & sad about it, but continues the affair.
Loved Trump and thought Trump loves her back.
Doesn't really want to tell her story, but tells it anyway.
Is upset that the people who bought her story didn't make her into a star as they had promised.
Is now a good Christian, going back to Church.
Umm... what? :chin: :brow:
Not if Trump is just going to lie about loving me as he did to her.
So... I take it that if he will be honest, then you will go? :blush:
It was worthless. Four pages of garbage.
Was it in the lounge? I haven't seen the thread, but from the title, it doesn't seem "worthless". Though there are some legal privacy issues under the EU GDPR with storing personal data (especially racial profiles, etc.) like that on your database. So from that side of it maybe you do have a point (though again, the information would be randomised, as I suppose you don't store information with regards to who voted what in the polls).
Did it strike a chord with you?
It was not in the Lounge. It was in "Interesting stuff".
Quoting Agustino
Shows how much you can tell from the title.
Extended casual joking around can go here in the Shoutbox. We don't really want that spreading. It's fine where it is, and there shall it stay.
Well, that was an option, but entire discussions are judged on their posts, so if the majority of posts are inconsequential, the discussion is likely to be deleted. It's not a discussion we really need to have anyway, is it? What next? What height are you? What's your favorite color? We've probably had enough of that sort of thing.
What's your size? :eyes: :monkey:
Honestly, I wouldnt be surprised. Anyway, feel free to ask stuff like this here in the Shoutbox, folks, but we don't need whole discussions on these issues.
I think you need a holiday.
Why not? Baden has proven that he is the most handsome guy here, he used to be a male model, no joke - and then he became a philosopher. :joke: He posted about his transformation.
Not a chance!
One time I did sleep with a homosexual in the same bed. I had no other choice. But no sexy time :rofl: And no, I am not attracted to the same sex, to answer your question.
How do you know? You were asleep. :smirk:
I am quite certain that if you feel a submarine probing around the valleys you will be aware, whether you are asleep or not. Maybe you have more experience with this and can confirm my thoughts?
I don't drink except very rarely. At that time I used to drink more frequently, but not that night anyway.
How does it feel to be asleep?
I know the feeling.
Sorry, OPs with blog advertisements are subject to deletion. Don't answer them.
You win. :party:
How do you guys know that?! Did you taste me? :gasp:
Are you ready to see this movie?! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sean Hannity is going to be soooo jealous.
Disagreeing with what you read is fine, I often do that too. However, disagreeing is different than disliking it. If you dislike something, then I don't see why put yourself through it. And from your initial comment it sounded to me like you don't merely disagree with Quillette, but you dislike it (obviously I may be wrong about that, just an impression).
Which is profoundly absurd and naive. Scientific research, whether bunk or not, has always been leveraged by political groups for incendiary purposes, promote and defend toxic ideas, whether merely personal or public policy. The author claims they "might use data about race"? Might? Murray's book has been cited for 25 years to advocate racial differences between groups, and it's naive to think that would magically change. And that the author seemingly thinks that MLK would be fine with this racial realism strikes me as ineffably absurd. It's also curious that the author provides no further information on how we can "promote" such a vision of society, which would strike me as paramount if race realism and disparity were true.
Okay, I see. Well, let's take the issue the article addresses, racial differences in IQ which are grounded in one's biology. Suppose (I'm not claiming that this is the case) that it was proved, beyond any reasonable doubt, that black people, on average, have a lower IQ than white people that is of biological origin. What would follow from that, and how should we organise our society in light of that fact?
Personally, I would say that nothing should follow from it. I cannot judge a particular black person based on statistics that describe average properties of all black people. That particular black person may not be average, he could be exceptionally intelligent, etc. So for all practical considerations, when we're deciding who to hire as a professor (for example), we cannot make appeals to such statistics to racially discriminate, but must rather judge people individually. Would you agree with this?
I suppose there may be some situations where companies and institutions would seek to accept a higher percentage of white applicants compared to blacks, merely because statistically one group has a higher IQ than another. I think this ought to remain illegal personally since it is discrimination - they have no way of knowing if the particular subpopulation of blacks that apply have the same characteristics as the population of blacks as a whole (they may not - perhaps only the more intelligent black people are applying).
Personally I have not decided this particular issue, and I don't think it's very relevant to decide it. I do think there are biological differences between races, sexes, etc. What these differences are is of less interest to me, since I don't see what I'd do with them if I knew them. I can say, for example, that white skin is a lot more sensitive to sunlight and is much likelier to get skin cancer. I don't see why such differences couldn't extend to intellectual capacities, physical ones, etc.
Although, even if they do, I don't see how that is pernicious in and of itself. What we would need to prevent is abuse of these statistics in order to justify oppression. For example, if someone said that white skin is inferior, because of its greater predisposition to cancer, and we ought to try to eliminate it from the world, I would see that as racist, and an abuse of statistics in order to justify oppression.
I do, but the problem is that there are individuals, groups, movements, companies etc. some in greater positions of power than others, why may not. Steven Pinker wrote in The Better Angels Of Our Nature that, “the fact that a hypothesis is politically uncomfortable does not mean that it is false, but it does mean that we should consider the evidence very carefully before concluding that it is true," and it seems abundantly clear to me that contributors and promoters to these kinds of scientific racism hypotheses do not seriously weigh-in opposing evidence, and rather shrug their shoulders, naively.
Okay, so what do you reckon should be done about that? Is it really the most effective solution to combat it by saying "it's definitely not a scientific fact", knowing that, after all, we may be wrong? (it is, in the end, an empirical issue) Wouldn't it be an even stronger victory for the other side, if, after everything, they are proven right, and we basically agreed with their basic presuppositions (namely that if these differences are real, then certain political actions need to follow) through the way we sought to combat them?
I think people need to be better educated in critical thinking. On top of that, the unimportance of biological differences, whatever they are, in deciding political & social issues should be emphasised. The importance of treating each person as an individual is another important factor. That, in my opinion, is the most effective way to combat oppression that can result across racial lines.
The most effective solution is for the appropriate scientific community to promote the research showing that deleterious racial stereotypes are not valid, and denouncing the scientific research that promotes it (e.g. Charles Murray, Wade, Harpending et al.) while highlighting that it is fraught with misinformation, leaps of logic, etc. I think it a good extent, this is already being done.
Okay, so what happens in case that, future scientific research reveals that there are biological differences in IQ between the races in a way that is deemed at that point in time to be conclusive? All hell breaks loose? Oppression becomes justified?
I'm not very confident personally in this strategy, since it depends on issues that are in the end empirical, and could be different. I have always preferred to adopt strategies that are not tied to empirical issues that could be otherwise. To me, oppression cannot be justified by biological differences, and no empirical issue or finding could change this.
Given what we know about genetic research and data already, I sincerely doubt this speculative future will happen. We can certainly continue to promote people as individuals rather merely as members of groups, but in practice, people blur the lines for better or worse. Identity provides meaning, and it's panglossian to believe that we can exclusively think of others, our ourselves, as individuals only, and not part of wider circles, which is why I think your view would be limitedly effective.
Como esta?
Republicans got to be proud of that guy.
Well, we do want to retain our living voters so we can win a vote honestly instead of voting Chicago style where you do so at least three times. Once for you, one for Great Granny and one for Aunt Beth who both passed away years ago but are still on the voting records.
Having said that Frank, you would be SURPRISED how many members of The Philosophy Forum of 1k + members do NOT know CPR.
It was earlier in this thread but no worries.
Yes, I am certified in CPR for Adults and Infants. Self taught CPR on dogs. :hearts:
I am an expert only at the mouth-to-mouth resuscitation part :rofl:
Who's this frog?!
But they never last. People just jump on them so fast the posters just quit. Some of us are not very philosophical. I'd like to get in a civil discussion with an intelligent and sincere Rand supporter, but it won't ever happen here. Randism is not Nazism.
Well, I sent a PM to the poster and said he was welcome to post again without the blog and he responded positively but then he didn't. So far anyway. PM him if you like. I don't know. Rand isn't very popular. Mostly for good reasons. So, if a discussion is started there is likely to be some harsh criticism. But yes, certainly not Nazism.
Wasn't complaining about your action re/ the blog. Just expressing frustration about not being able to have a reasoned discussion about Rand. Not a moderation problem. Well, maybe a moderation problem, but not a moderator problem.
On gun control, Republicans have little choice but to say stuff like that. The NRA gives them ratings like they're a bunch of naughty schoolchildren. Should they stray even slightly from absolute submission, they lose their A+'s and a significant proportion of their base.
How dreary – to be – Somebody!
How public – like a Frog –
To tell one’s name – the livelong June –
To an admiring Bog!
E. Dickinson
Roger that.
But damn they got nice watches, those frogs.
The French are OK in small dribs
I wasn't alluding to the French there (lest I become the subject of Gallic ire).
Agustino, the current idea for hands only CPR is Chest compressions without mouth to mouth, though there are limitations.
I remember when this idea first came on the scene when we were at the lake house for the summers. Powerful knowledge saves lives. To help a drowning victim
Before CPR came around, back when Boy Scouts learned the arm lift/back push method, I did that on a cocker spaniel who had bitten through an electrical chord. He was fine, although I think he would have been ok without my efforts.
Depressing but... life is like that.
I don't know if he learned anything, but I never saw him do it again.
