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Jamal October 22, 2015 at 09:29 69300 views 3457 comments
Getting back into Proust's In Search of Lost Time. I find it relaxing, like watching snooker at the Crucible on TV on a Saturday afternoon. But it's better than snooker:

[quote=Proust]But then, even in the most insignificant details of our daily life, none of us can be said to constitute a material whole, which is identical for everyone, and need only be turned up like a page in an account-book or the record of a will; our social personality is created by the thoughts of other people. Even the simple act which we describe as "seeing some one we know" is, to some extent, an intellectual process. We pack the physical outline of the creature we see with all the ideas we have already formed about him, and in the complete picture of him which we compose in our minds those ideas have certainly the principal place. In the end they come to fill out so completely the curve of his cheeks, to follow so exactly the line of his nose, they blend so harmoniously in the sound of his voice that these seem to be no more than a transparent envelope, so that each time we see the face or hear the voice it is our own ideas of him which we recognise and to which we listen.[/quote]

Comments (3457)

Streetlight December 29, 2020 at 02:55 #483390
Quoting Maw
bought Anti-Oedipus while in college 11 years ago and haven't managed to get past a handful of pages. Need to get through it at some point... Your BLM reading list is quite inspiring as is your History of Capitalism, and to that end I would recommend How Europe Underdeveloped Africa by Walter Rodney and Open Veins of Latin America by Eduardo Galeano


Having spent so long on Anti-Oedipus i can honestly say that unless you're interested in the minutiae of psychoanalysis, it's honestly not worth it. The third chapter, which offers a kind of idiosyncratic typology of human social development, is the best thing there, but everything else is hyper narrowly focused on some very obscure debates within psychoanalytic theory. You're far better off reading Fanon. It really dismays me that it's Deleuze's most well known work.

And yeah, both Rodney and Galeano are definitely on my list to to-reads - if I keep up the historical bent of reading that I'm planning for next year, they'll be there for sure. Ironically, despite my dislike of AO, it's that third chapter that kinda reawakened by interest in history.
_db December 29, 2020 at 02:55 #483391
Technopoly, Neil Postman
_db January 03, 2021 at 01:20 #484385
Reply to StreetlightX Found a copy of Strayer's On the Medieval Origins of the Modern State, thanks for the rec.

Also picked up Man and Technics by Oswald Spengler and A Short History of Progress by Ronald Wright.
Streetlight January 03, 2021 at 01:56 #484396
Quoting darthbarracuda
Found a copy of Strayer's On the Medieval Origins of the Modern State,


It's an OK read. It surprisingly comes off as a history of... bureaucracy. Which I suppose is not all that different from the state.
Pantagruel January 03, 2021 at 17:09 #484574
The Savage Mind, by Levi-Strauss
Streetlight January 06, 2021 at 14:09 #485343
Ellen Meiksins Wood - Citizens to Lords: A Social History of Western Political Thought from Antiquity to the Middle Ages
Albert O. Hirschman - The Rhetoric of Reaction: Perversity, Futility, Jeopardy
Gilles Deleuze - Foucault
180 Proof January 11, 2021 at 04:39 #487056
january 2021 readings

Searching For Whitopia, Rich Benjamin
The Structure of World History: From Modes of Production to Modes of Exchange, K?jin Karatani
The Enlightenment: The Pursuit of Happiness, Ritchie Robertson
Ages of Discord: A Structural-Demographic Analysis of American History, Peter Turchin
Big White [url=https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/491196]Ghetto, Kevin D. Williamson


re-reading

Memoirs, General William Techumseh Sherman
Maw January 11, 2021 at 05:17 #487066
Quoting 180 Proof
The Structure of World History: From Modes of Production to Modes of Exchange, K?jin Karatani


Sounds interesting!
Pantagruel January 11, 2021 at 12:04 #487180
Quoting Maw
The Structure of World History: From Modes of Production to Modes of Exchange, K?jin Karatani
— 180 Proof

Sounds interesting!


It does.
Thinking January 12, 2021 at 07:34 #487607
The Ringing Cedars of Russia by Vladimir Megre

Maw January 13, 2021 at 00:09 #487997
Quoting StreetlightX
Ellen Meiksins Wood - Citizens to Lords: A Social History of Western Political Thought from Antiquity to the Middle Ages


Starting this too
Streetlight January 13, 2021 at 01:49 #488018
Reply to Maw Cool! It's more 'pop' than alot of her other work, and pretty breezy to get through.
Benkei January 14, 2021 at 07:44 #488568
Reply to StreetlightX Reply to Maw this is why I join a philosophy forum, you can read all the books and I'll see the acquired wisdom seep through into your posts. Meanwhile I started book 3 of the Stormlight Archive, Oathbringer.
Pantagruel January 15, 2021 at 12:36 #489054
Essays on the Sociology of Knowledge by Karl Mannheim
Looking forward to these. Structures of Thinking was a tour de force
Pantagruel January 17, 2021 at 13:03 #489745
One-Dimensional Man: Studies in the Ideology of Advanced Industrial Society
by Herbert Marcuse
Streetlight January 21, 2021 at 01:28 #491040
Ellen Meiksins Wood -Liberty and Property: A Social History of Western Political Thought from Renaissance to Enlightenment (2nd part of the 2 volume history). First volume was interesting, a very unique approach to reading the history of philosophy, as theoretical responses to tensions between the state, property holders, and producers. Very different to the usual 'immanent' account of ideas responding to other ideas in historical vacuum.
Ciceronianus January 22, 2021 at 20:53 #491677
I'm currently reading this, but also these:

Imperial Ideology and Provincial Loyalty in the Roman Empire, Clifford Ando;
A Cultural History of Chess-Players: Minds, Machines and Monsters, John Sharples;
Ars Vitae: The Fate of Inwardness and the Return of the Ancient Arts of Living, Elisabeth Lasch-Quinn;
John Dewey's Ecology of Experience, Kai Alhanen;
The Knowledge Machine: How Irrationality Created Modern Science, Michael Strevens;
Nature's Mutiny: How the Little Ice Age of the Long Seventeenth Century Transformed the West and Shaped the Present, Philipp Blom (Long title award)
Pantagruel January 28, 2021 at 19:51 #493966
The Human Place in the Cosmos
by Max Scheler
Maw January 29, 2021 at 17:41 #494341
Liberty and Property: A Social History of Western Political Thought from Renaissance to Enlightenment by Ellen Meiksins Wood
Pantagruel February 02, 2021 at 11:31 #495951
First Principles by Herbert Spencer
Wingfield's Hope by Dan Needles
Streetlight February 04, 2021 at 01:55 #496588
Reply to Maw How are you finding this and its prequal?

--

Giovanni Arrighi - The Long Twentieth Century: Money, Power, and the Origins of our Times
Maw February 04, 2021 at 05:40 #496675
Quoting StreetlightX
How are you finding this and its prequal?


Works of frustrating lucidity; books empowered with a forceful and cogent conceptual apparatus (i.e. historical materialism), packed with material that I find it simultaneously brilliant, yet aggravating. Aggregating in that there is clearly much more that can be told beyond the selected political and social philosophers. To your point "pop". Wish there was more meat to it. I love Jonathon Israel's work, and I agree with the thrust of it, but it's somewhat conceptually limited by prioritizing "ideas responding to ideas" while subordinating material and social explanans.
_db February 09, 2021 at 00:51 #498087
I got into dystopian literature at the end of 2020, which happened to include novels that I missed back in high school.

Read:
  • The Road, Cormac McCarthy
  • Lord of the Flies, William Golding
  • Animal Farm, George Orwell
  • Brave New World, Adlous Huxley
  • 1984, George Orwell
  • The Giver, Lois Lowry
  • We, Yevgeny Zamyatin


Reading:

  • Fahrenheit 451, Ray Bradbury


To-read:

  • The Iron Heel, Jack London
  • A Clockwork Orange, Anthony Burgess
  • The Handmaid's Tale, Margaret Atwood


Suggestions for more dystopian reading is welcomed!
_db February 09, 2021 at 02:13 #498102
What happened to @180 Proof's reply to me?
180 Proof February 09, 2021 at 03:08 #498110
Quoting darthbarracuda
Suggestions for more dystopian reading is welcomed!

Here's eleven (kinda all over the place):

The Windup Girl, Paolo Bacigalupi
The Drowned World, J.G. Ballard
Parable of the Sower, Octavia Butler
Nevet Let Me Go, Kazuo Ishiguro
The Known World, Edward P. Jones
The Trial, Franz Kafka
It Can't Happen Here, Sinclair Lewis
Station Eleven, Emily St. John Mandel
[s]A Canticle For Leibowitz, Walter M. Miller, Jr[/s]
The Plot Against America, Philip Roth
The Chrysalids, John Wyndham

edit:

The Peace War, Vernor Vinge
_db February 09, 2021 at 03:39 #498117
Reply to 180 Proof :up: Thanks!
Heracloitus February 09, 2021 at 06:11 #498144
Reply to darthbarracuda The last man by Mary Shelley
Jack Cummins February 09, 2021 at 12:20 #498177
Reply to emancipate
Strangely enough, I am reading the novel, by Mary Shelley, 'The Last Man,' too and I think it a very good book.
Heracloitus February 09, 2021 at 13:30 #498184
Reply to Jack Cummins yes I come back to this from time to time. In my (subjective) opinion it is one of the greatest works of fiction.
Pantagruel February 09, 2021 at 17:15 #498232
Nicholas Nickleby by Charles Dickens
Pantagruel February 11, 2021 at 11:52 #498669
Ideology and Utopia by Karl Mannheim
Streetlight February 13, 2021 at 07:30 #499265
Giovanni Arrighi - Adam Smith In Beijing: Lineages of the Twenty-First Century
Nick Srnicek - Platform Capitalism
McKenzie Wark - Capital is Dead. Is This Something Worse?
Deleteduserrc February 19, 2021 at 03:39 #501162
The Taoist Body - Kristofer Schipper
Crowds and Power - Elias Canetti
The Dispossessed - Ursula K LeGuin (so-so, making myself continue. Kind of like a left-libertarian Ayn Rand book, though the prose and characters are better, all in all.)
Shamanism - Mircea Eliade
Sabbaths Wendell Berry ( reading one poem each Sunday morning)
praxis February 19, 2021 at 04:42 #501163
Finally finished 4 3 2 1 by Paul Auster. Almost 900 pages about 4 different versions of the same characters. Great but had to take a few breaks from it and read other books.
180 Proof February 19, 2021 at 05:54 #501168
Reply to csalisbury :up: Canetti, Le Guin & Eliade ... It's been so long, time for me to revisit them (& their other works).
Deleteduserrc February 20, 2021 at 22:34 #501571
Reply to 180 Proof
I'm enjoying the mix, trying to do a chapter/section of each a day. My first time reading Crowds & Power besides a desultory flipping-through the first pages a long time ago. I like how clean and readable the prose is - it goes down really easy. Eliade's Shamanism is much denser - some technical/academic philosophy of religion discussion gluing together a shit ton of hyper-detailed anthropological case studies (much, much baggier and far-flung than The Sacred and the Profane.) Doesn't go down so easy, but it's really fascinating.
Photios February 20, 2021 at 23:42 #501598
Philo of Alexandria, by Maren Niehoff

A fascinating read so far.
rntalley February 21, 2021 at 15:36 #501834
Reply to 180 Proof
More dystopian literature:
Anthem by Ayn Rand
We by Yevgeny Zamyatin
A Boy and His Dog by Harlan Ellison
Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury
The Lathe of Heaven by Ursula K. Le Guin
rntalley February 21, 2021 at 15:49 #501836
If you want to get the full flavor of the genre, there are pre-apocalyptic (trouble ahead), apocalyptic (it's here!), post-apocalytic (how we pick up the pieces and try to survive), dystopia (society works - but by a perversion of our current system of social codes), and anti-utopia (a flawed and maximally unpleasant world).
180 Proof February 21, 2021 at 18:50 #501867
Reply to rntalley I had responded to Reply to darthbarracuda whose list already includes Zamyatin & Bradbury. I prefer Le Guin's The Dispossessed or her The Left Hand of Darkness, but your other suggestions are okay (except Ayn Rand's puerile fan-fic). Anyway, thanks, and welcome to TPF.
Pantagruel February 22, 2021 at 11:37 #502077
The Intellectuals and the Masses by John Carey
An overlooked item from my own library. Elitist orthodox intelligentsia as a contributing factor to the Holocaust.
_db February 23, 2021 at 03:25 #502264
Kant's Transcendental Idealism (1st ed), Henry Allison
Pantagruel February 23, 2021 at 11:16 #502378
Toward a Psychology of Being by Abraham Maslow
Count Timothy von Icarus February 25, 2021 at 02:29 #502843
Finally finishing William Durant's The Age of Faith, which is on the Middle Ages. Durant covers the history of the West from antiquity to the death of Napoleon in his 11 volume "Story of Civilization." Although it focuses on the "West" it covers history as far afield as Persia in detail. Even at 1,200 pages, the Middle Ages get the shortest amount of detail. Greek antiquity and the Roman Empire to Constantine each get their own book.

Fantastic prose and insight. A joy to read. It covers all topics, going into art, poetry, theology, science, trade, war , and politics.

There are great aphorisms spread throughout. On the topic of decadence and societal decay: "every civilization is born a stoic, and dies an Epicurean." On the foibles of war "ever must the fertility of woman struggle to make up for the foolishness of man and the bravery of generals." Aside from Gibbon I don't know if I've ever read such keen insight and quality prose in history, and I read a lot of history. Which is not to say the long sections on architecture don't get to be a bit much.

It's taken me forever because it got me rereading the Canterbury Tales and Beowulf.

Now I'm reading Le Morte d'Arthur. It isn't on the level of the Iliad in art, nor as enjoyable as the distinct stories of The Arabian Nights, but it has a certain appeal. It's rough around the edges, which is part of what makes it really capture the feel of the high Middle Ages. It's an irony that chivalry truly peaked at just the time that gunpowder and mercenary armies would soon make it go extinct. I don't know if I'm going to read it cover to cover, most likely not. More of a cool archetypal story collection to dip into, like the Arabian Nights and Grimm's Fairy Tales, which I also pick up from time to time. The Witcher short stories (Last Wish and Sword of Destiny) are also pretty good collections for that sort of reading. I found the actual novels underwhelming though.
180 Proof February 25, 2021 at 23:37 #503148
February-March readings

The Darker the Night, the Brighter the Stars: A Neuropsychologist’s Odyssey, Paul Broks

How We Learn: Why Brains Learn Better Than Any Machine . . . for Now, Stanislas Dehaene

Skepticism and Mysticism: On Mauthner's Critique of Language by Gustav Landauer 1903, David Grunwald

New Jerusalem: The Interrogation of Baruch de Spinoza at Talmud Torah Congregation: Amsterdam, July 27, 1656, David Ives

After Capitalism (New 2nd Edition), David Scweickart

Hitler's American Model, James Q. Whitman
Pierre-Normand February 28, 2021 at 21:19 #504116
Matthew McManus, The Rise of Post-Modern Conservatism Neoliberalism, Post-Modern Culture, and Reactionary Politics, Palgrave MacMillan, 2020

Halfway through... Very good, so far.

Pierre-Normand February 28, 2021 at 22:04 #504132
Also, read last September, three excellent papers by Victoria McGeer:

Mindshaping is Inescapable, Social Injustice is not: Reflections on Haslanger’s Critical Social Theory, Australasian Philosophical Review, 3:1, 48-59, 2020

Intelligent Capacitie, Proceedings of the Aristotelian Society, Vol. cxviii, Part 3, 2018

Scaffolding agency: A proleptic account of the reactive attitudes, Eur J Philos. 2018;1–23.




frank March 01, 2021 at 01:29 #504178
Quoting Pierre-Normand
Mindshaping is Inescapable, Social Injustice is not: Reflections on Haslanger’s Critical Social Theory, Australasian Philosophical Review, 3:1, 48-59, 2020


That looks good.
Streetlight March 02, 2021 at 00:27 #504549
Robert Brenner - The Economics of Global Turbulence: The Advanced Capitalist Economies from Long Boom to Long Downturn, 1945–2005

Reply to darthbarracuda :up:
180 Proof March 02, 2021 at 01:18 #504563
Pantagruel March 02, 2021 at 18:49 #504820
The Antiquary by Sir Walter Scott
Essay on Metaphysics by R.G. Collingwood
Maw March 03, 2021 at 18:53 #505236
Finished Liberty and Property a couple of days ago. Just finishing up the last 100 pages of Grundrisse.
180 Proof March 03, 2021 at 18:58 #505237
Reply to Maw Any thoughts (or clarifications, if the latter was a rereading) you can share, comrade?
bert1 March 03, 2021 at 19:52 #505258
Assertive Masturbation: Self Worth Through Self Knowledge, Jeremy Fornby
Maw March 04, 2021 at 03:58 #505434
Reply to 180 Proof Yeah I'll post some thoughts after I finish, hopefully by this weekend.
_db March 04, 2021 at 20:10 #505733
Slowly but steadily, I have been working my way through Ellul's The Technological Society. This passage (among others) stood out:

Herein lies the inversion we are witnessing. Without exception in the course of history, technique belonged to a civilization and was merely a single element among a host of nontechnical activities. Today technique has taken over the whole of civilization. Certainly, technique is no longer the simple machine substitute for human labor. It has come to be the "intervention into the very substance not only of the inorganic but also of the organic."
Pantagruel March 09, 2021 at 23:52 #508395
The Master and Margarita by Mikhail Bulgakov
The Metaphysics of Pragmatism by Sidney Hook
javi2541997 March 10, 2021 at 12:27 #508586
The Revolt of Masses by José Ortega y Gasset.
Maw March 10, 2021 at 18:01 #508654
Reply to 180 Proof

This was my first read of Grundrisse, and so it was interesting to compare with Capital given that the latter was an edited work, whereas Grundrisse is collected manuscript of notes that wasn't meant for publication (and was never completed anyway). So through stream of consciousness, it reveals a certain side of Marx that you don't quite see in Capital. Of course Marx develops his economic thoughts more concisely in Capital (and there's more writing on class struggle in V1), so it shouldn't be a substitute for it, but through the occasional digressions in Grundrisse he reveals more overarching thoughts about society, such as alienation, ideological production under Capitalism, and human development, and some abstract considerations for what Marx's post-Capitalist society might look like. For example, the creation of disposable time that becomes theoretically available for all under Capitalism, but, for the working class, becomes subsumed under Capitalism's raison d'etre viz., wealth accumulation. Under Marx's socialism, real wealth comes from disposable time so that all individuals may pursue their own free desires, interests, and other means that enable and fulfill self-development.

The creation of a large quantity of disposable time apart from necessary labour time for society generally and each of its members (i.e. room for the development of the individuals’ full productive forces, hence those of society also), this creation of not-labour time appears in the stage of capital, as of all earlier ones, as not-labour time, free time, for a few....

It is thus, despite itself, instrumental in creating the means of social disposable time, in order to reduce labour time for the whole society to a diminishing minimum, and thus to free everyone’s time for their own development.

But its tendency always, on the one side, to create disposable time, on the other, to convert it into surplus labour.

For real wealth is the developed productive power of all individuals. The measure of wealth is then not any longer, in any way, labour time, but rather disposable time.


A page earlier from the above, he approvingly quotes a passage from an early 19th century book,

‘Truly wealthy a nation, when the working day is 6 rather than 12 hours. Wealth is not command over surplus labour time’ (real wealth), ‘but rather, disposable time outside that needed in direct production, for every individual and the whole society.’


But I think the largest benefit of reading Grundrisse, for me, was that it threaded together Capitalist production, circulation, distribution, and consumption (which are more isolated focus points that comprise the three volumes of Capital), thereby edifying their interactivity and emphasizing the Totality of the Capitalist system, which further elucidates Capitalism as a profoundly complex mode of production and in turn has decisive effects on society and social relationships. This helped further clarify Marx's Historical Materialism for me.
Maw March 11, 2021 at 00:45 #508800
Speaking of:

It is thus, despite itself, instrumental in creating the means of social disposable time, in order to reduce labour time for the whole society to a diminishing minimum, and thus to free everyone’s time for their own development. But its tendency always, on the one side, to create disposable time, on the other, to convert it into surplus labour.


For Creators, Everything Is for Sale

But as the market gets more and more competitive — and the platforms and their algorithms remain unreliable — creators are devising new, hyper-specific revenue streams.

One comes in the form of NewNew, a start-up in Los Angeles, that describes its product as creating a “human stock market.” On the app, fans pay to vote in polls to control some of a creator’s day-to-day decisions.

Courtne Smith, the founder and chief executive of NewNew, said the company was “similar to the stock market” in that “you can buy shares, which are essentially votes, to be able to control a certain level of a person’s life.”

“We’re building an economy of attention where you purchase moments in other people’s lives, and we take it a step further by allowing and enabling people to control those moments,” she said.


:death:
180 Proof March 11, 2021 at 01:22 #508814
Reply to Maw :clap: Great précis – especially underscoring disposable time (now I recall where I must have gotten the idea decades ago that productivity increases by 'producing the same quantity in less time' and not by 'producing a greater quantity in the same time'). Thanks, comrade!
Maw March 11, 2021 at 04:19 #508880
Reply to 180 Proof :up: :flower:

Black Marxism: The Making of the Black Radical Tradition by Cedric Robinson
Pantagruel March 14, 2021 at 19:03 #510353
Just broke the bank on Max Scheler:

[i]On Feeling, Knowing, and Valuing: Selected Writings
The Constitution of the Human Being: From the Posthumous Works, Volumes 11 and 12
Selected Philosophical Essays[/i]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xOqhJnPtLxxDBVxGNLPjjrfoxTp7-WuL/view?usp=sharing

Pantagruel March 15, 2021 at 16:45 #510614
Introduction to Metaphysics by Martin Heidegger

Apparently Heidegger conceived this work to be both a companion and the heir to Being and Time. It's been on my bookshelf for nearly a decade - overlooked gem.
javi2541997 March 15, 2021 at 16:59 #510618
Quoting Pantagruel
Martin Heidegger


If you don’t mind I want recommend you an interesting book called Heidegger and a hippo walk through those pearly gates. by Thomas Cathcart and Daniel M. Klein.
It is about the role of death in a philosophical point of view.
Pantagruel March 15, 2021 at 17:11 #510622
Reply to javi2541997 I don't mind at all, I appreciate the suggestion. Thank you. :)
Streetlight March 18, 2021 at 23:41 #512053
Robert Brenner - The Boom and the Bubble: The US in the World Economy
Mckenzie Wark - A Hacker Manifesto
Various things by Leibniz (The Monadology, Discourse on Metaphysics, Principles of Nature and Grace...)
Pantagruel March 19, 2021 at 18:39 #512318
Time enough for Love by Robert Heinlen
180 Proof March 19, 2021 at 23:36 #512369
The Psychology of Stupidity, ed. Jean-François Marmion

:rofl: :clap: :fire:
Pantagruel March 24, 2021 at 12:37 #514145
The Constitution of the Human Being by Max Scheler

Max's central writings on metaphysics and anthropology
javi2541997 March 24, 2021 at 15:58 #514196
Novel with cocaine. by M. Aguéiev.
Streetlight March 27, 2021 at 13:39 #515413
Michael Hudson - Super Imperialism: The Origin and Fundamentals of U.S. World Dominance
Gilles Deleuze - The Fold: Leibniz and the Baroque
frank March 27, 2021 at 14:32 #515437
Reply to StreetlightX
David Harvey on the contemporary neoliberal elite:

"The question arises, and has been much debated, as to whether this new class configuration should be considered as transnational or whether it can be still understood as something based exclusively within the parameters of the nation-state.32 My own position is this. The case that the ruling class anywhere has ever confined its operations and defined its loyalties to any one nation-state has historically been much overstated. It never did make much sense to speak of a distinctively US versus British or French or German or Korean capitalist class. The international links were always important, particularly through colonial and neocolonial activities, but also through transnational connections that go back to the nineteenth century if not before. But there has undoubtedly been a deepening as well as a widening of these transnational connections during the phase of neoliberal globalization, and it is vital that these connectivities be acknowledged. This does not mean, however, that the leading individuals within this class do not attach themselves to specific state apparatuses for both the advantages and the protections that this affords them. Where they specifically attach themselves is important, but is no more stable than the capitalist activity they pursue. Rupert Murdoch may begin in Australia then concentrate on Britain before finally taking up citizenship (doubtless on an accelerated schedule) in the US. He is not above or outside particular state powers, but by the same token he wields considerable influence via his media interests in politics in Britain, the US, and Australia. All 247 of the supposedly independent editors of his newspapers worldwide supported the US invasion of Iraq. As a form of shorthand, however, it still makes sense to speak about US or British or Korean capitalist class interests because corporate interests like Murdoch’s or those of Carlos Slim or the Salim group both feed off and nurture specific state apparatuses. Each can and typically does, however, exert class power in more than one state simultaneously. While this disparate group of individuals embedded in the corporate, financial, trading, and developer worlds do not necessarily conspire as a class, and while there may be frequent tensions between them, they nevertheless possess a certain accordance of interests that generally recognizes the advantages (and now some of the dangers) to be derived from neoliberalization. They also possess, through organizations like the World Economic Forum at Davos, means of exchanging ideas and of consorting and consulting with political leaders. They exercise immense influence over global affairs and possess a freedom of action that no ordinary citizen possesses."
180 Proof March 27, 2021 at 18:17 #515496
The Selected Writings of Pierre Hadot: Philosophy As Practice, ed. Keith Ansell Pearson
Streetlight March 27, 2021 at 19:27 #515519
Reply to frank Hudson's book is not about neoliberalism. It's about political the use the U.S. has made of the fact that the dollar is effectively the world's reserve currency, and how this translates to a certain financial imperialism on their part. It was written in the 70s so it's far more about international financial institutions - the World Bank and IMF in particular.
frank March 27, 2021 at 21:27 #515564
Reply to StreetlightX

Does it talk about how NY banks loaned money to foreign governments, waited for them to get close to default, and then came in and reorganized their economies?



Quoting StreetlightX
It was written in the 70s so it's far more about international financial institutions - the World Bank and IMF in particular


But neoliberalism is about the rise of financial institutions as central figures in the global economy. The World Bank and the IMF have been used as vehicles for it. Harvey says that in the 70s, neoliberals were learning to force change in non-democratic states and create consent in democratic ones. By the 80s, neoliberalism had already become "common sense."

I'd be interested in a 1970s viewpoint on what was happening.
Streetlight March 27, 2021 at 21:29 #515567
Reply to frank I'll let you know when I'm through it a bit more. Just started.
frank March 27, 2021 at 21:30 #515568
Maw March 29, 2021 at 15:18 #516202
Black Skin, White Masks by Frantz Fanon
180 Proof March 29, 2021 at 15:46 #516208
Reply to Maw :up:

The Ethical Slut (3rd Edition), D. Easton & J. Hardy
Marx: A Philosophy of Human Reality, Michel Henry
From Communism to Capitalism: Theory of a Catastrophe, Michel Henry
Pantagruel April 01, 2021 at 10:55 #517310
Quoting 180 Proof
The Selected Writings of Pierre Hadot: Philosophy As Practice, ed. Keith Ansell Pearson


Nice.
Maw April 04, 2021 at 17:03 #518634
The Origin of Capitalism by Ellen Meiksins Wood (rereading)
Manuel April 05, 2021 at 19:56 #519077
Philosophy of Redemption (Spanish edition) - Phillip Mainländer
180 Proof April 05, 2021 at 20:33 #519110
Manuel April 05, 2021 at 21:21 #519140
Reply to 180 Proof
:rofl:

Yeah! It's hard to read cause' it's so, so dark, but he has interesting things to say in terms of metaphysics and epistemology. :)
180 Proof April 05, 2021 at 21:26 #519144
Reply to Manuel I wish I could find a good, contemporary, translation in English. My German was never good enough, and when my Spanish was far less rough than it is now I hadn't bother to look for a Spanish translation. Are you from / living in Spain?
Manuel April 05, 2021 at 21:52 #519157
Reply to 180 Proof
Am currently in Spain, where I am from, is a good philosophical question. Dominican/Spanish/American :)

Actually, I might be able to help. I would not have discovered the Spanish version (which is sadly just selections from the whole book, some 300 pages out of what 800 to 1000 pages?), if I had not stumbled onto Mainländer through reddit. Long story short, the official translation should be out next year, but, a very enthusiastic person, translated whole portions of the book in English. It's not perfect, but it's quite good. I'll send you the link to the work and, by all means, check out the site, plenty of good Mainländer stuff there.

Here's the link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Mainlander/comments/93778q/pdf_of_the_english_translations_of_mainl%C3%A4nders/

Enjoy!
Maw April 05, 2021 at 22:04 #519161
Speaking of which, still hoping for an eventual English translation of Peter Zapffe's On The Tragic
180 Proof April 05, 2021 at 22:26 #519172
Quoting Manuel
Here's the link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Mainlander/comments/93778q/pdf_of_the_english_translations_of_mainl%C3%A4nders/

Enjoy!

:up: ¡Gracias, hombre!

Reply to Maw Hell yes! :fire:

Pantagruel April 06, 2021 at 12:49 #519367
The Complete Stories by Franz Kafka

edit: for a really interesting excursion into the social mechanics of epistemology the short story "The Village Schoolmaster" is a really fun read.
180 Proof April 07, 2021 at 08:35 #519720
Reply to Pantagruel :up:

March-April readings

Klara and the Sun, Kazuo Ishiguro
Last Chance Texaco: Chronicles of an American Troubadour, Rickie Lee Jones
The Prophets, Robert Jones, Jr
Holes and Other Superficialities, R. Casati & A.C. Varzi

Still reading

The Selected Writings of Pierre Hadot: Philosophy As Practice, ed. Keith Ansell Pearson
• Marx: A Philosophy of Human Reality, Michel Henry
• From Communism to Capitalism: Theory of a Catastrophe, Michel Henry

Rereading

The Old Guard Book One: Opening Fire, Greg Rucka & Leandro Fernandez
The Old Guard Book Two: Force Multiplied, Greg Rucka & Leandro Fernandez
javi2541997 April 07, 2021 at 14:30 #519794
The concept of anxiety by Søne Kierkegaard.
Maw April 11, 2021 at 23:09 #521674
Liberalism: A Counter-History by Domenico Losurdo
Deleteduserrc April 11, 2021 at 23:45 #521683
The Orchard Keeper - Cormac Mccarthy
There There- Tommy Orange
Collected Stories - Chekov
Leaves of Grass Walt Whitman
Palm at the End of the Mind - Wallace Stevens (collection of poems edited by his daughter)


Reply to Maw I tend to avoid confrontation and lie, but one vibe you get in Chekhov, is that a bunch of currents, very current then, petered out. Negri & Hardt, for example, analogy. But marx doesnt. something burst forth from him. Synoptic, and omni-literary-voracious. I worry our generations leftists too easily... I mean a marx of our time wouldnt have only read marx and left-sympathetic texts, you know? What you reading from the right?

180 Proof April 12, 2021 at 01:01 #521707
Streetlight April 12, 2021 at 12:40 #521857
Ellen Meiksins Wood - Empire of Capital

--

@frank: So I finished reading Hudson's Super Imperialism and like I thought, it really isn't about neoliberalism at all. It is very much a history and account of state action, focusing on international monetary and trade policy (along with the institutions I mentioned). An alternative subtitle to it may have been: how the US has financially bullied the rest of the world - including and especially it's 'allies' - into economic submission from WWI to the 70s and beyond. It's even explicitly written against Marxist accounts (Hudson is a Keynesian) by trying to show how the American state has functioned as an autonomous agency at a remove from (just) class politics in order to effect a world economy oriented around American trade and foreign policy interests (particularly - getting the rest of the world to pay for America's wars and debts). If anything, neoliberalism piggy-backed off this success and developed into its own, subsequent autonomous force. In any case, I don't quite see it as a 'competition' - both state and capitalist power can and do function autonomously and in interaction with one another, at points complimenting, at other points clashing with one another.

While it's probably fair to say that the state has been progressively subsumed by neoliberal interests, it's also the case that the state worked to incubate and foster those interests in an environment in which the state was very much in the driver's seat. That all said, it's a great book to understand exactly how world finance shaped up post-WWI, and exactly what happened with the gold standard and the legacy that its abandonment left.

@Maw and @180 Proof - love your recent reads.
frank April 12, 2021 at 14:28 #521890
Quoting StreetlightX
If anything, neoliberalism piggy-backed off this success and developed into its own, subsequent autonomous force. In any case, I don't quite see it as a 'competition' - both state and capitalist power can and do function autonomously and in interaction with one another, at points complimenting, at other points clashing with one another.


True. Since I read David Harvey's book, I've struggled to put the pieces together. I thought we should look at large scale events as fusions of diverse agendas that we later organize by ideas. Harvey and Blyth both emphasize the importance of the idea in the case of neoliberalism. Yes, there's a global class of elites who reinforce the idea, but this class was actually created by the rise of neoliberalism. It wasn't there previously to engineer events.

As it relates to American military intervention, remember the US was demilitarized prior to WW2. This is one of the reasons the Japanese attacked when they did. They had information that American soldiers practiced with broomsticks because they didn't have rifles. It took two years of war before the American military was capable of contributing substantially. During that time the military-industrial complex was formed.

So when we look at American interventions post WW2, we're looking at how people the US government decided to use the logistical infrastructure they inherited. The Cold War gave them freedom to experiment with South America. Harvey sees the Chilean experiment as ground zero for the rise of neoliberal values. The US neoliberalized Chile when the US itself still had embedded liberalism. From that point on, success in military adventures was measured by how well any form of social solidarity had been destroyed in favor of the rise of an elite class who could be manipulated. Whether it might have been immoral to do this just wasn't considered in the light of the threat of communism within and without the US.

So anyway, yes, Harvey says neoliberalism is quasi-independent of states. I've just been trying to understand how. I'm going to read Mark Blyth's book Great Transformations next.
Maw April 12, 2021 at 15:11 #521896
Quoting csalisbury
What you reading from the right?


I read Ayn Rand, Hayek, Milton Friedman, von Mises, Murray Rothbard when I was 20 to around 24 when they enjoyed a resurgence of interest shortly after Obama was elected. I read Locke and Burke not long after that...some Buckley too. Mostly centered on far right-wing economics.

Culturally, Trump's election in 2016, Bannon's brief role, and some additional individuals and events, changed the trajectory of conservative intellectual interest away from the more economic-focused thinkers and towards more unsavory socio-political ones, such as Evola, Schmitt, etc. whom I don't have much interest engaging with, at least at book-level, at this point. Otherwise, I've read some First Things and Claremont Institute articles, some Yoram Hazony, National Review, Douthat op-eds from time-to-time, but I don't find any of them intellectually serious.
Maw April 12, 2021 at 15:13 #521897
Quoting frank
Harvey says neoliberalism is quasi-independent of states. I've just been trying to understand how


Quinn Slobodian's Globalists: The End of Empire and the Birth of Neoliberalism might be helpful here
frank April 12, 2021 at 15:40 #521909
Reply to Maw Cool. I bought it.
Streetlight April 13, 2021 at 05:41 #522182
Quoting frank
So anyway, yes, Harvey says neoliberalism is quasi-independent of states. I've just been trying to understand how. I'm going to read Mark Blyth's book Great Transformations next.