I was an emergency medical technician on my town's ambulance for 25 years. I probably did CPR 15 times and no one ever lived, but normally, we got there 10 minutes after the call came in. Who knows how long before that the attack took place. If it's going to work, it has to start right away.
[quote="Buzz Killington";166499"]Agustino, the current idea for hands only CPR is Chest compressions without mouth to mouth, though there are limitations.
I remember when this idea first came on the scene when we were at the lake house for the summers. Powerful knowledge saves lives. To help a drowning victim[/quote]
Was she not interested in the roast itself?
Anti-intellectualism Is Killing America
[sup]Social dysfunction can be traced to the abandonment of reason[/sup]
David Niose
Jun 2015
Hanover, the current idea for animal welfare is that the lives of cats are of greater importance than the retrieval of meaty string, no matter how tasty it may be.
Yours Humourlessly,
Buzz Killington.
Did we discuss this already? Loved the recent movie with Gary Oldman, but haven't seen the OG TV series. It's just a generational thing, I think, but I need to check the series out, do love Alec Guinness, of course. But you should watch the movie as well. Maybe we can trade. Actually, Oldman's performance isn't even the best performance in that movie; Tom Hardy steals the show with a supporting role, and there's so many other great performances. I have a thing for espionage, for some reason.
That'll larn ya'
Mirrors don't count, buddy.
Shall I try on you then? :kiss:
[hide="Reveal"]Kidding :lol:[/hide]
You're such a lesbian.
@Lone Wolf - there is another hamster around here!! :'O
LOOOOOOL :rofl:
Stormy: "I should take that [Trump] magazine and spank you with it [...] Turn around and drop them."
Cooper: "You told Donald Trump to turn around and take off his pants?"
Stormy: "Yes."
Cooper: "And did he?"
Stormy: "Yes. So he turned around and pulled his pants down ... " :rofl: :rofl:
Trump will get humiliated now, Stormy's lawyer is crazy.
Yes, we did discuss it before. It's just that I'm watching it gain and loving it again and wanted to tell someone again.
I don't know if TL is creeped out, but I certainly am.
Oddly enough, that creeps me out less. My life is almost over. I have less to lose than TL. She has her whole life ahead of her.
While it has been entirely ineffective for cardiac arrest, I have found it effective for curing hiccups.
:'O not in that way lol.
By watching programs about procrastination avoidance techniques, you can avoid doing something more useful.
It doesn't matter. Do something in the general vicinity of correct. Important - make sure they're not actually breathing before you start.
I should suffocate them before doing CPR?
Creepy - just a touch of necrophilia. Hanover has odd tastes.
Why not? Is that not what you do for a living?
And if not BC than who?
(sorry a bit stressed at the moment)
And yet you're a horse.
That podcast came up as a recommendation on my podcast app. I wasn't expecting all that much but it's actually pretty good. Listening to episode 124 now.
https://youarenotsosmart.com/2018/03/26/yanss-124-belief-change-blindness/
Quoting unenlightened
No judgements, just wondering how that would work.
Oh fer ducks sake! I never saw the frog and until @Agustino pointed it out! Here I was going to change my avatar to have a horse in it but alas it is not meant to be.
Hmmmm..... I do like Foxes!
That smells like British to me...
Do you have a good reason for believing that it does? I believe that all living organisms on Earth are related to each other genetically through a common ancestor, but I don't know if I can make a convincing case. It strikes me that explaining to someone why you believe something is true is more convincing than explaining why it is true. More respectful. Less aggressive.
First - establish cosmological/geological time. If they don't believe that the Earth has been around for 5 billion years, give or take, the rest is pointless. This strikes me as the really hard part. Seems like if you could get that, the rest would be relatively easy.
In that case, I am afraid that you'll have to tell them that they are right... :rofl:
I'll get back to you both later. Right now I have to go toil for 8 hours.
Tell that to the birds
Tell them to read Darwin's Origin of Species. It is a well conceived, beautifully written book, and still relevant after 150 years.
I've done it cover to cover twice.
If for no other reason than the fact that the English is so great to read - shew them the book.
Would you be willing to read the Bible and give it a fair hearing? I don't think that's likely from people on either side of this discussion. Origin of Species is not the kind of book that would convince a firm disbeliever. Also, there are things in there that are no longer part of mainstream biology. I was really surprised when I read to find that Darwin described inheritance of acquired characteristics as one of the possible mechanisms of evolution. It is also my understanding that Darwin's emphasis of natural variation of characteristics within a species as the primary source of variation for natural selection is no longer accepted.
And why did that surprise you exactly?
Quoting T Clark
References?
Quoting T Clark
I gave it a fair hearing and it still sounds like make-believe rubbish.
Are you sure that’s not Aleister Crowley?
Inheritance of acquired characteristics - Lamarckism - is generally described as an explanation for evolution that was supplanted by natural selection. I have read a fair amount about Darwin, evolution, and natural selection, and no one ever mentioned it.
Quoting CuddlyHedgehog
When I read OoS, Darwin's description made a lot of sense to me. The naturally occurring variation in a species provided the range of behaviors needed for natural selection to act. I thought I understood. I was recently reading "What is Life" by Edwin Schrodinger, the physicist. It was written in 1944 and was very influential. He indicated that Darwin had been wrong, that it is not natural variation, but mutation, that provides targets for natural selection. That seems like a pretty significant error in Darwin's theory. I haven't had time to track it down yet.
Quoting CuddlyHedgehog
It seems like you probably aren't capable of giving a theistic explanation an open mind. I don't have any problem with that. Why would you expect a theist to be more [s]open minded[/s] sympathetic than you are.
It doesn’t deserve it.
Quoting T Clark
I don’t. My expectations of a theist’s open mindedness are pretty low.
Howdie, T.
Mutation, if it doesn’t lead to death, leads to one form of natural variation. Darwin hadn’t yet learned about Mendel’s work on inheritance (inferred genes via peapod experiments) when we wrote his theses. Still, say that Aleister Crowly had offspring. They’d all be different (some arguments on identical twins being different or identical as product of interaction with differing life-long first-person contexts, but most animals aren’t identical twins anyway … still, you do have lifeforms that reproduce mainly asexually, so that offspring are genetically identical to the parent if not for mutations and the occasional sexual hookup; but even (some?) bacteria exchange genes in an odd uni-sexual kind of way). Getting back to Al, some of his kids would be taller and some shorter, and so on. If they can all survive and reproduce, these variations would then be further passed down in a somewhat complex way (receive traits can skip generations, etc.). But say that Al did a magic spell that accidently made all doors in the world rather short and, furthermore, that the people that couldn’t walk through these short doors while fully upright got turned into toilet drinking, neutered/spayed dogs. (In ordinary life, haphazard things sometimes happen to environments and their niches, after all; just that Al Crowly can safely be inferred to not be responsible for most of it, at least). Al would then only have short grandkids, and a possibly large amount of dogs. OK, my example might be more complex and fictional than it need be. To sum up, though, just because there’s genetic inheritance and mutations to genes doesn’t then in the least make natural variations a non-factor to biological evolution—for, again, mutations are one element that leads to natural variations. Viva la diferanse! (and croissants)
Asking a physicist about biology is like asking a biologist about physics, I’m thinking. That’s why we have philosophers: to confuse us about all fields of science all at once. :razz:
The Lamarckian trend in Darwin’s writing, btw, was most notable in his “Expression of the Emotions in Man and Animals”, and with good reason at the time—an extremely good work by my standards, btw, especially if one is into the topic of behavioral evolution.
Found it too boring, repetitive and trivial to get past The Book of Genesis. Genuinely tried.
There are good parts, no doubt. But from start to finish...?
Anything I can do to help with that? :snicker:
That might have something to do with much of it being fiction. But it's far from rubbish, as a whole, in my opinion, as well as that of many, many others. It contains some of the best fiction ever written, as well as some rubbish parts which could do with being left out of the final cut.
Check out Job. Also Lamentations.
1 The words of the Teacher,[a] son of David, king in Jerusalem:
2 “Meaningless! Meaningless!”
says the Teacher.
“Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless.”
3 What do people gain from all their labors
at which they toil under the sun?
My fav quasi-atheistic memory verse!!
Yeah I agree, most of it is fairly boring. Which is why I took more of a liking to the Greek myths, as a kid. Much more action.
It's boring to a non-Jewish western reader because we're not familiar with the culture. A commensurate knowledge of the bible as a whole comes from different disciplines; knowledge of the cultures, of Hebrew poetry, of the evolution of Rabbinic tradition and how that plays into interpretations of both the OT and the NT, and an intuition for both philosophical wisdom set against the cultural time, as well as the nature of religious revelation. A willfully anthropologically atheistic reading of any scripture will naturally render it either boring, or a nice historical document to hem and haw over in a nice safe academic setting where any moral or philosophical implications are safely irrelevant.
Quoting Noble Dust
But I am Jewish.
"The Descendants of the Sons of Noah
5 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras. 6 And the sons of Gomer; Ashchenaz, and Riphath, [1] and Togarmah. 7 And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. [2] 8 The sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, Put, and Canaan. 9 And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabta, and Raamah, and Sabtecha. And the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan. 10 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be mighty upon the earth. 11 And Mizraim begat Ludim, and Anamim, and Lehabim, and Naphtuhim, 12 And Pathrusim, and Casluhim, (of whom came the Philistines,) and Caphthorim. 13 And Canaan begat Zidon his firstborn, and Heth, 14 The Jebusite also, and the Amorite, and the Girgashite, 15 And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite, 16 And the Arvadite, and the Zemarite, and the Hamathite. 17 The sons of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram, and Uz, and Hul, and Gether, and Meshech. [3] 18 And Arphaxad begat Shelah, and Shelah begat Eber. 19 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of the one was Peleg; [4] because in his days the earth was divided: and his brother's name was Joktan. 20 And Joktan begat Almodad, and Sheleph, and Hazarmaveth, and Jerah, 21 Hadoram also, and Uzal, and Diklah, 22 And Ebal, and Abimael, and Sheba, 23 And Ophir, and Havilah, and Jobab. All these were the sons of Joktan."
Right. Dude was a kinky bastard. :)
Nice, were you raised in a religious household?
Are you comfortable sharing what you love about it? "Girgashite" is a name that's close to my heart.
Interesting. I'm not Jewish, but the reading I've done on the religion/people in conjunction with what I know about the Bible (from a conservative Evangelical upbringing) has, and still makes scripture pretty interesting, although I haven't read it in over a year or so. Didn't mean to assume anything about your background or knowledge of those things. If you found it boring, then you found it boring. But there's more there, if one is willing to look. And I'm saying that as a former Christian.
Actually, it's funny to hear folks say how boring the bible is, versus any given philosophical text...but anyways.
It is my understanding he didn't live long enough to learn about Mendel.
Quoting javra
It is my understanding, maybe, that this isn't true.
Quoting javra
It is my understanding, maybe, that this isn't true.
Quoting javra
Ok, but that doesn''t mean he was wrong.
So is your lack of response an acknowledgment of my point? That you find the bible boring because you haven't properly studied it, regardless of the fact that your'e a "not too religious" conservative Jew by heritage, and only studied the gist of the OT and the NT itself in college? And appear to be some sort of atheist, based on other threads?
Lol don't act like an overly attached significant other. I'm not obligated to immediately respond, particularly since it's very late at night (for both of us). I'll respond tomorrow if I remember; too tired for anything else.
pffft :rofl: Try acting like anything other than an overly attached significant other.
That is essentially what I'm attempting to do, but I've been unimpressed with my ability to succinct and convincing evidence. I was hoping for a link or two.
Quoting T Clark
He says he is no longer a young earth creationist, so that's a start.
Quoting Agustino
Are you being facetious or do you have good reasons to think this? Perhaps I should start a topic..
Quoting charleton
The problem with this is that it only documents changes within species and not pure speciation. This person believes evolution is real, but doesn't believe it results in new species.
I agree, but I think it depends on what book and what chapter one happens to flip open.
Massage? :joke:
It's boring because of, for example:
[quote=Book of Genesis, Chapter 5][5:3] When Adam had lived one hundred thirty years, he became the father of a son in his likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth.
[5:4] The days of Adam after he became the father of Seth were eight hundred years; and he had other sons and daughters.
[5:5] Thus all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred thirty years; and he died.
[5:6] When Seth had lived one hundred five years, he became the father of Enosh.
[5:7] Seth lived after the birth of Enosh eight hundred seven years, and had other sons and daughters.
[5:8] Thus all the days of Seth were nine hundred twelve years; and he died.
[5:9] When Enosh had lived ninety years, he became the father of Kenan.
[5:10] Enosh lived after the birth of Kenan eight hundred fifteen years, and had other sons and daughters.
[5:11] Thus all the days of Enosh were nine hundred five years; and he died.
[5:12] When Kenan had lived seventy years, he became the father of Mahalalel.
[5:13] Kenan lived after the birth of Mahalalel eight hundred and forty years, and had other sons and daughters.
[5:14] Thus all the days of Kenan were nine hundred and ten years; and he died.
[5:15] When Mahalalel had lived sixty-five years, he became the father of Jared.
[5:16] Mahalalel lived after the birth of Jared eight hundred thirty years, and had other sons and daughters.
[5:17] Thus all the days of Mahalalel were eight hundred ninety-five years; and he died.
[5:18] When Jared had lived one hundred sixty-two years he became the father of Enoch.
[...]
[/quote]
:yawn:
Do I detect a lack of... seriousness? :brow:
No...
I seriously want you to give me a massage!
What is his account for the emergence of new species?
Actually Darwin does account for that. If a species is a group of living things that are capable of mating, by definition. Darwin showed that species of tortoise in the Galapagos separated by islands because separated and unable to mate.
If he accepts that species change where does he think all that change leads to? Why were their no humans 65 million years ago?
Would you like a happy ending with your massage?
Absolutely, what kind of massage is that without happy ending? :brow:
Okay, I'll let Hanover know.
Sorry, no owls are available at the present time. But we do have a special offer, if you're interested. For only $5, Amy Schumer will sit on your face.
I presume this involves myself being paid $5 to allow that to happen. But even so, the reward is not enough because money is always gone in the end, but the memory will persist. So I'm afraid I will have to decline, regardless of the sum.
:joke:
Excellent! Congratulations (Y)
Gefeliciteerd dude! :smile:
I want to be Jewish too! I have always felt closer to the Jewish traditions, stereotypes, cuisine to cook and the awesome sense of humor.
But @Benkei told me years ago, as much as I might want to be Jewish I can't be. I said I would be willing to consider converting my faith. NO.
Now Maw, you tell me, can I only dream of being Jewish or can it actually happen in life?
Wooooooooooooo Hoooooooooooooooooo!! CONGRATULATIONS BENKEI!
Shhhhh little Archie is sleeping.......
How did the name Archie come around?
Awwwww I am sooo happy for you!!!
How is your better half? Is she doing well? Do you get time off to be at home with the new baby?
To answer your question, I find The Bible of general interest as an historically important document. As literature, I find it mostly boring, and I sincerely doubt that's due because of my lack of religion. I don't think "a proper" study of the bible, whatever that might entail, would change my stance. Perhaps finding the Bible interesting is like trying to find God for yourself. You can try all you'd like, but for some it's just not there.
You can definitely convert to Judaism, as long as you're not doing it purely for the jokes.
Lucky boy. Born in the Netherlands. Congratulations. That's like ....23 pounds, right?
Is there anything more involved?
Holy crap I hope your wrong! 23 lbs is like delivering a toddler! :gasp:
I was just demonstrating American's ignorance of the metric system. It's about 28 grams per ounce. 16 ounces per pound, that makes....79 pounds.
We aren't that good at arithmetic either.
So, are you saying that it's not true that the X-Man mutants have variation between them, even though they each have a unique genetic mutation?
More seriously, how can non-lethal mutations logically not lead to genetic variations in a gene pool? Philosophically, that is. But this ties into my question about the X-Man (or X-Men, I forget).
Here is my understanding - Darwin believed that evolution is driven by the normal variation in traits in organisms. Not mutations, just the bell-curve variation you see in properties governed by chance. Scientists have come to understand that just normal variation will not breed true so you need an actual change in genetic material, a mutation, to move evolution forward.
As I indicated, that is my understanding. I'm not sure it's correct. Here's what Edwin Schrodinger said in "What is Life," written in 1944. That is the source for my understanding. It is on my list to track down and verify.
We know definitely, today, that Darwin was mistaken in regarding the small, continuous, accidental variations, that are bound to occur even in the most homogeneous population, as the material on which natural selection works. For it has been proved that they are not inherited.
By the way, "What is Life" is a wonderful essay. It is available as a PDF on the web, although the version I found has a bunch of transcription errors. I bought a Kindle version for $0.99.
The heck is that supposed to mean??? (Insert emoticon scratching it head) You mean our kids don't inherit our genes? (BTW, Congratulations to, and for, the newborn, Benkei) And this has been proven to not be? How's that suppose to work?
Doesn't make me covet a reading of this PDF.
If the guy would have argued that what Darwin proposed in terms of inheritance is not sufficient, that would then be understandable (there's still some disagreement between gradualism and punctuated equilibrium, for example), but not that its proven that we don't inherit variations with a gene pool from our parents. BTW, even mutations necessarily have to be relatively small and incremental among sexual species at the very least, otherwise the mechanisms of reproduction among sexual organisms couldn't work (never mind that whole finding of a mate attractive thing).
I've been on a diet, so I've actually had a lot of practice translating grams to ounces and ounces to pounds recently.
You are a lucky man.
Yes, but that value will greatly increase with time ...
I'll give you $400,000 and a bucket of fried chicken.
Oh, just under half a stone. Why didn't you just say so?
Sighs~
:clap: :clap: :hearts:
I cannot believe I am saying this but that is the value before it has been "cut" or "stepped on" to lower the potency but line the wallets.
Or....maybe Hanover knew that. :brow:
@Hanover does that bucket of fried chicken come with fried gizzards?
(@Benkei Hanover recently disclosed a nip of necrophillia :gasp: )
My grown male children would agree with you. Both are trying to get off this continent before it goes under politically. :yikes:
Gizzards are good no matter how you make them as long as you feed them to the dog.
It amazes me how much of the US has place names from the American Indians. It's certainly true in New England. I think I'll do put some Indian place names in as words of the day.
Gotta keep the excitement under control....... :party:
:rofl: :lol: :rofl:
ShhhhhhhlolOLOlOLoLOlllshhhhhh
Think of it as a merit badge. :100:
Generally speaking, eating the cleaning systems of another creature is not a good thing to do. Poor Fred :sad: Maybe that is what is turning him demonic? :naughty:
So don't eat the maid?