The idea, I imagine, is that neoliberalism - although frankly I would prefer to talk here simply of capitalism - has interests and imperatives that simply do not coincide with states. So like, if you take the primary function of the state to be either say, the consolidation of sovereignty over a territory, or uncharitably, to extract the resources of a territory for the purposes of an exploiting class, the interests of capitalism - endless expansion of accumulation - do not coincide that of states.

With respect to neoliberalism in particular, you can see how this operates when states enter into commercial agreements with regard to the privatization of public resources. In these cases states cede sovereignty so that private companies take control of public resources - sometimes with 'perks' like reduced tax rates, laws that restrict competition, exceptions for environmental controls etc. And more than half the time these companies are multinationals which end up funnelling money offshore, so your population is left holding the bag of increased living costs while profits leave the country.

As an aside, Wood's Empire of Capital, which I'm reading now, is working towards making the case that "capitalism is unique it its capacity to detach economic from extra-economic power, and that this, among other things, implies that the economic power of capital can reach far beyond the grasp of any existing or conceivable, political or military power. At the same time, capitalism's extra-economic power cannot exist with the support of extra-economic force; and that extra-economic force is today, as before, primarily supplied by the state". I'm just on the early, historical bits (dealing with the Roman, Spanish, Arab, Dutch empires etc), so I haven't got to the meat of the argument just yet, but I thought it was relevant.

(If you want to get mad, read this shit: "Virginia’s 2006 contract with two private firms to build toll lanes on the Capital Beltway requires the state to compensate the companies whenever carpools exceed 24 percent of traffic in carpool lanes for the next forty years—“or until the builders make $100 million in profits.”; In 2008, the private consortium that owns the Northwest Parkway in Denver, Colorado, opposed improvements to a nearby public road, pointing to contract language that barred improvements—for 99 years—on city-owned roads that might divert traffic and “hurt the parkway financially.”; The state of Indiana had to reimburse the private company operating the Indiana Toll Road $447,000 in 2008 because the state waived the tolls of people who had to evacuate during severe flooding. The company also refused to allow state troopers to close the toll road during a snowstorm because it would hurt profits.")
180 Proof April 13, 2021 at 05:56 #522187
Reply to StreetlightX Your summa of Hudson's history of US global economic hegemony in the 20th century, comrade, is spot on with all I've gleaned from decades of study and living through its ongoing, strategic imbalances and neglects here in the states. :clap:
Streetlight April 13, 2021 at 06:12 #522191
Reply to 180 Proof Thanks! If I have time I might try and write a slightly more in depth review with a bit more meat on it.
Pantagruel April 13, 2021 at 11:31 #522312
On Feeling, Knowing, and Valuing by Max Scheler
Ying April 13, 2021 at 12:22 #522328
Does listening to lecture series count? Well, whatever. :razz:

Currently going through the following:

-James Hynes, "Writing Great Fiction: Storytelling Tips and Techniques".
-Richard Spence, "The Real History of Secret Societies".
Antilogic April 13, 2021 at 13:30 #522346
After Virtue: A Study in Moral Theory by Alasdair MacIntyre
frank April 13, 2021 at 20:02 #522487
Quoting StreetlightX
If you want to get mad, read this shit:


It's insane.

Quoting StreetlightX
If I have time I might try and write a slightly more in depth review with a bit more meat on it.


That would be much appreciated.
Deleteduserrc April 14, 2021 at 00:24 #522576
Quoting Maw
I read Ayn Rand, Hayek, Milton Friedman, von Mises, Murray Rothbard when I was 20 to around 24 when they enjoyed a resurgence of interest shortly after Obama was elected. I read Locke and Burke not long after that...some Buckley too. Mostly centered on far right-wing economics.

Culturally, Trump's election in 2016, Bannon's brief role, and some additional individuals and events, changed the trajectory of conservative intellectual interest away from the more economic-focused thinkers and towards more unsavory socio-political ones, such as Evola, Schmitt, etc. whom I don't have much interest engaging with, at least at book-level, at this point. Otherwise, I've read some First Things and Claremont Institute articles, some Yoram Hazony, National Review, Douthat op-eds from time-to-time, but I don't find any of them intellectually serious.


:up: Challenge presented, and handily taken down, respect. My personal go-tos have been 'rationalist community' adjacent-thinkers. I don't tend to agree with their economic views, but they present their ideas much better than most culture-war people, like the national review or douthat etc. Ideally, to me, the end goal of learning history and economic thought should be (1) fully understanding the present and then (2) something like the serenity prayer - "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference." The danger - and something you often see - is trying to leverage the historical/theoretical stuff in service of sustained, fact-checked, condemnation as endpoint. Not that one shouldn't condemn what is condemnable, of course, just avoid ending there. If we agree there, then we're on the same page.
Deleteduserrc April 14, 2021 at 21:24 #522898
Reply to StreetlightX @frank

That fits nicely with Harvey's analysis, as I remember it (been a while, & I think I only read the first 3/5 or so) Ideological 'neoliberals' want to reduce the role of the state, officially, but their ideology includes an explicit awareness that the state will have to continue to serve some minimal, order-sustaining role. But when theory becomes reality, the ideologically purity of the economic-eye-from-nowhere theorist is lost - Once the state gives a businessman some special dispensation, that businessman has every incentive to milk that dispensation - and so you have a weird chimera that's part- 'pure'-neoliberal, part-patchwork-of-state-cronies. (I it can also go the other way, the state calling upon its cronies - I vaguely remember something about thatcher and the Falklands War in Harvey's book?)What we call 'neoliberalism' is that chimera - which, as you guys are saying, involves two semi-autonomous, but deeply linked...entities? (hard to find the right word here...it's not 'entities')

The toll-booth stories are a great example.

But rather than get mad, maybe it's better to suss out what the current incentive structure is - how it leads, of its own autonomous logic to monstrosities - and then figure out how to break out of it. Not that anger's bad. But there are different types of anger, or, if you like, modes of using anger.

It's like Marx's contradictions - we have a moral desire to condemn and locate evil in the heart of the evildoer, but we also have a (marx-derived) understanding that we're dealing primarily with systemic issues, extra-personal structures that are like geology meets sociology (Levi-Strauss). This contradiction is as potent as that between use and exchange values. We want to be the prophet righteously denouncing, while at the same time we want to be someone who understands that it's the system that's broken - and a system's insentient, our righteous denunciations can't even fall on deaf ears - there's no ears at all. Which is more effective - the denunciating prophet, or the patient, focused steward of systemic evolution in time? Maybe the steward needs the passion, and the prophet needs the project. Surely the resolution is meaningful action.

A good historical analysis would resist the urge to denounce, and channel the anger into understanding (1) the conditions of the incentive structure that led to that toll-booth shit & (2) understanding the present, through the past, find a plausible model for how to get out of it then finally (3) act upon that. That's about as marxist as you can get.

(@StreetlightX if this is clogging up the 'currently reading' i wouldn't be offended at it being split off into a new thread.)
frank April 15, 2021 at 17:42 #523217
Quoting csalisbury
Ideological 'neoliberals' want to reduce the role of the state, officially, but their ideology includes an explicit awareness that the state will have to continue to serve some minimal, order-sustaining role.


Yes, liberals need states to protect property rights.
Neoliberalism is a doctrine that's very hostile to labor solidarity. Globalization successfully limits the power of labor by making Europeans compete with Chinese, for instance. States help reduce the mobility of labor, which helps keep them weak.

Streetlight April 16, 2021 at 01:07 #523375
Jairus Banaji - A Brief History of Commercial Capitalism
Jairus Banaji - Theory As History: Essays on Modes of Production and Exploitation
_db April 16, 2021 at 23:21 #523699
The Rebel, Albert Camus
Manuel April 17, 2021 at 18:43 #523980
Currently reading:

Dance Dance Dance - Haruki Murakami
Writings 1902-1910 by William James
EuroTragedy: A Drama in Nine Acts by Ashoka Mody
Understanding Disney: Manufacturing Fantasy by Janet Wasko
javi2541997 April 17, 2021 at 19:04 #523992
Quoting Manuel
Haruki Murakami


:100: :up:

I also like Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World and 1Q84
Manuel April 17, 2021 at 19:12 #523998
Quoting javi2541997
Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World and 1Q84


:cheer: :fire:

Both fantastic books! I'm re-reading this one and my next re-read is gonna be Hard-Boiled Wonderland, it was my favorite of his from what I can recall.

1Q84 was also great. :)

Haven't heard very good things about Killing Commendatore, so I'm very hesitant to read it...
javi2541997 April 17, 2021 at 19:18 #524000
Quoting Manuel
Haven't heard very good things about Killing Commendatore, so I'm very hesitant to read it...


Me neither! Because Murakami has an extent collection of books. In my case, I will give it a chance to Colorless Tsukuru Tazaki and His Years of Pilgrimage the title looks so interesting so I decided purchasing it.
Manuel April 17, 2021 at 19:27 #524003
Quoting javi2541997
Colorless Tsukuru Tazaki and His Years of Pilgrimage


I stopped after 1Q84, I read like 6 of his books in a row. But I wanted to read different authors.

I might try that one: some people say it's very good, other people not so much.
_db April 17, 2021 at 19:30 #524005
Also started The AI Delusion by Gary Smith.
Pantagruel April 17, 2021 at 19:33 #524008
You ever wish you could read all your books and all the ones that everyone else on here posts also? :chin:
javi2541997 April 17, 2021 at 19:43 #524011
Quoting Pantagruel
You ever wish you could read all your books and all the ones that everyone else on here posts also? :chin:


That would be so awesome. Also I made a goal to myself try to read at least one book from a Nobel prize winner. I find it interesting :sweat:
Pantagruel April 18, 2021 at 02:26 #524169
Quoting javi2541997
That would be so awesome. Also I made a goal to myself try to read at least one book from a Nobel prize winner. I find it interesting :sweat:


:up:
180 Proof April 23, 2021 at 16:43 #526217
Mama's Last Hug, Frans de Waal
Pantagruel April 23, 2021 at 19:08 #526278
Selected Philosophical Essays by Max Scheler
Snakes Alive April 23, 2021 at 22:20 #526356
Jesus from Outer Space – Richard Carrier
The Amazing Colossal Apostle – Robert Price
The Great Angel: A Study of Israel's Second God – Margaret Barker
Pantagruel April 25, 2021 at 16:05 #527088
Our Mutual Friend by Charles Dickens
I love Dickens as historical documentation of the exploitive excess of early capitalism and the counter-balancing social sentiments and trends. Dickens is a great complement to Marx.
Mikie April 26, 2021 at 17:46 #527845
The Framers' Coup: The Making of the United States Constitution by Michael Klarman

Highly recommended.
Maw April 28, 2021 at 18:21 #528854
The Bourgeois: Between History and Literature by Franco Moretti

Quoting Maw
Liberalism: A Counter-History by Domenico Losurdo


This was brilliant, can't recommend enough
Streetlight April 28, 2021 at 19:06 #528875
Quoting Maw
Franco Moretti


I've been mildly curious about this bloke but you should read him while keeping in mind that he is a prolific sexual abuser.
Maw April 28, 2021 at 19:30 #528894
Reply to StreetlightX gah well that's quite upsetting.
180 Proof April 28, 2021 at 19:43 #528899
Reply to Xtrix :up: Seems like a worthy follow-up to Charles Beard's Economic Interpretation of the Constitution of the United States which I'd read (clandestinely) as a high school senior.

Saphsin April 29, 2021 at 07:48 #529105
86 - Asato Asato
Reflections on Socialism in the Twenty-First Century - Claes Brundenius
Janus April 29, 2021 at 22:14 #529381
Reply to StreetlightX You forgot to include the word "allegedly".
Streetlight April 30, 2021 at 00:43 #529444
Reply to Janus I don't believe I did.
Janus April 30, 2021 at 01:11 #529450
Reply to StreetlightX Right, I can only assume you didn't forget then; which is even worse.
Streetlight April 30, 2021 at 01:18 #529453
Reply to Janus Nah, I don't like treating sexual abusers with kid gloves. But feel free of course.
Janus April 30, 2021 at 01:28 #529456
Reply to StreetlightX So, do you treat alleged sexual abusers the same as you treat sexual abusers?
Streetlight April 30, 2021 at 01:32 #529457
Reply to Janus No, but this one I do.
Baden April 30, 2021 at 10:44 #529535
Fuck him.
Count Timothy von Icarus April 30, 2021 at 14:44 #529577
Anthony Kenny's New History of Western Philosophy. It got a lot of good reviews as the best single volume overview. Trying to fill in gaps and revisit old ideas, but so far it's been things I already knew by heart. I might skip ahead to after Plato, although my ability to recommend the book to others is contingent on see how well it handles topics I already know I suppose.

Also listening to Will Durant's the Story of Philosophy. Maybe there is too much overlap here, but I appreciate Durant enough as a writer to want to get his own unique take on different philosophers.

Then I'm also listening to the Great Courses series on the Persian Empire because I have a 2,000 mile drive coming up and need to reground myself in Greco-Persian history of a novel I want to right. Fantasy set in a roughly "real" world, with Christianity and references to real people like Aristotle, but taking place in the context of made up geographies, with magic and monsters, is a growing setting in the genre. I think it has real perks in that you can do plenty of world building, but also can allow people's knowledge of history and culture to do some heavy lifting. It also allows you to tackle philosophical concepts by direct reference.

Very little fantasy takes place in Classical Greece. Most is set in the Middle Ages. I thought a Greco-Persian setting would work well. You know, it's just that Pythagorean school men can actually war reality and do magic with their musical scales, and Zoroastrian priests can actually summon fire; it adds a little flash, so will sparring doses of hydras or gorgons.
180 Proof April 30, 2021 at 15:44 #529590
Reply to Count Timothy von Icarus Have you ever read the wonderfully speculative historical fiction by Gore Vidal titled Creation or the more grounded but no less speculative novel Julian? It's been decades but what you're interested in writing brought those novels immediately to mind. If I may, I very much recommend them.

NB: Burr and Lincoln are also among Mr. Vidal's best novels
Count Timothy von Icarus May 01, 2021 at 12:16 #529994
Reply to 180 Proof

Thanks for the tip. I will check out Creation , sounds like a similar time frame for what I'd like to use.

Guess Herodotus and Xenephon will be on the menu since you need to include the classic sights. I'm thinking if there is a metaphysical big evil it will be up north, above the Scythians, since there are way less sources on them so more can be changed. Of course Hyperborea is up that way too, and said big bad can be blamed for the Bronze Age collapse and burning of Knosis, so there is plenty to work with.
180 Proof May 01, 2021 at 13:34 #530008
Reply to Count Timothy von Icarus :cool:

Like a number of folks loitering on these fora, I've been "working on" a (novel) for some years too. A 'near-future, about-to-happen-singularity, climate apocalypse' scifi-thriller –

a spicy gumbo (of primary influences) such as

Neuropath by R. Scott Bakker,
Forever Peace by Joe Haldeman,
Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler,
The Children of Men by PD James,
A Philosophical Investigation by Philip Kerr

& the movies Ex Machina & Blade Runner

– whether a novel or an anthology of "stories" (like Max Brooks' World War Z), I haven't decided – the narrative hasn't dictated which – yet. It took over three years just to start writing after several years of gestating / procrastinating, then the pandemic hit and sapped the project's mojo. I think I've got a real tiger by the tale – not "grimdark" or "misery porn" as post/apoc stories tend to be – and hope sooner rather later this beast turns and bites me harder and harder till the writing gets done. Mention of your project, Count, is quite encouraging. :up:
Maw May 02, 2021 at 16:38 #530537
Mongrel Firebugs and Men of Property: Capitalism and Class Conflict in American History by Steve Fraser

FWIW I did think the Moretti book was very interesting.
Maw May 03, 2021 at 02:25 #530784
Verso is doing a May Day Sale. 40% off all books until May 17th.

Any recommendations? I previously bought a bunch of Ellen Wood books and Domenico Losurdo's Liberalism: A Counter History, all of which I recommend.
_db May 03, 2021 at 02:45 #530795
Allison's Kant's Transcendental Idealism has been phenomenal, albeit dense.
180 Proof May 05, 2021 at 05:46 #531647
April-May readings:

The Framer's Coup, Michael J. Klarman
The Self-Assembling Brain: How Neural Networks Grow Smarter, Peter Robin Hiesinger
Echo Tree: The Collected Short Fiction of Henry Dumas, ed. Eugene Redman
Project Hail Mary, Andy Weir

still reading:

Holes and Other Superficialities, R. Casati & A.C. Varzi
Mama's Last Hug, Frans de Waal
From Communism to Capitalism: Theory of a Catastrophe, Michel Henry
Streetlight May 07, 2021 at 11:31 #532624
Neil Davidson - How Revolutionary Were the Bourgeois Revolutions? An 800 page doorstop. Gonna be on this for a while.

Reply to 180 Proof How are you finding Henry? I've only read bits of his phenomenology which seems miles removed from politics, so I've been intrigued. Does he square the one with the other, or are they relatively independent?

Quoting Maw
Any recommendations?


Mike Davis, Andras Malm, Wolfgang Streeck, Erik Olin Wright, Gindin and Panitch! I think I'm going to pick up The People's Republic of Walmart next week.
180 Proof May 07, 2021 at 12:06 #532640
Reply to StreetlightX I'm ambivalent so far but pressing on. His 'political philosophy' from what I gather is a critique of how modern political systems, or ideologies, deny or negate (the autonomy? sovereignty? of) phenomenal subjectivity. Despite Henry's 'Christianism', what intrigues me is the radicalization of immanence (re: interiority of subjects) at the core of his project. Anyway, yeah, the politics & phenomenology (tend to) converge, much more subtly and nuanced than e.g. Sartre's Critique of ... or even Merleau-Ponty (other relevant names escape me at the moment).
Streetlight May 07, 2021 at 12:49 #532677
Quoting 180 Proof
a critique of how modern political systems, or ideologies, deny or negate (the autonomy? sovereignty? of) phenomenal subjectivity.


Ah, ok, I can see how that would work for him. Cool.
Corvus May 11, 2021 at 23:49 #534574
Merleau-Ponty's Philosophy by L. Haas.

This book seems a good introduction to Phenomenology and Merleau-Ponty's main ideas.
Pantagruel May 12, 2021 at 11:14 #534760
The Perennial Philosophy by Aldous Huxley
Jack Cummins May 12, 2021 at 12:37 #534777
Reply to Pantagruel
I read half of Huxley's' The Perennial Philosophy'. I may finish it later this week amongst replying to comments on my threads and applying for jobs. I am impressed by it so far.
Pantagruel May 12, 2021 at 12:47 #534785
Reply to Jack Cummins Have you read his book Ends and Means yet Jack?
Jack Cummins May 12, 2021 at 12:50 #534790
Reply to Pantagruel
I don't have 'Ends and Means'. I can't download any more books at present because I have filled the capacity of my Kindle and tablet. This is probably a good thing. But, when we have both finished 'The Perennial Philosophy', do you wish to discuss it?
Pantagruel May 12, 2021 at 12:52 #534792
Reply to Jack Cummins Absolutely.

Can you add an SD card to your tablet for more capacity?
Jack Cummins May 12, 2021 at 12:56 #534795
Reply to Pantagruel
I think that I am seeing my devices being full to mean that I need to read the books which I have. But, now that shops are open I will look out for paper books again.
Maw May 12, 2021 at 15:28 #534880
How the West Came to Rule: The Geopolitical Origins of Capitalism by Alexander Anievas and Kerem Nisancioglu
Streetlight May 12, 2021 at 15:33 #534884
Reply to Maw :starstruck: :love:

This is one I keep coming back to, it's so, so good.
Maw May 15, 2021 at 15:20 #536529
Reply to StreetlightX I'm about 1/3 the way through it and it's absolutely brilliant. Definitely one to return to again and again. Unfortunate title though, not sure how How The West Came to Rule perceptively plays out with passing neighbors when I read outside....
Manuel May 15, 2021 at 22:05 #536686
Now reading:

An Outline of Philosophy - Bertrand Russell

Up next:

Enemies of Hope - Raymond Tallis
Pure Invention - Matt Alt
Streetlight May 15, 2021 at 22:36 #536711
Reply to Maw You should have seen my paranoia in public when reading Zizek and Millbank's The Monstrosity of Christ.
Maw May 16, 2021 at 03:29 #536847
Reply to StreetlightX I think I can one up you here with when my copy of Zizek's First as Tragedy, Then As Farce fell out of my backpack on to the security belt in full view of the TSA agent at the airport a number of years ago.

User image
Maw May 22, 2021 at 19:06 #540371
Portraits: John Berger on Artists by John Berger
Maw May 24, 2021 at 00:28 #540946
Quoting StreetlightX
Neil Davidson - How Revolutionary Were the Bourgeois Revolutions?


Should I buy this? I know Anievas and Nisancioglu cite it multiple times.

Streetlight May 24, 2021 at 01:36 #540989
Reply to Maw I picked it up based on those references too and I'm really enjoying it. It isn't quite as engaging as West, but it's incredibly comprehensive. So far (I'm about 200/650 pages) it's very much a review of various approaches to (bourgeois) revolution rather than a history of the revolutions themselves (i.e. revolutions against the feudal order that installed the bougies rather than the proles into power - French, English, American mostly, some stuff on the Russian). It really goes through everyone though - like all the early thinkers - Paine, Locke, Burke, Adam Smith, etc - all the way up to 3 chapters on Marx and Engles' evolving approaches to the topic. Right now on Lenin and Trotsky. I assume the book keeps on like this till the present day. The thing I'm most getting out of it is the power of historical materialism as a tool of analysis and critique. The kinds of distinctions it makes and how it contrasts to more liberal-democratic approaches to society and history.

I'm learning a ton, and it's pretty easy to read. would recommend.
Maw May 24, 2021 at 02:47 #541011
Quoting StreetlightX
The thing I'm most getting out of it is the power of historical materialism as a tool of analysis and critique. The kinds of distinctions it makes and how it contrasts to more liberal-democratic approaches to society and history.


Sells it for me!
Corvus May 24, 2021 at 19:20 #541265
Logical Investigations
Vol. 1 & 2
by E. Husserl

180 Proof May 25, 2021 at 02:46 #541499
May-June readings

Quoting Maw
How the West Came to Rule: The Geopolitical Origins of Capitalism by Alexander Anievas and Kerem Nisancioglu

:up:

John Rawls: Reticent Socialist, William A. Edmundson
Helgoland, Carlo Rovelli
Manuel May 25, 2021 at 17:11 #541825
Currently rereading:

Never Let A Serious Crisis Go to Waste by Philip Mirowski

And also reading a novel:

The Good Son by You-Jeong Jeong
Pantagruel May 27, 2021 at 10:44 #542785
Reform or Revolution by Rosa Luxemburg
David Copperfield by Charles Dickens
Down The Rabbit Hole May 31, 2021 at 22:52 #544976
Consciousness Confessions of a Romantic Reductionist by Christof Koch.
Maw June 01, 2021 at 02:49 #545034
The Pristine Culture of Capitalism by Ellen Meiksins Wood
Pierre-Normand June 02, 2021 at 03:41 #545575
Quoting 180 Proof
• Helgoland, Carlo Rovelli


Great, I was looking forward for this to come out in English! I will read it in short order.
Wayfarer June 03, 2021 at 04:25 #546009
After posting excerpts from it for years, I finally bought Philosophy as a Way of Life, Pierre Hadot., in hard copy. So far, exceeds expectations.

Also Nature Loves to Hide, an exposition of philosophy of physics by Shimon Malin.
Snakes Alive June 04, 2021 at 07:29 #546411
Benjamin Madley – An American Genocide: The United States and the California Indian Catastrophe, 1846-1873
Brendan Lindsay – Murder State: California's Native American Genocide, 1846-1873
Exterminate Them!: Written Accounts of Murder, Rape and Enslavement of Native Americans during the California Gold Rush
Randall Milliken – A Time of Little Choice: The Disintegration of Tribal Culture in the San Fransisco Bay Area, 1769-1810
Damon Akins – We Are the Land: A History of Native California
Maw June 04, 2021 at 22:35 #546637
Democracy Against Capitalism by Ellen Meiksins Wood
Streetlight June 05, 2021 at 00:48 #546690
Reply to Maw This is one my favourite after Origin. The first essay is *chefs kiss*.
Maw June 05, 2021 at 00:51 #546691
Quoting StreetlightX
This is one my favourite after Origins. The first essay is *chefs kiss*.


Yes, the first essay was excellent, read it earlier this afternoon. Did you read Pristine Culture? I didn't really enjoy it. Perhaps in part from having read How the West Came To Rule, I found it too myopic and boring.
Streetlight June 05, 2021 at 01:13 #546695
Reply to Maw Yeah Pristine Culture was so-so. I liked just how sharply it drew the lines between France and England, but yeah, after the globe-trotting of HTWCTR it definately comes off as limited.
_db June 06, 2021 at 00:55 #546965
The Consolation of Philosophy, Boethius.
Wayfarer June 07, 2021 at 09:49 #547368
180 Proof June 07, 2021 at 12:19 #547403
Reply to Wayfarer :yikes: Seems like overkill, but, if you're inclined, drop a brief synopsis of your impressions when you're done.
Pantagruel June 08, 2021 at 09:55 #547797
The Human Condition by Hannah Arendt
_db June 11, 2021 at 02:21 #548861
The Meaning of the City, Jacques Ellul
theUnexaminedMind June 11, 2021 at 02:47 #548869
Currently reading Jordan Peterson's 12 Rules for Life.
_db June 11, 2021 at 17:25 #549069
Quoting 180 Proof
It Can't Happen Here, Sinclair Lewis


Just finished this, thanks for the recommendation. What a fantastic read.
Maw June 11, 2021 at 18:48 #549102
Studies On Pre-Capitalist Modes of Production edited by Andrea Zingarelli and Laura da Graca
Manuel June 11, 2021 at 22:26 #549166
The Nature of the Physical World by Arthur Eddington
The Aosawa Murders by Riku Onda

I know they may not be as urgent, but I have a feeling that novels are quite important for understanding human beings. Just suggesting to folks to read one a year, if not many more...

Then again my intuition could be bs.
Streetlight June 12, 2021 at 15:11 #549410
Reply to Pantagruel One of my favs. Funnily enough, one of the things I've been getting more critical of as time goes on, even though I love it.

Reply to Maw Tell me more.

--

I finally finished Davidson's How Revolutionary Were The Bourgeois Revolutions - an 800 page weapon and the best thing I've read all year so far. Holy shit it was good. So currently on to:

Theda Skocpol - States and Social Revolutions: A Comparative Analysis of France, Russia, and China
Utsa Patnaik and Sam Moyo - The Agrarian Question in the Neoliberal Era: Primitive Accumulation and the Peasantry [PDF]
Two articles by Neil Davidson, "What Was Neoliberalism?", and "Neoliberalism and the Far Right: A Contradictory Embrace [PDF]".
Maw June 19, 2021 at 22:18 #553560
Quoting StreetlightX
Tell me more.


I've almost finished, it's very interesting; the first 2/3rds provide an analysis of several pre-Capitalist modes of production including the Asiatic mode, the Feudal mode, Peasant mode, Slave mode, etc. their internal dynamics and tensions, and the subsequent development, the relationship to Marxism (the Asiastic mode and Feudal mode in particular), which are transhistorically constructed by looking at specific historical formulations and comparing and contrasting case studies (e.g. the Asiastic mode as it existed in Ancient Egypt, the Peasant and Feudal mode as it develop in early/middle Iceland and Norway, the Slave mode via Rome, South America, Ancient Greece). The last third, which I started today, revolves around structural change in the modes of productions by looking at debates involving economic determinism, superstructure/base, (not unlike Wood's discussion in Democracy Against Capitalism) and the role of religion, kinship, etc. that penetrate and incorporate themselves into ideological justifications for the mode of production they inhabit. It's been interesting to ponder the role of Christianity in Feudalism vs. the role of Christianity in modern Capitalism. Last chapter, which I am very much looking forward to reading, seems to be about the value theory as it applies to late Feudalism.
Mikie June 20, 2021 at 22:55 #554309
The Sickness is the System
Richard Wolff

Little (paraphrased) excerpt on workplace alternatives I think is worth sharing:

“I want to extend democracy to include the workplace because I believe it should never have been excluded from it. I find it bizarre that in a country that makes a big deal of its commitment to democracy that it never applied that so-called value to the workplace. You know, the workplace is where most adults spend most of their time. Nine to five, five out of seven days a week, in most parts of the world — the best hours of the day you’re working, many more hours you’re recuperating from it or getting ready for it. This is a very crucial part of your life — and a democratic society really doesn’t deserve the label if it excludes the workplace from the democratic commitments that it articulates.”
Pantagruel June 21, 2021 at 11:43 #554489
Gargantua and Pantagruel by Rabelais
_db June 22, 2021 at 21:45 #555151
Two radfem classics:

Intercourse, Andrea Dworkin
SCUM Manifesto, Valerie Solanas
Maw June 27, 2021 at 20:09 #557618
What Hath God Wrought: The Transformation of America, 1815–1848 by historian Daniel Walker Howe
Leghorn June 30, 2021 at 00:59 #558857
The Education of Henry Adams, autobiography of same. Just read first three chapters tonight (1838-1854). Very eye-opening, illuminating recollection of member of one of America’s first ruling families on his upbringing in Boston, his attitude toward school, early literary influences, opinions about American culture, politics, visit to Washington to meet President Taylor, whose horse was pasturing on the White House lawn, before there was a District of Columbia, etc.
Manuel June 30, 2021 at 02:11 #558901
Rereading:

A Treatise Concerning Eternal and Immutable Morality by Ralph Cudworth

Reading:

Essays on the Intellectual Powers of Man by Thomas Reid
Lady Joker Volume I by Karou Takamura
Pantagruel June 30, 2021 at 10:25 #559030
On Individuality and Social Forms by Georg Simmel

Arendt was excellent, albeit a dense read. More concept-driven than thesis-oriented, which suits me well.

Streetlight July 01, 2021 at 12:32 #559674
Charles Tilly - Coercion, Capital, and European States, A.D. 990-1992

Reply to Maw :up:
Snakes Alive July 01, 2021 at 20:16 #559876
Robert Aquinas McNally – The Modoc War: A Story of Genocide at the Dawn of America's Gilded Age
Peter Guardino – The Dead March: A History of the Mexican-American War
William T. Vollman – The Dying Grass: A Novel of the Nez Perce War
_db July 01, 2021 at 23:06 #559923
Don't Be Evil: The Case Against Big Tech, Rana Foroohar
Protagoras July 02, 2021 at 11:30 #560154
Freud;
1) new introductory lectures on psychoanalysis.
2) totem and taboo.
3) moses and monotheism.

With these three books one has good ammunition and a great insight into the mindset of propagandists on the left and right,religious or secular.

Freuds nephew Edward bernays made a career disseminating capitalist and consumerist propoganda by mastering the principles of his uncles work.

Counter the evil of capitalism and communism!
Know thy enemy!
Protagoras July 07, 2021 at 04:49 #562447
Finished " the future of an illusion".

Boy freud is an angry atheist in this one! Reminds me of some posters here.

He admits at one point that secularism could be an illusion just like religion. Then backtracks and rants about reason being the "god" of science and the way to truth.

He's more self aware than most secularists and a clear writer but still,when under pressure retreats to the opium of science and propoganda.

"Next up, "Civilsation and its discontents" by freud,and a whole stack of freud books in the post.

Then Edward bernays with "crystallising opinion" and "Propoganda".

And Washed down with chomsky on "manufacturing consent",and the cigar is Austins "How to do things with words". About speech acts and language.

Remember words are actions and desires!




javi2541997 July 08, 2021 at 09:58 #563168
Currently reading: Los contrabandistas vascos by Pío Baroja.

Plan to read:

Theories of ethics by Philippa Foot.
The rain lasts eleven years by Yong-Tae Min (Poems).
España invertebrada by Ortega y Gasset.
180 Proof July 08, 2021 at 10:11 #563176
Reply to javi2541997 :up: Ortega y Gassett, along with Albert Camus & James Baldwin, was one my earliest intellectual influences. :death: :flower:
Corvus July 08, 2021 at 10:13 #563179
Quoting javi2541997
The rain lasts eleven years by Yong-Tae Min (Poems).


The name sounds like Korean. A Korean poet?
javi2541997 July 08, 2021 at 10:37 #563187
Quoting Corvus
The name sounds like Korean. A Korean poet?


Exactly, it is Korean but surprisingly, this book was written in Spanish because back in the day Yong-Tae Min was a philologist teacher in Madrid.
javi2541997 July 08, 2021 at 10:39 #563191
Quoting 180 Proof
Ortega y Gassett, along with Albert Camus & James Baldwin, was one my earliest intellectual influences. :death:


Agreed. Ortega y Gasset is a very special thinker. I am Spanish as him and somehow I feel the same impotences in terms of culture and the decadence of our homeland...
Corvus July 08, 2021 at 10:41 #563194
Quoting javi2541997
Exactly, it is Korean but surprisingly, this book was written in Spanish because back in the day Yong-Tae Min was a philologist teacher in Madrid.


Wow, a Korean Philology teacher in Madrid, and wrote poetry in Spanish? Sounds interesting.
javi2541997 July 08, 2021 at 11:08 #563202
Quoting Corvus
Wow, a Korean Philology teacher in Madrid, and wrote poetry in Spanish? Sounds interesting.


He also translated Don Quixote to Korean. What an intellectual man!
Corvus July 08, 2021 at 11:11 #563204
Quoting javi2541997
He also translated Don Quixote to Korean. What an intellectual man!


Sure. Please enjoy your readings. Thank you for sharing. :up: :pray: :smile:
Snakes Alive July 09, 2021 at 19:56 #564070
Soon to start reading:

Andrew Isenburg – Mining California: An Ecological History
Louis Warren – God's Red Son: The Ghost Dance Religion and the Making of Modern America
Robert Righter – The Battle over Hetch Hetchy: America's Most Controversial Dam and the Birth of Modern Environmentalism
Anton Treuer – The Indian Wars: Battles, Bloodshed, and the Fight for Freedom on the American Frontier
Kevin Starr – California: A History
frank July 10, 2021 at 16:57 #564458
Nietzsche's TSZ
Maw July 11, 2021 at 19:43 #565105
Haymarket Books 40% off
_db July 11, 2021 at 21:22 #565198
Death on the Installment Plan, Céline
Streetlight July 15, 2021 at 13:16 #567460
Hendrik Spruyt - The Sovereign State and Its Competitors: An Analysis of System Change
Pantagruel July 16, 2021 at 09:25 #567925
Quoting Protagoras
"Next up, "Civilsation and its discontents" by freud,and a whole stack of freud books in the post.


One of my favourites.
Manuel July 17, 2021 at 21:44 #568749
Stubborn Fact and Creative Advance by Thomas E. Hosinski

By far the best book I've read on Whitehead, finally I can begin to make some progress here.
Juliet July 18, 2021 at 02:40 #568846
John Dewey - How We Think
Iris Murdoch - The Sea, The Sea
Friedrich Nietzsche - Thus Spoke Zarathustra
Maxim Gorky - Creatures That Once Were Men
Mirra Ginsburg - The Ultimate Threshold: A Collection of the Finest in Soviet Science Fiction
Pantagruel July 22, 2021 at 11:13 #570418
Simmel definitely had his ups and downs, but overall very stimulating.