No, you're confusing New Zealand with places like Sioux City, South Dakota where the Sioux Indians were still being scalped after your parents were born.
Such a soft ball for you Hanover, are you feeling okay?
No, don't let Fred eat the maid because your homeowners insurance would not be happy,[s]certainly not as happy as the maid might be, regardless of species.[/s]
No one lives in South Dakota, Never has.
Look on the map. It's right under that other state.
Oh and they have one of the seven wonders of the world, which I would like to challenge anyway. What is so flippin amazing of a chisled rock? Diamond cutters do it all day long.
South Dakota has one of my favorite cities - North Sioux City SD. It's across the Big Sioux River from Sioux City Iowa and across the Missouri from South Sioux City Nebraska.
Perhaps when you grow and become more mature, you'll learn that there right times and wrong times to discuss particular subjects.
For what? Not living in Dakota??
Like if you are at a wedding and the couple are exchanging vows and you loudly opine on how non-virgins really shouldn't wear white. :p
Or you're at a Bar Mitzvah and start a discussion about Israel's oppression of the Palestinians with the Rabbi.
No particular reason.
I have already told my children I want them to tell the worst stories about me they can think of at my funeral. I've also asked to be cremated and have my ashes put in the dumpster behind a McDonalds.
Also, once I'm dead, I don't care what you do, but why would you want to make my family feel bad?
As if I would even come to your funeral.
Clarks don’t generally make it past 75, so sometime in the next nine years.
Diogenes of Sinope. :cool:
Well, jokes aside, I fully agree that the right to express our opinions should be mitigated by a knowledge of when doing so is appropriate.
Nice quote.
This is better:
[i]Tan me hide when I'm dead, Fred
Tan me hide when I'm dead
So we tanned his hide when he died, Clyde
And that's it hangin' on the shed![/i]
It's from the Australian National Anthem
You're welcome. Remind me to congratulate the opening in about twenty years time, when it will have long since closed down, despite your bitter perseverance, and we'll both be dead.
https://youtu.be/DY_DF2Af3LM
I've always been good to come to my friends' funerals, so they'll come to mine.
Are any of us friends enough to be invited to each other's funerals? Probably not.
How can you say that? After all we have been through? I’m shocked.
That being said, you don't actually get an invite to come to a funeral. You sort of hear about it and go or not, but it's not like a wedding where you see it coming and plan the big day.
When I die, I want them to play Hava Nagila on the bag pipes.
https://youtu.be/8Mus-Mcq-so
I have already bought a ticket for your funeral.
Hey, I’ve actually missed it! Spooky!
Which part? :chin:
Is it a male cat? :grimace:
Now I remember why I stopped coming to this thread. :worry:
There's a name for it. It's called a "Hanoverism." @TimeLine is responsible for the concept. She apparently finds him amusing.
Because of pancreas jokes?
You'd actually be surprised at the diversity of views among Jews on this issue.
You're doing it wrong. Render her unconscious and use a scalpel.
There's a thousand points in between. Quoting Benkei
I suspect you're being sarcastic, but I'm going to do it because you suggested it.
I suspect you're being sarcastic, but I'm going to do it because you suggested it.
I just don't think you guys would ever steer me wrong. :hearts:
I didn't offer congrats.
I wish I could find the same affinity for South Dakota as you my friend. My first introduction to South Dakota was taking two flights to get there from AZ, one a perfectly good plane, the second was a balsa wood puddle jumper with no bathroom and we could see out the front window. :gasp: No bueno. :angry:
The second introduction was when I asked to use the bathroom (coming from Chicago think indoor plumbing) and I was directed to this wood shack that was over the river and inside was a hole with a toliet seat over it, with a pink fuzzy toliet cover, not just for the lid. :vomit:
Yeah.....no.
Have you ever been to Chicago T Clark? :pray:
That falls under the same etiquette rule of not opening a can of beer in the chapel during the blessing at a funeral.
You might be surprised. We have lost two members to the other side and both were genuinely mourned and remembered.
As I told @Bitter Crank ya'll better have someone to log onto here and let one of us know that you have passed. You really have no idea how much of a family we are here but you are a member of our family. :heart:
Ohhh can we do the dance too? We did that dance at every wedding I attended! :clap:
Do not be worried, when I die, I plan to make sure there will be a great celebration, the world over. I will arrange for all of you to be invited. No more of this crying, death too should be a moment of celebration as the fulfilment of the natural cycle. There is something disgusting and wormish about a man who is so attached to life that he cannot let go.
And what about the people who don't want him to go but he is actively making decisions to go anyway? Say for instance, a man who needs a CAT scan to see if he has had a stroke but refuses. Why? It's noninvasive and with an Oxygen saturation rate of 96%, a perfectly paced heart and lungs that are as clear as a bell, yet the man gasps for every breath.
Well I do not know about who this "him" is, so can't really give you my thoughts, but as with regards to me, I will go when my time comes, I have no part to play in it. I have no reason to go away, I love life, I will stay as much as possible. And I am not a quitter. Only God decides when to call us back.
He is my step Dad here in AZ who has refused three Doctor's orders in one day to go to the ER for a CAT scan to see if it's in his brain. I agree it is between God and him but he can accelerate the process.
Yeah, I've seen many people like that. My father is very similar in attitude to that, whenever it comes to doctors and medical treatments. Many of those people do not understand the medical procedures and are afraid of them, or don't trust them. Or they just want the struggle to be over, they're sick of it. And they're afraid to deal with the problem, they want to run away from it as much as possible. It takes great strength, psychological strength, not to run from problems, but face them head-on, regardless of what happens to remain determined to solve them, to go to the very end. And you can only face problems alone, ultimately.
My Mom asked him to go for her and he said "No". Which flares my need to protect my Mom from any man in her life (Divorce hangover that I have manged to tamp down with this Dad) so I finally called him. I told him how much I love him and asked him to go to an independent place and he said "No". A
And that's when I got a bit bent out of shape because my Mom's AFIB is acting up as a result of the stress and THAT is not okay. I told him if he decides to not go to the Doc that it is going to and is stressing Mom and if you don't give a fuck about yourself, that is your choice. But to have your wishes put Mom's health at risk as a result? That I am not going to just stand by and watch. We would be TOTALLY fucked if Mom had a stroke and he would have to depend on me to help both of them.
Good God, please just take the damn picture already.
Because if you don't? .........
They have put it there for when my funeral will have to be announced - it will be a big party, and everyone needs to come. They put it many many years in advance, just so that nobody forgets that the party is yet to come. :lol:
Yeah, that is probably my fault. Sorry, I have been throwing him some serious curve balls I am having to field in life~
Naturally, they are not great places, anywhere in the world. You go into the hospital healthy, and come out sicker than you've ever went in. Hospitals really are disgusting places - here the rooms smell like piss, nobody cleans the patients, just let them rot there, like corpses. They stay for hours on end, the people who cannot go to the toilet themselves, with their poop in their pants. And of course they get infected, the skin gets irritated, etc.
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Right, the emotions are understandable, but then, we cannot really depend emotionally on other people. If he doesn't want to go, that's that. His decision ultimately has to be respected. Your mother is probably attached to him so obviously she is very stressed, and it's difficult to say. But think from his perspective - you are barely hanging onto life, and these people do not want to leave you alone, now you are responsible for them too, on top of everything you have to face. It is extremely rude, I don't know if you see it. If you tell another person "my stress is your fault, you are killing me", I think that is not right. On top of the pressure they already have to face, you add the pressure of responsibility. A person in that position cannot be held responsible.
Do not be so worried, I will probably be around here for a long time to come. Even my blood tests are all great.
Sorry, even after the second read through the tears are falling too heavy to read the damn screen
He obviously does not give a damn about those he is leaving behind. I will be seeing him Saturday and I am such a loose cannon right now, we could easily go at it. But if not now, when?
Thank you but I have a feeling it is going to get worse before things get better.
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
It is not his fault, in that position you reckon you would give a damn? First you must take care of yourself, before you can take care of others. He's not in a position where he can care for himself. I know that you are upset because this is hurting your mother. Have you tried working with your mother so that she feels less stressed about the situation? It sounds like it may be more productive to help your mother deal with the stress rather than try to convince him...
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
He is already having a hard time, why make it harder for him? It will not make things better for your mother. All this tension of trying to convince him is also stressful. What will you gain by releasing your tension and anger on him? Nothing will change. It's not like if you start shouting at him, crying, etc. you will convince him.
Only God knows and decides when it is the time.
Why? :gasp:
She is a retired Hospice nurse so I know she knows how this all ends but she cannot seem to logic it through like she could with patients, as this time it is her husband. I have offered help but she says she doesn't need it right now and I believe her because he and I are like oil and water, which is really odd because we have many of the same qualities/faults in ourselves.
Quoting Agustino
What else can I do?
Some things are not in our control... Other things take time to resolve. But you must also take care of yourself. Don't forget that - you must not ruin your own health in the process of trying to care for others, because then you won't even be able to care for them anymore. You need to be strong yourself to help others.
You know the situation the best, and you have the intelligence and strength in you to deal with it. Whenever you're asking anyone else "what shall I do?" why do you reckon they know better than you? None of us know, life is a process of grappling in the dark. We often have the illusion that others know, and that makes us feel sort of safe, but the truth is that we still have to struggle after the truth with our own intelligence. I know that you don't know what to do - but neither do we. We are in no better position that you yourself are. That is always the case when you are dealing with a unique and novel problem - no past experience can help you.