Next up, for a larf, Yuval Noah Harari's history and prophecy of humanity:
Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind
and
Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow
Snakes Alive July 24, 2021 at 05:17 #571069
Soon to start reading, after the last batch is done:

John Fante – Ask the Dust
Jack London – Martin Eden
Frank Norris – The Octopus: A Story of California
Josiah Royce – The Religious Aspect of Philosophy: A Critique of the Bases and Conduct of Faith
Maw July 25, 2021 at 22:38 #571882
Marx's Capital and Hegel's Logic: A Reexamination edited by Fred Moseley and Tony Smith
Manuel July 26, 2021 at 03:37 #571946
Just to comment, I bought Rovelli's Helgoland on a whim and I read it in a day, though it's not long to be fair.

What a wonderful book. I very much like his interpretation of QM and the way he thinks about all the complications associated with it, the book has very much a philosophical flavor. Not that I agree with him on all points, but highly recommend it for people interested in the topic: quite easy to read and understand. Simply great stuff.
Streetlight July 26, 2021 at 03:49 #571948
Reply to Pantagruel I actually want to read these because people ask me about them all the time and I have nothing to say lol.
Pantagruel July 26, 2021 at 09:32 #572005
Reply to StreetlightX A lot of speculative inference, but so far hangs together, and seems plausible.
180 Proof July 27, 2021 at 20:00 #572480
July-August readings:

A Quantum Life, Hakeem M. Olesuyi

still reading:

• Holes and Other Superficialities, R. Casati & A.C. Varzi

re-reading:

Helgoland, Carlo Rovelli
Snakes Alive July 27, 2021 at 22:59 #572555
Some more stuff on the way:

Leonard Pitt – The Decline of the Californios: A Social History of the Spanish-Speaking Californians, 1846-1890
Gregory Nokes – The Troubled Life of Peter Burnett: Oregon Pioneer and First Governor of California
John Rollin Ridge – The Life and Adventures of Joquín Murieta
Nathanael West – The Day of the Locust
Neal Harlow – California Conquered: The Annexation of a Mexican Province, 1846-1850
Streetlight July 30, 2021 at 12:29 #573390
James C. Scott - Against The Grain: A Deep History of the Earliest States
James C. Scott - Seeing Like A State: How Certain Schemes to Improve the Human Condition Have Failed

@darthbarracuda I remember you reading the first - how did you find it?

Reply to Pantagruel :up:
javi2541997 July 30, 2021 at 14:20 #573415
A confederacy of dunces by John Kennedy Toole.
Essay about the Greeks by Friedrich Nietzsche.
_db July 30, 2021 at 16:14 #573443
Reply to StreetlightX Against the Grain was great, I couldn't stop reading it. I've also read part of Seeing Like A State, though that required more commitment than I was able to give at the time.
Streetlight July 30, 2021 at 17:59 #573466
Quoting darthbarracuda
I couldn't stop reading it.


I'm just past the first chapter and it's absolutely absorbing. He writes with such momentum!
praxis July 30, 2021 at 19:07 #573487
Against the Grain was eye opening.

In the middle of The Other Black Girl by Zakiya Dalila Harris. :up:
Maw July 30, 2021 at 22:27 #573547
Started and finished Sir Gawain and the Green Knight today and just got back from the movie
Pantagruel July 31, 2021 at 11:35 #573698
The Eustace Diamonds by Anthony Trollope
Down The Rabbit Hole July 31, 2021 at 13:09 #573714
Cycles of Time - Sir Roger Penrose
Pantagruel August 02, 2021 at 14:03 #574489
Homo Deus by Yuval Noah Harari
Cheshire August 09, 2021 at 15:20 #577885
Conjectures and Refutations by Karl Popper Audiobook Free
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcDyPH8nTJ4

Karl Popper's attempt to make philosophy useful by clearing up some old debates in a non-dogmatic framework. Read by Elyse Hargreaves with permission from the Popper library.
javi2541997 August 09, 2021 at 15:37 #577891
Quoting Cheshire
Karl Popper


I love this man so much. It was a true philosopher of science and a good person. Before he passed away at the age of 92, he was still answering all the letters to his disciples. Incredible.
Cheshire August 09, 2021 at 15:46 #577892
Reply to javi2541997 He's been life long guide. I wouldn't be on a philosophy website without Popper. Insists on things making sense; it's refreshing.
Cuthbert August 09, 2021 at 15:50 #577893
The Ambassadors by Henry James

It is one of the funniest books I have ever read. James recommended reading it slowly, perhaps five pages at a time. I sometimes manage only five sentences at a sitting, which may amount to the same thing. When a character meets his friends arriving by train it takes one chapter to get them out of the station. Even then we have to go back to pick up some observations we might have missed. You go to a party and after three or four pages you have just about got across the lawn and sighted some of the guests through the window. Each sentence is a journey and you often arrive holding onto unfamiliar luggage, having unaccountably lost your passport, your return ticket and your left shoe.
thewonder August 09, 2021 at 18:26 #577945
On the Heights of Despair by Emil Cioran

It's exactly like what you'd expect for it to be like.
Maw August 09, 2021 at 20:31 #577979
How Revolutionary Were the Bourgeois Revolutions? by Neil Davidson

looking forward to this one given @StreetlightX's glowing review
Streetlight August 10, 2021 at 03:59 #578141
Reply to Maw :cheer:

I keep coming back to that one, over and over.
180 Proof August 10, 2021 at 07:23 #578191
re-reading:

The Number Sense, Stanislas Dehaene


javi2541997 August 10, 2021 at 07:33 #578194
After virtue: a study in moral theory. by Alasdair Macintyre.

Plan to read:
Los desamoramientos by Javier Marías.
Oh, what a paradise it seems by John Cheever.
Down The Rabbit Hole August 10, 2021 at 15:03 #578280
There Is a God by Antony Flew
Noble Dust August 11, 2021 at 05:36 #578519
Hard-boiled Wonderland And The End Of The Word - Haruki Murakami
javi2541997 August 11, 2021 at 05:54 #578521
Quoting Noble Dust
Hard-boiled Wonderland And The End Of The Word - Haruki Murakami


Excellent book! One of my favorites from Murakami.
Noble Dust August 11, 2021 at 06:03 #578522
Reply to javi2541997

My intro. Looking good so far.
Pantagruel August 12, 2021 at 10:19 #578880
Descriptive Psychology by Franz Brentano
Streetlight August 13, 2021 at 07:14 #579239
Marshall Sahlins - Stone Age Economics
Marshall Sahlins - Islands of History

...continuing my anthropology kick.
_db August 13, 2021 at 23:03 #579468
Reply to StreetlightX How did you find Against the Grain?
Pantagruel August 14, 2021 at 12:54 #579643
The Epic of Gilgamesh - the most ancient recorded story

For anyone who enjoys Dickens or Victorian literature or just a good fiction, The Eustace Diamonds is quite a gem. I could not put it down.
Streetlight August 14, 2021 at 13:44 #579650
Reply to darthbarracuda It was fantastic. I love how so many of the book's 'protagonists' were not human - fire, waterways, rats, plagues, walls, food etc. It really puts nature front and center of politics in a way that I often take too for granted. He's also a very engaging writer in general.
Manuel August 15, 2021 at 01:31 #579828
Rereading:

Inborn Knowledge: The Mystery Within by Colin McGinn

Not much philosophical literature on innateness, unless it's technical linguistic related matters. Great book.

Reading:

The Last House of Needless Street by Catriona Ward
Mikie August 15, 2021 at 03:42 #579860
A History of America in Ten Strikes

Erik Loomis


Quoting Pantagruel
The Epic of Gilgamesh - the most ancient recorded story


And an awesome story, too. Should be required reading.

_db August 17, 2021 at 02:40 #580747
Got nagged into joining a reading group at my work, a few months back we started Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari.

The book is a steaming pile of shit, I do not recommend it at all. Save your time, most of it is just atrocious.
javi2541997 August 17, 2021 at 04:02 #580760
Quoting darthbarracuda
The book is a steaming pile of shit, I do not recommend it at all. Save your time, most of it is just atrocious.


Finally I found someone that thinks like me about that stupid ass book! Thank you. I remember getting tired before the page 100...
180 Proof August 17, 2021 at 10:56 #580839
frank August 17, 2021 at 18:57 #580960
A Promised Land
Barack Obama
found it at a used book store
Down The Rabbit Hole August 18, 2021 at 11:53 #581244
Philosophical Perspectives on Infinity by Graham Oppy
javi2541997 August 18, 2021 at 15:43 #581311
Prepare to read:

The warrior of the Tiger skin. by Rustaveli.
This is a collection of epic poems from Georgia (most of them in Tbilisi) where Christianism, Muslim, and Hinduism are influenced. All these poems were written between XII and XIIIth century.

Note: If you are interested in this book, be careful and search it also as "panther warrior" because for some authors Rustaveli referred about this epic animal not the tiger.
The poem is composed by 1487 quatrains.
Pantagruel August 19, 2021 at 11:33 #581614
The Idea of Nature by R.G. Collingwood

Looks "phenomenal"..... :)
frank August 20, 2021 at 01:35 #581896
In the Ruins of Neoliberalism: The rise of antidemocratic politics in the West.

Wendy Brown
Corvus August 20, 2021 at 13:03 #581989
Quoting Pantagruel
The Idea of Nature by R.G. Collingwood

Looks "phenomenal".....


Got the same book. Looks an interesting book well written.
If you start a reading group with it, will follow.
Corvus August 20, 2021 at 13:05 #581990
The Critique of Pure Reason by I. Kant

I have the Guyer, NKS and Max Muller translation version.
I prefer the MM version best for clarity of the translation. Cross referencing between the 3 translations will render flexibility.
_db August 20, 2021 at 13:11 #581991
Corvus August 20, 2021 at 13:13 #581993
Reply to darthbarracuda Will follow your reading group. :)
180 Proof August 20, 2021 at 19:33 #582120
re-reading

Philosophy in the Flesh, George Lakoff & Mark Johnson
The Body in Pain, Elaine Scarry
Illness as Metaphor, Susan Sontag
Deleted User August 20, 2021 at 19:36 #582121
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
Pantagruel August 20, 2021 at 20:33 #582141
Quoting tim wood
My copy, as I type, even closer than my coffee-cup


:up:
hypericin August 21, 2021 at 01:33 #582273
"The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" C.S Lewis
Jamal August 25, 2021 at 06:57 #584210
Something philosophical for the first time in ages:

Amartya Sen, Identity and Violence: The Illusion of Destiny
Kwame Anthony Appiah, Cosmopolitanism: Ethics in a World of Strangers
Corvus August 25, 2021 at 16:46 #584487
Just picked up a copy of "Naming and Necessity" by Kripke.
Pantagruel August 27, 2021 at 12:20 #585441
The Complete Essays of Michel De Montaigne

this is going to take a while, studying the nature of human thought through self-exposition...
Pantagruel August 27, 2021 at 12:21 #585442
Reply to Corvus Nice, me too. :up:
Seppo August 27, 2021 at 17:05 #585538
Reply to Down The Rabbit Hole

How was that? Penrose is a treasure, and his CCC is super interesting. Guy is just a machine (90 years old now!!!)
Prishon August 27, 2021 at 17:11 #585541
Reply to Seppo

See there are more comprising theories? But that machine is a crackpot. no?
Seppo August 27, 2021 at 17:26 #585546
Reply to Prishon now you're comparing yourself to Roger Penrose? :lol:

maximum crackpot level achieved!
Prishon August 27, 2021 at 17:29 #585548
Reply to Seppo

No. He's wrong. Hyper jackpot!
Seppo August 27, 2021 at 17:37 #585553
Reply to Prishon

Maybe. Probably. Still interesting, and its not like you have any clue either way, so why pretend?
Prishon August 27, 2021 at 17:41 #585557
Quoting Seppo
Maybe. Probably. Still interesting, and its not like you have any clue either way, so why pretend?


Why should I have no clue? Why do you think I pretend? How can it be interesting when wrong? Anyhow, this is a book part. I have started the wrong discussion but you tossed up Penrose. His tiles are amusing though.
Prishon August 27, 2021 at 17:48 #585560
Ryder. Quantum Field Theory. Good for falling asleep easily.

Feyerabend-Science in a Free Society.
Down The Rabbit Hole August 27, 2021 at 21:21 #585615
Reply to Seppo

Went way over my head, especially with all the math.

I remember seeing reviews on Amazon before someone got me the book, from professors etc, saying the same thing.
Seppo August 27, 2021 at 22:07 #585634
Reply to Down The Rabbit Hole How about the Oppy one on infinity?
Corvus August 27, 2021 at 23:10 #585662
Quoting Pantagruel
Nice, me too. :up:


This book cries out for reading group.
Down The Rabbit Hole August 28, 2021 at 09:09 #585871
Reply to Seppo

Quoting Seppo
How about the Oppy one on infinity?


I thought that would be the hardest read, but it's pretty understandable if you slow down and take your time with it. I'm at page 100, having a break from it to do other things.

A lot of the classical actual infinity thought experiments he has answers for, but for those he doesn't he asserts that just because certain actual infinity thought experiments are impossible, it doesn't mean actual infinities are impossible. He points out that even finite scenarios can be impossible.
Pantagruel August 28, 2021 at 10:45 #585885
Quoting Corvus
This book cries out for reading group.


Yes, that's probably true, it looks....dense.
Heracloitus August 28, 2021 at 12:27 #585906
Seppo August 28, 2021 at 14:37 #585933
Reply to Down The Rabbit Hole

yeah he's written quite a few fantastic responses to various parts of the causal/cosmological argument, and in particular he had one of the best arguments RE infinite/eternal past that I've seen, so I'd be super interested in that book. May have to check it out on Kindle here.
Corvus August 28, 2021 at 15:48 #585946
Quoting emancipate
Et voilà


There had been a huge RG for the book already.
But it looks like it had been closed.
Wonder if it would be good idea to open a new one.
_db August 28, 2021 at 19:18 #586009
Finished Death on the Installment Plan by Louis-Ferdinand Céline.

Started The Tunnel by William H. Gass.
_db August 31, 2021 at 20:09 #587635
The Afghanistan Papers, Craig Whitlock
javi2541997 September 01, 2021 at 12:47 #587964
Fear and trembling by Søren Kierkegaard.
180 Proof September 05, 2021 at 23:35 #589656
September readings:

Classical Indian Philosophy, P. Adamson & J. Ganeri
Razorblade Tears: A Novel, S.A. Cosby
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/05/books/s-a-cosby-razorblade-tears-crime-novelist.html
Agon, J. Harper & S. Nittner (ttrpg)
Exterminate All The Brutes, Sven Lindqvist
javi2541997 September 06, 2021 at 04:30 #589752
Quoting 180 Proof
Classical Indian Philosophy, P. Adamson & J. Ganeri


So interesting indeed :up: :flower: it is important to look into Asian philosophy sometimes.
180 Proof September 13, 2021 at 05:25 #593552
September re-readings

In honor of Stanislaw Lem's 100th:
A Perfect Vacuum
His Master's Voice
The Investigation
Solaris
Summa Technologiae
Streetlight September 13, 2021 at 13:38 #593759
Arundhati Roy - The Cost of Living
Arundhati Roy - The Chequebook and the Cruise Missile
Hito Steyerl - The Wretched of the Screen
Olivier5 September 13, 2021 at 13:45 #593765
Pantagruel September 13, 2021 at 17:40 #593910
Science and the Modern World by Alfred North Whitehead
Deleted User September 16, 2021 at 03:50 #595645
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
_db September 16, 2021 at 03:56 #595652
Neuromancer, William Gibson
Olivier5 September 16, 2021 at 14:26 #595861
Quoting tim wood
I like Luc Ferry


He served as the Minister of Education under Sarkozy's presidency. I found him by and large ok, a bit old style.
Ambrosia September 16, 2021 at 14:45 #595876
Dead souls. Nikolai gogol.
Brother karazamov. Fyodor dostoevsky.
Through the looking glass. Lewis carroll.
Problems of dostoevskys poetics. Mikhail bhaktin.

Bhaktin is a philosopher whose work on Language is far far better than any of the famous philosophers or linguists.
You could solve all the pseudo epistemological and ontological problems with his dialogical concept.
Srap Tasmaner September 16, 2021 at 15:11 #595896
Reply to darthbarracuda I read it when it came out, listening to Sonic Youth on cassette. Ah, cyberpunk days...
Corvus September 17, 2021 at 00:46 #596128
New Essays on The A Priori - Boghossian and Peacocke
Does God Exist? - A. E. Taylor

Maw September 17, 2021 at 21:05 #596583
The Jakarta Method: Washington's Anticommunist Crusade and the Mass Murder Program that Shaped Our World by Vincent Bevins.
_db September 17, 2021 at 22:50 #596642
Reply to Srap Tasmaner The book is wild, loving it.
Cabbage Farmer September 22, 2021 at 18:20 #598941
Timothy Snyder, The Road to Unfreedom
Streetlight September 23, 2021 at 10:49 #599250
Leigh Phillips and Michal Rozworski - People's Republic of Walmart: How the World's Biggest Corporations are Laying the Foundation for Socialism
Charles W. Mills - The Racial Contract (@180 Proof, he passed away this week :sad: )
Jon Roffe - Abstract Market Theory
180 Proof September 23, 2021 at 12:54 #599287
@Maw Quoting StreetlightX
Charles W. Mills - The Racial Contract (@180 Proof, he passed away this week :sad: )

I'd meant to meet him on one of my next visits to NYC through a friend who happened to have been Mill's student decades ago – the pandemic has delayed my travels, and now he's gone. Thanks for letting me know. Excellent read. In his honor I'll soon start on

Blackness Visible: Essays on Philosophy and Race

I've had the book for some time, a follow-up to The Racial Contract, which is long overdue for study. Coincidently, I've been reading Exterminate All The Brutes by Sven Lindqvist which I very much recommend as sort of a massive 'historical case study' of Mills' thesis.
Maw September 23, 2021 at 23:02 #599591
That's very sad to hear, he was quite young to pass too, I very much enjoyed Black Rights/White Wrongs: The Critique of Racial Liberalism several years back
Streetlight September 24, 2021 at 09:15 #599790
"Within these racial polities, the Racial Contract manifests itself in white resistance to anything more than the formal extension of the terms of the abstract social contract (and often to that also). Whereas before it was denied that non-whites were equal persons, it is now pretended that non-whites are equal abstract persons who can be fully included in the polity merely by extending the scope of the moral operator, without any fundamental change in the arrangements that have resulted from the previous system of explicit de jure racial privilege.

...Nonwhites then find that race is, paradoxically, both everywhere and nowhere, structuring their lives but not formally recognized in political/moral theory. But in a racially structured polity, the only people who can find it psychologically possible to deny the centrality of race are those who are racially privileged, or whom race is invisible precisely because the world is structured around them, whiteness as the ground against which the figures of other races those who, unlike us, are raced-appear. The fish does not see the water, and whites do not see the racial nature of a white polity because it is natural to them, the element in which they move. As Toni Morrison points out, there are contexts in which claiming racelessness is itself a racial act".

Gosh it's like the debates haven't changed changed for two and a half decades.
180 Proof September 24, 2021 at 10:11 #599811
Reply to StreetlightX This is why James Baldwin's almost six decades old essays are still, perhaps even more, relevant in America today.
Streetlight September 24, 2021 at 10:17 #599813
Reply to 180 Proof I was just thinking I need to read some Baldwin after this!
180 Proof September 24, 2021 at 10:29 #599818
Reply to StreetlightX



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B99wZK39VTQ
(a film review + some background)
Streetlight September 24, 2021 at 10:36 #599819
Reply to 180 Proof I've seen it. Really fantastic.
180 Proof September 24, 2021 at 10:43 #599822
Reply to StreetlightX :cool: JB's essays are even more intense yet crystal clear.
180 Proof September 25, 2021 at 01:02 #600080
@Maw @StreetlightX

Charles W. Mills 1951-2021
https://www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/the-house-that-charles-built
Streetlight September 25, 2021 at 05:56 #600157
Reply to 180 Proof Having just finished the book, it's like a retrospective embarrassment to me that I haven't come to it sooner - that it took his death to kick my butt to read. I mean -

"By recognizing it as a political system, the "Racial Contract" voluntarizes race in the same way that the social contract voluntarizes the creation of society and the state. It distinguishes between whiteness as phenotype/genealogy and Whiteness as a political commitment to white supremacy, thus making conceptual room for "white renegades" and "race traitors." ... Correspondingly, the "Racial Contract" demystifies the uniqueness of white racism (for those who, understandably, see Europeans as intrinsically White) by locating it as the contingent outcome of a particular set of circumstances ... In a sense, the "Racial Contract" decolorizes Whiteness by detaching it from whiteness, thereby demonstrating that in a parallel universe it could have been Yellowness, Redness, Brownness, or Blackness. Or, alternatively phrased, we could have had a yellow, red, brown, or black Whiteness: Whiteness is not really a color at all, but a set of power relations."

Absolutely killer. The dissent article is a fitting tribute.
180 Proof September 25, 2021 at 07:24 #600181
Quoting StreetlightX
"[ ... ] Whiteness is not really a color at all, but a set of power relations." ~C.W. Mills

:fire:
_db September 25, 2021 at 20:22 #600436
Castle to Castle, Céline.
The Murder of Professor Schlick: the Rise and Fall of the Vienna Circle, David Edmonds.
Maw September 26, 2021 at 04:04 #600573
Baron Wenckheim's Homecoming by László Krasznahorkai
Corvus September 26, 2021 at 20:05 #600784
Particle Metaphysics - A Critical Account of Subatomic Reality by Brigitte Falkenburg
Jamal September 27, 2021 at 09:39 #601076
Quoting javi2541997
I also like Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World and 1Q84


[SPOILERS]

I just read 1Q84 and after the first book of the three, which was compelling and fascinating, it seemed to just fall flat, dominated by (a) mundane activities--which can be described interestingly in fiction but not here--and (b) the dull, bloodless thoughts of the main characters, especially Tengo. I can happily live with a main/point-of-view character who is evil or contradictory (or breast-fixated), but not with a boring one. He's the most boring fictional main character I can remember. In the third book, no sooner does the increasingly likeable and interesting Ushikawa begin to liven things up than he gets caught by Fuka-Eri's gaze and becomes as boring as the others, just before getting killed off.

It was my first Murukami and I've seen people say it shouldn't be the first one you read. And it has indeed put me off reading more.

Currently reading and reading soon:

  • The Gormenghast trilogy by Mervyn Peake. I've read it every ten years or so since I was a teenager and it seems to get better each time.
  • Dancers at the End of Time by Michael Moorcock, another re-read.
  • Dune by Frank Herbert. Abandoned it after a few pages a few times for whatever reason, but I've just seen the movie and fancy reading it now.
  • The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe. I read this supposed classic (UKLG called Wolfe "our Melville" because of it) a long time ago and took its uneven narrative and confusing world-building to be clumsy incompetent writing, but I'm going to give it another go.
  • Don Quixote by Miguel de Cervantes. Now that I'm the same age as the character, it's time for a re-read.
  • Black Spartacus by Sudhir Hazareesingh. So far the only book on Toussaint Louverture I've read is the brilliant classic The Black Jacobins by C.L.R. James.
  • The Volga: A History by Janet Hartley. I've just been on a cruise down the Volga, all the way to the Caspian, and I always for some reason do my research after I get back from my travels.


I also want to try those big difficult American classics, Infinite Jest and Gravity's Rainbow. Until now, just as the thought of being stuck in an upper class manners-infested house for a whole book has put me off Jane Austen, so getting bogged down in anything to do with tennis has put me off Infinite Jest. Maybe it's because I myself was a promising tennis athlete for a short time in my adolescence, before throwing it all away.
180 Proof September 27, 2021 at 17:32 #601198
October reading

The Nature of Middle-Earth by J.R.R. Tolkien, ed. Carl F. Hostetter

Quoting jamalrob
Currently reading and reading soon:

• The Gormenghast trilogy by Mervyn Peake. I've read it every ten years or so since I was a teenager and it seems to get better each time.
• Dancers at the End of Time by Michael Moorcock, another re-read.
• Dune by Frank Herbert. Abandoned it after a few pages a few times for whatever reason, but I've just seen the movie and fancy reading it now.
• The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe. I read this supposed classic (UKLG called Wolfe "our Melville" because of it) a long time ago and took its uneven narrative and confusing world-building to be clumsy incompetent writing, but I'm going to give it another go.
• Don Quixote by Miguel de Cervantes. Now that I'm the same age as the character, it's time for a re-read.
• Black Spartacus by Sudhir Hazareesingh. So far the only book on Toussaint Louverture I've read is the brilliant classic The Black Jacobins by C.L.R. James.

Brilliant! :up:

I'm really looking forward to Dune when it opens here in the US next month. At IMAX (matinee if possible). I've never ventured past Titus Groan, so maybe I'll give Peake's trilogy another chance. What do you think of Moorcock's Gloriana with its deliberately Gormenghast-like 'mood'? Btw, reading Gene Wolfe rewards patience.
Jamal September 27, 2021 at 19:11 #601229
Quoting 180 Proof
I've never ventured past Titus Groan, so maybe I'll give Peake's trilogy another chance.


I definitely recommend the second one, Gormenghast, but the third is non-essential and really not of a piece with the first two. But it's fascinatingly odd.

Quoting 180 Proof
What do you think of Moorcock's Gloriana with its deliberately Gormenghast-like 'mood'?


I abandoned it when I tried reading it in my adolescence but I'd be interested to try again. But although Moorcock loved Peake, I don't think he's the same kind of writer at all, so I don't know how he'd succeed with that kind of thing. I could be wrong about that, because there's a lot of Moorcock I haven't read (I've probably only read his Eternal Champion/Multiverse stories, and less than half of those). What did you think of it?

Quoting 180 Proof
Btw, reading Gene Wolfe rewards patience.


Glad to get some support for my suspicion that he's not just crap after all!

EDIT: btw, I saw Dune in a beautiful "premium" cinema with big chairs and tables and all that, and only four other people there. It was a very good experience, but I'll say no more.
180 Proof September 27, 2021 at 19:45 #601242
Quoting jamalrob
(I've probably only read his Eternal Champion/Multiverse stories, and less than half of those). What did you think of it?

I first read Moorcock back in the late '70s – The Eternal Champion-Silver Warriors duology and Elric stories mostly, later Behold the Man, von Bek stories and "sampled" quite a few other of his novels. I really fell for Moorcock's pulpish weird fantasy (i.e. sword & sorcery), especially Elric and the Multiverse back in the day (which, along with Conan stories and Lord of the Rings-The Silmarillion, lead me to running & designing tabletop roleplaying games through the mid-80s). Foundational stuff for me. Also, Ursula LeGuin, Poul Anderson, "Cthulhu Mythos" stories, Gene Wolfe, Charles Saunders (Imaro) ... Frank Herbert, et al.

I definitely recommend the second one, Gormenghast ...

:up:
Manuel September 27, 2021 at 19:54 #601248
Ducks, Newsburyport by Lucy Ellmann

Fundamentals: Ten Keys to Reality by Frank Wilczek
Jamal September 28, 2021 at 00:20 #601354
Quoting 180 Proof
I first read Moorcock back in the late '70s – The Eternal Champion-Silver Warriors duology and Elric stories mostly, later Behold the Man, von Bek stories and "sampled" quite a few other of his novels. I really fell for Moorcock's pulpish weird fantasy (i.e. sword & sorcery), especially Elric and the Multiverse back in the day (which, along with Conan stories and Lord of the Rings-The Silmarillion, lead me to running & designing tabletop roleplaying games through the mid-80s). Foundational stuff for me.


:cool:

I was into the Corum and Von Bek stories back in the day. Later on Colonel Pyat.

Quoting 180 Proof
Ursula LeGuin


:up: :up: :up:
Manuel September 28, 2021 at 17:31 #601605
Quoting jamalrob
I also want to try those big difficult American classics, Infinite Jest and Gravity's Rainbow. Until now, just as the thought of being stuck in an upper class manners-infested house for a whole book has put me off Jane Austen, so getting bogged down in anything to do with tennis has put me off Infinite Jest. Maybe it's because I myself was a promising tennis athlete for a short time in my adolescence, before throwing it all away.


It varies. Gravity's Rainbow is quite difficult. You need to be able to withstand not understanding almost anything for 240 pages, then it takes off for a good while. But the last 100-ish pages go back to obscurity. It was quite a feat finishing that. Feels like an accomplishment. But at least most things you read afterward become easy or they cease to intimidate. A unique experience, no doubt about that.

Infinite Jest, on the other hand, is much easier to read and has some creative and fun moments. But the endnotes killed me. Sure, you can skip them if you wish, but then I felt like I was cheating the book. But going back and forth all the time just became a total slog. And I wasn't enjoying it, not because it was hard, but because it was unrewarding despite some nice pages and passages. Stopped at p.400.

But some people swear on this book.
Jamal September 28, 2021 at 18:16 #601618
Reply to Manuel Thank you for sharing your experience. I appreciate it.

There was a time when I went for big difficult books in the way that young men do: to prove to myself and to others that I was a serious intellectual.

These days, it's more like curiosity and exploration. These books stand in the cultural landscape like mountains to be climbed.

The endnotes thing puts me off, I have to say. Friends of mine have raved about Infinite Jest, but I feel more drawn to Gravity's Rainbow. I can handle books I can't understand so long as it seems like the writer knows what he's writing about, and if it looks like it could be interesting. That's when I know I have to go and do some research of my own.
Manuel September 28, 2021 at 18:31 #601627
Reply to jamalrob

There are whole guidebooks for GR. Once it gets going it's crazy: characters appearing left and right, changes in prose from paranoiac to authoritative to funny all in a few pages. You have to be determined to finish the book, at least that's how I read it.

Mason & Dixon, on the other hand, took him something like 25 years to write, to get the language right and the like, it reads beautifully - a total mastery of the English language. But it's also very hard.

IJ is curious. Obviously Wallace could write very well, but I think he was much better in his non-fiction essays by a lot. The end notes did not enhance the experience for me.

Since this is a philosophy forum, you might want to check out Novel Explosives by Jim Gauer, it is amazing. Better than GR, imo. I have to do PR for that book, since you mentioned these two novels. ;)
T Clark September 28, 2021 at 18:39 #601631
Quoting jamalrob
I definitely recommend the second one, Gormenghast, but the third is non-essential and really not of a piece with the first two.


I loved "Titus Groan," but I'm surprised I finished it. Luckily, about a quarter of the way in, something grabbed me by the collar and dragged me the rest of the way through. Really odd, but wonderful. I've been trying to get up the nerve to read "Gormenghast."

Just so you know, there is a rule for books identified as "classics" - you get just as much credit for reading short easy-to-read ones as for the difficult ones. I recommend "Heart of Darkness." Mr. Pynchon, he dead.
Jamal September 28, 2021 at 18:42 #601634
Quoting T Clark
I've been trying to get up the nerve to read "Gormenghast."


Titus Groan is ponderous, if you can imagine that as a positive, but Gormenghast I found somewhat lighter and more comedic, in a Dickensian kind of way.

Quoting T Clark
Really odd, but wonderful.


:up: :100: :cool:
Jamal September 28, 2021 at 18:46 #601636
[quote=Mervyn Peake, Titus Groan]This tower, patched unevenly with black ivy, arose like a mutilated finger from among the fists of knuckled masonry and pointed blasphemously at heaven. At night the owls made of it an echoing throat; by day it stood voiceless and cast its long shadow.[/quote]

This is always quoted, but the thing is: the whole book is like that.
Jamal September 28, 2021 at 18:53 #601640
Quoting Manuel
There are whole guidebooks for GR


I looked at one today, but I approach literature as I do film, knowing as little about it beforehand as possible and certainly avoiding plot spoilers, which this guidebook apparently has.
Manuel September 28, 2021 at 19:50 #601664
Reply to jamalrob

That's the best way to read novels.
180 Proof September 29, 2021 at 06:45 #601807
Quoting Manuel
Mason & Dixon, on the other hand, took him something like 25 years to write, to get the language right and the like, it reads beautifully - a total mastery of the English language. But it's also very hard.

This is the only Pynchon novel I've "withstood" long enough to finish. Enjoyed it though. At the time, I was also reading William Gass' The Tunnel which I very much preferred. Ever read David Markson's "novels"? If not, I highly recommend Wittgenstein's Mistress (and Springer's Progress too). :up:
Manuel September 29, 2021 at 14:25 #601895
Quoting 180 Proof
This is the only Pynchon novel I've "withstood" long enough to finish. Enjoyed it though. At the time, I was also reading William Gass' The Tunnel which I very much preferred. Ever read David Markson's "novels"? If not, I highly recommend Wittgenstein's Mistress (and Springer's Progress too). :up:


I couldn't finish The Tunnel when I first tried. Wasn't in to it back then, am going to have to give it another shot.

Yep, Markson's Wittgenstein's Mistress is great. Will check out Springer's Progress, that I have not seen.

Thanks!
_db October 01, 2021 at 21:35 #602635
[s]American Extremist: The Psychology of Political Extremism, Josh Neal.[/s]

Well, I'm an idiot, that guy's a white supremacist :vomit:

Quoting Manuel
I couldn't finish The Tunnel when I first tried.


Neither could I, it went a bit over my head and felt like a chore to get through. I'll try again some other time.
Manuel October 01, 2021 at 21:46 #602638
Quoting darthbarracuda
Neither could I, it went a bit over my head and felt like a chore to get through. I'll try again some other time.


Yes, these authors tend to produce dense works that require persistence and patience, ideally, it ends up being worth the effort. Depending on the person, it can pay off in spades or it could be garbage. People have both loved and hated Pynchon and Wallace. Same with Gass.

Definitely not the type of book you'd pick up casually.
Pantagruel October 05, 2021 at 10:54 #604081
Adventures of Ideas by Alfred North Whitehead
Streetlight October 06, 2021 at 02:26 #604329
Georges Dumezil - The Destiny of a King
Georges Dumezil - Mitra-Varuna: An Essay on Two Indo-European Representations of Sovereignty
James Baldwin - The Fire Next Time
Kathryn Yusoff - A Billion Black Anthropocenes or None
Number2018 October 06, 2021 at 02:54 #604338
Gilles Deleuze - Foucault
Gilles Deleuze, Felix Guattari - Kafka
_db October 09, 2021 at 16:02 #605351
The Fascism This Time, Theo Horesh.

[s]Also Heart of Darkness, Joseph Conrad.[/s] Cannot read it right now, the copy I got has so many notes on every page that it's impossible to focus on the story.
_db October 11, 2021 at 23:34 #606019
The Drowned World, J. G. Ballard. Holy shit what a novel.
Number2018 October 11, 2021 at 23:46 #606022
Federico Finchelstein - A Brief History of Fascist Lies.
180 Proof October 12, 2021 at 01:17 #606042
Reply to darthbarracuda :up:

The Journal of Albion Moonlight, Kenneth Patchen
The Battlefield Where the Moon Says I Love You, Frank Stanford
Zone One, Colson Whitehead
Tom Storm October 12, 2021 at 01:38 #606046
Coming Through Slaughter Buddy Bolden imagined by Michael Ondaatje
180 Proof October 12, 2021 at 01:46 #606048
Reply to Tom Storm :cool: On my to-be-read list. Please share your thoughts on this one when you're done.
Bret Bernhoft October 12, 2021 at 06:01 #606111
I am reading "Virtually Sacred: Myth And Meaning In World Of Warcraft And Second Life", by Robert M Geraci.
Streetlight October 12, 2021 at 11:40 #606198
Georges Dumezil - The Destiny of the Warrior
Jane Jacobs - The Death and Life of Great American Cities

Quoting Number2018
Federico Finchelstein - A Brief History of Fascist Lies.