But being psychologically open to whatever happens is important. It gives you the strength to see possibilities and make the best decisions. Accepting the vulnerability and the inability to do anything, if that's the case. Because all this tension and anger is just clouding your judgement and not helping you in any way.
That’s the worry.
For my enemies yes. :lol:
That is why I have beaten you in both so far :kiss:
Of course. We'd have banned you long before that.
First off, you might have misunderstood me. The reason North Sioux City is one of my favorites is because it's across the Big Sioux River from Sioux City Iowa and across the Missouri from South Sioux City Nebraska. I've never been to any of them.
My one experience with SD was a fly over in the spring. I remember flying along at 30,000 feet looking down and seeing buildings. Then we flew another 5 before saw anything else human except roads. I also remember flying over a snow line - it was like someone had drawn a line down the middle of the landscape. Farms split in two. White on one side, grey on the other. Beautiful. I like the idea of the Dakotas. I grew up in Delaware, the second smallest state. It has about the same population as ND and SD, but the difference in size is immense.
Yes, I've been to Chicago. Once. I live near Boston, which is podunk compared to real cities. Chicago is a real city. Loved it. One of the things I loved is Meigs field. Flying over this dinky little air field right next to the city on a peninsula on Lake Michigan. Tickled me. I understand it's gone now. I love things that could never be built again but only exist because of history.
I don't have an affinity for social media. I have a hard time relating to people online. I only have a Facebook page under a fake name. I can't look at my children's Facebook pages. It feels like I'm stalking them. So... it's come as a surprise how much forum means to me. How much I've felt my heart going out to people and felt theirs coming back to me. I don't make friends easily, but I've found them here.
So, ok. You can come to my funeral, but you have to come prepared to say bad things about me.
I wasn't trying to imply Jews have a monolithic opinion about Israel, only that a Bar Mitzvah is probably not the right place to bring it up.
On the other hand, there is a rule of discussion/argument I try to follow - never get in an argument with someone who cares much more about the issue than you do. They are much more vulnerable than I am in that situation. That's one of the things I like about the forum. We've all agreed we don't have to be too careful with each other.
On the other hand, gracelessness is a fault worth pointing out.
"Justin went into court today, 5 years after his arrest, to plead with the court to lift his bond restrictions. He was asking for permission to go on the internet, to secure a better job. His attorneys reached across the aisle asking the DA's office, once again, to dismiss the case. This time their answer was, offer us a deal. His attorney asked for a Class C misdemeanor, the equivalent of a traffic ticket, and the DA's rejoinder was, a class A misdemeanor with time served and no probation. Justin has wanted this case to be over for years. In the interest of just being done, he signed guilty to a Class A misdemeanor. This means he is not a felon or a terrorist for the rest of his life. He pled guilty to False Report, a catch all misdemeanor. I'm elated that this is over. His whole family is. We're all a little shocked by how this long journey has so abruptly ended. I want to THANK every single one of you who signed this petition, who left comments, who bought t-shirts, ranted about this case on social media, showed up at court, and who stood behind and beside us all these years. We stood up for Freedom of Speech and though we didn't get the victory lap of winning a trial and setting a precedent; Justin won his life back. Thank you, thank you, thank you from all of us. Please don't ever forget, standing up for what's right can be difficult but never give up!!"
All that for making an obvious joke on FB and the DA still wanted the kid to jump through hoops just to cover his own backside. What a low-life.
He made a joke threat about going out and shooting up a kindergarten (terribly bad taste obviously) but marked it as a joke by saying j/k. The injustice system then caught him in its gears and chewed him up for five years.
Yes, if he had only raped someone like that Texas kid with connections did recently (can't remember his name but she was drunk and lying outside I think and he raped her and got a suspended sentence), he never would have ended up behind bars.
One of the very few noble men to have walked this planet. He will always be remembered.
:pray:
All very difficult stuff to deal with.
Regarding South Dakota: Sioux Falls is worth a brief visit. There actually is a water fall there; the Little Sioux river (usually kind of brown from sediment) proceeds down a stairway of pink quartzite rock. It's very pretty. Minerva's restaurant used to be good, though it's been maybe 15 years, at least, since I last ate there. Sioux Falls is a regional powerhouse, because there isn't anything else, much, out there.
Sioux Falls has a large metal (aluminum or stainless steel) replica of David. Not sure where it is now -- they've moved it around, trying to find a place where his dick won't offend too many of the locals. It was given to the city.
My niece lives there -- she teaches music in a religiously affiliated school there. One of her daughters was Ms. South Dakota -- how much more exalted than that can one get? Her husband is in the funeral business -- not as a mortician; I think the company does wholesale supply, or something.
How long should you stay in Sioux Falls? With a talented guide to take you around to the places worth seeing, and to give you a fair sample of the city, I should think 3 hours should be adequate. Then lunch. After that, you're pretty much done. Next best thing: Devils Tower west of the Black Hills. Definitely worth a trip, and a 90 minute visit. The Black Hills? Mount Rushmore was underwhelming. Just rent North by Northwest (Hitchcock) and you'll get a fly-on-the-nose view of the Presidents. It's a good movie.
For a full experience of the upper midwest, fly into Minneapolis and rent a car at the airport. Drive to the Black Hills on Highway 12. It's a straight shot, practically; 2 lanes most of the way, no towns of interest, (not many towns at all) flat as a pancake, and B O R I N G.
There's also a lot of urban infrastructure history there. All very interesting.
It makes me want to book a ride on the train right now and stay for a week.
So, yeah, your dad is being your dad. My guess is that no matter what's being thrown at him, he's staying true to his essence, refusing once again to do what's best for him or maybe even to think about those around him. If he were agreeable and compliant now, then you'd have already lost that angry, selfish, but for some reason infinitely lovable son of a bitch that continues to drive you crazy.
I'm not saying just step away and let him be because you gotta be you too, which is the loving, worrying daughter who relentlessly takes care of that deeply flawed but somehow perfect creature that put you in this crazy world.
You're a really good daughter Miss Tiff. I hope I should be so lucky.
He is 74 diabetic, untreated Bi-Polar, glacoma in both eyes, blind in one, has neuropathy so bad he walks like Frankenstein, he is gasping for air, enough that people in the hospital are offering him a wheel chair and to call an ambulence if they are in public. His brain on last scan showed the brain of an 80 yr old and that was at 70 yrs old. He has a second pacemaker, two stents, a third wire lead to his heart and is experiencing mental confusion. He will not go back to the hospital. Our only chance is for him to pass out and us to be able to call 911 but even if he is admitted, he will sign himself out AMA and go home. He is a stubborn, do as he is going to do, son of a bitch. He fires Doctors, he tosses out nurses and is a bear to deal with. He is off his psyche meds, he is in a deep depression and the only relief he gets for his breathing is laying down with a C Pac on. That's it. He eats his emotions, doesn't comply with anyone, for any reason and just wants to die. But it's not his time and it is most certainly not my time for him to die. The outcome of the CAT scan would only give us an idea if he had a stroke or another TIA or what his brain looks like now. Is it a 90 yr old brain? Is this how we should be adressing him? His pain level is the same as mine between a 1 and 10, with 10 being the worst? We both register at 50 before you even touch us. HUGE BABIES
Quoting Bitter Crank
Yes, up until this last stay in the hospital for 11 days because he stopped taking all his meds because "they were fucking with his head" including to his blood thinner and his asprin a day. Result three months later was a blood clot on his arm from his wrist to his shoulder and was swelling around his pacemaker. All they did was IV fluids, Anti biotics and glucose testing. But 15 sticks for blood was enough to not ever warrent going back. He says he won't do it.
You tell me, is he knowingly calling the game?
It seems to be a very long attempt at proving that shouting "basketball","basketball", "basketball" at a black hockey player is not as bad as some other types of racism. I don't see the point. They rightly kicked the maroons out and that was the end of it. Having some kind of conference to determine just how racist or otherwise they were hardly seems necessary. It's not like they got sent to jail or anything. Fairly boring stuff.
I found this building, and I don't understand the objective. Seems like a useless erection.
Ate my pet chicken once. Brought it home from the countryside and it stayed on our first floor balcony. When I came back a few days later from my first grade classes, my grandparents informed me that a cat or some thief had gotten it while everyone was away. That evening I ate chicken soup along with everyone else. Took me a few years to figure this one out. No pictures though.
This is the greatest video, visual image, ever created in the history of the world.
Is this one of those "Hanoverisms" we've been hearing so much about?
I don't go places because of the architecture and engineering, I just like see it, feel it, when I'm there. It's really good to live in New England. So many beautiful houses. Old industrial cities are beat up, but they have gorgeous buildings. Worcester, where I went to school (Worcester Polytechnic Institute) has wonderful sandstone and granite schools, government buildings, office buildings, from the 19th century. Providence is also very nice. Then there are plenty of structures older than that going back to the early 1600s. Youngsters compared to Europe, but still....
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
It's not an altogether unusual situation--not that you are going to find any comfort in that.
If his bi-polar disease isn't being treated, he could be very depressed, and quite irrational; or he could be in mania and quite irrational, or in-between and merely a stubborn pain in the neck. Diabetes, mental illness, glaucoma, blindness, neuropathy, cardio/pulmonary dysfunction... and he has what to live for?