How is this?
Number2018 October 12, 2021 at 17:16 #606338
Reply to StreetlightXIt is not bad. Yet, unfortunately, Finchelstein exposes fascist lies on the grounds of a common-sense concept of truth. Instead, if the notion of fascism is still relevant, it is needed to understand why ‘fascist lies’ made sense for so many people.
Maw October 12, 2021 at 23:13 #606450
Bela Tarr, the Time After by Jacques Rancière
_db October 13, 2021 at 02:20 #606500
Inside the Third Reich, Albert Speer.
180 Proof October 13, 2021 at 05:39 #606605
Today on this auspicious 42nd anniversary of its publication, I'm re-reading

Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Adams

:razz:
_db October 14, 2021 at 21:38 #607204
A Clockwork Orange, Anthony Burgess.
Maw October 15, 2021 at 03:32 #607361
Monsters of the Market Zombies, Vampires and Global Capitalism by David McNally
Streetlight October 15, 2021 at 03:43 #607364
Reply to Maw I've heard great things about this! Let me know how you find it. When Verso has their next sale I'm planning to pick up his Against The Market. Did you finish Davidson's How Revolutionary? btw?
Maw October 15, 2021 at 23:40 #607716
Reply to StreetlightX Will do!

Loved loved How Revolutionary. One of my favorite reads of the year. Intellectually dense, and with acerbic wit and confidence that I admire.
Pantagruel October 16, 2021 at 14:33 #608021
Re-reading The Conscious Mind by David Chalmers

I see it has a chapter on naturalistic dualism, which came up in a thread recently and relates to the A.N. Whitehead books I just finished.
Pantagruel October 16, 2021 at 14:42 #608025
Quoting 180 Proof
Today on this auspicious 42nd anniversary of its publication, I'm re-reading

Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Adams

:up:
Love me some Doug Adams.
Photios October 17, 2021 at 00:04 #608153
I finally made time for Kierkegaard, something I have put off for so many years, don't know why...

'A Kierkegaard Anthology' edited by Robert Bretall

I am about 1/3 the way through the anthology, on Fear and Trembling now.

I just felt like popping in and saying WOW - that Dane was on to something! Any S.K. admirers here?


Going back in.


_db October 17, 2021 at 16:53 #608304
Darkness at Noon, Arthur Koestler
_db October 18, 2021 at 22:44 #608780
Anyone have any recs for books on climate change?
Manuel October 18, 2021 at 22:48 #608782
Reply to darthbarracuda

I haven't read this yet, but it is recommended by an author I respect and it looks interesting:

https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Barbarism-Manifesto-Planet-Fire/dp/1788738772/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1634597242&sr=8-1
_db October 19, 2021 at 00:33 #608831
Reply to Manuel Thanks. I am most curious about the science behind climate change. I'm looking to polish my understanding of the facts.
praxis October 19, 2021 at 03:34 #608888
A lot of books on climate change. Would be nice to know which was a good one that focuses on the science.
Streetlight October 19, 2021 at 03:46 #608892
Reply to darthbarracuda This one is aces:

https://www.amazon.com/Facing-Anthropocene-Fossil-Capitalism-Crisis/dp/1583676090
Amity October 19, 2021 at 07:57 #608933
Quoting darthbarracuda
I am most curious about the science behind climate change. I'm looking to polish my understanding of the facts.

Reply to praxis

Scientific evidence.

You can read online articles, such as this, which gives references:
Vital Signs of the Planet
https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
frank October 19, 2021 at 08:16 #608935
Quoting darthbarracuda
Thanks. I am most curious about the science behind climate change. I'm looking to polish my understanding of the facts.


I would get a textbook from a college course on climate change. David Archer wrote one.
Amity October 19, 2021 at 08:28 #608940
Quoting frank
David Archer wrote one.


Thanks for this. Looked him up. He is lecturing online free. The course starts today!

Quoting Coursera: Global Warming I - Prof. David Archer
This class describes the science of global warming and the forecast for humans’ impact on Earth’s climate. Intended for an audience without much scientific background but a healthy sense of curiosity, the class brings together insights and perspectives from physics, chemistry, biology, earth and atmospheric sciences, and even some economics—all based on a foundation of simple mathematics (algebra).

https://www.coursera.org/learn/global-warming

More on David Archer: biography, books etc:
https://geosci.uchicago.edu/people/david-archer/

Pantagruel October 19, 2021 at 09:43 #608950
Joseph Andrews by Henry Fielding
praxis October 19, 2021 at 16:19 #609020
Reply to Amity

Looks like it has the full video University lecture series. I signed up but didn’t pay the $50 for certification so I won’t be a bonafide CCV (climate change virtuoso).
Amity October 19, 2021 at 17:06 #609039
Quoting praxis
Looks like it has the full video University lecture series. I signed up but didn’t pay the $50 for certification so I won’t be a bonafide CCV (climate change virtuoso).


:smile: same here, not gonna pay £35 for a piece of paper !
Looks good. Course is based on David Archer's book 'Global Warming - Understanding the Forecast'.
I like the breakdown of Video Lectures with links to Reading/Resources/Models.

Not sure how far I will get with this - bit of a brain twist from Stoics, CBT to Maths'n'Stuff :scream:


T Clark October 19, 2021 at 18:06 #609064
Quoting darthbarracuda
Cannot read it right now, the copy I got has so many notes on every page that it's impossible to focus on the story.


If you like to listen, LibraVox has a reading I really enjoyed. Free.
Number2018 October 22, 2021 at 23:59 #610484
Lawrence Grossberg - Under the Cover of Chaos: Trump and the Battle for the American Right
Streetlight October 25, 2021 at 11:05 #611539
Michel de Certeau - The Practice of Everyday Life
Tony Norfield - The City: Global Finance and the City of London
Georges Dumezil - The Plight of the Sorcerer
Vladimir Propp - Morphology of the Folktale
Number2018 October 25, 2021 at 22:50 #611788
Judith Butler - The Psychic Life of Power: Theories in Subjection
_db October 26, 2021 at 00:38 #611843
What We Know About Climate Change, Kerry Emanuel.
Understanding Power: The Indispensable Chomsky.
Pantagruel October 28, 2021 at 10:32 #613391
Naming and Necessity by Saul Kripke
Pantagruel October 30, 2021 at 01:27 #614224
Descartes' Error: Emotion, Reason, and the Human Brain by Antonio Damasio

Purchased a few more books along with this to take me well into 2022...

Damasio's Error and Descartes' Truth: An Inquiry into Consciousness, Metaphysics, and Epistemology by Andrew Gluck

The Tree of Knowledge: the Biological Roots of Human Understanding by Humberto Maturana

Eros and Civilization: A Philosophical Inquiry into Freud by Herbert Marcuse

The Future of the Mind: The Scientific Quest to Understand, Enhance, and Empower the Mind by Michio Kaku

Discipline and Punish: The Birth of the Prison by Michel Foucault

Madness and Civilization: A History of Insanity in the Age of Reason by Michel Foucault

Capitalism and Modern Social Theory: An Analysis of the Writings of Marx, Durkheim and Max Weber by Anthony Giddens

The Psychology of Intelligence by Jean Piaget

The Piaget I am most looking forward to. Reading is a privilege and a blessing.
Maw October 30, 2021 at 04:06 #614352
Faust by Goethe

Reply to StreetlightX Monsters of the Market was interesting. Some of the analogies are a bit ham-fisted and awkwardly argued, but I really appreciated his discourse on zombies, and ultimately his insistence on emphasizing the monstrosity of capitalism.
Streetlight October 30, 2021 at 04:43 #614364
Reply to Maw :up: Cool and based.

Reply to Pantagruel Nice list!
Manuel October 30, 2021 at 04:58 #614369
Reply to Maw

If I don't remember incorrectly, you read Quinn Slobodian's Globalists, which was an excellent dissection of Neoliberalism. It led me to other fantastic books on the topic, particularly Jessica Whyte's Morals of the Market and then Philip Mirowski's Never Let a Serious Crisis go To Waste as well as Wassernman's The Marginal Revolutionaries, which is an intellectual history of the Austrian School.

I got a decent picture on Neoliberalism. Nevertheless, I was looking to reading something similar to Slobodian's book, that kind of quality. Do any come to mind?
Streetlight October 30, 2021 at 05:08 #614376
Reply to Manuel Melinda Cooper's Family Values - this book more than any other made me realize the depravity of neoliberalism. It's one of my all time favourite social studies. Wendy Brown's work is usually one of the standard references (Undoing the Demos and In the Ruins of Neoliberalism), but Coopers book really shows you how it works at a 'on the ground', social level. US focused, but exemplary of its world-wide creep. Can't recommend it highly enough.
Manuel October 30, 2021 at 05:13 #614378
Reply to StreetlightX


Ah, cool. The idea of the family used as excuse for implementing market discipline kind-of thing?

I'll be sure to check it Cooper out.

Many thanks!
Streetlight October 30, 2021 at 05:17 #614379
Quoting Manuel
The idea of the family used as excuse for implementing market discipline kind-of thing?


Kind of. It's how 'the family' became the last bastion of non-market socaility, and how much this absolutely has ruined people. Also explains how neoliberalism and social conservatism basically dovetail into one another on this basis. She kind uses the family unit as a prism through which to view the neoliberalism's social effects. It's devastating.
Manuel October 30, 2021 at 05:25 #614381
Reply to StreetlightX

Sounds right up my alley. :up:
180 Proof October 30, 2021 at 12:47 #614483
GraveItty October 30, 2021 at 13:31 #614497
Quoting Manuel
The idea of the family used as excuse for implementing market discipline kind-of thing?


Do you mean the pictures of family happiness in advertising?
Manuel October 30, 2021 at 14:33 #614509
Reply to GraveItty

No. It has to do with an economic system dating back to the late 70's in which economic policies were forced down people's throat under the guise of freedom, etc. And much more, long story.

The books I mentioned above, plus @Maw and @StreetlightX's suggestions will give you a good idea on neoliberalism, if you're interested.
GraveItty October 30, 2021 at 14:48 #614517
Quoting Manuel
No. It has to do with an economic system dating back to the late 70's in which economic policies were forced down people's throat under the guise of freedom, etc. And much more, long story.


Ah yes. It still happens today. In an increasingly wicked and thought-through fashion. For example, there are many advertisements in which "individuality" is pushed upon. I'm not sure if you point at advertisement, or commercials (both part of an economy based on endless inflating production and consumption of the products) but I think I get your message. Advertisements claiming that that all we see is constructed by us, directing away our attention from Nature. Commerce in the service of a system that assigns us an individuality, while in fact it makes people more unified than ever. In the name of personal freedom and individuality.
Manuel October 30, 2021 at 17:35 #614600
Reply to GraveItty

Yeah. It's an important aspect of a massive change in political ideology that is still with us to this day. I haven't read the book yet, but know a little about such ideas, if a politician says he/she upholds "family values", then that's an excuse to not do anything for anybody in terms of implementing laws that could help people in need. Why? Because they have a family to support them.

But it's even deeper than that. I have to read that book to get a better understanding of what's involved.
GraveItty October 30, 2021 at 17:58 #614602
Quoting Manuel
, if a politician says he/she upholds "family values", then that's an excuse to not do anything for anybody in terms of implementing laws that could help people in need. Why? Because they have a family to support them.


Exactly! All that talk about family values offers a neat way out of values that are non-value-like. The anti-family values are shunt from law implementation and law-making. Having consequences for the people who don't give a shit about family-values. Making society family-racist, so to speak. Same holds for the so popular free-market values. There is nowadays no escape from advertisement. The gathering of money and goods has never been so popular, and while one person wallows in billions of dollars, drinking from golden taps and letting his jet fly him automatically around the globe, others look for a place to sleep and a meal to eat. But hey, it's a free market...
Manuel October 30, 2021 at 18:06 #614603
Reply to GraveItty

Pretty much. :up:

Currently reading:

My View of the World - Erin Schrödinger

An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding - David Hume

Almost done with:

Ducks, Newsburyport - Lucy Ellmann




Maw October 30, 2021 at 23:30 #614775
Reply to Manuel Yeah Quinn Slobodian's book is excellent! Was going to recommend Wendy Brown's In The Ruins of Neoliberalism, but looks like I was beat to the punch. Incidentally was looking to start Melinda Cooper's Family Values by the end of this year or early next.
Manuel October 30, 2021 at 23:47 #614794
Quoting Maw
Was going to recommend Wendy Brown's In The Ruins of Neoliberalism, but looks like I was beat to the punch.


I didn't look into that one because it did not look inviting for some reason. But if people here think it's good, then it probably is. Thanks.

:up:
frank October 30, 2021 at 23:55 #614801
Quoting Maw
looks like I was beat to the punch.


Yeah, by me.
Maw October 31, 2021 at 00:08 #614806
Reply to frank Two months ago is cute, try two years ago.
frank October 31, 2021 at 00:17 #614811
Reply to Maw
I recommended it 12 years ago.
Manuel October 31, 2021 at 00:19 #614813
Reply to Maw Reply to frank

:rofl:

Nerds all of you!
frank October 31, 2021 at 00:23 #614819
Manuel October 31, 2021 at 00:35 #614823
Pantagruel November 01, 2021 at 10:31 #615499
The Tree of Knowledge: The Biological Roots of Human Understanding
by Humberto R. Maturana, Francisco J. Varela
180 Proof November 01, 2021 at 17:01 #615565
_db November 03, 2021 at 01:38 #616129
"The Good Old Days": The Holocaust as Seen by its Perpetrators and Bystanders, Ernst Klee, Willi Dressen, & Volker Riess
180 Proof November 03, 2021 at 02:52 #616140
Reply to _db Ordered, added to my November reading list. Fuck me but I have to read diese Scheiße! :brow:
Maw November 03, 2021 at 03:06 #616146
[tweet]https://twitter.com/ByMikeBaker/status/1455730582130806785[/tweet]

Quoting Maw
Monsters of the Market Zombies, Vampires and Global Capitalism by David McNally


Yeah so read this book
_db November 03, 2021 at 03:27 #616151
Reply to 180 Proof It's fucked up, but well worth it.
180 Proof November 05, 2021 at 12:23 #617043
November readings:

In the Presence of Absence, Mahmoud Darwish
The Dawn of Everything, David Graeber & David Wengrow
The Good Old Days, eds. E. Klee, W. Dressen, & V. Riess

rereading:

Pyrrhonism, Adrian Kuzminski
The World of Parmenides, Karl Popper
Philosophical Investigations, Ludwig Wittgenstein
Quoting StreetlightX
His menagerie of linguistic ills - language in idle, being mislead by grammar, being captured by a picture, and so on - all bear upon words employed without a language game; that is, without even a role like a rook that could, even in principle, be said to be 'wrong'. This distinction is what is novel and important in Witty.
Streetlight November 05, 2021 at 12:29 #617045
Quoting 180 Proof
The Dawn of Everything, David Graeber & David Wen


I cannot wait to read this!!

Quoting 180 Proof
Philosophical Investigations, Ludwig Wittgenstein


Yay!! A qualification: alot of the time, Witty is also talking about words in language-games where they "don't belong". Words which, in one language-game work perfect fine, but, when employed in another with the expectation that it will 'work' in the same way as it's 'original home', makes for wild confusion (this is 'being captured by a picture').
Pantagruel November 05, 2021 at 13:10 #617055
Quoting 180 Proof
The Dawn of Everything, David Graeber & David Wengrow


:cool:

TPF - the place where theories of everything come to be born.

Definitely going on the short list.
Pantagruel November 05, 2021 at 13:44 #617061
Damasio's Error and Descartes' Truth: An Inquiry into Consciousness, Metaphysics, and Epistemology
by Andrew Gluck

Now for the other side of the coin.....
Maw November 08, 2021 at 15:27 #618265
Palestine: A Socialist Introduction edited by Sumaya Awad and Brian Bean

@StreetlightX looks like the Verso end of year sale has started. Could have sworn it was 50% off last year though.
Manuel November 09, 2021 at 03:32 #618472
Damn man, Ducks Newburyport by Lucy Ellmann was an awesome book. 1000 pages, one sentence (yes, one.), stream of consciousness. Delightful, quirky, empathic, intelligent, demanding, insightful and more.

It might not be "postmodern", but surely a masterpiece. It will take considerable effort and you may not like it but, I must add to the "hard books worth reading".

@180 Proof @jamalrob @Deleteduserrc

You guys might want to consider checking it out, if you're up for the challenge. I can't vouch for it like I do for Novel Explosives, which is a must for philosophical-literature fans but, it's worth knowing about.
180 Proof November 09, 2021 at 04:28 #618490
Reply to Manuel Thanks, but no thanks.
Jamal November 09, 2021 at 07:08 #618533
Quoting Manuel
Ducks Newburyport


I read the first few pages on Amazon's "look inside" and thought it was a fun read. The form looks interesting, less so the themes and subject matter. It might be a matter of taste.

And there's the blurb:

"A scorching indictment of America's barbarity, past and present, and a lament for the way we are sleepwalking into environmental disaster"

Yawn! But I guess I shouldn't judge the book by the blurb.

And then there's ... "the fact that". Would I be a middlebrow philistine fool to point out how ugly this phrase is? Maybe it takes on a pleasing hypnotic quality as you get into the book, I don't know. Think how much paper and readers' time could have been saved if every instance of "the fact that" had been removed. Now, I expect the sentence wraps up at the end brilliantly or movingly or shockingly or whatever, when "the fact that" finally pays off, but still, I wonder if it justifies making the reader put up with it for almosty the whole reading experience.

Of course, these are just initial reactions combined with my tastes and prejudices.

Quoting Manuel
It might not be "postmodern"


I suppose it's kinda modernist in that it has a superficial resemblance to parts of Ulysses, though maybe without the poetry. Whether it's postmodern, I don't know. I don't even know what "postmodern(ist)" means when it comes to fiction. It can't be about the cool stuff like self-reference, metafiction, nested stories and so on, because that was going on at the beginning of the novel in Don Quixote, and hasn't stopped since then.
Streetlight November 09, 2021 at 07:24 #618538
Reply to Maw Yay! I get two books from them everytime this happens lol. But yes I have this vague memory of it being 50% last year.

Reply to Manuel All my 'booky' friends are really into this. Rave reviews all around. I might read it in a decade or two.
180 Proof November 09, 2021 at 07:46 #618544
Quoting jamalrob
I don't even know what "postmodern(ist)" means when it comes to fiction. It can't be about the cool stuff like self-reference, metafiction, nested stories and so on, cos that was going on at the beginning of the novel in Don Quixote, and hasn't stopped since then.

:up:
Manuel November 09, 2021 at 15:09 #618626
Reply to jamalrob

It's what she uses as a way to connect sentences, it could be annoying to some, I thought it worked well. As for the subject matter, yes, it doesn't sound interesting at all, it actually surprised me that it was interesting.

I said "postmodern" in relation to Pynchon and Wallace which you were thinking about reading eventually. Good point about Don Quixote. Maybe challenging book might be a better term.

I can't say you'll enjoy it, it might turn out to be very boring for you, but given that you were talking about GR and IJ, difficult books or unique books in general. Now you know about it.

Quoting StreetlightX
All my 'booky' friends are really into this. Rave reviews all around. I might read it in a decade or two.


:lol:

Given the books you discuss, I'd say there's no hurry. I think David Graeber's upcoming book, is going to be really worthwhile.
Jamal November 09, 2021 at 15:11 #618627
Quoting Manuel
I said "postmodern" in relation to Pynchon and Wallace which you were thinking about reading eventually. Good point about Don Quixote. Maybe challenging book might be a better term.

I can't say you'll enjoy it, it might turn out to be very boring for you, but given that you were talking about GR and IJ, difficult books or unique books in general. Now you know about it.


:up:

Yep, and I enjoyed looking into it for a few minutes. Who knows if I'll go further with it. Maybe in two decades.

Maw November 09, 2021 at 23:36 #618761
Reply to StreetlightX Let me know what you pick up. I have a list but want to be a bit selective since I want to get an order from Haymarket too.
Maw November 09, 2021 at 23:38 #618763
Quoting Manuel
1000 pages, one sentence (yes, one.),


Krasznahorkai is shaking right now.
Manuel November 10, 2021 at 00:10 #618775
Reply to Maw

He's upcoming for me later this year. I hear he's excellent.
Maw November 10, 2021 at 01:53 #618806
Quoting Manuel
He's upcoming for me later this year. I hear he's excellent.


I admittedly don't read a lot of novels but I do love me some Krasnahorkai.
Manuel November 10, 2021 at 02:08 #618810
Reply to Maw

One of his came out a week ago:

https://www.amazon.com/Chasing-Homer-L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3-Krasznahorkai/dp/0811227979/ref=sr_1_1?crid=149FD2G9HHW6K&keywords=lazlo+krasnahorkai&qid=1636510031&s=books&sprefix=lazlo+kra%2Caps%2C197&sr=1-1

Streetlight November 10, 2021 at 05:05 #618854
Reply to Maw I'm gonna pick up McNally's Against the Market and Hito Steyerl's Duty Free Art. There's a few others I want (specifically Enzo Traverso's Revolution: An Intellectual History, and Losurdo also has a newly translated book coming out in 2022, Democracy or Bonapartism, which I'm looking forward to) but I need to limit myself otherwise I will go broke.

Also currently reading I guess:

Edmund Leach - Rethinking Anthropology
Roland Barthes - Elements of Semiology
Claude Levi-Strauss - Myth and Meaning
Radhika Desai - Geopolitical Economy: After US Hegemony, Globalization, and Empire
_db November 12, 2021 at 00:13 #619503
The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion, Jonathan Haidt.
Maw November 13, 2021 at 00:43 #619784
Reply to Manuel Thanks for reminding me this was coming out in English, just picked it up. Interesting concept.
180 Proof November 13, 2021 at 04:17 #619829
Reply to Manuel :cool: Ordered a copy.
Manuel November 14, 2021 at 01:17 #620160
Reply to Maw Reply to 180 Proof

Enjoy, I'll be joining you guys soon! :victory:
Echoes November 14, 2021 at 06:51 #620234
Reading The myth of Sisyphus for the second time. Last read is about 5 years ago. Giving it another read since Friday.
Pantagruel November 14, 2021 at 16:35 #620377
The Psychology of Intelligence
by Jean Piaget
Snakes Alive November 14, 2021 at 21:30 #620481
Revisiting some Anglophone classics about language from mid-century:

J. L. Austin – How to Do Things with Words
J. L. Austin – Sense and Sensibilia
John Searle – Speech Acts
S. I. Hayakawa – Language in Thought and Action
C. L. Stevenson – Ethics and Language
180 Proof November 14, 2021 at 22:09 #620493
Chasing Homer, László Krasznahorkai
_db November 15, 2021 at 04:02 #620616
Obedience To Authority, Stanley Milgram.
Maw November 15, 2021 at 19:06 #620806
The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction by Walter Benjamin
Chasing Homer by László Krasznahorkai
Pantagruel November 16, 2021 at 11:53 #621088
The Story of Psychology
by Morton Hunt
Maw November 18, 2021 at 16:38 #621813
Family Values: Between Neoliberalism and the New Social Conservatism by Melinda Cooper
Pantagruel November 20, 2021 at 19:21 #622425
De Anima
by Aristotle
Jamal November 22, 2021 at 17:48 #623008
Well, as promised, I read Dune. A remarkable creation, and rightly famous I think, but not my cup of tea. By half way through I was rooting for the Harkonnens. I can only take so much humourless solemnity rendered in lacklustre prose.

Now, probably on to some more fiction. Something from: Gene Wolfe, Cervantes, Dostoevsky's Demons, Huysmans' Against Nature, Calvino's Invisible Cities, short stories by Gogol and Lem.

I've been reading some stories by Donald Barthelme: "The Balloon", "The School", and "On the Deck". Great stuff. I'd never read anything like them before.
180 Proof November 22, 2021 at 19:27 #623040
Quoting jamalrob
Now, probably on to some more fiction. Something from: Gene Wolfe, Cervantes, Dostoevsky's Demons, Huysmans' Against Nature, Calvino's Invisible Cities, short stories by Gogol and Lem.

:cool: :up:
Snakes Alive November 22, 2021 at 23:17 #623166
Reviews of previous books:

Austin's Sense and Sensibilia
Really incredible. No idea why I hadn't read it sooner. Section VII should be mandatory reading for everyone. Sadly some of the finer-grained judgments he uses to attack Ayer strike me as either mistaken (in that I actually agree with Ayer's linguistic judgment) or too slippery to be used effectively as a methodology, and some of the ripostes struck me as ad hoc. It's a testament to how ineffective this kind of appeal to ordinary language tends to be that it breaks down precisely where interesting questions are asked, and the audience can't seriously sympathize with either party without just claiming to have one linguistic intuition over another. But, in the critique of foundational empiricism, really incredible.

Hayakawa's Language in Thought and Action
Seemed stupid, stopped reading near the beginning.

Searle's Speech Acts
As with all Searle, this is mostly boring, and not particularly insightful beyond a few clarifying points with regards to past authors (updating the Gricean notion of meaning in terms of the Austinian introduction of illocutionary acts, for example). Some of the postulates he appeals to, like that what is referred to must exist, that reference requires being able to uniquely identify an object to be successful, etc. just seem straightforwardly wrong, and I think treating predication and reference as 'speech acts' just muddies the Austinian terminology unnecessarily.

Stevenson's Ethics and Language
Seems promising so far, though maybe out of date by this point as a work of analytic philosophy. Only a short way into it.

Austin's How to Do Things With Words
Rereading this one. Still a masterpiece. I see new things every time I read it, and the insights seem to hold up better and better with time.

Probably going to read Vendler's Linguistics in Philosophy and Derrida's Of Grammtology next. And maybe Barthes' book on semiotics.
Manuel November 23, 2021 at 00:01 #623192
The Morning Star - Karl Ove Knausgaard

Re-reading:

Manifest Reality: Kant's Idealism and his Realism by Lucy Allais
Streetlight November 23, 2021 at 01:15 #623217
Quoting Snakes Alive
Stevenson's Ethics and Language


I've not read this, but one of my favorite texts on ethics of all time is the 3rd(?) section of Stanley Cavell's The Claim of Reason, where he brutalizes this book.

Quoting Snakes Alive
And maybe Barthes' book on semiotics.


Am currently reading this one atm - schematic and functional, but good.

Quoting Maw
Family Values: Between Neoliberalism and the New Social Conservatism by Melinda Cooper


:cheer:

Also, about to start:

Michael Roberts - The Long Depression: How it Happened, Why it Happened, and What Happens Next. A defense of Marx's thesis on the 'tendency of the rate of profit to fall', in light of the post-2008 world economy.
Maw November 23, 2021 at 02:07 #623224
Quoting StreetlightX
Michael Roberts - The Long Depression: How it Happened, Why it Happened, and What Happens Next. A defense of Marx's thesis on the 'tendency of the rate of profit to fall', in light of the post-2008 world economy.


:gasp:
Snakes Alive November 23, 2021 at 03:12 #623240
Quoting StreetlightX
I've not read this, but one of my favorite texts on ethics of all time is the 3rd(?) section of Stanley Cavell's The Claim of Reason, where he brutalizes this book.


Cool, I might check it out. Stevenson is mainly referenced today as an influence on a kind of non-cognitivism about moral language, so far as I know (which I don't think is plausible).
180 Proof November 24, 2021 at 12:21 #623600
The Anomaly, Hervé Le Tellier
_db November 26, 2021 at 02:22 #624212
On Disobedience, Erich Fromm
The Present Age, Søren Kierkegaard
Pantagruel November 27, 2021 at 12:38 #624591
Philosophy of Existence
by Karl Jaspers
James Riley November 28, 2021 at 20:22 #625180
When Stars Came Down to Earth, Cosmology of the Skidi Pawnee Indians of North America, by Von Del Chamberlain.

Second time through. Last time was about 20 year ago and I wasn't paying attention.
Maw November 28, 2021 at 21:37 #625214
Comments on the Society of the Spectacle by Guy Debord
_db November 29, 2021 at 03:34 #625347
The Civilization of the Middle Ages, Norman F. Cantor. An exceedingly pleasurable read, though not without its shortcomings.
Snakes Alive November 29, 2021 at 04:01 #625349
In addition to the Derrida and Vendler, I've got the following on the list:

Noam Chomsky – Cartesian Linguistics: A Chapter in the History of Rationalist Thought
Benjamin Lee Whorf – Language, Thought, and Reality: Selected Writings of Benjamin Lee Whorf
Wilhelm von Humboldt – On Language: On the Diversity of Human Language Construction and Its Influence on the Mental Development of the Human Species
Abu Nasr al-Farabi – The Book of Letters
Streetlight November 29, 2021 at 11:44 #625439
John Smith - Imperialism in the Twenty-First Century: Globalization, Super-Exploitation, and Capitalism’s Final Crisis
Intan Suwandi - Value Chains: The New Economic Imperialism
Maw November 29, 2021 at 15:58 #625509
Reply to StreetlightX these sound interesting
Streetlight November 29, 2021 at 16:17 #625519
Reply to Maw Will let you know when I'm through!
Pantagruel November 30, 2021 at 12:05 #625833
The Origin and Goal of History
by Karl Jaspers
Maw December 01, 2021 at 00:16 #626175
Reply to StreetlightX :up:

Imagined Communities: Reflections on the Origin and Spread of Nationalism by Benedict Anderson
180 Proof December 03, 2021 at 12:27 #627294
December readings

Feeling & Knowing: Making Minds Conscious, Antonio Damasio
A History of the Goddess: From the Ice Age to the Bible, Edward Dodge
The Nature of Middle-Earth, ed. Carl Hostetter
Set the Night on Fire, Robby Krieger

re-reading

What the Buddha Taught, Walpola Rahula
Alternatives to Capitalism: Proposals for a Democratic Economy, R. Hanhel & E.O. Wright
Baden December 04, 2021 at 20:03 #627814
Henry IV. Shame on me for not having read it before.

Deleted User December 04, 2021 at 21:04 #627827
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
James Riley December 04, 2021 at 21:09 #627829
Quoting tim wood
Whose copy are you reading? Used book prices on this are North of $500! Oh, wait! One $250.


"A Ballena Press/Center for Archeoastronomy Cooperative Publication." I doubt that I paid more than 20 bucks for it. Probably mid-1990s? It's a 9" tall X 6" wide paper back.
Deleted User December 04, 2021 at 21:11 #627833
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
James Riley December 04, 2021 at 21:18 #627837
Quoting tim wood
And apparently worth not spilling coffee on! Or I'll buy it from you for not more than $20.


Yikes! I had no idea. I'll be more careful with my coffee! Anyway, I have to go needle my wife about this. :rofl:
Deleted User December 04, 2021 at 21:21 #627840
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
James Riley December 04, 2021 at 21:23 #627841
Quoting tim wood
Careful she doesn't place it under her authority. The authority of which all married men know, and real men fear (if their wives are real women).


:zip: :grin:
Deleted User December 04, 2021 at 21:49 #627857
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
Manuel December 04, 2021 at 21:56 #627863
Currently Reading:

The Revisionaries by A.R. Moxon

Re-reading:

A Treatise Concerning Eternal and Immutable Morality by Ralph Cudworth

Even though I very much enjoyed this book the first time through, this time now there's so much more to take out of it, it truly is a goldmine of knowledge and insight. I can surely see why Chomsky thinks these ideas are richer than Kant's, in some respects at least.

It's a bit of shame he's not much, much better known. But, being a very dense theologian does not help.
James Riley December 04, 2021 at 22:14 #627869
Quoting tim wood
More a question as to what it's doing for folks here, how it rows your boat and what boat it rows.


Rather than a boat-rowing metaphor, I like the idea of scratching an itch. Sometimes that itch is too hard to reach, so I use a back scratcher, which would be a book. Hopefully it's not too sharp or too fast, like a chain saw. I'm not that tough.

I like a tree with the bark on. Something that stands still, and solid, while I work on it. AHHHH! A little lower! Perfect!

I've had a hard time finding the perfect tree. I thought of planting a few my own self, and I actually did; twenty years ago, even. But they still aren't throwing shade, or scratching any backs but my own. So I turn to others in the old growth forest.

But I hear chainsaws in the distance.


Jamal December 11, 2021 at 11:00 #630100
Just read and currently reading, with detailed emoji reviews.

Italo Calvino, Invisible Cities :up: :starstruck: :sparkle:
Joris-Karl Huysmans, Against Nature :up: :down: :yawn:
Joseph Conrad, Heart of Darkness :up: :down: :yawn:
Nikolai Gogol, Petersburg Tales :up: :lol: :love:
Samuel Beckett, Molloy :up: :100: :death: :rofl: :sparkle: :love:
Amity December 11, 2021 at 11:56 #630105
Quoting jamalrob
Just read and currently reading, with detailed emoji reviews.


:up: :100: :sparkle: :starstruck: :cool:

Simples for Short Story Competition :party:
_db December 11, 2021 at 20:27 #630200
Treblinka, Jean-François Steiner
180 Proof December 11, 2021 at 23:03 #630261
Quoting jamalrob
Italo Calvino, Invisible Cities :up: :starstruck: :sparkle:

Samuel Beckett, Molloy :up: :100: :death: :rofl: :sparkle: :love:

:cool:
Maw December 13, 2021 at 03:30 #630739
None So Fit to Break the Chains: Marx’s Ethics of Self-Emancipation by Dan Swain
Jamal December 14, 2021 at 06:31 #631211
Quoting 180 Proof
:cool:


I think I've had Molloy on my reading list since I noticed you saying something about it years ago, either here or on the old forum. So, thanks. :cool:

(Now the pointlessness and stupidity of my existence is confirmed beyond doubt :wink:)
180 Proof December 14, 2021 at 11:43 #631278
_db December 15, 2021 at 05:30 #631582
Treblinka was unbelievably good. Holy fuck
Bret Bernhoft December 15, 2021 at 07:55 #631603
I am presently reading "Techgnosis" by Eric Davis.
180 Proof December 15, 2021 at 08:03 #631605
Classical Indian Philosophy vol. 5, P. Adamson & J. Ganeri
john27 December 15, 2021 at 21:11 #631723
I read Solaris by Stanislaw Lem a while back, it was pretty decent.
_db December 19, 2021 at 19:56 #632920
Into That Darkness: An Examination of Conscience, Gitta Sereny
180 Proof December 20, 2021 at 06:08 #633062
Prolegomena to Any Future Materialism, vol 2,
Adrian Johnston
Pantagruel December 22, 2021 at 16:43 #633923
Eros and Civilization: A Philosophical Inquiry into Freud
by Herbert Marcuse
Leghorn December 22, 2021 at 23:20 #634034
Just finished Voltaire’s Candide (Adams edition). This paragraph made me think of this forum so well, I thought I would reproduce it here:

“While Candide, the baron, Pangloss, Martin, and Cacambo were telling one another their stories, while they were disputing over the contingent or non-contingent events of this universe, while they were arguing over effects and causes, over moral and physical evil, over liberty and necessity, and over the consolations available to one in a Turkish galley, they arrived at the shores of Propontis and the house of the prince of Transylvania. The first sight to meet their eyes was Cunegonde and the old woman, who were hanging out towels on lines to dry.

“The baron paled at what he saw. The tender lover Candide, seeing his lovely Cunegonde with her skin weathered, her eyes bloodshot, her breasts fallen, her cheeks seamed, her arms red and scaly, recoiled three steps in horror, and then advanced only out of politeness...”
Pantagruel December 24, 2021 at 12:01 #634504
Foundations Of Cognitive Science
by Michael I. Posner (Editor)
_db December 26, 2021 at 05:13 #635032
Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka: The Operation Reinhard Death Camps, Yitzhak Arad
Manuel December 26, 2021 at 22:19 #635403
Alternating between:

An Essay Concerning Human Understanding by John Locke

New Essays on Human Understanding by G.W. Leibniz

And, of course, fiction:

Sunflower by Tex Gresham
Maw December 27, 2021 at 05:40 #635623
About 1/3 through Theories of Ideology by Jan Rehmann (excellent btw), which will likely be the last book I start in this year, so time for another annual roundup.

  • Citizens to Lords: A Social History of Western Political Thought from Antiquity to the Middle Ages by Ellen Meiksins Wood
  • Liberty and Property: A Social History of Western Political Thought from Renaissance to Enlightenment by Ellen Meiksins Wood
  • Black Marxism: The Making of the Black Radical Tradition by Cedric Robinson
  • Black Skin, White Masks by Frantz Fanon
  • The Origin of Capitalism by Ellen Meiksins Wood (reread)
  • Liberalism: A Counter-History by Domenico Losurdo
  • The Bourgeois: Between History and Literature by Franco Moretti
  • Mongrel Firebugs and Men of Property: Capitalism and Class Conflict in American History by Steve Fraser
  • How the West Came to Rule: The Geopolitical Origins of Capitalism by Alexander Anievas and Kerem Nisancioglu
  • Portraits: John Berger on Artists by John Berger
  • The Pristine Culture of Capitalism by Ellen Meiksins Wood
  • Democracy Against Capitalism by Ellen Meiksins Wood
  • Studies On Pre-Capitalist Modes of Production edited by Andrea Zingarelli and Laura da Graca
  • What Hath God Wrought: The Transformation of America, 1815–1848 by historian Daniel Walker Howe
  • Marx's Capital and Hegel's Logic: A Reexamination edited by Fred Moseley and Tony Smith
  • Sir Gawain and the Green Knight
  • How Revolutionary Were the Bourgeois Revolutions? by Neil Davidson
  • The Jakarta Method: Washington's Anticommunist Crusade and the Mass Murder Program that Shaped Our World by Vincent Bevins
  • Baron Wenckheim's Homecoming by László Krasznahorkai
  • Bela Tarr, the Time After by Jacques Rancière
  • Monsters of the Market Zombies, Vampires and Global Capitalism by David McNally
  • Faust by Goethe
  • The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction by Walter Benjamin
  • Chasing Homer by László Krasznahorkai
  • Family Values: Between Neoliberalism and the New Social Conservatism by Melinda Cooper
  • Comments on the Society of the Spectacle by Guy Debord
  • Imagined Communities: Reflections on the Origin and Spread of Nationalism by Benedict Anderson
  • None So Fit to Break the Chains: Marx’s Ethics of Self-Emancipation by Dan Swain
  • Theories of Ideology by Jan Rehmann
Streetlight December 27, 2021 at 06:58 #635651
End of year list! 46 Books, 16 not by white men. Definitely taken a turn towards political economy and history this year, and I think the plan will be to try to get back to more philosophy next year, tho we'll see how that goes. Titles in bold are favorites. Starred titles were disappointments. Happy reading for the New Year all!

History

  • Ellen Meiksins Wood - Citizens to Lords: A Social History of Western Political Thought from Antiquity to the Middle Ages
  • Ellen Meiksins Wood - Liberty and Property: A Social History of Western Political Thought from Renaissance to Enlightenment
  • Ellen Meiksins Wood - Empire of Capital
  • Jairus Banaji - A Brief History of Commercial Capitalism
  • Jairus Banaji - Theory As History: Essays on Modes of Production and Exploitation


Political Economy

  • Giovanni Arrighi - Adam Smith In Beijing: Lineages of the Twenty-First Century
  • Giovanni Arrighi - The Long Twentieth Century: Money, Power, and the Origins of our Times
  • Michael Hudson - Super Imperialism: The Origin and Fundamentals of U.S. World Dominance
  • Robert Brenner - The Boom and the Bubble: The US in the World Economy
  • Robert Brenner - The Economics of Global Turbulence: The Advanced Capitalist Economies from Long Boom to Long Downturn, 1945–2005
  • Tony Norfield - The City: Global Finance and the City of London
  • Radhika Desai - Geopolitical Economy: After US Hegemony, Globalization, and Empire
  • Michael Roberts - The Long Depression: Marxism and The Global Crisis of Capitalism
  • John Smith - Imperialism in the Twenty-First Century: Globalization, Super-Exploitation, and Capitalism’s Final Crisis
  • Intan Suwandi - Value Chains: The New Economic Imperialism
  • Utsa Patnaik and Sam Moyo – The Agrarian Question in the Neoliberal Era: Primitive Accumulation and the Peasantry
  • Nick Srnicek - Platform Capitalism
  • McKenzie Wark - Capital is Dead. Is This Something Worse?***
  • Arundhati Roy - The Cost of Living
  • Arundhati Roy - The Chequebook and the Cruise Missile


States and Revolution

  • Theda Skocpol - States and Social Revolutions: A Comparative Analysis of France, Russia, and China
  • Neil Davidson - How Revolutionary Were the Bourgeois Revolutions?
  • Charles Tilly - Coercion, Capital, and European States, A.D. 990-1992
  • James C. Scott - Against The Grain: A Deep History of the Earliest States
  • James C. Scott - Seeing Like A State: How Certain Schemes to Improve the Human Condition Have Failed
  • Hendrik Spruyt - The Sovereign State and Its Competitors: An Analysis of System Change
  • Leigh Phillips and Michal Rozworski - People's Republic of Walmart: How the World's Biggest Corporations are Laying the Foundation for Socialism


Anthropology and Structuralism

  • Georges Dumezil - The Destiny of a King
  • Georges Dumezil - The Plight of the Sorcerer
  • Georges Dumezil - The Destiny of the Warrior
  • Georges Dumezil - Mitra-Varuna: An Essay on Two Indo-European Representations of Sovereignty
  • Marshall Sahlins - Stone Age Economics
  • Marshall Sahlins - Islands of History
  • Jane Jacobs - The Death and Life of Great American Cities
  • Vladimir Propp - Morphology of the Folktale
  • Roland Barthes - Elements of Semiology
  • Roland Barthes - The Pleasure of the Text
  • Claude Levi-Strauss - Myth and Meaning


Mostly Philosophy

  • Albert O. Hirschman - The Rhetoric of Reaction: Perversity, Futility, Jeopardy
  • Gilles Deleuze - Foucault
  • Gilles Deleuze - The Fold: Leibniz and the Baroque
  • Charles W. Mills - The Racial Contract
  • Jon Roffe - Abstract Market Theory
  • Michel de Certeau - The Practice of Everyday Life (Reread)
  • Hito Steyerl - The Wretched of the Screen
  • Kathryn Yusoff - A Billion Black Anthropocenes or None***


Reply to Maw Nice list! I'm about to finish Suwandi's Value Chains and when I'll do I'll do a quick write up of that and Smith's Imperialism. Did you like Family Values?
Maw December 29, 2021 at 23:57 #636476
Reply to StreetlightX Nice list, never ceases to impress and perplex me on how you manage to read over 40 books a year, each year.

Loved Family Values; the chapter on Inflation was particularly enlightening.
180 Proof December 30, 2021 at 11:47 #636638
2021 readings (started, most but not all I've finished)

[M] - memoir, auto/biography
[L] - literary re: poetry, novel, short fiction

Classical Indian Philosophy, vol. 5, P. Adamson & J. Ganeri
Searching For Whitopia, Rich Benjamin
The Darker the Night, the Brighter the Stars: A Neuropsychologist’s Odyssey, Paul Broks
Holes and Other Superficialities, R. Casati & A.C. Varzi
Razorblade Tears: A Novel, S.A. Cosby [L]
Feeling & Knowing: Making Minds Conscious, Antonio Damasio
In the Presence of Absence, Mahmoud Darwish [L]
How We Learn: Why Brains Learn Better Than Any Machine . . . for Now, Stanislas Dehaene
A History of the Goddess: From the Ice Age to the Bible, Edward Dodge
The Ethical Slut (3rd Edition), D. Easton & J. Hardy [M]
John Rawls: Reticent Socialist, William A. Edmundson
The Dawn of Everything, David Graeber & David Wengrow
Skepticism and Mysticism: On Mauthner's Critique of Language by Gustav Landauer 1903, David Grunwald
From Communism to Capitalism: Theory of a Catastrophe, Michel Henry
Marx: A Philosophy of Human Reality, Michel Henry
The Self-Assembling Brain: How Neural Networks Grow Smarter, Peter Robin Hiesinger
• The Nature of Middle-Earth by J.R.R. Tolkien, ed. Carl F. Hostetter [L]
Klara and the Sun, Kazuo Ishiguro [L]
New Jerusalem: The Interrogation of Baruch de Spinoza at Talmud Torah Congregation: Amsterdam, July 27, 1656, David Ives
Last Chance Texaco: Chronicles of an American Troubadour, Rickie Lee Jones [M]
The Prophets, Robert Jones, Jr [L]
The Framer's Coup, Michael J. Klarman
The Good Old Days, eds. E. Klee, W. Dressen, & V. Riess
The Structure of World History: From Modes of Production to Modes of Exchange, K?jin Karatani
Chasing Homer, László Krasznahorkai [L]
Set the Night on Fire, Robby Krieger [M]
Exterminate All The Brutes, Sven Lindqvist
The Psychology of Stupidity, ed. Jean-François Marmion
Agon, J. Harper & S. Nittner (ttrpg)
A Quantum Life, Hakeem M. Olesuyi [M]
The Journal of Albion Moonlight, Kenneth Patchen [L]
The Selected Writings of Pierre Hadot: Philosophy As Practice, ed. Keith Ansell Pearson
Echo Tree: The Collected Short Fiction of Henry Dumas, ed. Eugene Redman [L]
The Enlightenment: The Pursuit of Happiness, Ritchie Robertson
Helgoland, Carlo Rovelli
After Capitalism (New 2nd Edition), David Schweickart
The Battlefield Where the Moon Says I Love You, Frank Stanford [L]
The Anomaly, Hervé Le Tellier [L]
Ages of Discord: A Structural-Demographic Analysis of American History, Peter Turchin
Mama's Last Hug, Frans de Waal
Project Hail Mary, Andy Weir [L]
Zone One, Colson Whitehead [L]
Hitler's American Model, James Q. Whitman
• Big White Ghetto, Kevin D. Williamson
Pantagruel December 30, 2021 at 14:14 #636675
Madness & Civilization by Michel Foucault
A fitting start to 2022?

My 2021 readings, in chronological order:

  • First Principles by Herbert Spencer
  • Nicholas Nickleby by Charles Dickens
  • Ideology And Utopia: An Introduction to the Sociology of Knowledge by Karl Mannheim
  • The Intellectuals and The Masses: Pride and Prejudice among the Literary Intelligentsia by John Carey
  • Toward a Psychology of Being by Abraham H. Maslow
  • The Antiquary by Walter Scott
  • An Essay on Metaphysics by R.G. Collingwood
  • The Metaphysics of Pragmatism by Sidney Hook
  • The Master and Margarita by Mikhail Bulgakov
  • Introduction to Metaphysics by Martin Heidegger
  • Time Enough for Love by Robert A. Heinlein
  • The Constitution of the Human Being by Max Scheler
  • On Feeling, Knowing, and Valuing: Selected Writings by Max Scheler
  • The Complete Stories by Franz Kafka
  • Selected Philosophical Essays by Max Scheler
  • Our Mutual Friend by Charles Dickens
  • The Perennial Philosophy by Aldous Huxley
  • Reform or Revolution & Other Writings (Books on History, Political & Social Science) by Rosa Luxemburg
  • David Copperfield by Charles Dickens
  • The Human Condition by Hannah Arendt
  • On Individuality and Social Forms by Georg Simmel
  • Gargantua and Pantagruel by Francois Rabelais
  • Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind by Yuval Noah Harari
  • Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow by Yuval Noah Harari
  • The Eustace Diamonds by Anthony Trollope
  • The Epic of Gilgamesh by Unknown
  • Descriptive Psychology by Franz Brentano
  • The Idea of Nature by R.G. Collingwood
  • The Complete Essays by Michel de Montaigne
  • Science and the Modern World by Alfred North Whitehead
  • Adventures of Ideas by Alfred North Whitehead
  • Joseph Andrews by Henry Fielding
  • The Conscious Mind: In Search of a Fundamental Theory by David J. Chalmers
  • Naming and Necessity by Saul A. Kripke
  • Descartes' Error: Emotion, Reason and the Human Brain by Antonio Damasio
  • Damasio's Error and Descartes' Truth: An Inquiry into Consciousness, Metaphysics, and Epistemology by Andrew Gluck
  • The Tree of Knowledge: The Biological Roots of Human Understanding by Humberto R. Maturana
  • The Psychology of Intelligence by Jean Piaget
  • De Anima (On the Soul) by Aristotle
  • Philosophy of Existence by Karl Jaspers
  • Story of Psychology, The by Morton Hunt
  • The Origin and Goal of History by Karl Jaspers
  • Eros and Civilization: A Philosophical Inquiry into Freud by Herbert Marcuse
_db January 01, 2022 at 00:32 #637437
My 2021 readings in no particular order, though there are some omissions that I don't remember at the moment. Favorites are in bold:

Fiction:

  • Of Mice and Men, John Steinbeck
  • The Road, Cormac McCarthy
  • All Quiet on the Western Front, Erich Maria Remarque
  • Lord of the Flies, William Golding
  • Animal Farm, George Orwell
  • Brave New World, Alduous Huxley
  • We, Yevgeny Zamyatin
  • The Iron Heel, Jack London
  • The Handmaid’s Tale, Margaret Atwood
  • It Can’t Happen Here, Sinclaire Lewis
  • The Plot Against America, Philip Roth
  • Darkness at Noon, Arthur Koestler
  • The Drowned World, J. G. Ballard
  • A Clockwork Orange, Anthony Burgess
  • Neuromancer, William Gibson
  • Starship Troopers, Robert Hein
  • Across Realtime, Vernor Vinge
  • Journey to the End of the Night, Louis-Ferdinand Céline
  • Death on the Installment Plan, Louis-Ferdinand Céline
  • Castle to Castle, Louis-Ferdinand Céline
  • Blood Meridian, Cormac McCarthy
  • Treblinka, Jean-Francois Steiner


Nonfiction:

  • Against the Grain, James C. Scott
  • The True Believer, Eric Hoffer
  • Technological Slavery, Ted Kaczynski
  • Anti-Tech Revolution, Ted Kaczynski
  • A Short History of Progress, Ronald Wright
  • Lifespan, David Sinclair
  • SCUM Manifesto, Valerie Solanas
  • The Murder of Professor Schlick; The Rise and Fall of the Vienna Circle, David Edmonds
  • Inside the Third Reich, Albert Speer
  • The Good Old Days”; The Holocaust as Seen by Its Perpetrators and Bystanders, Ernst Klee et al
  • On Disobedience, Erich Fromm
  • Obedience to Authority, Stanley Milgram
  • Into That Darkness, Gitta Sereny


In-progress:

  • Kant’s Transcendental Idealism, Henry Allison
  • The Critique of Pure Reason, Kant
  • The Technological Society, Jacques Ellul
  • The Civilization of the Middle Ages, Norman Cantor
  • Hitler’s Furies; German Women in the Nazi Killing Fields, Wendy Lower
  • White Fragility; Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism, Robin Diangelo
  • Overthrown; America’s Century of Regime Change from Hawaii to Iraq, Stephen Kinzer
  • Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka; The Operation Reinhard Death Camps, Yitzhak Arad
  • Count Zero, William Gibson


The major themes were:

  • Dystopian, post-apocalyptic fiction
  • Philosophy of technology
  • Kant
  • Holocaust studies
  • Céline


I will likely continue with these themes next year.
180 Proof January 02, 2022 at 03:13 #637790
January readings 2022

Spinoza's Religion, Clare Carlisle
Sounding Out Semantics, R.J. Mott
Against Elections, David Van Reybrouck

re-reading

Understanding and Explanation: A Transcendental-Pragmatic Perspective, Karl-Otto Apel
Streetlight January 02, 2022 at 11:24 #637875
New Years reading:

User image

Leo Panitch and Sam Gindin - The Making of Global Capitalism: The Political Economy of American Empire
180 Proof January 02, 2022 at 12:42 #637883
Reply to StreetlightX Yeah, I suppose Capital & Ideology (T. Piketty) isn't 'suitable reading' at the beach ... :smirk:
Streetlight January 02, 2022 at 12:58 #637886
Reply to 180 Proof Anything's beach reading if you have some shade!
180 Proof January 02, 2022 at 13:03 #637887
_db January 02, 2022 at 20:02 #637984
Quoting StreetlightX
The Making of Global Capitalism: The Political Economy of American Empire


Quoting 180 Proof
Against Elections, David Van Reybrouck


Put both on my to-reads, they look interesting.
Maw January 02, 2022 at 20:07 #637988
Quoting StreetlightX
Anything's beach reading if you have some shade!


Waves look good hope you got some body surfing in
Shawn January 03, 2022 at 00:27 #638064
Reading an old one and no longer taken seriously.

The Price of Inequality by Joseph Stiglitz

Sadly, none of which really gathered too much in effect in policies or mandates against reckless market behavior.
john27 January 03, 2022 at 01:23 #638086
Reading:

Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
Baden January 03, 2022 at 01:53 #638098
Roadside Picnic - Arkady and Boris Strugatsky
Maw January 03, 2022 at 02:04 #638099
By the way I was curious to rediscover older reading list of mine from years back (obviously this thread only goes back to 2015) and was able to dig up the original Currently Read thread from 2014, for those interested.
_db January 03, 2022 at 21:37 #638343
Anarchism and Other Essays, Emma Goldman
Maw January 04, 2022 at 15:34 #638658
Critique of Commodity Aesthetics: Appearance, Sexuality, and Advertising in Capitalist Society by W.F Haug
praxis January 04, 2022 at 18:08 #638714
A Long Petal of the Sea by Isabel Allende. She never disappoints.
Pantagruel January 05, 2022 at 12:07 #639020
Reply to _db From your list you might enjoy The Forever War, if you haven't read it already.
180 Proof January 05, 2022 at 12:13 #639023
Pantagruel January 05, 2022 at 12:35 #639031
Reply to 180 Proof I first read this shortly after the book came out. When I was eleven I found it picking through the grown-up side in the library. Re-reading the wikipedia, I see that might have been an abridged version, so I just ordered a copy from Amazon. This is hands down my favourite science-fiction novel.
180 Proof January 05, 2022 at 13:28 #639043
Reply to Pantagruel Same here. I'd already been in the thrall of 2001: A Space Odyssey (replay of the movie every New Year's Eve in the 1970s) for years when I'd first read The Forever War, which in my 12 year old mind was an extension of Kubrick's masterpiece (I wouldn't catch up with AC Clarke's "parallel" novel until my late teens). When Full Metal Jacket came out in the mid-'80s, I'd realized then that that movie (which I also love) was, for all intents and purposes, Kubrick's adaptation of Joe Haldeman's "relativistic" novel. Last I heard, Ridley Scott had the film rights to the book ...
Pantagruel January 05, 2022 at 13:30 #639044
Reply to 180 Proof
:up:
Yes, there was a lot of talk about the film production a few years back. I've been holding my breath.
New2K2 January 05, 2022 at 21:38 #639214
Started Hagakure (The Book of the Samurai or Hidden in Leaves) and its exactly what I would have wanted after The Zurau Aphorisms. Just starting but I find it interesting if outdated in its version of selflessness. Its arguments for abandoning the ego and facing each day "ready to die".

Not suicidally, I'm not doing it justice, but the opening aphorism touches on the idea that dying without leaving an impact is terrible and disagrees with it.
_db January 06, 2022 at 05:40 #639301
Maw January 06, 2022 at 06:42 #639332
I do love 2001 A Space Odyssey, but Barry Lyndon is Kubrick's best imo
Maw January 06, 2022 at 06:44 #639334
That said since Covid I've started a tradition of Kurosawa's Seven Samurai on NYE
Streetlight January 06, 2022 at 08:05 #639352
@Maw - OK, quickie reviews of Smith's Imperialism and Suwandi's Value Chains: basically both books are really good compliments to one another. Smith's is very much a book on economics: its primary concern is with prevailing economic measures (GDP, Purchasing Power Parity, Productivity, Value-Added, Unit Labour Costs, etc), and doing deep dives into each of them to show how they obscure the enormous amount of productivity that happens in the global South, only to attribute it all to the global North. It's basically showing contemporary economic measures to be accounting tricks, all of which entrench and perpetuate the divide between North and South. It's alot of numbers, as well as the (deliberately) flawed methodologies behind those numbers. Pretty technical and I had to read it almost twice over. Smith's ultimate concern is with the question of 'value', and showing how contemporary imperialism can be can be understood in terms of Marx's theory of value.

The big distinction that he makes - which is the thing that I think is going to leave a lasting impression on me, no matter how much else I forget - is that between value created and value captured. For him, the North captures value, even as it is created in the South. It's this distinction that is papered over in bourgeois economics, which only has an eye for value-added as a matter of exchange rather than production. It literally does not have the conceptual capacity to make this distinction. The other thing it really drove home to me was just how novel the shift of global production to the South has been. I've been so used to hearing about production in developing countries that I never considered just how contemporary this has been - I mean, we're talking in the last twenty years, on unimaginable scales. Any attempt to come to grips with modern capitalism without recognizing this shift is going to come up short. It's not an easy read and it's a bit dry in places, but it is incredibly comprehensive and massively well researched.

Suwandi's book shifts the focus from economics to sociology - her study is a study in control. It looks at the mechanisms by which control is exerted by the North on the South, and busts myths about globalization being a matter of decentralization. Decision making happens in the North, no matter how much production has shifted to the South, which remains utterly dependant. The complementary side of that is her focus on labor practices - how this control actually plays itself out on the factory floor: the deskilling of workers, their 'flexibilization', the lack of bargaining power, etc. The crowning chapter is her fieldwork in a pair of Indonesian factories, where she details a few interviews she has with factory executives, and shows how much it's the imperatives from elsewhere that govern work on the ground. It's alot more qualitative than Smith's quantitative approach (and alot easier to read), and the two together really paint a nice (and depressing) picture of how contemporary imperialism functions.

Both are also pretty hostile to some other Marxist takes (like David Harvey), which reckon that imperialism either isn't such a big deal any more, or that it takes place outside the capital relation (through sheer violence and cohesion, etc). Both show nicely show imperialism isn't some extrinsic force to capitalism, but that it's central to it's function. Given that domestic markets in the North have been more or less saturated, and it's easier just to move capital out of the North than to attempt to drive down worker wages and standards (further than they have been), the shift in production is necessary for capitalism, not just some corollary. The big lesson for me is that imperialism needs to join the list which includes the explosion of finance, the reliance on real estate, basement low interest rates, and private equity and privatization, as among the major pathologies of contemporary capitalism. The latter issues are so often debated about in the West (because they are more 'tangible' for 'us'), but you hardly hear about the former (I'm guilty of this). Yet in terms of the sheer numbers of people affected, imperialism is probably the most damaging of them all.
180 Proof January 06, 2022 at 22:28 #639591
fdrake January 06, 2022 at 22:44 #639596
Quoting StreetlightX
The big distinction that he makes - which is the thing that I think is going to leave a lasting impression on me, no matter how much else I forget - is that between value created and value captured. For him, the North captures value, even as it is created in the South. It's this distinction that is papered over in bourgeois economics, which only has an eye for value-added as a matter of exchange rather than production.


Do you think the division between political north and south tracks the division between the two sides of 'profit upon alienation' in Theories of Surplus Value? And furthermore that profit upon alienation is strictly a redistributive mechanism of value, rather than a creation of value.
Manuel January 06, 2022 at 23:44 #639623
Nearly finished with Locke's Essay. This last bit is taxing, as he gets quite repetitive towards the end.

But, having said that, damn, what an impressive piece of work. Most of it holds up remarkably well 400 years later. Surely worth the time investment, I'm a huge fan now.

If my brain doesn't melt when I'm done, next up is:

Hume's Treatise.

Currently Reading:

Brunists Day of Wrath by Robert Coover.
Maw January 07, 2022 at 00:00 #639628
Reply to StreetlightX Very interesting, thanks for the concise review, I'll have to add them both to my list!
Streetlight January 07, 2022 at 15:41 #639857
Quoting fdrake
Do you think the division between political north and south tracks the division between the two sides of 'profit upon alienation' in Theories of Surplus Value? And furthermore that profit upon alienation is strictly a redistributive mechanism of value, rather than a creation of value.


Yes, but if I understand correctly, Smith is interested in the particular form in which profit upon alienation takes under imperialism. To the degree that profit upon alienation is redistributive, he notes that Marx outlined three such ways in which such redistribution could be maximized: by lengthening the working day, by increasing productivity, or by deceasing wages. Smith contends that Marx only examined the first two mechanisms at any length, because he (Marx) figured the labour market would always equalize wages via competition anyway - but he never contended that capital would go HAM in restricting the free movement of labour, which makes the third mechanism particularly relevant in the conceptualization of imperialism. It's worth quoting Smith on this point actually:

"Marx treated divergence of wages as the result of temporary or contingent factors that ceaselessly mobile capital and labor would erode over time, and which could be safely excluded from analysis, as he made clear in Capital III: “important as the study of frictions [local obstacles obstructing the equalization of wages] is for any specialist work on wages, they are still accidental and inessential as far as the general investigation of capitalist production is concerned and can therefore be ignored." This exclusion from consideration of systematic divergences of wages from a common average, implying the exclusion of divergences in the value of labor-power and the rate of exploitation, applies to the whole of Capital.

Marx’s level of abstraction is clearly inappropriate for our task. Study of workers’ status in labor markets and their mobility across borders reveals that, in today’s imperialist world, the condition of equality between workers is profoundly and shockingly violated; and ... global competition has not produced any measurable progress toward the international equalization of real wages—on the contrary, overall wage dispersion has increased during the neoliberal era. Neoliberal globalization has greatly relaxed restrictions on the mobility of capital across national borders, but there has been no such relaxation of the free movement of labor—on the contrary, imperialist governments are responding to increasing migration pressure by militarizing their borders and criminalizing migrant workers".

To that degree, what Smith calls 'global labour arbitrage' is the imperialist form which profit upon alienation takes in contemporary capitalism. The redistribution becomes geographic - extensive and 'horizontal', as it were - rather than intensive and 'vertical' between capital and labour. It's super interesting.
fdrake January 08, 2022 at 16:43 #640157
Quoting StreetlightX
Yes, but if I understand correctly, Smith is interested in the particular form in which profit upon alienation takes under imperialism. To the degree that profit upon alienation is redistributive, he notes that Marx outlined three such ways in which such redistribution could be maximized: by lengthening the working day, by increasing productivity, or by deceasing wages. Smith contends that Marx only examined the first two mechanisms at any length, because he (Marx) figured the labour market would always equalize wages via competition anyway - but he never contended that capital would go HAM in restricting the free movement of labour, which makes the third mechanism particularly relevant in the conceptualization of imperialism. It's worth quoting Smith on this point actually


Super interesting, thank you.
Pantagruel January 09, 2022 at 14:44 #640449
Discipline & Punish
by Michel Foucault
_db January 09, 2022 at 19:21 #640536
Hitler's Furies: German Women in the Nazi Killing Fields, Wendy Lower
Maw January 12, 2022 at 23:45 #642092
Time, Capitalism and Alienation. A Socio-Historical Inquiry into the Making of Modern Time by Jonathan Martineau
180 Proof January 15, 2022 at 17:51 #643470
Coming Through Slaughter, Michael Ondaatje
How Civil Wars Start, Barbara F. Walter
Jamal January 19, 2022 at 08:12 #645029
Quoting Baden
Roadside Picnic - Arkady and Boris Strugatsky


What did you think? I thought I was a fan of theirs but since I read this and Hard to be a God a few years ago, I've forgotten everything about them. Could be the problem was me, I don't know.

Recently and currently:

Piranesi, Susanna Clarke
The Long Goodbye, Raymond Chandler
The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay, Michael Chabon
Noble Dust January 19, 2022 at 08:50 #645035
Quoting john27
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?


Any thoughts? Have you read other PKD?

Quoting Baden
Reply to jamalrob Roadside Picnic - Arkady and Boris Strugatsky


Same question to you both. Any thoughts? I didn't love it, but I knew going in that it would be quite different than Tarkovsky's Stalker.

I'm currently reading The Penultimate Truth by Philip K. Dick.
Jamal January 19, 2022 at 08:56 #645039
Quoting Noble Dust
Same question to you both. Any thoughts?


No thoughts from me, as I can't even remember it. How much that's forgettableness, and how much forgetfulness, I'm not sure.
Noble Dust January 19, 2022 at 09:01 #645042
Reply to jamalrob

I find that interesting because, while I didn't love it, I certainly didn't find it forgettable. Maybe that has more to do with my own weird taste in fiction. It reminded me of PKD's "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?", quite ironically, as that was just mentioned above by @john27.
Jamal January 19, 2022 at 09:04 #645044
Reply to Noble Dust I like weird too, so maybe it's the forgetfulness after all.
Noble Dust January 19, 2022 at 09:06 #645046
Reply to jamalrob

Maybe. Are you into/have you read Philip K. Dick?
Jamal January 19, 2022 at 09:09 #645049
Reply to Noble Dust My relationship with Dick is ... complicated. I think highly of Castle and Sheep, but after trying some others I just got fed up with the bad writing. He wrote in a hurry and it shows. I know, I know, we should read him for the imagination, the ideas, and so on. I'll probably come back to him one day.
Noble Dust January 19, 2022 at 09:16 #645050
Reply to jamalrob

Fair enough; I usually begin with the assumption that people find him weird at best. If anything, I probably have an unhealthy obsession with his work. The only question I'll ask is have you read UBIK?
Jamal January 19, 2022 at 09:30 #645054
Reply to Noble Dust Ubik, no. That's one of his maddest isn't it?
Baden January 19, 2022 at 09:57 #645066
Reply to jamalrob

I agree with @Noble Dust, didn't love it. Preferred Stalker (I wasn't expecting the book to be so different).

Quoting jamalrob
but after trying some others I just got fed up with the bad writing


Yes, I remember just giving up on one of his books for this reason. Haven't read one since.
Baden January 19, 2022 at 09:59 #645067
Quoting Noble Dust
I probably have an unhealthy obsession with his work.


What's his best one, you think? I might try again.
frank January 19, 2022 at 18:04 #645227
[I] How Dead Languages Work [/I] Coulter George

He says different languages are like cuisines and he discusses the sapir whorf hypothesis.
Noble Dust January 19, 2022 at 21:16 #645317
Reply to jamalrob

Yup. It's surreal, hilarious, and terrifying. A mind fuck.

Reply to Baden

To me UBIK is the best, but it's maybe an acquired taste. I would say The Man In The High Castle is a good intro to his style and themes, although it's a bit slow.

And weirdly, when I first started reading him I also was annoyed by what I thought was mediocre writing, but now I don't even notice it because I find his worlds so engrossing.
Baden January 19, 2022 at 21:23 #645320
Reply to Noble Dust

Yeah, there's great storytellers who aren't very good writers and vice versa. When I read plot summaries of his stuff I'm blown away.
Srap Tasmaner January 19, 2022 at 21:46 #645326
Reply to jamalrob

Ubik is excellent. I'm probably in the minority wishing the last sentence wasn't there.

I've read a lot, but not everything, and I love him not for the what-is-real? stuff but just for the humanity. Somewhere he said that his typical novel is a guy who loses his job, stops at the bar on the way home to drown his sorrows, comes home drunk and out-of-work so his wife leaves him, and *then* aliens land in the front yard.

He was a haunted man.
Manuel January 19, 2022 at 22:28 #645344
Reply to Srap Tasmaner

WHAT? :scream: :scream:

That last sentence made me realize, I never came down from my high.

Dick is absolutely fantastic. But his prose is not amazing. Though I think that in A Scanner Darkly, he steps it up considerably.
Noble Dust January 19, 2022 at 23:26 #645370
Quoting Manuel
Though I think that in A Scanner Darkly, he steps it up considerably.


Ahhh, that’s next on my list, although I feel like I should read some earlier work first. My brother recommended Martian Time Slip.
Noble Dust January 19, 2022 at 23:28 #645371
Quoting Srap Tasmaner
I've read a lot, but not everything, and I love him not for the what-is-real? stuff but just for the humanity.


For sure, although I’m a fan of both. Any favorites for you?
Srap Tasmaner January 19, 2022 at 23:35 #645375
Reply to Noble Dust Both good.

Scanner is really special. That and Radio Free Albemuth are the most autobiographical I guess.

Reply to Noble Dust

I loved Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch. Has some of that Alfred Bester dazzle to it, and very Phildickian themes. Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said. Another early one, Clans of the Alphabet Moon. Plus all the usual ones we've already mentioned. Only stuff I've deliberately stayed away from is VALIS. There's an edited version of the Exegesis out now, but I won't be reading that I think.

I've never been even slightly disappointed by any novel or short story of his. They used to be hard to find so my collection is slightly random. Feels like I'm forgetting an important one but I can't think of it
Srap Tasmaner January 19, 2022 at 23:37 #645377
Reply to Noble Dust

There's also at least one collection of interviews available and it's good
Manuel January 19, 2022 at 23:48 #645381
Reply to Noble Dust

I didn't pay (much) attention to order, he has like 8 -10 classics and then everybody has a few personal favorites, usually not on the list.

I kid not, the most reading I've ever done, was reading 14 of his books in a row, in 3 weeks. In my peak I was averaging a book a day.

I would not recommend it, I don't remember Martian Time Slip too well, nor Dr. Bloodmoney.

Flow My Tears, Maze of Death, Palmer Eldricht, were also amazing.

The underrated charm from me would be The Game Players of Titan.

/End rant
Noble Dust January 20, 2022 at 00:00 #645385
Quoting Srap Tasmaner
I loved Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch.


I did too, although it was a bit overwhelming and sort left me with a sickly feeling for some reason.

Quoting Srap Tasmaner
Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said.


I know this is a perennial favorite, but it's the only one so far I didn't really care for that much. The ending left me cold I think.

VALIS I thought was...good. Obviously it's very bizarre. I actually really enjoyed The Divine Invasion, which is a very loose sequel I guess. As to the Exegesis, I have a copy and have read about 100 pages...it's a pretty dizzying glimpse inside his brain. As you said, a haunted man. If I'm being honest, I share some of his mystical preoccupations. It's hard for me to look away.

Quoting Manuel
I kid not, the most reading I've ever done, was reading 14 of his books in a row, in 3 weeks. In my peak I was averaging a book a day.