It would appear that the only chance of making any progress on all these problems would be involuntary commitment, against which the barriers are fairly high. There are a few medications, Neurontin, for example, which might help his neuropathy. The damage from glaucoma isn't reversible. The damage from diabetes might not be reversible either. If he's had a stroke, what chance is there of his participating in physical therapy? Probably not much. The next thing might be a heart infection (leads running into the heart...) How bad is his bi-polar?
He probably feels end-stage, whether he is or not. The truth is, you can only help people so far -- even if they are anxious for your help, and even if they are not, it's worth trying -- which you all have done.
He has a lot of serious conditions all at once; that's hard for the patient, hard for the family, and that's when people are cooperative.
Hope for the best. Don't think about the rest of it too long.
There is no such thing as a useless erection.
It's Quillette, which is mildly crap at its best, and intensely defective at its worst.
I mean, just read the comments. It's infuriating.
Some people just cannot leave the universe to run its natural course. How can someone be so cruel as to tell Hanover that he is amusing? Oh the end is nigh, woe be unto us.
No, because you are cruel to cats. If you are going to eat one you should at least look at Alf's 1,000 ways to cook your cat book. Some of those recipes look tasty.
If it is an erection, then it has to be useful. To someone at least.
As my father used to say "Jack's son has the gout" which translates to "Each to his own taste."
I fear that some warriors are never called to battle despite their readiness and training.
I think he was telling you that Jack's son had the gout, but in your inebriated state you took that to mean each had his own taste. Meanwhile Jack's son continued to suffer from the gout while you were oblivious.
Alas, I can't ask him for clarification.
Sweet.
Good Friday to all the ladies in the house! Except Hanover, who is just confused.
Oh, okay, thanks for informing me. I will have to hurry and eat them before the dinner then :'O
*hamster hops on plane*
My cupcakes!! :blush:
Look what I made, for Baden and Baden alone, a luscious piece of punkin pie.
I am trying to embrace the idea of not pushing him for further treatment if it means he is going to see me as a stress, rather than a loving family member as we continue on. But it's not me, I am not a wimp and neither is he, I am a Warrior and I have seen him be the same but it has been a few years now. Thank you Hanover~
I Thank you for your guidence BC, I will try to not think about the rest.
Yours? Hmmm.... I am pretty sure she said Ladies. Is there something you are wanting to share with us?
You mean Pumpkin pie :wink:
Do not be worried, @TimeLine is already aware of it. Here's what she said to me:
Quoting TimeLine
Dude....your telling me you are a lesbian because someone else told you you are? :chin:
I think you're in it for the cake
Hippy Pissover!
?? ??? ???
Which is actually "Revossap Yppah."
He gets crucified today, wakes up again on Sunday. Merry Passover.
Yeah, well, I didn't read that part of the bible, so what do I know.
In Ireland, we don't do pie. Every dessert must be translated into the language of cake, jelly or ice-cream. .
Actually we eat sheep and fuck potatoes. Ignoramus.
Christians just eat Jesus himself. I would think human steaks would count as tref. Any opinion on that, Rabbi?
It is my understanding some cannibals called human flesh "long pig."
Happy Passover! :party:
You know if @Benkei had not shattered my dreams of becoming a Jew, I would have known it was Passover. :gasp:
I blame @Maw for not clueing me in on the holiday seeing as he thinks I am into the Jews for the culture not the religion. :roll:
The Theology Mixer
I like it! :up:
What I would suggest for simplicity sake is to purchase those items at your grocer bearing the seal of the Orthodox Union indicating its koshruth standard and saving you the burden of learning Halakha from a non-practicing Jew with a penchant for sexual deviance.
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
:chin:
So, I'm unkosher, but all ladies need not fret, as this prohibition does not apply to the many fine shiksa in my life.
A formerly Christian friend of mine whose husband is Jewish and who has raised her daughters in the temple wanted to convert. She started the process but balked at the ritual cleansing that is required of women. So she continues to be an active member of the community, volunteering in the temple and participating in the services, but won't take the final step.
Even as far back as Leviticus lawyers had given weasels a bad name.
The implication, which she isn't able to abide, is that women are unclean.
Right? The influences we have on others lives.
Say what???? :brow:
Hmmm.... I am not so sure about this conversion thing. I was excommunicated from the first place that threw water on my forehead and now I am expected to go totally under and not be held down by the smartest Jew in the room? :fear:
Are you suggesting that my brothers are secretly Jewish? Because they spent a LOT of time dunking me in the pool.
Congratulations. The first post on page 1000 of the Shoutbox.
We have reached the end of my knowledge about conversion in Judaism and I'm just transmitting what my friend told me. My point wasn't intended as a criticism of Jewish doctrine or practice, only that it can be hard to convert. It's a serious thing. You may have to accept new values which are different from those you have grown up with.
I might owe you an apology for thinking you were wrong this whole time about me not being able to become Jewish. I am hearing some things that I don't really care for and I mean Atheists can be funny too, right? I mean look at Mayor, he is a blast!
Well I think I better stay believing in Mother Nature because I can look outside at many different times of day, in all the seasons and see, listen, smell, feel and touch all the beauty she brings into my life. Like Carlin said: "I worship the sun. Why? Because I can point to it. It goes away but always comes back and it warms me when it does."
1000 pages with 20k replies! :party: :100: x10 :party:
Oh, you can be critical. I don't care.
There are cleanliness issues with women that many would find offensive. Men and women cannot sleep in the same bed during the menstrual cycle and the woman does go to the mikvah to cleanse herself spiritually after her period ends. The cleansing is spiritual, not actual, as the mikvah would look like a murder scene after a few rounds of actual cleansing.
I don't know if it's in my Jewish genes, but I in particular am too fastidious to engage during that period . The aroma can be overpowering and the feeling of bloody lubricant is distressing. Once I had to stop in midstream (literally), and that really upset my fertile lass, but I just couldn't maintain despite my best effort.
It's so liberating how I feel like I can share everything with you guys. You're all the very best!
Just worthless.
Oh right, her refusal makes more sense now. Who needs religion, anyways? Not me.
Yeah, a blast of warm diarrhoea into this toilet of a forum.
Happy 20,002nd comment, and God bless America. :party:
No. She is a woman of substance and principal whom I respect greatly. One of the few genuinely good people I know.
Yes, God bless America.
We mean it, man.
:grin: :up:
Kentucky Fried Substance?
Mumblety-peg
So, like, if God where to hypothetically be blessing a particular nation, what’d he/she/it be intending in relation to all those other ones?
This one for me is right up there with what size tool did the most important religious and/or scientific individuals in history really have? Moses, Jesus Christ, the Buddha, I’ll add Einstein for the scientific side. Cuz, we all know how much tool sizes mean to in respect to being an important, integral, and valued human.
… but, I think I just got myself in trouble. Clamps are tools too, btw. And no, I’m not answering any questions!
(Psst! @Baden, I don't think he gets it).
Never mind the bollocks.
The fascist regime
They made you a m0r0n
Potential H-bomb
God save the queen
She ain't no human being
There is no future
In England's dreaming
Don't be told what you want
Don't be told what you need
There's no future, no future,
No future for you
God save the queen
We mean it man
We love our queen
God saves
God save the queen
'Cause tourists are money
And our figurehead
Is not what she seems
Oh God save history
God save your mad parade
Oh Lord God have mercy
All crimes are paid
When there's no future
How can there be sin
We're the flowers in the dustbin
We're the poison in your human machine
We're the future, your future
God save the queen
We mean it man
We love our queen
God saves
God save the queen
We mean it man
And there is no future
In England's dreaming
No future, no future,
No future for you
No future, no future,
No future for me
No future, no future,
No future for you
No future, no future
For you
My bad, Sapientia.
Reform Judaism is about 110 years older than Reconstructing Judaism, both are still hot off the press, in terms of the history of Judaism.
It's probably nothing more than symbolic, anyway -- and as Flannery O'Connor said about that sort of thing (talking about sacraments as symbols), "If it's just symbolic, then to hell with it." Last night at the Maundy Thursday service (Maundy from mandamus) many churches washed feet -- usually the pastor washing the feet of the parishioners. How well washed were they? Water was poured on the feet over a basin and then patted with a towel. It wouldn't disturb one's Desenex powder. None the less, the feet were washed. NEXT! The command (mandamus) wasn't to wash feet; it is to love one another as Jesus loved his apostles, demonstrated by his probably thorough washing of their feet.
So anyway, getting back to Judaism, you probably aren't going to find reformed or reconstructing Jews tripping over each other out there in the outback where you live.
So this means no pic for my cellar?
I am sorry that you feel as though The Philosophy Forum is a "toliet of a forum" but you are entitled to your feelings. :ok:
But if you feel that way about TPF, why are you here?
Yes, maybe a thread would be better. Having comments on this mixed in with the usual Shoutbox fare seems wrong to me. Up to you, of course.
Done.
All God's children gotta go toilet.
And this is the yard where the hunt will take place:
Have you heard of Toilet Duck? Well, I'm like that, but the Owl version.
Remember to flush when you’re done please.
https://goo.gl/images/t17f6F
Don't understand.
https://goo.gl/images/Up0U7D
[I]What[/I] don't you understand? Why it's a facepalm...?
Yes, it seems like a reasonable issue to bring up. Also, it's in a different thread.
Oh really? I hadn't noticed that. Thanks. I'll just go and post that reply over there so it can be deleted.
Quoting T Clark
It's not about the issue, it's about the argument put forward. It's a terrible argument. I could break it down and address it in the discussion itself if you don't see it.