:lol: Sounds about right. I'm sure you're not the only person to have done this.

Quoting Manuel
The underrated charm from me would be The Game Players of Titan.


Noted. :up:
Srap Tasmaner January 20, 2022 at 00:18 #645387
Quoting Noble Dust
his mystical preoccupations


Some of the novels amble along doing this and that, and then like 2/3 of the way through veer sharply into religious territory. Like he's really not able to control it. But then he saw a giant metal face in the sky, so ...

I should read more. It's been too long. Maybe I'll try the VALIS books after all.

I think really I just value his company. Like Bill Hicks. Just another confused guy you meet on the road, and he makes the journey more bearable.
Noble Dust January 20, 2022 at 00:40 #645400
Quoting Srap Tasmaner
Just another confused guy you meet on the road, and he makes the journey more bearable.


No doubt.
Srap Tasmaner January 20, 2022 at 00:47 #645401
Reply to Noble Dust Reply to Manuel

I'll throw in a book not by Saint Phil that's nearly forgotten and strangely out-of-print: Rogue Moon by Algis Budrys.
Noble Dust January 20, 2022 at 00:59 #645405
Reply to Srap Tasmaner

Woah, thanks, that sounds bizarre and awesome. Gonna see if I can find a copy. I'll do you one more: A Voyage To Arcturus by David Lindsay. If people think Dick is a bad writer, get ready for Lindsay. But it's a strange, addictive story that you won't forget anytime soon.
180 Proof January 20, 2022 at 02:02 #645423
PKD. Very provocative storyteller, but mediocre writer. Maybe if I'd read him in high school or before I might have acquired a taste (or nostalgia) for his dull prose ...
Manuel January 20, 2022 at 02:16 #645430
Yes, his prose is meh, but again, in A Scanner Darkly, he steps it up, I remember this quote, which is fantastic, I think:

“What does a scanner see? he asked himself. I mean, really see? Into the head? Down into the heart? Does a passive infrared scanner like they used to use or a cube-type holo-scanner like they use these days, the latest thing, see into me - into us - clearly or darkly? I hope it does, he thought, see clearly, because I can't any longer these days see into myself. I see only murk. Murk outside; murk inside. I hope, for everyone's sake, the scanners do better. Because, he thought, if the scanner sees only darkly, the way I myself do, then we are cursed, cursed again and like we have been continually, and we'll wind up dead this way, knowing very little and getting that little fragment wrong too.”
Noble Dust January 20, 2022 at 02:58 #645444
Reply to Manuel

:up: See, to me I do consider that good writing. As @Srap Tasmaner was saying, PKD has a way of eliciting humanity. To me, his writing is coarse and unadorned, but this is what makes it human and affecting.
Maw January 20, 2022 at 03:45 #645461
Just reading some more Hegel right now
Srap Tasmaner January 20, 2022 at 05:41 #645501
Quoting Noble Dust
A Voyage To Arcturus by David Lindsay


I know of it, of course, but I’ve never read it, so thanks for the endorsement!
Noble Dust January 20, 2022 at 06:56 #645513
Reply to Srap Tasmaner

Just do it! I'm sure you can find a good copy on abebooks for like $5.
Noble Dust January 20, 2022 at 07:02 #645514
Reply to Srap Tasmaner

By the way, I have Rogue Moon on order ($6 total) from abebooks. :up: Always in search of recs for sci-fi that scratchs the PKD itch, i.e. stories about people dealing with weird shit, rather than hardcore sci-fi.
Noble Dust January 20, 2022 at 07:07 #645517
Reply to 180 Proof

I read my first PKD after college, and loved it. Different smokes for different smokers...
Srap Tasmaner January 20, 2022 at 07:14 #645520
Reply to Noble Dust Yeah Rogue Moon is a little like that. Not quite ordinary people, but quite definitely people, with their own personal issues, and the book’s mainly about that. Which is why I thought of it — and because it’s curious that people don’t know it these days since it used to always be on “All Time Best SF Novels” lists. I don’t understand why it’s been out of print for so long, and it was presumably Budrys’s decision. (I only know one other book of his, Michaelmas, which I also loved.)

(An unrelated case of being — less inexplicably — out-of-print is Cordwainer Smith. Whole different deal from Dick, or from anyone. Really, anyone. Of all publishers, Baen did a two-volume paperback set several years ago, but it’s already gone. Worth hunting down. Robert Silverberg used to say that the only consolation he could find for Cordwainer Smith writing as he did was that he was actually from the far future.)
Noble Dust January 20, 2022 at 07:38 #645527
Quoting Srap Tasmaner
Yeah Rogue Man


Rogue Moon, right?

Quoting Srap Tasmaner
Cordwainer Smith


Heard of him, but haven't read. More stuff added to the list.
Srap Tasmaner January 20, 2022 at 07:42 #645530
Quoting Noble Dust
Rogue Man
— Srap Tasmaner

Rogue Moon, right?


Heh. Yes, you ordered the right book. I can’t even blame autocorrect, but I should’ve gone to sleep hours ago.
Noble Dust January 20, 2022 at 07:43 #645531
Jamal January 20, 2022 at 07:48 #645534
Quoting Srap Tasmaner
I only know one other book of his, Michaelmas, which I also loved


I read and enjoyed Budrys's Who? after being haunted since childhood by the memory of the film adaptation starring Elliot Gould.
john27 January 20, 2022 at 15:03 #645620
Quoting Noble Dust
Any thoughts? Have you read other PKD?


I haven't finished it yet, but his writing style is interesting, to say the least.
Pantagruel January 22, 2022 at 13:38 #646420
The Future of the Mind: The Scientific Quest to Understand, Enhance, and Empower the Mind
by Michio Kaku
_db January 22, 2022 at 17:50 #646496
Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland, Christopher Browning
Anti-Intellectualism in American Life, Richard Hofstadter
T Clark January 22, 2022 at 20:16 #646549
Quoting jamalrob
The Long Goodbye, Raymond Chandler


Did you ever see the film by Robert Altman with Elliot Gould? I guess a lot of people don't like it because of it's unconventional Phillip Marlow, but it's one of my favorites. I've always liked Gould.
Jamal January 22, 2022 at 20:43 #646565
Reply to T Clark Yes, one of my favourites too. I don't mind that he's different from Chandler's Marlowe.
Pantagruel January 23, 2022 at 17:58 #646822
Conceptual Issues in Psychology
by Elizabeth R. Valentine
Zolenskify January 23, 2022 at 18:58 #646846
Death of a Salesman ayeeeeee
_db January 25, 2022 at 03:32 #647318
Money and Power, Jacques Ellul
universeness January 25, 2022 at 14:06 #647458
Anyone read Caesar's Messian (The roman conspiracy to invent Jesus) by Joseph Atwill or
Creating Christ (How Roman Emperors invented Christianity) by J.S Valliant and W. Fahy?

OR

The personal memoirs of U.S Grant?
Maw January 25, 2022 at 16:43 #647507
The Ego and The Id by Freud (rereading)
Jamal January 28, 2022 at 02:08 #648485
Pale Fire by Vladimir Nabokov
Manuel January 28, 2022 at 02:55 #648504
A Treatise on Human Nature - David Hume

The Five Books of (Robert) Moses - Arthur Nersesian
Pierre-Normand January 28, 2022 at 05:23 #648534
The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity, David Graeber and David Wengrow
Streetlight January 28, 2022 at 10:18 #648564
Wolfgang Streeck - How will Capitalism End?: Essays on a Failing System
Mark Blyth - Austerity: The History of a Dangerous Idea
Tiqqun - Preliminary Materials for a Theory of the Young-Girl
Tiqqun - Theory of Bloom
Maw January 29, 2022 at 16:52 #648990
Beyond the Pleasure Principle by Freud
T Clark January 29, 2022 at 16:58 #648991
Ok. Ok. I'm taking another run at "Gormenghast."
Jamal January 29, 2022 at 17:09 #648995
Jamal January 30, 2022 at 14:39 #649331
Inherent Vice by Thomas Pynchon

_db February 01, 2022 at 04:04 #650041
The Rape of Nanking, Iris Chang
Pantagruel February 02, 2022 at 22:27 #650625
The Forever War
by Joe Haldeman
T Clark February 02, 2022 at 23:03 #650629
Quoting Pantagruel
The Forever War


One of my favorite military science fiction books. Clever and well-written.
Pantagruel February 02, 2022 at 23:27 #650639
Reply to T Clark
:up:
My favourite overall sci-fi.
180 Proof February 03, 2022 at 00:23 #650653
Quoting Pantagruel
The Forever War
by Joe Haldeman

Excellent! Enjoy it.
Bret Bernhoft February 03, 2022 at 03:30 #650681
I'm currently reading "Beyond Earth's Horizon", as written by Anthony Fucilla.
Maw February 03, 2022 at 04:23 #650694
Civilization and Its Discontents by Sigmund Freud
Jamal February 03, 2022 at 06:12 #650730
The Sunken Land Begins to Rise Again by M. John Harrison
Pantagruel February 03, 2022 at 11:15 #650815
Reply to 180 Proof
:up: :up:
Pantagruel February 03, 2022 at 11:16 #650816
Quoting Maw
Civilization and Its Discontents by Sigmund Freud

A classic. Enjoy.
T Clark February 05, 2022 at 16:51 #651623
Just finished Collingwood's "The Principles of Art." I've been thinking about aesthetics a lot recently. I think I finally wore out metaphysics. The book was interesting and helpful. Maybe I'll put together a new discussion about it.

Besides being insightful, by which I mean he see's things in a way similar to me, the book also fulfills my primary requirement for a philosophical work - it's short.
Hanover February 05, 2022 at 19:01 #651682
Quoting T Clark
Besides being insightful, by which I mean he see's things in a way similar to me, the book also fulfills my primary requirement for a philosophical work - it's short.


The book you're referencing is 350 pages, so it's not exactly short. There is a book on Amazon claiming to be Collingwood's "The Principles of Art," but it's actually a 20 or so page abridged version.

You've still got 330 pages to go.
180 Proof February 05, 2022 at 20:00 #651701
Reply to T Clark Since you favor "short books on aesthetics" and self-identify, IIRC, as a pragmatist, I recommend John Dewey's Art as Experience. An even shorter read, at the intersection of aesthetics & metaphysics, is Language and Myth by Ernst Cassirer. Both are more or less Collingwood's peers though they significantly differ in emphases from one another.
T Clark February 05, 2022 at 20:09 #651704
Quoting Hanover
The book you're referencing is 350 pages, so it's not exactly short. There is a book on Amazon claiming to be Collingwood's "The Principles of Art," but it's actually a 20 or so page abridged version.

You've still got 330 pages to go.


There you go. I was feeling all virtuous and wise and you ruin everything. The long version is not available electronically. Part of my Taoist faith is that books that can't be read in electronic versions do not exist. "The text that's not on Kindle is not the etermal Text." That's what Lao Tzu would have said.
T Clark February 05, 2022 at 20:10 #651705
Quoting 180 Proof
Since you favor "short books on aesthetics" and self-identify, IIRC, as a pragmatist, I recommend John Dewey's Art as Experience. An even shorter read, at the intersection of aesthetics & metaphysics, is Language and Myth by Ernst Cassirer. Both are more or less Collingwood's peers though they significantly differ in emphases from one another.


Thanks. I'll take a look.
Hanover February 05, 2022 at 21:06 #651722
Quoting T Clark
Thanks. I'll take a look.


As in, you'll look at the book, but not necessarily read it. Instead of saying, "I didn't read the book, I saw the movie," you're saying, "I saw the book, not the movie."
T Clark February 06, 2022 at 01:52 #651828
Quoting Hanover
As in, you'll look at the book, but not necessarily read it. Instead of saying, "I didn't read the book, I saw the movie," you're saying, "I saw the book, not the movie."


I've been studying speed reading, so I already got the books and read them. It took me ten minutes. They involve philosophy.
Photios February 06, 2022 at 03:07 #651855
Reply to jamalrob

Ravenna, by Judith Herrin
L'éléphant February 06, 2022 at 03:18 #651859


Search for a Naturalistic World View - Shimony
Snakes Alive February 06, 2022 at 03:27 #651862
T. C. Boyle – The Tortilla Curtain
Kazuo Ishiguro – The Buried Knight
Virginia Woolf – To the Lighthouse
Tommy Orange – There There
Jamal February 06, 2022 at 14:43 #652061
Cold Hand in Mine by Robert Aickman
T Clark February 06, 2022 at 17:59 #652115
Reply to jamalrob

I looked Aickman up on Wikipedia. He sounds like an interesting writer.
Jamal February 06, 2022 at 18:04 #652118
Reply to T Clark Yes, his stories are pleasingly unsettling.
Maw February 06, 2022 at 22:43 #652204
Écrits by Jacques Lacan
_db February 07, 2022 at 02:38 #652274
Reply to Pantagruel Same here! :100:
Streetlight February 07, 2022 at 02:42 #652277
Reply to Maw Jesus, good luck.
Snakes Alive February 08, 2022 at 19:04 #652691
Chester Himes – If He Hollers Let Him Go
Joan Didion – Play It As It Lays
José Antonio Villarreal – Pocho
John Steinbeck – Tortilla Flat
Ansiktsburk February 08, 2022 at 21:38 #652735
Beyond Good and Evil, Nietzsche and The Sun Sister, Lucinda Riley.
Maw February 09, 2022 at 05:04 #652863
Reply to StreetlightX I'll never look at a mirror the same way again
Pantagruel February 09, 2022 at 11:42 #652921
The Sociology of Knowledge: Toward a Deeper Understanding of the History of Ideas
by Werner Stark

edit:

It is only through the conversation of man with man that ideas come into existence. Two human beings are as necessary for the generation of the human mind as they are for the human body
~Feuerbach

Interesting introductory quote; I'd agree with this: Consciousness is essentially interactive.
Pantagruel February 10, 2022 at 19:35 #653389
Jude the Obscure
by Thomas Hardy
Photios February 10, 2022 at 19:43 #653391
Reply to Pantagruel

I love returning to his novels once and a while. One of my favorite writers.

Pantagruel February 10, 2022 at 19:46 #653395
Reply to Photios Haven't read this one but I am a sucker for Victorian Lit in general. Thomas Carlyle and Sir Walter Scott are a couple of my new top picks from last year's reading.
T Clark February 10, 2022 at 19:59 #653398
Quoting Pantagruel
Thomas Hardy


I really like Hardy, but I've never read that one.
Photios February 10, 2022 at 20:34 #653402
Reply to T Clark
It is one of his best, IMHO. Go get a copy!
SophistiCat February 10, 2022 at 22:36 #653437
Quoting Snakes Alive
Kazuo Ishiguro – The Buried Knight


The Buried Giant, surely? (It's on my list.)

Books I read recently:

Ivan Bunin - Stories and novellas
Thomas Mann - Death in Venice and other stories
JM Coetzee - Waiting for the Barbarians
Dino Buzzati - The Tartar Steppe
Salman Rushdie - Midnight's Children
Olga Tokarczuk - The Books of Jacob - just started. This one will take a while...

Quoting Pantagruel
Jude the Obscure
by Thomas Hardy


Reply to T Clark A great read, but gloomier even than Tess, in its own way.

180 Proof February 10, 2022 at 23:27 #653440
Quoting Pantagruel
It is only through the conversation of man with man that ideas come into existence. Two human beings are as necessary for the generation of the human mind as they are for the human body
~Feuerbach

Interesting introductory quote; I'd agree with this: Consciousness is essentially interactive.

:up: :up:
Snakes Alive February 11, 2022 at 01:32 #653452
Reply to SophistiCat Yeah, the Buried Giant. I don't know why I typed it that way. It's alright, but I'm leaving it aside for now to finish some other stuff.
javi2541997 February 11, 2022 at 10:56 #653513
Japanese literature:

Seven Japanese tales by Junichiro Tanizaki.
The Temple of the Golden Pavilion by Yukio Mishima
Sputnik, sweetheart by Murakami.
A personal matter by Kenzaburo Oe

But specially dedicated to Kawabata Yasunari:


  • [i]The dancing girl of IzuKotoThe house of sleeping beautiesSnow country.[/i]

T Clark February 11, 2022 at 17:38 #653573
Quoting javi2541997
Sputnik, sweetheart by Murakami.


I read "1Q85" and really enjoyed it. Almost a fantasy but not quite. Is it magical realism? It scrambled up my mind. I keep thinking I'll read more of his work, but when I take a look, I find myself unready to jump back in to such an odd world. I'm sure I will eventually.

javi2541997 February 11, 2022 at 18:53 #653595
Reply to T Clark

It is similar but with some different tones. I think the magical realism of "Sputnik, sweetheart" is not close enough to 1Q84. Nevertheless! It has that Murakami atmosphere that you can check in most of the books: loneliness, random grils out of nowhere, Metaphysic conversations, nostalgia, etc...
T Clark February 11, 2022 at 19:46 #653621
Quoting javi2541997
It is similar but with some different tones. I think the magical realism of "Sputnik, sweetheart" is not close enough to 1Q84. Nevertheless! It has that Murakami atmosphere that you can check in most of the books: loneliness, random grils out of nowhere, Metaphysic conversations, nostalgia, etc...


I'll add it to my list. Maybe this will give me the impetus I need to read some more Murakami.
Jamal February 12, 2022 at 15:34 #653937
Mason & Dixon by Thomas Pynchon.
Hanover February 12, 2022 at 16:55 #653952
Go, Dog. Go!
_db February 12, 2022 at 22:38 #654048
Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution, Peter Kropotkin
Against Our Will: Men, Women and Rape, Susan Brownmiller
Jeromme February 14, 2022 at 09:19 #654619
Samsa in Love. Unforgettable.
Maw February 14, 2022 at 19:23 #654844
On the Reproduction of Capitalism by Louis Althusser
Manuel February 14, 2022 at 23:38 #655038
Reply to jamalrob

:clap:

Enjoy.

Quite hard but beautiful language.
Jamal February 15, 2022 at 02:14 #655124
Reply to Manuel 160 pages in and I'm finding it totally absorbing and enjoyable.
Dermot Griffin February 16, 2022 at 01:43 #655473
Currently re-reading

The Brothers Karamazov, Fyodor Dostoyevsky.

An Inquiry into the Good, Kitaro Nishida.

Love and St. Augustine, Hannah Arendt.

The Human Condition, Hannah Arendt.

Currently reading

Lots of stuff by Kierkegaard: The Present Age, The Sickness Unto Death, On the Concept of Irony, Attack Upon Christendom, Fear and Trembling along with his early journals. I’ve also been reading up on Thomism too, namely Orthodox Readings of Aquinas by Marcus Plested and Person and Act by John Paul II.
javi2541997 February 16, 2022 at 05:16 #655534
Quoting Dermot Griffin
Lots of stuff by Kierkegaard: The Present Age, The Sickness Unto Death, On the Concept of Irony, Attack Upon Christendom, Fear and Trembling


You would enjoy it :up:
Noble Dust February 16, 2022 at 06:18 #655542
A History of God - Karen Armstrong (thanks @Wayfarer)
Rogue Moon - Algis Budrys (thanks @Srap Tasmaner)
Wayfarer February 16, 2022 at 06:35 #655544
Reply to Noble Dust :up:

Platonism, Naturalism, and Mathematical Knowledge, James Robert Brown
The Radiance of Being: Dimensions of Cosmic Christianity, Stratford Caldecott
Noble Dust February 16, 2022 at 07:36 #655548
Quoting Wayfarer
The Radiance of Being: Dimensions of Cosmic Christianity, Stratford Caldecott


This sounds fascinating.
Wayfarer February 16, 2022 at 08:35 #655555
Reply to Noble Dust His is a touching story, lifelong seeker turned Catholic convert who died prematurely from cancer. Eclectic outlook and a very good writer. (He was born 5 weeks after me :fear: )
180 Proof February 16, 2022 at 09:16 #655563
February reading

When Bad Thinking Happens to Good People: How Philosophy Can Save Us from Ourselves, S. Nadler & L. Shapiro
Tom Storm February 16, 2022 at 09:20 #655564
Quoting Pantagruel
Jude the Obscure
by Thomas Hardy


A haunting and desolate novel. Don't read it if you are feeling low...
javi2541997 February 16, 2022 at 09:44 #655572
Quoting 180 Proof
When Bad Thinking Happens to Good People: How Philosophy Can Save Us from Ourselves, S. Nadler & L. Shapiro


It looks like so interesting. I going to check it out and put it on my next readings.
180 Proof February 16, 2022 at 10:09 #655579
Pantagruel February 16, 2022 at 10:17 #655585
Reply to Tom Storm
No kidding!
Streetlight February 23, 2022 at 06:20 #658128
Eric Mielants - The Origins of Capitalism and the "Rise of the West"
Colin Moores - The Making of Bourgeois Europe: Absolutism, Revolution, and the Rise of Capitalism in England, France and Germany
180 Proof February 23, 2022 at 12:52 #658202
To Be Taught, If Fortunate, Becky Chambers
Manuel February 23, 2022 at 15:34 #658252
The Philosophical Writings of Descartes Volumes I-II
Maw February 23, 2022 at 17:04 #658296
Reply to StreetlightX sounds good lemme know your thoughts
T Clark February 24, 2022 at 17:43 #658897
I've just started Lin Yutang's translation of the Tao Te Ching. I downloaded a pdf version from the web. After each verse, he includes relevant verses from the Chuang Tzu, also known as the Zhuangzi. So far, it's been really interesting and helpful. The version of this translation included on the Terrebess website (ttps://terebess.hu/english/tao/yutang.html) does not include the Chuang Tzu verses.
javi2541997 February 24, 2022 at 17:56 #658901
Quoting T Clark
After each verse, he includes relevant verses from the Chuang Tzu, also known as the Zhuangzi. So far, it's been really interesting and helpful.


Wow! It sounds so interesting indeed. Tao Te Ching needs good interpretations so if you found good notes it can help to understand it better!
180 Proof February 24, 2022 at 18:04 #658902
javi2541997 February 25, 2022 at 09:42 #659165
More Japanese works:

Sun and Steel by Yukio Mishima (?? ???)
Thousand Cranes by Yasunari Kawabata (?? ??)
A Shameful Life: (Ningen Shikkaku) by Osamu Dazai (?? ?)
180 Proof February 25, 2022 at 09:52 #659168
Pantagruel February 25, 2022 at 20:34 #659391
Reply to Tom Storm Just finished. A powerful book. In the last chapter, I forgot that I was reading for a time, I was so engrossed in the story.
Tom Storm February 25, 2022 at 22:07 #659425
Reply to Pantagruel It's an astonishing work.
Pantagruel February 25, 2022 at 23:08 #659447
Maw February 26, 2022 at 05:23 #659542
Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism by Vladimir Lenin
Deleted User February 28, 2022 at 17:32 #660988
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
T Clark February 28, 2022 at 18:54 #661027
Reply to tim wood

Interesting. Thanks.
Pantagruel March 01, 2022 at 00:04 #661145
Capitalism and Modern Social Theory: An Analysis of the Writings of Marx, Durkheim and Max Weber
by Anthony Giddens

The Mantle of Kendis-Dai (Starshield #1)
by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman
_db March 01, 2022 at 01:19 #661172
Democracy for the Few, Michael Parenti
North, Céline
Maw March 04, 2022 at 06:34 #662693
Left-Wing Melancholia: Marxism, History, and Memory by Enzo Traverso
Streetlight March 04, 2022 at 06:35 #662694
Reply to Maw !! I just picked up his new book on revolutions the other day.
_db March 05, 2022 at 18:15 #663283
Gyn/Ecology: The Metaethics of Radical Feminism, Mary Daly
Mikie March 08, 2022 at 01:25 #664201
HTML and CSS. Ninth edition. Joe Casabona.

Streetlight March 08, 2022 at 03:19 #664247
Quoting Maw
sounds good lemme know your thoughts
Finished both! So, the Mielants was not bad. Its big draw is that it's comparative across very different societies - Europe, China, India, and North Africa. Enormous undertaking, especially when packed into <180 pages. Essentially, it looks their various developmental paths in order to try and figure out why it was only in Europe that capitalism developed. His basic line is that it was only in Europe that merchants were able to gain access to state power, whereas in the other regions, the state managed to retain an autonomy from capital which prevented its proliferation. So he's (rightly) critical of the idea that the spread of markets naturally correlated with the rise of capitalism (like Wood), and he notes that it was a specifically political transformation. On the other hand, he's much more generous in locating the proliferation of capitalism in the late middle ages (~1500 or so), which is alot earlier than most commentators. The best parts of the book were his examinations of the non-European regions, especially North Africa, which I honestly have never given too much thought to. But his thesis about merchants and state-power is a bit broad-brush to me, and doesn't seem to pay enough attention to differentation of developmental paths within Europe itself.

Which, incidentally, is why I loved the Mooers book. If you've read both Davidson's How Revolutionary? and Wood's Origin, Mooers is like the perfect in-between and follow-up. Like Meilants, it's also comparative history, but intra-European: France, Germany, and England. And Mooers does this incredible juggling act where he tracks the interests of all sorts of actors within these states - peasants, bourgeoise, nobility, crown, wage-labour, bureaucracies, the state itself as an autonomous actor - and shows how they converge and diverge at various points, and give rise to different historical outcomes. Like Davidson, the subject of the book are the 'bourgeois revolutions' and their role in bringing capitalism about. Unlike Mielants, who basically pays zero attention to revolution, Mooers shows just how necessary the revolutions were in advancing the causes of capitalism, and equally as interestingly, shows how such revolutions can take place in different forms. I wish I had read this before I'd read Davidson, because it's just alot more compact and tight, and easier to track the stakes of the debates being discussed. Davidson was a bit sprawling, and because he juggles so many balls, there were times I didn't follow the significance of certain debates. After having read this I feel like I need to go back to Davidson at some point because I think I have a much firmer grasp on alot of the issues, especially the European ones. Helps that Mooers is also a Marxist, and again unlike Meilants, also engages (critically) with alot of the literature in that tradition. My biggest gripe is that I wish it had a chapter on Holland.

If you can, let me know how you find the Traverso book.

---

Anyway! Next up, and continuing the theme:

Henry Heller - The Birth of Capitalism: A 21st Century Perspective
Henry Heller - The Bourgeois Revolution in France, 1789-1815
Henry Heller - The French Revolution and Historical Materialism: Selected Essays
Jean-Pierre Vernant - The Origins of Greek Thought

Pantagruel March 08, 2022 at 22:58 #664536
The Quintessence of Socialism
by Albert Schäffle

Collectivism at its finest......
Maw March 12, 2022 at 17:32 #666049
Quoting StreetlightX
If you can, let me know how you find the Traverso book


I'm a bit mixed on it. The thesis wasn't as compact as, say, Dienstag's Pessimism: Philosophy, Ethic, Spirit; it bounces around a lot between history of left-wing political defeat, memory, the relationship, both personal and philosophical, between particular Western Marxists, imagery (movies, art), Bohemianism. And I would say that at least 25% of the material was very thinly connected to melancholia. Otherwise, some of the material was certainly interesting, but I was left wanted a lot more.

The Mooers book sounds great, I'll add it to my Verso cart.
Maw March 12, 2022 at 17:32 #666050
The Sublime Object of Ideology by Slavoj Žižek
Pantagruel March 13, 2022 at 12:55 #666335
The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity
by David Graeber, David Wengrow
Pantagruel March 13, 2022 at 16:39 #666403
Just arrived - a nice set, although I wish it didn't have the Apple Tv logo on the covers. It's been forty years since I read the original trilogy. Really looking forward to this.....

User image

180 Proof March 14, 2022 at 05:46 #666754
lll March 14, 2022 at 07:48 #666791
Joyce's Book of the Dark : Finnegans Wake
John Bishop

Strong start so far, different emphasis than my other books on FW.

James Joyce
Richard Ellman

'Read' it many years ago when too young (too much a Stephen then, not enough of a Poldy). Excellent and helpful for understanding the works.
180 Proof March 14, 2022 at 23:31 #667107
March readings

White Debt, Thomas Hardin
A Paradise Built on Hell, Rebecca Solnit
Ignorance and Imagination, Daniel Stoljar
Europe and the People Without History,
Eric Wolf
_db March 14, 2022 at 23:34 #667109
Finished Intercourse, Andrea Dworkin. Continuing my voyage through feminist literature with The Beauty Myth, Naomi Wolf.
T Clark March 15, 2022 at 00:44 #667124
Quoting Pantagruel
Just arrived - a nice set, although I wish it didn't have the Apple Tv logo on the covers. It's been forty years since I read the original trilogy.


Like you, I've only read the original three books, but for me it was about 55 years ago. They meant a lot to me. I think the realization that there could be really, really big ideas was what fascinated me.
Pantagruel March 15, 2022 at 00:48 #667126
Reply to T Clark Yes, I'm getting a lot more from the books now, a lot of deep thoughts in there. My current reading focuses heavily on the social determinants of human thought, very much in tune with "psychohistory."
_db March 23, 2022 at 01:46 #671473
The Dialectic of Sex: The Case for Feminist Revolution, Shulamith Firestone
Manuel March 23, 2022 at 03:41 #671513
Welcome to Night Vale by Joseph Fink and Jeffrey Cranor

The True Intellectual System of the Universe Volume I by Ralph Cudworth
Streetlight March 23, 2022 at 03:49 #671516
Sophie Wahnich - In Defence of the Terror: Liberty Or Death in the French Revolution
Domenico Losurdo - War and Revolution: Rethinking the Twentieth Century
Domenico Losurdo - Liberalism: A Counter-History

Quoting _db
The Dialectic of Sex: The Case for Feminist Revolution, Shulamith Firestone


Would like to hear your thoughts, when you're done.
Maw March 23, 2022 at 04:13 #671520
Quoting StreetlightX
Domenico Losurdo - Liberalism: A Counter-History


hell yes
Streetlight March 23, 2022 at 04:17 #671523
Reply to Maw It's time! :cheer: Also cheers for the write-up on Traverso. That's roughly what I've read about it too so I will probably hold off on that one for now.
_db March 28, 2022 at 03:50 #674493
Quoting StreetlightX
Would like to hear your thoughts, when you're done.


Here's a link to my goodreads review of it: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/4624457569

I didn't really like it.
_db March 28, 2022 at 04:03 #674497
Moving on to Sexual Politics, Kate Millett
180 Proof March 30, 2022 at 06:56 #675471
March-April readings

The Nature of Sympathy, Max Scheler
Formalism in Ethics and Non-Formal Ethics of Values, Max Scheler
Scheler's Ethical Personalism, Peter H. Spader
_db April 02, 2022 at 17:34 #676738
Sexual Politics has to be one of my favorite reads this year, it's engrossing, powerful, and refreshing after my disappointment in the last two feminist books I read. I'm only half-way through; it's definitely a bigger commitment, but well worth it.
Maw April 02, 2022 at 19:06 #676757
Distinction by Pierre Bourdieu
_db April 04, 2022 at 01:57 #677290
The Feminine Mystique, Betty Friedan
Noble Dust April 04, 2022 at 03:20 #677331
Re-reading The Silmarillion :brow:
javi2541997 April 06, 2022 at 11:53 #678348
[i]Confessions of a Mask[i], Yukio Mishima
[i]In Praise of Shadows[i], Jun'ichir? Tanizaki
javi2541997 April 09, 2022 at 12:25 #679641
Mizuumi/The Lake by Kawabata Yasunari (?? ??)
Streetlight April 10, 2022 at 08:13 #679891
Quoting StreetlightX
Domenico Losurdo - War and Revolution: Rethinking the Twentieth Century
Domenico Losurdo - Liberalism: A Counter-History


I cheated and haven't yet read these two because I got distracted by a bunch of others in the meantime:

Davide Tarizzo - Life: A Modern Invention
Eugene Thacker - After Life (reread)
Giorgio Agamben - Means Without End: Notes on Politics
Michael Parenti - Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism
Lisa Adkins et. al. - The Asset Economy: Property Ownership and the New Logic of Inequality

On to Losurdo soon enough.

---

Reply to _db Thanks! Really cool that you're going through all the feminist classics. Much respect.
Maw April 12, 2022 at 23:37 #680856
@StreetlightX which should I start first Value Chains: The New Economic Imperialism or Imperialism in the Twenty-First Century
Streetlight April 13, 2022 at 02:19 #680894
Reply to Maw Imperialism in the 21st Cent, if only because Value Chains builds off it.
_db April 13, 2022 at 02:58 #680900
_db April 13, 2022 at 02:59 #680902
The Second Sex, Simone de Beauvoir
The Order of the Death's Head, Heinz Höhne
Maw April 13, 2022 at 22:05 #681196
Reply to StreetlightX :up:

Imperialism in the Twenty-First Century: Globalization, Super-Exploitation, and Capitalism’s Final Crisis by John Smith
javi2541997 April 18, 2022 at 12:50 #682931
The Decay of the Angel by Yukio Mishima (?? ???)
Far Approach by Seicho Matsumoto (?? ??)
Manuel April 18, 2022 at 15:21 #682982
The Philosophy of David Hume by Norman Kemp Smith

Confessions by Kanae Minato
180 Proof April 19, 2022 at 10:29 #683304
Day of the Oprichnik: A Novel, Vladimir Sorokin
Streetlight April 21, 2022 at 06:14 #683994
@Banno - From a 2nd hand bookstore in country NSW!

User image
Banno April 21, 2022 at 06:45 #684000
Reply to StreetlightX
:up:
It might be one of my old texts...?
Pantagruel April 21, 2022 at 10:40 #684083
A Theory of Justice
by John Rawls
Streetlight April 21, 2022 at 11:23 #684096
Reply to Banno User image

Your handwriting?
Banno April 21, 2022 at 12:25 #684117
Reply to StreetlightX Oh, no - you can read that. Mine's illegible.
Streetlight April 21, 2022 at 13:29 #684142
Reply to Banno Damn! A longshot, but worth a try.
Maw April 23, 2022 at 16:58 #685154
Value Chains: The New Economic Imperialism by Intan Suwandi
Manuel April 23, 2022 at 18:42 #685217
Hume's Skeptical Crisis by Robert Fogelin

The Village of Eight Graves by Seishi Yokomizo
Deleted User April 24, 2022 at 16:48 #685662
A.K. Coomaraswamy's What is Civilization? and Other Essays

Paul Bishop's Reading Goethe at Midlife: Ancient Wisdom, German Classicism, and Jung
Haglund April 24, 2022 at 17:29 #685675
Experimental Metaphysics

David Rose, Jonathan Schaffer


javi2541997 April 29, 2022 at 09:08 #688004
Kappa by Ry?nosuke Akutagawa (?? ???)
Maw May 02, 2022 at 17:14 #689808
Caliban and the Witch: Women, the Body, and Primative Accumulation by Silvia Federici

40% off Verso books until May 16th
180 Proof May 02, 2022 at 21:13 #689873
May readings

Metaphysical Animals, C.M. Cumhaill & R. Wiseman
An Essay on African Philosophical Thought: The Akan Conceptual Scheme, Kwame Gyekye
The Book of Tea, Okakura Kakuz?
There Are Places in the World Where Rules Are Less Important Than Kindness: And Other Thoughts on Physics, Philosophy and the World, Carlo Rovelli
Death and the Afterlife, Samuel Scheffler

still reading:

Formalism in Ethics and Non-Formal Ethics of Values, Max Scheler

rereading:

HUMANS: A Brief History of How We F[s]uck[/s]ed It All Up, Tom Phillips
Streetlight May 07, 2022 at 05:51 #691805
Catching up on a bunch of Deleuze readings, and other things:

Craig Lundy - History and Becoming: Deleuze's Philosophy of Creativity
Jay Lampert - Deleuze and Guattari's Philosophy of History
Claire Colebrook - Deleuze and the Meaning of Life
Peter Hallward - Out of this World: Deleuze and the Philosophy of Creation
Daniel Barber - Deleuze and the Naming of God: Post-Secularism and the Future of Immanence
Roland Barthes - S/Z
Edmund Husserl - Cartesian Meditations: An Introduction to Phenomenology
Michael Parenti - The Face of Imperialism
Michael Parenti - Against Empire

Reply to Maw What did you think of Smith and Suwandi?

Quoting 180 Proof
Metaphysical Animals, C.M. Cumhaill & R. Wiseman


I have heard good things about this.
Maw May 07, 2022 at 17:08 #692069
Quoting Streetlight
What did you think of Smith and Suwandi?


I enjoyed them both very much, thanks for the recommendation. I found Smith's work very informative, albeit highly technical and dense at times, as you mention in your short review. Suwandi painted a clearer picture (she's a better writer too) that offered a more material understanding of some of the more abstract concepts Smith provided, e.g. concrete examples of global labor arbitrage, or labor flexibility, and the interviews she conducted with Indonesian factory managers, etc..
Maw May 11, 2022 at 15:36 #693814
Battle Cry of Freedom: The Civil War Era by James McPherson
javi2541997 May 12, 2022 at 13:49 #694314
The Scarlet Gang of Asakusa by Yasunari Kawabata (?? ??)
180 Proof May 17, 2022 at 08:17 #696417
The Case against Death, Ingemar Patrick Linden
_db May 22, 2022 at 20:38 #699276
The Creation of Patriarchy, Gerda Lerner.

Still making my way through The Second Sex.
_db May 22, 2022 at 20:42 #699278
Reply to 180 Proof Interesting...you might like Lifespan by David Sinclair, similar topic.
180 Proof May 22, 2022 at 22:21 #699325
Reply to _db Thanks, but not really similiar. Linden's book is a bioethical examination of 'anti-aging' whereas Sinclair's concerns the cell biology of 'life extension' (from what I've gathered from reviews). I'm not nearly as interested in the technology as I am in the philosophy.
180 Proof May 23, 2022 at 06:19 #699517
Quoting 180 Proof
Taking a brief *pandemic break* from Piketty's latest tome ...

re-reading:

• The Plague, Albert Camus
• Wittgenstein's Mistress, David Markson
• The Road, Cormac McCarthy
— 180 Proof

... making it a "Doomsday Dozen" with 9 more novels (and no effin' vampires, zombies, etc):

• Clay's Ark, Octavia Butler
• The Pesthouse, Jim Crace
• The Dog Stars, Peter Heller
• The White Plague, Frank Herbert
• Wool, Hugh Howey
• The Children of Men, P. D. James
• The Trial, Franz Kafka
• Year Zero, Jeff Long
• Blindness, José Saramago

:death: :flower:

2022 spring / summer addendum

• Brian Aldiss, Greybeard
• Justin Cronin, The Passage
• Michel Faber, The Book of Strange New Things
• Hanna Jameson, The Last: A Novel
• Ling Ma, Severance
• Nnedi Okorafor, Who Fears Death
• Mary Shelley, The Last Man
• Peng Shepherd, The Book of M
• Waubgeshig Rice, Moon of the Crusted Snow
• Wilson Tucker, The Long Loud Silence
• Colson Whitehead, Zone One
• Lidia Yuknavitch, The Book of Joan



Pantagruel May 23, 2022 at 09:49 #699610
The Immortal Mind: Science and the Continuity of Consciousness beyond the Brain
by Ervin Laszlo and Anthony Peake
_db May 23, 2022 at 16:25 #699767
Reply to 180 Proof Gotcha, yeah Sinclair's book has a couple chapters dedicated to the philosophical ideas surrounding death (he claims that "death from old age" isn't real and is just a label for untreated illnesses) and the social implications of radical life extension, but you're right in that it's focused mostly on the science behind aging. The philosophical arguments themselves I felt were generally weak and naive; IIRC at one point he even hopes that in the future everyone will have microchips installed in their bodies that would monitor their vitals and inform the authorities if something is wrong :brow:

I made a post about this book (and the philosophical issues surrounding aging/death) here, in case you wanted to contribute.
180 Proof May 23, 2022 at 16:27 #699768
Reply to _db :cool: Thanks.

edit: It's an old thread from last summer to which I've posted once. I read your OP again and if I find something which interests me I'll respond. I've participated in several other threads on "life extension" "immorbidity" "immortality" "transhumanism" "bio/ethics" etc.
Jamal May 25, 2022 at 15:30 #700568
Current
Graham Joyce, Indigo

Recently read
Robert Silverberg, The World Inside :up:
Patricia Highsmith, The Talented Mr Ripley :up:
Richard Matheson, I Am Legend :down:

Soon to read
Orhan Pamuk, The Black Book
Jan Potocki, The Manuscript Found in Saragossa
Robert Silverberg, The Book Of Skulls
Christopher Priest, The Glamour
Italo Calvino, The Baron in the Trees
Philip K. Dick, Radio Free Albemuth
Shirley Jackson, We Have Always Lived in the Castle
Pantagruel May 31, 2022 at 11:23 #703374
Continental Divide: Heidegger and Cassirer at Davos
by Peter E. Gordon

I was going to pile Rawls' Political Liberalism on top of his Theory of Justice (which I just finished) but the material is just too dense. Saving that one up.
Maw June 03, 2022 at 23:49 #704796
The Making of Bourgeois Europe: Absolutism, Revolution and the Rise of Capitalism in England, France and Germany by Colin Mooers
Streetlight June 04, 2022 at 02:24 #704823
Reply to Maw :up:. Appreciate your thoughts on Smith and Suwandi too.

Currently Reading:

Joshua Kates - Essential History: Jacques Derrida and the Development of Deconstruction
Drucilla Cornell - The Philosophy of the Limit
Gillian Rose - Hegel Contra Sociology
Leo Strauss - The City and Man
Adrian Johnston - A New German Idealism: Hegel, Žižek, and Dialectical Materialism
Maw June 05, 2022 at 00:04 #705162
Reply to Streetlight Did you enjoy Losurdo's Liberalism?
Manuel June 05, 2022 at 01:12 #705199
Currently reading:

Critique of Pure Reason by Immanuel Kant (finally and damn, it really is hard-going even knowing the main ideas before reading it).

The Kimono Tattoo by Rebecca Copeland
jgill June 05, 2022 at 03:49 #705218
Reply to Manuel

I'm surprised your PhD program didn't have this as a requirement. But, like math, there are many paths to follow.
Manuel June 05, 2022 at 13:17 #705275
Reply to jgill

Parts of it were discussed, not the whole book. There was more emphasis on obscure phenomenologists and the Ancient Greeks. Maybe related tot he fact that it is a Catholic university, I think.

To force people to read the entire Critique, would be cruel. Several distinguished philosophers, like William James or Bertrand Russell, got very little to nothing out of him.

But I'm rectifying that mistake :halo:
Jackson June 05, 2022 at 15:30 #705302
Quoting Manuel
o force people to read the entire Critique, would be cruel. Several distinguished philosophers, like William James or Bertrand Russell, got very little to nothing out of him.


Kant is very popular today.
Manuel June 05, 2022 at 15:38 #705305
Reply to Jackson

He sure is, as he should be.

All I'm saying is that people vary wildly in what they get from him - either a great deal, something or very little and everything else in between.
Jackson June 05, 2022 at 15:40 #705306
Quoting Manuel
He sure is, as he should be.


Why should Kant be popular in philosophy departments?
Manuel June 05, 2022 at 15:46 #705309
Reply to Jackson

Are you arguing for the sake of it?

He should be popular because he made important contributions in epistemology, metaphysics, morals and aesthetics, among several other topics.

Modern philosophy developed in part as a reaction to his thought.

Nevertheless, I think there are classical philosophers that are more interesting than him and anticipated his thought. And I also think Kant exaggerates his own importance.

But that he should be popular, is evident.
Jackson June 05, 2022 at 15:47 #705310
Quoting Manuel
Are you arguing for the sake of it?


Never.
180 Proof June 05, 2022 at 15:55 #705311
Futilitarianism, Neil Vallelly

Reply to Manuel :up: Not evident, however, to incorrigible "beginners"...
Streetlight June 06, 2022 at 07:19 #705554
Quoting Maw
Did you enjoy Losurdo's Liberalism?


I delayed my read of Losurdo! I'm doing a couple of Hegel books atm, then after that I will read his book on Hegel then back to Liberalism + Revolution.
Cobra June 08, 2022 at 02:35 #706274
Hello,

I am traveling soon and have a long flight ahead. What would be some good books to read along the way?
Baden June 08, 2022 at 17:22 #706636
Reply to Cobra

I'm reading London Fields by Martin Amis. Would recommend.
T Clark June 08, 2022 at 18:17 #706683
Quoting Manuel
The Kimono Tattoo


I checked on Amazon. Turns out the book was praised by the International Pulpwood Queen and Timber Guy Book Club. No, I'm not joking.

The book sounds interesting though.
Manuel June 08, 2022 at 23:33 #706803
Reply to Clarky

It's a way to learn about Japanese culture that is entertaining. The book was pretty good, she knows Japan very well. But there are others that are much better, by Japanese authors.

Mostly murder-mysteries, with some exceptions.
T Clark June 09, 2022 at 00:20 #706810
Quoting Manuel
Mostly murder-mysteries, with some exceptions.


I like books that take place in other cultures. I just finished the "Night Watch" books by Sergei Lukyanenko translated from Russian. I have also really liked the Dublin Murder Squad books by Tana French and the Hamish MacBeth mysteries in Scotland.
Tom Storm June 09, 2022 at 00:25 #706811
Quoting Baden
I'm reading London Fields by Martin Amis. Would recommend.


Love his essays, dislike his fiction. Did enjoy Night Train a kind of parodic noir recently which most people dismiss.
Manuel June 09, 2022 at 00:57 #706815
Reply to Clarky

I have heard of Night Watch, but have not read it.

If you want a mixture of Russian culture with Buddhism, I think you might very well like Viktor Pelevin's Buddha's Little Finger, it's very philosophical. I have to re-read it again, but I remember being quite impressed.

I will have to check out the Dublin Murder Squad, the name sounds interesting.
T Clark June 09, 2022 at 01:25 #706825
Quoting Manuel
Dublin Murder Squad


French is a tough writer. Hard to read. Here is an Amazon review I wrote for her book "The Secret Place."

"The Secret Place" is about two Dublin detectives, Stephen Moran and Antoinette Conway, investigating the murder of a student at an upper-class boarding school. The focus of the story is on the friendship of four 16-year-old girls. Here is the message I left for the author, Tana French, on her webpage:

Ms. French:

Your books are wonderful, but you are ruthless – to your characters and your readers. I’ve just finished “The Secret Place,” and I am heartbroken. I called my daughter and cursed her for recommending your books and swore I will never read another one. She laughed, not unkindly, and told me she will accidentally leave “The Witch Elm” on my table next time she comes home.

I am grateful to you for sending Stephan Moran to lead me into the lives of those four girls. He and I are kindred spirits; grown men - I’m almost 70 – who still know, have always known, that girls are magic. He would understand my grief.

Thank you.
Manuel June 09, 2022 at 02:10 #706840
Reply to Clarky

Thanks for sharing that beautiful review.

I can handle tough, I think. But not boring (for too long anyway).

Hopefully we could exchange some further opinions on several novels some time.
T Clark June 09, 2022 at 02:37 #706847
Quoting Manuel
I can handle tough, I think.


Then go for it. She is a wonderful writer. I keep wanting to read more of her books, but I can't bring myself to do it. I have two on my shelf my traitorous daughter gave me.

Quoting Manuel
But not boring


Not boring, but intricate. Probably the best police procedural I've read. The interrogations are tough too. I don't know if it's accurate, but it has what my 11th grade English teacher called verisimilitude. It seems very real.

Also, the description of the Irish location and culture are absorbing and convincing.
Olivier5 June 09, 2022 at 05:33 #706883
Sette brevi lezioni di fisica by Carlo Rovelli. First book I manage to finish in Italian. :strong: :grin: It's very short though, as the title implies.

The 6 lessons of physics are truly amazing in terms of beauty, clarity and fun. The seventh one on the place of man is disappointing. Couldn't be otherwise I guess, given that the question is more biological than physical.
Snakes Alive June 10, 2022 at 07:07 #707296
Paul and Jesus: How the Apostle Transformed Christianity – James Tabor
Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife – Bart Ehrman
From Plato to Christ: How Platonic Thought Shaped the Christian Faith – Louis Markos
The Power of Parable: How Fiction by Jesus Became Fiction About Jesus – J. D. Crossan
Cobra June 10, 2022 at 16:18 #707405
Reply to Baden Thank you!
Maw June 12, 2022 at 14:23 #707989
Empire of Capital by Ellen Wood
Pantagruel June 12, 2022 at 20:06 #708043
On Heroes, Hero-Worship, and the Heroic in History
by Thomas Carlyle
Mikie June 14, 2022 at 03:38 #708485
Politics Is For Power by Eitan Hersh

Interesting and more relevant than ever. Will eventually create a thread in this vein.
javi2541997 June 14, 2022 at 08:30 #708540
Palm-of-the-Hand Stories By Kawabata Yasunari (?? ??)
Snakes Alive June 14, 2022 at 22:25 #708731
Universalism, the prevailing doctrine of the Christian Church during its first five hundred years – John Wesley Hanson
Is there anything good about hell? Our discomfort about hell and its ultimate good – Paul Dirks
That all shall be saved: Heaven, hell, and universal salvation – David Bentley Hart
Four views on hell, 2nd ed.
Maw June 15, 2022 at 22:29 #708966
The Inheritance of Rome: A History of Europe from 400 to 1000 by Christopher Wickham

Think I'm gonna lean mostly into history this summer
Mikie June 16, 2022 at 16:25 #709204
Has anyone read The Rise and Fall of the Neoliberal Order: America and the World in the Free Market Era?

I don’t know this Gary Gerstle dude. Thinking of picking it up.
180 Proof June 18, 2022 at 21:23 #709916
Silence and Beauty, Makoto Fujimura

rereading:

Silence, Shusaku Endo
Streetlight June 21, 2022 at 11:41 #710709
Gilles Châtelet - Figuring Space: Philosophy, Mathematics, and Physics
Gillian Rose - The Melancholy Science: An Introduction To The Thought Of Theodor W. Adorno
Dominco Losurdo - Hegel and the Freedom of Moderns

--

Reply to Maw Oh, that's a big one. Let me know if worth, if you can! (I plan to actually read Losurdo this time...)
Noble Dust June 23, 2022 at 02:03 #711334
Almost through A History of God: The 4,000 Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity & Islam by Karen Armstrong. Incredible. I feel like this was a @Wayfarer rec? Thanks if so. The Battle For God: A History of Fundamentalism is next.

Also @Jamal and @Clarky, I'm hung up at about 100 pages into Titus Groan. I have mixed feelings.

Quoting 180 Proof
Silence and Beauty, Makoto Fujimura


Interesting choice, he was a big influence on me as an artist back in my Christian daze. I still respect him, and his art is incredible.
Manuel June 23, 2022 at 02:12 #711338
The Philosophical Writings of Descartes: Volume II by Descartes

The Kind Worth Killing by Peter Swanson
Wayfarer June 23, 2022 at 02:16 #711339
Reply to Noble Dust Yes I did mention that book. Found it very helpful at the time, but that was a long time ago! Still sitting there on my bookshelf alongside the other dusty tomes.

Currently reading Mind and the Cosmic Order, Charles Pinter - math emeritus with long interest in neurological modelling. Not a philosophy book as such but with considerable philosophical ramifications. Also an autobiography called Silicon, but not able to post the author name as it sets off the spambot (ironically!)
Noble Dust June 23, 2022 at 02:25 #711342
Quoting Wayfarer
Yes I did mention that book.


Any other recs in that vein?
Wayfarer June 23, 2022 at 03:58 #711384
Reply to Noble Dust I suppose the next logical stop in my reading history was a book called The Theological Origins of Modernity, Michael Allen Gillespie. Have a look at this review. Read that when I was first posting on forums. Important book.

180 Proof June 23, 2022 at 04:05 #711389
javi2541997 June 23, 2022 at 17:12 #711643
The way of the samurai By ?? ???, Mishima Yukio.
Pantagruel June 25, 2022 at 11:48 #712113
Political Liberalism
by John Rawls

Hopefully this will counteract the vile taste of the current debacle of Roe v. Wade in the US.

I was absolutely mesmerized by Hardy's last novel, so I'll also now be reading his first:

Desperate Remedies
by Thomas Hardy
T Clark June 25, 2022 at 15:49 #712169
Quoting Noble Dust
Silence and Beauty, Makoto Fujimura
— 180 Proof

Interesting choice, he was a big influence on me as an artist back in my Christian daze. I still respect him, and his art is incredible.


I looked him up. I really like the paintings I saw. They all looked like book covers for dystopian science fiction novels.
Manuel June 25, 2022 at 23:22 #712319
Piranesi - Susanna Clarke
Noble Dust June 26, 2022 at 06:29 #712455
Quoting T Clark
They all looked like book covers for dystopian science fiction novels.


Haha, a strange interpretation. His paintings make me feel very calm and generally ok. I had the good fortune of meeting him and seeing some of his work in person, years ago. i was running slides for him at a conference. When I handed him the remote, he asked "which button turns back time?" :lol:
Wayfarer June 26, 2022 at 08:12 #712478
Reply to Noble Dust ‘Oh, the same one that gives you a Command-Z in real life.’
Noble Dust June 26, 2022 at 08:22 #712479
Reply to Wayfarer

If only I had been that clever.
Heracloitus June 26, 2022 at 08:49 #712483
Reply to Wayfarer and ctrl Z for us peasants
Maw June 27, 2022 at 02:51 #712841
Quoting Streetlight
Oh, that's a big one. Let me know if worth, if you can!


I'm a little over halfway through it and it's excellent so far. Very thorough. Helpful in filling some gaps in the period of Europe I was arguably most unfamiliar with. Going to read his book on Medieval Europe next.

Unfortunately had to take two days off of reading; finally caught Covid last week after successfully avoiding it for 2+ years, which were instead were lying on the couch watching mindless movies.
180 Proof June 27, 2022 at 09:13 #712930
Reply to Maw Get well soon! I had it twice in 2021 (before and after the Pfizer jab), no bueno. Two boosters later, some "long haul" symptoms are still fucking me up. :mask:
praxis June 28, 2022 at 21:44 #713497
The Origins of Political Order: From Prehuman Times to the French Revolution
By Francis Fukuyama

Barbarian Days: A Surfing Life
By William Finnegan

Going into it I was very skeptical of a surfer autobiography but the Pulizer is well deserved.

The Plant Paradox: The Hidden Dangers in "Healthy" Foods That Cause Disease and Weight Gain
By Steven R. Gundry, MD

An important book if you care about your health, particularly if you have any autoimmune issues.
_db July 01, 2022 at 20:03 #714544
Right-Wing Women, Andrea Dworkin


From father’s house to husband’s house to a grave that still might not be her own, a woman acquiesces to male authority in order to gain some protection from male violence.
javi2541997 July 02, 2022 at 07:47 #714730
Some Prefer Nettles, Jun'ichir? Tanizaki (?? ???)

The Sound of the Mountain, Yasunari Kawabata (?? ??)
180 Proof July 03, 2022 at 17:55 #715153
July readings

Byzantine and Renaissance Philosophy, vol. 6, Peter Adamson
Chronicles of Dissent: Interviews 1984-1996, Noam Chomsky

still reading

Silence and Beauty, Makoto Fujimura
Futilitarianism: Neoliberalism and the Production of Uselessness, Neil Vallelly
Maw July 06, 2022 at 15:12 #716143
Medieval Europe by Chris Wickham
Manuel July 09, 2022 at 01:56 #716916
The Mental Life of Modernism by Samuel Jay Keyser

The Patient's Secret by Lorenth Anne White

Keyser's book is extremely interesting, very provocative and suggestive of our mental makeup, would definitely recommend for people interested in how the arts and innatist philosophy of mind interact.
_db July 09, 2022 at 18:28 #717070
Friendly Fascism: The New Face of Power in America, Bertram Gross
javi2541997 July 15, 2022 at 14:23 #719216
The Sound of Waves, Yukio Mishima (?? ???)

Novelist as a Vocation, Haruki Murakami (?? ??)
Maw July 15, 2022 at 16:52 #719265
Class Conflict and the Crisis of Feudalism: Essays in Medieval Social History by Rodney Hilton
Jamal July 15, 2022 at 18:29 #719301
The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe. Just finished the first volume.

I didn’t like it when I read it 20 years ago, but now I do. Many people go on about how deep and difficult it is, and fail to convey how beautiful, engrossing and enjoyable it is.

In contrast, I recently read Lord Valentine’s Castle by Robert Silverberg, having been impressed by some of his earlier books. Like the Wolfe, it has an SF-tinged fantasy setting, but it’s embarrassing, the kind of stuff that gives fantasy fiction a bad name.
Manuel July 15, 2022 at 19:26 #719321
Reply to Jamal

Ah, you never said if you enjoyed Mason & Dixon, did you finish it?

I'll have to go back to re-reading someday, it's been several years...
Jamal July 15, 2022 at 19:34 #719324
Quoting Manuel
Ah, you never said if you enjoyed Mason & Dixon, did you finish it?


It’s an odd thing what happened. I loved it, was totally into it, totally involved and swept up, but with around a hundred pages to go I don’t know what happened, I just dropped it. It was like okay, that was a lot of fun, but it’s boring now and I don’t need to read on.

I’ll likely go back and finish it some time soon though.
Manuel July 15, 2022 at 19:56 #719333
Reply to Jamal

It's an interesting phenomenon. Lots of people love the beginning at the ending (remember it best), then they forget what happened in the middle. That happened to me.

So your case is not too strange. It's very curious that it happens with that book.
Jamal July 15, 2022 at 20:06 #719334
Reply to Manuel The characters live on in my imagination so I would actually like to read through to the end.

Now I think about it, there was a point when I just stopped reading for a month, from around February 24. Mason & Dixon may well have been the book I was reading at the time. So, blame Putin.
Manuel July 15, 2022 at 21:18 #719349
Quoting Jamal
So, blame Putin


I thought we had a tacit agreement on this... Of course it's him, always.

Anyway:

The Logos by Mark de Silva

Re-reading:

A Treatise of Human Nature Volume I by David Hume
Hanover July 17, 2022 at 15:23 #719972
Quoting Jamal
It’s an odd thing what happened. I loved it, was totally into it, totally involved and swept up, but with around a hundred pages to go I don’t know what happened, I just dropped it. It was like okay, that was a lot of fun, but it’s boring now and I don’t need to read on


Describes too many of my relationships.
Jamal July 17, 2022 at 15:31 #719976
Reply to Hanover That comment sent my mind on a journey in which I explored the role of storytelling in relationships and noted the difficulty in creating satisfying endings in life.

And they both lived happily ever after. The end.
Hanover July 17, 2022 at 16:39 #719998
Quoting Jamal
That comment sent my mind on a journey in which I explored the role of storytelling in relationships and noted the difficulty in creating satisfying endings in life.


If I can evoke a pensive moment, especially one burdened with sentimentality, i feel I've been successful.

More on satisfying endings in life:

I think of sentimentality as akin to regret but distinguished from regret in that instead of wishing you could travel back in the past to change your errors, you wish you could travel back and relive the romanticized perfection of what once was. It shares with regret the impossibility of correction and so a melancholy.

This gets at it:



It only makes sense if you saw the movie.

Good chat.

180 Proof July 17, 2022 at 17:07 #720007
Zero to Birth: How the Human Brain is Built, W.A. Harris
Jamal July 17, 2022 at 17:12 #720011
Quoting Hanover
I think of sentimentality as akin to regret but distinguished from regret in that instead of wishing you could travel back in the past to change your errors, you wish you could travel back and relive the romanticized perfection of what once was. It shares with regret the impossibility of correction and so a melancholy.


:cry:
T Clark July 17, 2022 at 18:26 #720030
I thought people might be interested in this. It's a great resource. It lists the scientific and philosophical primary sources it considers central to intellectual understanding and provides links to the documents themselves, including papers and full books. The list is enlightening all by itself.

https://antilogicalism.com/primary-sources/

Don't let the website's name, Antilogicalism, throw you.

180 Proof July 17, 2022 at 19:12 #720040
Count Timothy von Icarus July 17, 2022 at 19:50 #720054
This a really neat (and free) book I came across just looking at the free books on Amazon for my Kindle.

It's also free from Springer: https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-03633-1

Information—Consciousness—Reality: How a New Understanding of the Universe Can Help Answer Age-Old Questions of Existence is a dissertation that looks to summarize all the "big ideas" of human knowledge. It starts from how mathematics can describe reality and allow us to make predictions about the world. It divides the methods of mathematics into two categories, the mathematics of the continuous, which we use in our universal laws, describing symmetries, etc. and the mathematics of the discrete (graph theory, chaos theory). It also has a lot on epistemology and the philosophy of science. Basically, it's a big picture look at the edifice of human knowledge, with a focus on the twin "revolutions" of information and chaos. It even goes a bit into markets and politics (applying insights from earlier sections on mathematics, philosophy, and physics), and niche areas like cryptocurrency.

Then part two looks at all the problems with knowledge. All the ways what we can know is fundamentally limited, Hume's argument against induction etc.

The last part is authors foreword looking vision of how our knowledge could progress. Going off the summary he gives to start (haven't made it to the end), he focuses more on the potential fruits of information science, hence the title.

Really seems like a great summary resource.

Also reading The Lightness of Being: Mass, Ether, and the Unification of Forces. It focuses on how matter, particles with mass, emerge from energy. The other big focus is on the energy content of the "vacuum" and all that goes on there. It includes a really good attempt to explain quantum chromodynamics and quarks intuitively, although it is really hard for me to wrap my head around local symmetries. The explanation of how an area of (mostly) empty space (which may not exist like we think it does) produces quark condensate, generating quarks from nowhere because their existence is more stable than their not being, is very good too. A lot of intriguing questions on what the vacuum is (definetly not empty space) from a Nobel laureate doing his best to make this stuff intuitive, great stuff.

And I read Hoffman's The Case Against Reality recently, which is already discussed in detail in this thread: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/720043
Pantagruel July 18, 2022 at 18:02 #720364
Lectures on Ideology and Utopia
by Paul Ricoeur

Jonathan Wild
by Henry Fielding
Mikie July 21, 2022 at 02:10 #720963
A Collective Bargain: Unions, Organizing, and the Fight for Democracy By Jane McAlevey

So far it’s fantastic.
_db July 21, 2022 at 02:25 #720964
Just finished Dark Money by Jane Mayer
Noble Dust July 23, 2022 at 04:40 #721424
The Magus of Strovolos by Kyriacos C. Markides
Mikie July 23, 2022 at 12:36 #721496
Reply to _db

I’ve heard a YouTube lecture from Mayer on this but never read the book.
Maw July 24, 2022 at 04:45 #721640
Le Morte d'Arthur by Thomas Malory
Pantagruel July 25, 2022 at 19:10 #722159
The History of Tom Jones, a Foundling
by Henry Fielding
Manuel July 31, 2022 at 04:02 #724049
I just finished my first Krasznahorkai. Satantango.

Wow.

I look forward to his other novels now.
javi2541997 July 31, 2022 at 15:42 #724256
A brief modification:

I thought my father was God, Paul Auster

The Holy man of Mount Koya, Izumi Ky?ka (? ??)

Runaway horses, Yukio Mishima (?? ???)
T Clark August 01, 2022 at 20:00 #724632
Quoting Noble Dust
The Magus of Strovolos by Kyriacos C. Markides


I took a look. From the Amazon blurb is sounds a bit like Carlos Castenada's books, e.g. "The Teachings of Don Juan." I was heavy into them in my youth in the 1970s. Have you read any?
Cuthbert August 01, 2022 at 22:56 #724659
I just finished 'David Copperfield' for the second time and found it no more convincing than the first. The narrator claims to be the author of several well-known books but I have never found any other works by him. Enquiries at the library or bookshop produce only the autobiography I already have. It is highly amusing and very well written but I don't trust its truthfulness one bit.
Noble Dust August 02, 2022 at 03:30 #724734
Reply to T Clark

I've avoided Castaneda because I've read that the books were largely shown to be fictitious. Daskalos (as the Magus is called) is much more obscure of a figure, as far as I can tell, so there's less mythology surrounding him. I'm not aware of Markides' account as having been called into question. He's an anthropologist and seems trustworthy. You can even find interviews with Daskalos on youtube.

His ideas are a marriage of Christian mysticism and Hinduism, in a nutshell, which automatically attracted me. If you read mystic literature across disciplines, and then read this account, it's basically all the same thing. It's the Perennial Philosophy.
Jamal August 02, 2022 at 06:07 #724770
Reply to Cuthbert I'm having a similar experience right now. I'm reading The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe, in which Wolfe claims that the narrative contained within is his translation of a manuscript that reached him by means of time travel from tens or hundreds of thousands of years in the future, but as far as I can tell there is no evidence for this. Nowhere has he given details about how he found the manuscript, and I can't find any reports about it. I'm forced to conclude that Wolfe made the whole thing up, which surely casts doubt on his reputation.
180 Proof August 02, 2022 at 06:18 #724777
Reply to Jamal :smirk:
Cuthbert August 02, 2022 at 11:10 #724822
Reply to Jamal I sympathise. I think the rot set in with Tristram Shandy or perhaps even earlier with Don Quixote. But at least we can trust Tolkien.
Jamal August 02, 2022 at 13:29 #724859
Quoting Cuthbert
But at least we can trust Tolkien


Yes, I live in the heart of Mordor so I know it's all true.
SophistiCat August 02, 2022 at 16:48 #724918
Reply to Cuthbert :lol: I have a like/hate relationship with Dickens. After reading Copperfield some years ago I decided that I'd had enough of him for a while. I get the impression that he was a piece of work in real life.

Reply to Jamal :yikes:
T Clark August 02, 2022 at 17:59 #724940
Quoting Noble Dust
I've avoided Castaneda because I've read that the books were largely shown to be fictitious.


I read them when I was an impressionable youth. I think they probably had an effect on my current understanding of the nature of reality. So, true or false, they have influenced me and I remembering enjoying them.
180 Proof August 05, 2022 at 00:46 #725655
Gorgeous writing about the moral circus of The TR45H Years ... :mask:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/07/kevin-mccarthy-lindsey-graham-trump-devotion-2024-election/661508/
jgill August 05, 2022 at 03:15 #725686
Quoting Noble Dust
I've avoided Castaneda because I've read that the books were largely shown to be fictitious


Yes, that may be so, but when one avoids the drugs and reads carefully there are jewels of wisdom there. His instructions for what he called the Art of Dreaming are spot on and worked on my first attempt, providing an astounding experience that has stuck with me for half a century.

Currently I am reading Born to Climb: From Rock Climbing Pioneers to Olympic Athletes, by Zofia Reych. A beautifully written account of one of the fastest growing leisure sports and a young woman's journey along an existential path.
T Clark August 05, 2022 at 03:19 #725688
Quoting Jamal
Yes, I live in the heart of Mordor so I know it's all true.


I think our late friend Streetlight would disagree with you about where that is located.
180 Proof August 05, 2022 at 09:24 #725758
August readings:

The Origin of Phenomena, D. B. Kelley
Defending the Axioms: On the Philosophical Foundations of Set Theory, Penelope Maddy
Recognition or Disagreement: A Critical Encounter on the Politics of Freedom, Equality, and Identity, A. Honneth, J. Rancière & ed. Katia Genel

still reading:

• Byzantine and Renaissance Philosophy, vol. 6, Peter Adamson

re-reading:

Understanding and Explanation: A Transcendental-Pragmatic Perspective, Karl-Otto Apel
From the Book to the Book: An Edmond Jabès Reader, Edmond Jabès
The Myth of an Afterlife: The Case against Life After Death, eds. Michael Martin & Keith Augustine
Pantagruel August 07, 2022 at 13:34 #726395
Reader, Come Home: The Reading Brain in a Digital World
by Maryanne Wolf

Whether digital technologies may be impacting our capacity for critical thinking.
Jamal August 08, 2022 at 09:14 #726595
Quoting Jamal
I'm reading The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe


Finished it. Brilliant, and in my opinion gets steadily better as you go through the four parts. Sort of Jack Vance plus Nabokov, Borges and Proust. As it happens he was influenced by all of those, and references them pretty openly, though indirectly.

I must say though, I was able to get through it much more easily this (second) time round only because I was reading on an iPad, so I could look things up. Even a regular dictionary isn’t sufficient, because the lexicon makes use of many archaic words, so it was essential to have easy access to the web.
180 Proof August 08, 2022 at 09:29 #726599
Reply to Jamal :100: :clap: :cool: Gene Wolfe binging is one my at least once a decade (purgative) rituals.
Jamal August 08, 2022 at 10:08 #726617
Reply to 180 Proof :up:

I’m sure I’ll read it again. Not right now though. Although I am curious about his other Sun books.
T Clark August 08, 2022 at 16:52 #726777
Quoting Jamal
I must say though, I was able to get through it much more easily this (second) time round only because I was reading on an iPad, so I could look things up. Even a regular dictionary isn’t sufficient, because the lexicon makes use of many archaic words, so it was essential to have easy access to the web.


I love paper books, but now I find myself tapping on words I want to know the definitions of or get more information on. Turns out that doesn't work. So I mostly stick to my Kindle. It has changed the depth of my reading experience. Sometimes I'll look up a word or place and then go off on a tangent for 15 minutes, looking at maps and photos, following a Wikipedia trail off into the sunset. Love it.
Jamal August 08, 2022 at 16:55 #726778
Quoting T Clark
I love paper books, but now I find myself tapping on words I want to know the definitions of or get more information on. Turns out that doesn't work.


I do that too. Doesn't work for me either :chin:

Quoting T Clark
Sometimes I'll look up a word or place and then go off on a tangent for 15 minutes, looking at maps and photos, following a Wikipedia trail off into the sunset. Love it.