Trafalgar Square
I would have thought they are a bit short to be considered "phallic," but that's just me. They are to keep people from falling into the old shed foundation.
I am so proud.
Wait a minute...
"Me and Vlad, drinking smoothies on the veranda. DELICIOUS!".
Fast forward, and...
"I did NOT have sexual relations with that man".
I'm guessing it's to educate.
So what is education then?
Why did you not just go ahead and break it down and be done with it, instead of bringing it over here?
Odd question. Or is it some sort of test? Why wouldn't I know the meaning of that word? Do you have some reason to doubt my understanding of English?
Because I do what I want.
There is nothing odd about the question. As you yourself have so often pointed out, words have several meanings. I would like to know what you, personally, understand education to be.
I'll be the judge of that.
Quoting Sir2u
Why make it personal? What's wrong with an impersonal answer derived from the standard meaning that you can find in a dictionary? Seems adequate enough to me.
What if I were to say something like, "Personally, education, to me, is a combination of positive and negative energy, refocused to project a harmonious understanding, with a view to attaining enlightenment"?
I don't think that it is, or ought to be, a matter of personal understanding. It is what it is, and that's that.
And what special qualifications do you have to be the judge? I think that my opinion is just as good as yours.
Quoting Sapientia
I thought that I had already explained that, let me check, yes I did.
Quoting Sapientia
OK. If that is what makes you happy.
I am the embodiment of wisdom.
Quoting Sir2u
Then you think wrong.
Quoting Sir2u
Not really. You just noted that words have several meanings, and you told me that you'd like to know what I, personally, understand education to be.
If I'm critical of your approach to an issue, then I likely will not just passively submit to it. I'll resist it and attempt to redirect you or try to get you to think about it differently.
Now, if you're competent enough, based on the bones I've already thrown you, you'll be able to work out at least a rough idea of what I understand education to be, without me having to spell it out to you. Do you think you're up to the task? Or would you prefer to carry on the charade?
Quoting Sir2u
Well, I wouldn't go that far, but I'm satisfied enough with how I've dealt with this. And you haven't provided me with any good reason to go about it differently. So...
Avoidance is a defense mechanism, but I suppose that you being the embodiment of knowledge would already know that.
If I'm avoiding giving you an easy time, consider that it might be for your own benefit - an attempt to educate you, perhaps.
I doubt anyone is up to the task of figuring out what goes on in your mind.
Quoting Sapientia
How can asking a simple question be a charade? Only in your mind.
But if you are not up to the task of saying clearly and concisely what you think education is then I guess I will have to let you think whatever you want.
Oh, by the way, you missed a mistake. Are you up to the task of finding it?
It's quite simple, really. The charade is that you were ever truly ignorant, to any significant degree, of my meaning to begin with; and that, even after - and in spite of - what I've indicated to you, you remain largely ignorant; and that it's therefore necessary for me to spell it out for you.
My aim here is to shatter that illusion. I put it to you that you know what I mean, because you understand English, and because you understand that I understand English, and because, if there was ever any doubt, what I've indicated to you about my stance should have been sufficient to dispel such doubts.
Quoting Sir2u
Can you tell me why I should have to? What next? Math by finger-counting?
But I guess that would be to much to ask for.
Did you find the mistake yet oh wonderful embodiment of wisdom?
Too personal. Simmer down.
The purpose of education is to know when you are reading Fake April Fools News... :rofl:
Okay, then why don't you start by telling me how your understanding differs from the norm, instead of dragging this out?
Rhamphorhynchoidea.
@T Clark, your turn.
Gasp! Fake news!
Quoting Sapientia
I [i]knew[/I] it was too good to be true.
I know. It's totally obvious. Just as the purpose of Sapientia is to make us wise. Clearly, no debate necessary.
Finally. Someone who gets it. :grin:
*Bows gracefully* I'm renowned for my truthiness :halo:
I once adopted a little boy called Baden, but social services took him away from me because I used to push him down the stairs for fun.
I still love you Daddy. :death:
If you had read the thread it might be more than obvious why the topic was being descussed.
Quoting jastopher
Are you part of the 75%?
Your habit of making supercilious comments about threads without appearing to have anything to say about them is annoying to say the least.
Hey, you're the one who jumped on my partly tongue-in-cheek comment that I purposefully posted here in the Shoutbox.
I didn't ask you why the topic was being discussed. You indicated a preference to discuss the differences in our respective understandings. My response to that is: go on then. I'm not stopping you.
No, I asked you to explain what you think education is. As you seem to have the best answers for everything I thought I might take advantage of your wisdom and find out the obvious truth of the matter.
I think it is clear that you posted your tongue in cheek comment here is because you have nothing of value to add in the thread about education.
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my question. Or not.
No argument with your sentiment, but it is a testament to the change in tone on the forum in the last months that this exchange is considered "too personal."
It is worth noting that the warning was issued by one of the new moderators. I'd fail to keep a straight face if I saw some of the other mods say what drake did.
Change of tone might be my fault. I am a new mod after all. And as a post-modern neomarxist I'm somewhere between the devouring mother and Stalin in terms of psychology.
If you think there's been a change and it's a bad thing why not start a thread in feedback?
Hm. We'll see. I haven't seen 'a testament' used as anything but derisively in a long time.
fdrake hasn't been sufficiently corrupted by the party leadership. Re-education classes have been scheduled.
Giving sympathy before each disturbance allows the party to delimit the avenues of dissent. I am the echo that steals each voice.
Spoken like a true veteran moderator.
And I responded by indicating to you what my stance is, enabling you to answer that question yourself. Since you refuse to do so, my conclusion is that you're not really interested in the answer, but only interested in attempting to get me to answer it for you.
Thank you. If you have any complaints please start a thread in feedback or if you feel unable to discuss any specific issue with the whole staff personally, or have an issue with a staff member you would like the staff to address, don't feel afraid to message one of us and we'll try to address the concerns.
David Rothkopf
Foreign Policy
Feb 2017
We need someone like Trump to Make Australia Great Again. Wouldn't even have to change the acronyms.
The implication seems to be that this is a bad thing. But can you imagine what would happen to the economy if people were smarter and more informed? If they thought critically about advertising? If they refused to buy from environmentally damaging businesses? If they avoided expensive branded goods in favor of generic ones? If they understood the fine print of insurance policies?
Total crash. And then we all lose. Sorry, but prosperity is built on leaders like Trump who encourage people to feel confident rather than ashamed about not knowing stuff. The alternative is economic ruin and a population of eggheads wondering how to pay their mortgages.
God bless Australia.
Doubtful. This part in particular seems of greater relevance to Trump supporters:
Example, climate change denial.
I think you will find that prosperity, security, safety, health, education, clean environment, etc. ALL depend on people having "faith" and confidence in the utility of themselves, their families, their neighborhood, city, state, and... whatever geo-political unit they think important.
Once the masses lose this "faith and confidence" things unravel, regardless of who is in charge. Knitting together and unravelling is a continuous, on-going process. They who lose faith today, regain it later, somewhere else, or under changed circumstances.
That's certainly an important piece of the puzzle. I'm just becoming more convinced that more leaders like Trump, despite some negatives, would be an overall good thing economically, and that's, in the end, the primary concern we should all have if we're to be honest with ourselves.
Please clap.
Blah blah blah...Please clap. What a loser. Another reason to be thankful for Trump, we must admit.
Yeah, "creating a more peaceful world", pffft! What we need is war. Trade war, cold war, nuclear war... war! Now that he's hired John Bolton, hopefully that'll speed up the process.
God bless America. And war!
Let's not exaggerate though. Controlled levels of increased conflict such as Trump is fomenting are also good for the economy, and hence for all of us. I guess we probably don't want nuclear war, the cleanup would be really expensive, but war in general tends to be stimulatory.
Trying to have a serious conversation with you is like pulling teeth. :sad:
Put it this way. When was the last time you bought something you didn't need?
Look at this:
I bought it the other day. It's a piece of crap, hardly works and I'm probably never going to use it. But I saw it on TV and I bought it because I have plenty of spare cash to throw around and well, who knows what it might come in useful for. On top of that, actions like these help the economy and thus help us all. If everyone thought doing something like that was a dumb idea we'd all be screwed>>Economic depression>>No jobs. Fostering public intelligence sounds like a good idea on paper but a sense of intellectual superiority won't buy you lunch, will it?
Don't worry, I have bought a lot of this stuff over the past year, now I no longer have to go to the gym :lol:
Except that, unfortunately, I've lacked the time for training in 2018. I used to go 3-5 days gym + 2 days running a week in 2017.
That's the spirit! :up:
:rage:
Is it not the process by which one carries on a conversation? One party asks a question, the other answers. There would be very few conversations in the world if everyone just answered "figure it out yourself" or "you already know the answer, so why do you want mine?"
But whatever, if you do not want to share your knowledge that is alright. The world will carry on without it.
I think it's a really good thing. Sorry I wasn't clear. I was talking to some other people and they wondered if it has gotten or will get more boring. I don't think so. And if it does, that just means philosophy and reason are not as interesting as people think they are.
Funny. I had forgotten @fdrake is a moderator now. It does mean something different coming from him rather than a regular member.
You're not the only one who wasn't clear whether I was fer or agin the "new tone." Fer it. I don't think it has anything to do with you individually. There's been a change that's made us more philosophical.
I'm really sorry. I wasn't trying to start a rumble. I only wanted to point out that the conversation fdrake was commenting on was much more civil and measured than the average discussion used to be. Two points I guess 1) Things have really improved. 2) A little crankiness is not necessarily a bad thing.
Don't worry.
When I was 6 I used to help the dinner ladies at school tidy up the canteen after lunch. Because I did this every day eventually they gave me a small notepad and a smaller pencil as a gift. This made me feel very proud of myself. However, I came to the realization that since the notepad was a gift and highly unusual for such a thing to just pop into someone's possession during the lunch break, the notepad conferred upon me special status. I was given a privilege by an authority and decided to use this privilege to repeatedly write 'Do not do that.' in the notepad, walk up to other children in the playground and tell them to stop what they were doing because the notepad instructed them to do it.
Apparently history repeats itself.
Ah, yes. That explains so much. :meh:
The reply you quoted while apologising was addressed to Butex anyway. Perhaps I'm missing something here.
If you haven't understood it yet, let me say for myself, that the quality of the forum has gone up noticably in the last few months, a lot having to do with your approach to moderating and the move of @unenlightened to the regular members, for he is a powerful force to have a member voice without the baggage of being a moderator/administrator.
The balance promotes the setting and safety for which discussions are fostered rather than persons being baited into a war of words that never really answer the discussion. It's a dance but it can get tiring at times and it's nice to have balance restored to the forum.
I could list the reasons why I believe @fdrake is an excellent addition to the moderation board but I would leave stuff out and I would feel obligated to say all the reasons I appreciate each of the other moderators as well as the admistration. So suffice it to say that I am pleasntly surprised.
"Rooms to let fifty cents
No phone no pool no pets
I ain't got no cigarettes
Ah but, two hours of pushing broom
Buys a eight by twelve four bit room
I'm a man of means by no means"
Well, maybe. There are other things, though.
No, I don't think you're missing anything. I hope I clarified my original post. I was just commenting on the changes in the forum, which I think are good.
Oh, all that was just April Fool's day nonsense and the opposite of what I believe. God help anyone who found it convincing.
As good a definition of philosophy as I can come up with.
King of the Road. Roger Miller
Yes. Exactly. It has meant a lot to me.
Indeed it is not. Season with bitter herbs.
https://youtu.be/K2p84Xdx8ck
May your hands always be busy
May your feet always be swift
May you have a strong foundation
When the winds of changes shift
May your heart always be joyful
And may your song always be sung
May you stay forever young
[hide]Just kidding :lol: [/hide]
Bro did you partake of a little Easter..."sauce" this year???
:lol: That depends what you mean, but as I said, real Easter isn't now! :P April 8th!
Ho ho ho!!!
Have you read any of the Diogenes anecdotes?
I'll read the article.
I'll masturbate in the marketplace.
Can you name this tune without the help of the Internet:
"Crawl into my ambulance, your pulse is getting weak
reveal yourself all too me now, while you've got the strength to speak"
Realists 1 - Idealists 0.
Less so since you turned up. You're quite a spicy hedgehog. Not as bland as some of the other inhabitants.
So true. Other than quills in the nads, I do enjoy me a romp with a hedgehog.
Yeah, I remember. It's from the Monkee's theme song.
Actually, I'm getting a little tickle, but not much. I'll soak in it and see if something pops up unless someone else can figure it out or you get tired of waiting.
It's better than this:
"Jab me with your silken quill
deep into my scrotal fill
Eat my vampire's shining light
rape the morning's gusendheit."
My mom used to sing me to sleep with this song after we played slingshots and razors.
Amazingly enough, that also is from the Monkee's theme song.
We have a real shortage of younger kids, so if you've got some to spare, we'll make arrangements for next year.
Happy to be of service.
My son cares about beer. He stores them on shelves in our basement. He also manages a farm. In summer, there is no room for my cottage cheese because of his beer and vegetables in the refrigerator.
You've only been here for a couple of months. If you don't find value in it, go away.
The forum has changed my life for the better and it means a lot to me. I don't expect that to be true of everyone, but no one forces anyone to be here. So, go fry ice.
Near Boston, MA.
It’s the little things, eh Carl? Bless your simple heart.
You are welcome here. We can always use some.... whatever it is you provide. I'm not joking, I just don't know the right word. But if you don't get what you want here, go somewhere else.
We'll try to get Robbie Williams in. Or maybe Penn and Teller.
I'll talk to jrob about it. :up:
Absolutely great.
Sarcasm is the word you’re looking for, Carl.
:up:
Super.
I do miss the wit and knowledge that Christopher imparted on any discussion he was having. Was he vaping in that video? It seems a bit early for that technology.
No. There's more to it than that.
Yet to learn that the satisfaction gained from slapping someone on the face isn't worth the pain of the retaliatory slap. Especially when they've got bigger hands than you. :wink:
So annoying, irritating, and/or frustrating.
Just FYI.
Can you work it out? :nerd:
[Hide]Answer: Thank you, Michael.[/hide]
Enlightening. :joke:
You mean Teens' HIV paranoia, of course.
My thought is that HIV is the most serious of the maladies, but it's generally treatable these days, and the most likely mode of transmission largely excludes my concerns, although I always try to make sure the guy behind me isn't following too close when I'm in line at the bank and things like that and I always squirt hand sanitizer down my pants. Pregnancy is a concern and it's very expensive to treat and the treatment lasts 18 years or more to fully free yourself from it. But if you cross your fingers just right it won't happen. Gonorrhea and syphilis are old school diseases I don't really hear about people getting that much anymore and my understanding is that if you soak yourself in kerosene you'll cure it, but maybe I'm wrong there too. Then there's herpes, which is a stigma disease that really amounts to an occasional skin breakout on your junk (or girl junk as it were). I wouldn't want that because I don't like stigmas but I think you can take meds to keep the seepage under control.
So, here's the question: Imagine the single most attractive person to you wants to have sex with you (a swimsuit model, a fireman, a migrant avocado picker, a midget who can use his penis as a kickstand, or whatever), but you learn he or she's suffering a bright red angry case of one of the above, which do you choose and why, and does it matter if oral is under consideration?
Can't you choose not to sleep with them?
The correct answer is "pregnancy". It ain't contagious and it ain't mine.
I never thought of that. Can that happen?
Anyway, wine party at Hanover's house for anyone interested. Sometimes I don't wear clothes, so let me know when you're coming over so that I can put my socks on.
If you can get me the time off work, pay for my flights, provide me with accommodation for my stay, then...
[Hide]...no. Just send me the wine.[/hide]
Yeah, look Easter in Australia is just public holiday long weekend filled with dinners and doing fun things and eating a lot of chocolate.
Dipshit. :heart:
Oh, I've been exchanging your secrets for crack, and Timeline is in possession of a lot of crack. You should be more careful about what you let slip in our pillow talk.
Makes sense.
I know, right!
Careful now, you know what happened last time you over-confidently thought I was too short to kick high enough.
Challenge me! I'm not your organ grinder monkey for entertainment where you can just say floppy disk and expect for me to say something about hard drives or thumb drives being inserted into USB ports. And don't expect me to jump on the word "box" or to even refer back to my own comment regarding "organ" grinder.
My humor is complicated, clever, refined, and unexpected. I would never say my floppy drive is at my house but my hard drive is at your house in your box. Damn you! I still said it!
What 8 Track tape do you still have? :smirk:
If you don't have one left, which was your favorite?
I win, floppy. I win.
It was a really good story with fully developed characters, a complicated love triangle, an antagonist that kept intervening in the relationship that represented capitalism and corporatism (the story line was very involved), and there was a Christ-like character that assisted in the freeing of the hand (the mouse insertion, as you've likely deciphered, represented original sin and the fall of man).
A good 20 pages was devoted to a prior failed relationship of mine where I just sort of pathetically diverted into unrelated self-pity and used the word "bitch" no less than 220 times. It wasn't a good look for me, but don't judge my art!
Hanover -1, Timeline -0.
I have none left. I did have an 8 track player from Sears that broke a long time ago. I had some of those K-Tel greatest hits albums you'd order off TV. It seems like I had one with "Billy Don't be Hero" and "The Night Chicago Died." I remember a lot of those songs from that album.
I'd give my dad the money and he'd write a check and mail it in for me and then I'd wait and wait and wait until I got my package. Good old days.
Hmm something like Paper and Lace I think was the name of that band. Good tunes by the way, I know the words to each one by heart. My Mom had an 8 Track with the song "Cherry Shoe" that I used to sing with a mic, on stage (the stone seat in front of the fireplace) into a Panasonic smoked plastic stereo we had. One day my smart ass brother asked me if I was singing "Cherry Shoe"? I said YES! He said "It's Cherish You, you idiot". Sibling love I assure you.
I signed up for the 10 free cassette tapes for a dollar and got 2 FREE! OOoo what a scam to start destroying your credit score early, or in your case, sending your Dad to collections.
The killer part of that K-Tel deal was how proud I was the summer I went up to the lake with my new Ghetto Blaster (took 800 D Batteries) and my suitcase of tunes we could play all summer long. First day we girls get to go out on the boat, on our own and I was sitting in the bow changing tapes, so we had the right song playing as we cruised passed the boys of summer place. Got the tape loaded and set to go and BAM we hit a wave the wrong way and OFF went my case of 11 tapes, into the water and by the time we circled back they were gone. The boys of summer had seen it all and were smirking on the pier.
Yep, me and the girls with ONE tape all summer long. Over and Over and Over and......