Too, I do that too. Attention deficit.
Amity August 08, 2022 at 17:07 #726781
Reply to Jamal

No tapping on words here! Back in the day of cassettes :nerd:

The Shadow of the Torturer Audiobook (Roy Avers, noise reduced)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnw8WXRZbAM


0:00 - Introduction
3:59 - Chapter 1: Resurrection and Death
20:12 - Chapter 2: Severian
36:02 - Chapter 3: The Autarch's Face
52:32 - Chapter 4: Triskele
1:09:33 - Chapter 5: The Picture - Cleaner and Others
1:22:35 - Chapter 6: The Master of the Curators
1:48:48 - Chapter 7: The Traitress
2:10:37 - Chapter 8: The Conversationalist
2:24:00 - Chapter 9: The House Azure
2:38:17 - Chapter 10: The Last Year
2:55:00 - Chapter 11: The Feast
3:08:33 - Chapter 12: The Traitor
3:24:02 - Chapter 13: The Lictor of Thrax
3:40:56 - Chapter 14: Terminus Est
3:55:32 - Chapter 15: Baldanders
4:13:50 - Chapter 16: The Rag Shop
4:29:20 - Chapter 17: The Challenge
4:43:45 - Chapter 18: The Destruction of the Altar
5:00:42 - Chapter 19: The Botanic Gardens
5:18:55 - Chapter 20: Father Inire's mirrors
5:35:26 - Chapter 21: The Hut in the Jungle
5:50:41 - Chapter 22: Dorcas
6:03:28 - Chapter 23: Hildegrin
6:18:08 - Chapter 24: The Flower of Dissolution
6:34:28 - Chapter 25: The Inn of Lost Loves
6:51:28 - Chapter 26: Sennet
7:03:56 - Chapter 27: Is He Dead?
7:15:10 - Chapter 28: Carnifex
7:28:24 - Chapter 29: Agilus
7:42:15 - Chapter 30: Night
7:56:17 - Chapter 31: The Shadow of the Torturer
8:09:30 - Chapter 32: The Play
8:28:15 - Chapter 33: Five legs
8:41:13 - Chapter 34: Morning
8:52:26 - Chapter 35: Hethor
9:15:36 - Appendix

Jamal August 08, 2022 at 17:22 #726784
Reply to Amity I'm told the version with Jonathan Davis is excellent. Don't know about Roy Avers.

In any case, prepare to have no idea what is going on or why. :grin:
Amity August 08, 2022 at 17:32 #726785
Quoting Jamal
Don't know about Roy Avers.


All I know is he's free :up:

Quoting Jamal
...prepare to have no idea what is going on or why.


I will probably fall asleep before I realise how confused I am :wink:

Jamal August 08, 2022 at 17:35 #726786
Reply to Amity There's nothing like the words of a professional torturer to send you into a peaceful sleep.
Amity August 08, 2022 at 17:44 #726787
Reply to Jamal
I'll take your word for that :smirk:
Sayin' nuffink that will get me into truble :zip:
??????????? nyet :scream:

????????? ???? :yawn:

Torus34 August 10, 2022 at 22:28 #727702
I'm presently reading At The Existentialist Café, by Sarah Bakewell. Her writing style can best be defined by 'chatty'. I've a better idea of what the existentialists were trying to come to grips with than ever before. I've also picked up more information on who was sleeping with whom than I really desired. Has anyone else read her books? This one in particular?

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
Daniel August 13, 2022 at 17:41 #728747
I wanna recommend At the Mountains of Madness by H. P. Lovecraft (or most of his stories) if you'd like to experience a bit of dark suspense.
180 Proof August 13, 2022 at 21:26 #728849
Meeting the Universe Halfway: Quantum Physics and the Entanglement of Matter and Meaning, Karen Barad
Critical Realism: An Introduction to Roy Bhaskar's Philosophy, Andrew Collier

Reply to Daniel :up:
_db August 13, 2022 at 22:07 #728865
Finished:

  • The Color Purple, Alice Walker: great read.
  • The Left Hand of Darkness, Ursula K. Le Guin: it was okay.
  • Ubik, Philip K. Dick: friggin amazing!

180 Proof August 13, 2022 at 22:10 #728866
Reply to _db :cool: :up:
T Clark August 14, 2022 at 01:55 #728903
Quoting 180 Proof
Meeting the Universe Halfway: Quantum Physics and the Entanglement of Matter and Meaning,


Sounded interesting, so I looked it up on Amazon. Here's from the spiel there:

The starting point for Barad’s analysis is the philosophical framework of quantum physicist Niels Bohr. Barad extends and partially revises Bohr’s philosophical views in light of current scholarship in physics, science studies, and the philosophy of science as well as feminist, poststructuralist, and other critical social theories.

That certainly is...provocative. Any thoughts so far?
Noble Dust August 14, 2022 at 02:21 #728907
Quoting _db
Ubik, Philip K. Dick: friggin amazing!


:cheer: my favorite from him by far. Addictive, a fever-dream pace, hilarious, flamboyant, disturbing, horrifying all in one. And pretty damn short.
180 Proof August 14, 2022 at 04:24 #728922
Reply to T Clark
Not yet, I just started. I'll let you know. Check out her wiki
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Barad
and the synopsis of her "agential realism". I'm interested in her "feminism" only insofar as she grounds it in (her) ontology, which is new to me (in this formulation).
T Clark August 14, 2022 at 04:29 #728925
Quoting 180 Proof
Check out her wiki


I took a look. Sounds pretty creepy. Set me straight if I'm wrong.
180 Proof August 14, 2022 at 06:32 #728949
Reply to T Clark "Creepy"?
T Clark August 14, 2022 at 17:03 #729145
Quoting 180 Proof
"Creepy"?


Ok, ok. Just let us know what you think once you've finished.
180 Proof August 14, 2022 at 19:50 #729209
Pantagruel August 15, 2022 at 10:10 #729496
The Intelligence of the Cosmos: Why Are We Here? New Answers from the Frontiers of Science
by Ervin Laszlo
javi2541997 August 15, 2022 at 16:09 #729552
Two biographies:

The eclipse of Yukio Mishima, Shintaro Ishihara

The last words of Yukio Mishima, Takashi Furubayashi.
T Clark August 15, 2022 at 16:13 #729554
Quoting javi2541997
Two biographies:

The eclipse of Yukio Mishima, Shintaro Ishihara

The last words of Yukio Mishima, Takashi Furubayashi.


[joke]I've decided you won't be allowed to read any more Japanese authors, especially Mishima. I think they have a bad influence on you.[/joke]
javi2541997 August 15, 2022 at 16:37 #729558
Reply to T Clark

My parents literally think the same :rofl: they are worried because they see I am pretty "obsessed" with Mishima!
T Clark August 17, 2022 at 16:39 #730151
I just read an article in "Nautilus" - "How the Physics of Nothing Underlies Everything." A bit popular sciencey for my taste, but it does highlight the perennial problem with the whole "Why is there something rather than nothing?" question - What does "nothing" mean? Here's a link:

https://nautil.us/how-the-physics-of-nothing-underlies-everything-22894/
javi2541997 August 17, 2022 at 17:08 #730160
Reply to T Clark

Pretty interesting, indeed. Thanks for sharing the link :100:
T Clark August 18, 2022 at 16:39 #730395
Here is a link to a site called Libretexts. That's what it is - free text books for a range of disciplines. Mostly science. Neat site.

https://libretexts.org/

At the top of the page, click on "Explore the libraries."
Manuel August 19, 2022 at 13:58 #730751
Going for round 2 here, to get a better understanding:

An Essay Concerning Human Understanding by John Locke

Novel:

Infinite Ground by Martin McInnes
Pantagruel August 20, 2022 at 21:34 #731274
Quoting Manuel
Going for round 2 here, to get a better understanding:
An Essay Concerning Human Understanding by John Locke


Nice. I've been wanting to re-read this for some time. Enjoy.

The Philosophy of the Enlightenment
by Ernst Cassirer

Pantagruel August 22, 2022 at 12:11 #731850
Keep the Aspidistra Flying
by George Orwell
T Clark August 22, 2022 at 16:47 #731900
Here is a link to an interesting article about population growth from "Quillette."

https://quillette.com/2022/08/20/the-unexpected-future/

The predictions it makes about future population growth are significantly different from ones I've read elsewhere. I'm not sure if that should make me suspicious. Numbers I've read elsewhere say that human population will reach a maximum level of about 11 billion people in 2100 and then drop off a bit until it reaches equilibrium. This article predicts a maximum population of about 9 billion people in 2050 dropping to equilibrium of about 8.5 billion by 2100. That population will have a significantly different age distribution than our current one - a much larger proportion of old people. This is predicted to lead to a drastic worker shortage, a much heavier burden on the young to support the elderly, and the end of economic progress, at least by the mechanisms which currently drive it.
Maw August 23, 2022 at 00:01 #732008
Reply to T Clark I'd be suspicious of any article published by Quillette, and a cursory sweep of the authors' wiki page strongly suggests they are dumb.
Maw August 24, 2022 at 23:01 #732750
Landscapes: John Berger on Art by John Berger
Noble Dust August 28, 2022 at 09:43 #733868
Kafka On The Shore - Haruki Murakami
javi2541997 August 28, 2022 at 12:30 #733901
Reply to Noble Dust

Excellent choice! Enjoy it friend! :up: :ok:
Pantagruel August 28, 2022 at 21:27 #733984
The Warden
by Anthony Trollope
Noble Dust August 29, 2022 at 04:15 #734101
Reply to javi2541997

Just hitting the good bits and it's grand. :up:
180 Proof August 29, 2022 at 09:19 #734180
August-October readings:

Meeting the Universe Halfway: Quantum Physics and the Entanglement of Matter and Meaning, Karen Barad
Critical Realism: An Introduction to Roy Bhaskar's Philosophy, Andrew Collier
The Origin of Phenomena, D. B. Kelley
Quantum Ontology: A Guide to the Metaphysics of Quantum Mechanics, Peter Lewis
Defending the Axioms: On the Philosophical Foundations of Set Theory, Penelope Maddy
Giving Beyond The Gift: Apophasis and Overcoming Theomania, Elliot Wolfson
Maw September 01, 2022 at 15:46 #735055
Cultures of Uneven and Combined Development: From International Relations to World Literature edited by James Christie and Nesrin Degirmencioglu
T Clark September 01, 2022 at 17:02 #735065
Quoting 180 Proof
Quantum Ontology: A Guide to the Metaphysics of Quantum Mechanics, Peter Lewis


Let us know if this is worth reading once you've had a chance to read it.
javi2541997 September 03, 2022 at 13:54 #735562
I keep reading to the master of masters.

After the Banquet, Yukio Mishima.

Death in Midsummer and Other Stories, Yukio Mishima.
Pantagruel September 05, 2022 at 11:30 #736184
Critique of Instrumental Reason
by Max Horkheimer

Silas Marner: The Weaver of Raveloe
by George Eliot
Jamal September 11, 2022 at 05:47 #738223
Current
Christopher Priest, The Dream Archipelago

Recently read
Christopher Priest, The Glamour :up: :sparkle:
Gene Wolfe, The Urth of the New Sun :confused:
Robert Silverberg, The Book of Skulls :up: :sparkle:
Margaret Atwood, Oryx and Crake :meh:

Soon to read
Italo Calvino, If on a Winter's Night a Traveller
Thomas M. Disch, Camp Concentration
Michel Houellebecq, Submission
José Saramago, The History of the Siege of Lisbon
Vladimir Nabokov, Ada or Ardor: A Family Chronicle
Bob Shaw, The Palace of Eternity
180 Proof September 12, 2022 at 06:29 #738611
Maw September 12, 2022 at 17:52 #738726
Art History as Social Praxis: The Collected Writings of David Craven edited by Brian Winkenweder
Pantagruel September 13, 2022 at 10:24 #738971
Knowledge and Human Interests
by Jürgen Habermas
Pantagruel September 15, 2022 at 11:14 #739570
Magister Ludi
by Hermann Hesse
javi2541997 September 23, 2022 at 08:34 #741895
Autumn readings

  • Captain Shigemoto's Mother, Jun'ichir? Tanizaki.
  • Rivers, Teru Miyamoto.
  • Beauty and Sadness, Yasunari Kawabata.
Mikie September 24, 2022 at 22:20 #742192
Travels with Charley, John Steinbeck

For the second time.
aodhan September 24, 2022 at 22:21 #742193
Reply to Jamal

Brave New World, Aldous Huxley

Dystopian fiction called 'prophetic' by critics, citizens are manufactured by genetic engineering on assembly lines to fulfill their respective roles in society, they anaesthetise themselves into acceptance by sex and opiates, children are conditioned to hate flowers and books, the calendar begins from the first creation of cars on the assembly line of ford, A.F.- after ford- as opposed to -anno domine- A.D. polygamy is encouraged and monogamy is a perversion, love and parentage are disgusting anachronisms to the conditioned citizens of the brave new world

3 characters have the intimation of the emptiness of their lives, one is a woman who falls in love with a man who is physically defective for the caste he was engineered for, another is a case of refinement above his upper echelon purpose, a fortunate idiosyncracy of the assembly line,

The society is predicated on empty hedonism, the material needs are provided for, so the culture is without neccessity and without purpose, or meaning, it is not a totalitarian imposition, it's enclosed upon itself by citizens' anaesthetised acquiescence.

The soma the citizens consume resemble psychiatric medication to assuage the anxiety of a life without purpose or meaning, the material needs are provided for, the spiritual sense negated, reflected in the calander measurement, of "our Ford"

Aldous Huxley lamented he did not include nuclear power in the narrative, it would have lended the prediction greater accuracy, a complaint in spite of the accuracy of the culture he wrote of in the novel, it was so spot on, using nuclear power as a concept would have been clairvoyant

I read the Communist Manifesto by Marx and Engels and the Gulag Archipelago by Solzhenitsyn, the edition of the Communist Manifesto had a treatise on the horrific conditions of the lives of the newly created working class in the major cities of Britain, "property is theft" and a "dictatorship of the proletariat" appeared to be an appropriate response to the injustices inflicted by the economic power of the bourgeoisie, the Manifesto is thought to be a worthy ideal because it advocates for property to be centralised, parentage is negated in the manifesto itself

I think Aldous Huxley took the communist manifesto as a template for the utopian ideal inverted in brave new world, characters include a woman called Lenina and a protagonist named Marx,

In the Gulag Archipelago a faithful rendition of the disaster of Stalinist USSR is revealed in its outright hellishness, a criticism to a friend of the regime was weighty enough to be sentenced to a 5 year prison term, that is a minute detail in the epilogue of horrors, not to be glib, but it was hell.






180 Proof September 26, 2022 at 00:10 #742439
Closure: A Story of Everything, Hilary Lawson
Pantagruel October 01, 2022 at 15:54 #743887
Foundations of Transcendental Philosophy
by Johann Gottlieb Fichte
Manuel October 02, 2022 at 06:06 #744036
New World by Natsuo Kirino.

Also ploughing extremely slowly through Locke's Essay this time around.
Deus October 02, 2022 at 19:26 #744166
The Tempest - By some guy called William or other
Maw October 03, 2022 at 19:00 #744588
Nietzche, The Aristocratic Rebel by Domenico Losurdo

Excited to dive into this
T Clark October 03, 2022 at 19:23 #744599
Quoting javi2541997
Autumn readings

Captain Shigemoto's Mother, Jun'ichir? Tanizaki.
Rivers, Teru Miyamoto.
Beauty and Sadness, Yasunari Kawabata.


I told you, no more Japanese reading. Except for those cool porno comics.
javi2541997 October 03, 2022 at 19:55 #744613
Quoting T Clark
I told you, no more Japanese reading. Except for those cool porno comics.


:lol: ! I promise those are the last books of Japanese literature in my room. I will read other types of literature in the coming months.
T Clark October 03, 2022 at 20:04 #744619
Quoting javi2541997
I promise those are the last books of Japanese literature in my room. I will read other types of literature in the coming months.


User image
Tom Storm October 03, 2022 at 20:13 #744623
Quoting 180 Proof
Closure: A Story of Everything, Hilary Lawson


Great timing. I'd value your thoughts on this and Lawson - would you mind offering a brief assessment when you're done? I saw an extended interview with Lawson on his notion of closure and his non-realist metaphysics and found myself being sympathetic.
Jamal October 12, 2022 at 10:26 #747615
Current
Jorge Luis Borges, Fictions :up: :sparkle:

Recent
Italo Calvino, If on a Winter's Night a Traveller :up: :sparkle:
Christopher Priest, The Dream Archipelago :up: :sparkle:
Robert Silverberg, Downward to the Earth :up: / :meh:
T Clark October 12, 2022 at 14:12 #747649
Quoting Jamal
Italo Calvino, If on a Winter's Night a Traveller


From the Wikipedia description, this sounds all post-modernist and self-referential and stuff. It seems like it might be fun and funny, but I could also see it might be tedious and obvious. From your emojis it seems like it's not that.
Jamal October 12, 2022 at 14:44 #747653
Quoting T Clark
this sounds all post-modernist and self-referential and stuff


Yep, I like that kind of thing.

Quoting T Clark
It seems like it might be fun and funny, but I could also see it might be tedious and obvious. From your emojis it seems like it's not that.


I loved it, but I gather that several other intelligent readers do indeed find it tedious and obvious.

EDIT: Incidentally, I posted something about it in the Shoutbox a few hours ago. It’s also relevant to your discussions of literary interpretation.
T Clark October 12, 2022 at 14:53 #747654
Quoting Jamal
Incidentally, I posted something about it in the Shoutbox a few hours ago. It’s also relevant to your discussions of literary interpretation.


Yes, I saw that. That's why I asked. Thanks.
Jamal October 12, 2022 at 14:54 #747655
Reply to T Clark Yeh, I forgot you already responded to that post.
T Clark October 12, 2022 at 15:53 #747680
Quoting Jamal
I loved it, but I gather that several other intelligent readers do indeed find it tedious and obvious.


Got it from the library electronically. What a wonderful world we live in.
Jamal October 12, 2022 at 18:20 #747734
Reply to T Clark :cool:

I know you have a cherished dislike of emojis, so I’ll translate: cool.
Jamal October 12, 2022 at 18:26 #747737
Reply to T Clark There are a couple of sections in the book that I did find a bit tedious, but on the whole I thought it was intelligent, insightful, inventive, and, most importantly, playful and light, though not in a remotely stupid or trivial way.
Pantagruel October 16, 2022 at 10:19 #748864
Existential Anthropology: Events, Exigencies, and Effects
by Michael D. Jackson
180 Proof October 21, 2022 at 09:45 #750346
Revolutionary Jews from Spinoza to Marx: The Fight for a Secular World of Universal and Equal Rights, Jonathan Israel
Noble Dust October 23, 2022 at 19:19 #750857
The Stand - Stephen King :groan:
180 Proof October 23, 2022 at 22:32 #750937
August-December readings:

Due to laser surgery to treat acute retinapathy in early September and again a couple of weeks ago, I'm still reading the following:
Quoting 180 Proof
August-October readings:

Meeting the Universe Halfway: Quantum Physics and the Entanglement of Matter and Meaning, Karen Barad
Critical Realism: An Introduction to Roy Bhaskar's Philosophy, Andrew Collier
The Origin of Phenomena, D. B. Kelley
Quantum Ontology: A Guide to the Metaphysics of Quantum Mechanics, Peter Lewis
Defending the Axioms: On the Philosophical Foundations of Set Theory, Penelope Maddy
Giving Beyond The Gift: Apophasis and Overcoming Theomania, Elliot Wolfson

Also added to the pile

Philosophy in Crisis, Mario Bunge
A Philosophy of the Unsayable, William Franke
Revolutionary Jews from Spinoza to Marx, Jonathan Israel

rereading:

Philosophical Perspectives on Infinity, Graham Oppy


javi2541997 October 25, 2022 at 04:57 #751372
Rouse Up O Young Men of the New Age!, Kenzaburo Oe
Asleep, Banana Yoshimoto
Hunger; Pan, Knut Hamsun.
T Clark October 25, 2022 at 16:27 #751478
Quoting javi2541997
Rouse Up O Young Men of the New Age!, Kenzaburo Oe
Asleep, Banana Yoshimoto
Hunger; Pan, Knut Hamsun.


Where in Japan is Knut Hamsun from?
javi2541997 October 25, 2022 at 16:39 #751484
Quoting T Clark
Where in Japan is Knut Hamsun from?


Aomori!

Jokes aside, I want to give a try on Nordic existentialists.
Pantagruel October 26, 2022 at 11:24 #751699
Understanding and Explanation: A Transcendental-Pragmatic Perspective
by Karl-Otto Apel

edit: @180 Proof
I see you are very familiar with this work. Not too many references to Apel on TPF either.
_db October 26, 2022 at 20:41 #751796
The Worst Journey in the World, Apsley Cherry-Garrard.
The Right to Sex: Feminism in the Twenty-First Century, Amia Srinivasan.
Talking to My Daughter About the Economy or, How Capitalism Works - and How It Fails, Yanis Varoufakis.
Pantagruel October 31, 2022 at 17:36 #752881
Introduction to Systems Theory
by Niklas Luhmann
Jamal November 02, 2022 at 06:50 #753202
Ubik by Philip K. Dick. I think I'm finally beginning to appreciate his work.

Just got a copy of Against the Day by Thomas Pynchon. That's 1232 pages that will keep me occupied for a while.
Jamal November 03, 2022 at 08:30 #753437
Mason & Dixon by Thomas Pynchon.

Reply to Manuel I thought I ought to finish it before starting Against the Day. It's good to be back into it.
Manuel November 03, 2022 at 12:12 #753483
Reply to Jamal

Cool! Mason & Dixon is wonderful.

I did not like Against the Day too much, maybe your experience will differ.

Jamal November 03, 2022 at 14:57 #753525
Quoting Manuel
Mason & Dixon is wonderful


I agree. I've found it fairly easy to get back into the language, although I've forgotten some of the characters. I reckon I'll re-read it in the near future.
Noble Dust November 04, 2022 at 01:20 #753784
Quoting Jamal
Ubik by Philip K. Dick. I think I'm finally beginning to appreciate his work.


Excellent. Curious to hear your thoughts.

The Battle For God: A History of Fundamentalism - Karen Armstrong
Maw November 04, 2022 at 04:04 #753801
Reply to 180 Proof

This has been on my list to read but I've been waiting for the paperback edition (along with The Enlightenment That Failed)
180 Proof November 04, 2022 at 07:48 #753819
Reply to Maw Damn goid stuff. :up:
Jamal November 04, 2022 at 08:15 #753823
Quoting Noble Dust
Excellent. Curious to hear your thoughts.


It's a wild ride, very enjoyable, original, and stimulating, and obviously hugely influential. He's full of ideas and has the ability to pile them up and repeatedly surprise while also maintaning a good story. He can make you feel you know a character with only a few words. He makes ideas as exciting as action. The corny, anachronistic, sixties-drenched stuff won't please people who look to science fiction for credible predictions (at least about technology), but it's humorously weird and also obviously satirical. The descriptions of clothing are ridiculous and seemingly pointless, but perhaps knowingly so. I liked that about it.

The ending threw me off. I can't tell if it was a mischievous afterthought or if it had been part of the design all along. It ends making you feel like the layers of reality can continue to be peeled back indefinitely.

So I like it a lot and I'm happy for people to class him as one of the literary greats of the twentieth century, and yet something about it rubs me the wrong way. Never mind the unreliable narrator: I feel with Dick we have an unreliable author. I don't quite trust him or feel an affinity with where he's coming from. I can get used to the occasionally clunky prose, even though I sometimes find it annoying, and I don't mind that characters are still using phone books in a world of commercialized precognition, flying cars and robot shop assistants, but there's something bordering on madness that's a bit alienating (could be I'm just saying that because I know he went mad in the end, in which case strike it from the record).

Also I think he uncritically assumes a philosophical position that I don't get along with, namely the soul or mind as in principle independent of the body and the physical world, as in fact tied down by the physical world to its detriment. This seems basic and unexamined for Dick, but to me it's a cliché.

I'll definitely read more though.
Noble Dust November 04, 2022 at 16:30 #753919
Quoting Jamal
It ends making you feel like the layers of reality can continue to be peeled back indefinitely.


I think that was my impression. It was a bit cheeky. He was known to write a lot of these novels under deadlines and on a wide variety of drugs, so my guess is that very last bit wasn't very premeditated. I can understand the frustration. It didn't bother me so much, but my feelings on endings are apparent from my short story contest submissions...

Quoting Jamal
there's something bordering on madness that's a bit alienating


I get that, and yeah, I've always assumed that his own mental states influenced this aspect of his stories. I don't think it's correct to say he went mad, though. There's an interview with him on French television on youtube towards the end of his life that shows him as very cogent, to me at least.

Quoting Jamal
Also I think he uncritically assumes a philosophical position that I don't get along with, namely the soul or mind as in principle independent of the body


He was very deep into investigating spirituality, mysticism, religion, etc. It's a hallmark of his work, and it's more and more a part of it later in the chronology. So I suppose that automatically alienates some readers.

But why charge a fiction author with uncritically assuming a philosophical position? Isn't that a given? It's a story, not a treatise.
Jamal November 04, 2022 at 16:35 #753923
Quoting Noble Dust
It didn't bother me so much


It didn't really bother me either; it was just disorientating. To end the book "making you feel like the layers of reality can continue to be peeled back indefinitely" is far from being a bad thing.

Quoting Noble Dust
But why charge a fiction author with uncritically assuming a philosophical position? Isn't that a given? It's a story, not a treatise.


Well I agree with you, and that's one reason I'm going to read more of his work.
Noble Dust November 04, 2022 at 16:41 #753924
Baden November 04, 2022 at 20:24 #753980
The Science of Storytelling - Will Storr

Excellent. For its general theory of how human minds operate, for its exposition of effective narrative and for how well written it is.
180 Proof November 05, 2022 at 03:10 #754040
Reply to Baden Thanks! :up:
Baden November 06, 2022 at 21:38 #754477
Reply to 180 Proof

Welcome bruv, think you'd like it.
Manuel November 07, 2022 at 15:39 #754724
Reply to Jamal

A Scanner Darkly, Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said, The Three Stigmata of Palmer Palmer Eldritch, Dr. Bloodmoney, A Maze of Death, etc., etc.

He's fantastic and highly philosophical.

And also, he was schizophrenic and detailed this episode in his book VALIS and followed it up with two more books. Very strange beliefs, but unique, nonetheless.
Jamal November 07, 2022 at 17:36 #754762
Noble Dust November 07, 2022 at 21:17 #754827
Reply to Manuel

A Scanner Darkly is next on my list. Or maybe I should go back to his earlier period first. I haven’t read Dr. Bloodmoney...
Manuel November 07, 2022 at 23:10 #754866
Reply to Noble Dust

I think A Scanner Darkly was his best, or at least, tied with Ubik, certainly not worth watching the animated film of Scanner, it was garbage. The novel is fantastic, and his best prose by far.

Dr. Bloodmoney I remember liking quite a bit but remember very little of it. I went on a binge and read 14 of his books in 3 weeks, so, that might be the reason.

I think he has good stuff in all his periods, though I personally did not think too much of his VALIS work. But ymmv.
Noble Dust November 08, 2022 at 01:58 #754899
Reply to Manuel

Cool, Scanner has been on the docket for too long for me. I liked VALIS, but it is bizarre. I don't think I understood it (not sure if it can be). But I want to re-read it. I actually felt that The Divine Invasion was excellent; I think it's overlooked. The atmosphere he creates in the last act reminds me of UBIK. The Transmigration of Timothy Archer I couldn't get through.
Maw November 08, 2022 at 05:04 #754924
Marx's Concept of the Alternative to Capitalism by Peter Hudis
180 Proof November 08, 2022 at 05:52 #754936
Reply to Maw I'm curious how you find Hudis' read of Marx's corpus. Have you read After Capitalism by David Schweickart? If not, I can't recommend it more highly, comrade.

Pantagruel November 08, 2022 at 13:14 #754992
Reconstruction in Philosophy
by John Dewey
Maw November 09, 2022 at 00:57 #755155
Reply to 180 Proof I have read it, you actually recommended it to me a long time ago (I think like 2012)! It's been about a decade since I've read it though, so might need to re-read and compare with Hudis' view.
180 Proof November 09, 2022 at 01:06 #755158
Reply to Maw :cool:
180 Proof November 10, 2022 at 14:42 #755436
December readings ...

The Many Worlds of Hugh Everett III, Peter Byrne
The Passenger, Cormac McCarthy
Stella Maris, Cormac McCarthy
Pantagruel November 14, 2022 at 13:18 #756181
Lord Foul's Bane
by Stephen R. Donaldson
Heracloitus November 14, 2022 at 14:17 #756185
Quoting Pantagruel
Lord Foul's Bane
by Stephen R. Donaldson


Nice to see this show up here. I have the whole set of Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. One of my favourite antiheroes :smile:
Pantagruel November 14, 2022 at 15:03 #756199
Reply to Heracloitus My favourite fantasy series, alongside the Deathgate Cycle.
Maw November 15, 2022 at 01:32 #756313
Quoting 180 Proof
I'm curious how you find Hudis' read of Marx's corpus. Have you read After Capitalism by David Schweickart? If not, I can't recommend it more highly, comrade.


I finished Peter Hudis' book and found it to be a well-grounded, well-reasoned, at at times an eye-opening reading of Marx's work and perspective. Per the title of the book, Marx does not delineate concrete mechanisms or detailed institutional forms that would comprise a post-capitalist, socialist society. Rather, Marx provides some conceptual lodestars. The most concise summary I can offer is that Marx's concept of the alternative to capitalism centers on the production process and humanity's social relationship to it. Marx wishes to flip the script so-to-speak, or inverse the subject-predicate logic that infests our current socio-economic horror show. Rather than value-production dominating and alienating the wage-labor that creates it, as we see in capitalism, the "total aggregate product" of a free and democratic association of labor "is a social product", which "remains social to renew or reproduce the means of production" or is consumed by individuals as subsistence as determined by "labor-time" (crucially distinct from socially necessary labor time, which is unique to the capitalist mode of production). The distribution and application of the social component to the social product requires conscious and democratic discussion and debate, the form of which Marx does not articulate or detail (aside from being "democratic) as the organization is up to the free association of producers.

Alternatives which fundamentally center on distribution, the abolition or alternatives to the market or private property, will continue to rely on a core constituent of capitalism, value-production, and its autonomous force that eclipses the autonomous power of free and democratic association of labor which is why (among other things) Marx wouldn't have called the USSR "socialist", "communist" etc. ("Capital without Capitalists").

Turning to David Schweickart's work, which as I said before I haven't read in about a decade and have recently just skimmed the section on the basic model of Economic Democracy. I think there are some elements that Marx would agree with and much that he would not. Focusing on the latter, most significantly, I think Marx would criticize Schweickart's "Social Control of Investment" as driven by the anarchic and autonomous force of value-production and therefore not centered of the free association of producers. As Schweickart himself states, "I use the term socialist to refer to any attempt to transcend capitalism by abolishing most private ownership of means of production". Marx would disagree on this appellative change as the abolition of private property does not entail the abolition of capital, and therefore its autonomous force of value-production remains intact. "Private property," writes Marx, "is the result, the necessary consequence of alienated labor". The "conceptual pivot" of Marx, writes Hudis, "the heart of the problem is abolishing capital itself, by ending the estrangement in the very activity of laboring."

Marx's conceptualization of the alternative to capitalism remains quite abstract, which I'm sure some might find unsatisfying. However, perhaps this is the price we pay now, for a future which will hopefully be deliberated, debated and exercised among and centered on a free and democratic association of social producers. I'll have to reread Schweickart's After Capitalism again this winter and chew on this more.
Maw November 15, 2022 at 02:00 #756324
The Civil War in the Unites States, Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels edited by Andrew Zimmerman
180 Proof November 15, 2022 at 02:10 #756329
Reply to Maw Thanks for the precis. From my studies of Marx decades ago there doesn't seem much new or applicable to the real world in Peter Hudis' account. Schweickhart, being both a philosopher and economist, makes much more sense to me with his very concrete, historically-situated, post-capitalist conjecture.
_db November 18, 2022 at 04:07 #757259
This Nonviolent Stuff'll Get You Killed: How Guns Made the Civil Rights Movement Possible, Charles E. Cobb Jr.
Maw November 22, 2022 at 05:56 #758012
Old Gods, New Engimas: Marx's Lost Theory by Mike Davis
Pantagruel November 23, 2022 at 12:11 #758257
Oneself as Another
by Paul Ricœur

Keen to read this as it is relates to my own 'core hypothesis': as individual thinkers we are critically limited by our (in)ability to project absolute freedom on others, the ultimate cognitive bias, thus are prevented from realizing that power ourselves, through the inexorable logic of reciprocity.
T Clark November 23, 2022 at 19:00 #758350
My favorite books, books that influenced me the most, and books that blew my mind:

  • "Heart of Darkness" by Joseph Conrad.
  • "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy" and "Smiley's People" by John LeCarre.
  • "The Tao Te Ching" by Lao Tzu.
  • "The Panda's Thumb" and other books of collected essays on evolution by Stephen Jay Gould.
  • "Freedom, not License" by A.S. Neil.
  • "Subtle is the Lord" a scientific biography of Einstein by Abraham Pais.
  • "The Collected Poetry of Robert Frost".
  • "Life's Ratchet" by Peter Hoffman.
  • "Self-reliance" by R.W. Emerson.
  • "An Essay on Metaphysics" by R.G. Collingwood.
  • "Foundation" by Isaac Asimov.
  • "The Autobiography of a Slimy Weasel" by Donald Trump Jr.
  • "The Origin of Species" by Charles Darwin.
  • "The Culture of Narcissism" by Christopher Lasch.
  • "Titus Groan" by Mervyn Peake.



Heracloitus November 23, 2022 at 20:23 #758357
Quoting T Clark
Titus Groan" by Mervyn Peake


Yep there is nothing quite like this trilogy.
180 Proof November 23, 2022 at 20:26 #758358
Quoting Maw
Old Gods, New Engimas: Marx's Lost Theory by Mike Davis

Looks interesting. :up:
Maw November 24, 2022 at 04:48 #758410
Reply to 180 Proof I've heard a lot about Mike Davis and he passed away last month so figured I should finally check him out.
javi2541997 November 25, 2022 at 16:43 #758676
December readings:
  • The Age of Blue, Yukio Mishima.
  • The Guest Cat, Takashi Hiraide.
  • Nip the Buds, Shoot the Kids, Kenzaburo Oe.


Re-reading: The Sailor Who Fell from Grace with the Sea, Yukio Mishima.
180 Proof November 25, 2022 at 22:58 #758714
Quoting javi2541997
Re-reading: The Sailor Who Fell from Grace with the Sea, Yukio Mishima.

:up:
Manuel November 26, 2022 at 03:14 #758740
Lady Joker (Volume 2) by Kaoru Takamura

Still re-reading Locke's Essay, been having lots of trouble concentrating this second time around - fantastic book though, worth re-evaluation imo.
Maw November 28, 2022 at 19:28 #759148
Christendom Destroyed: Europe 1517-1648 by Mark Greengrass
Jamal December 02, 2022 at 10:24 #760099
Just read Inherent Vice by Thomas Pynchon. To begin with I found it a bit annoying, and even once I got into it I thought it was kind of forgettable and ephemeral. Then in the second half it became more involving, and now I've finished it I miss it. In any case it's a lot of fun and paints a picture of a world I knew little about (early seventies Los Angeles, the tail end of the hippie dream). So I'll give it the much-coveted :up: :sparkle:

Before I take on the monster that is his Against the Day, I'm currently reading Pnin by Vladimir Nabokov.
Manuel December 02, 2022 at 13:07 #760130
Reply to Jamal

I'd suggest V or GR before Against the Day. It can be a real possibility that this latter book will erode your endurance. It's not a bad book by any means, but it far inferior to V and GR. V is probably his most fun book.

But good luck with whatever you choose. Inherent Vice was quite fun.
Jamal December 02, 2022 at 13:10 #760131
Quoting Manuel
I'd suggest V or GR before Against the Day. It can be a real possibility that this latter book will erode your endurance. It's not a bad book by any means, but it far inferior to V and GR. V is probably his most fun book.


Thank you for this excellent advice, which I have decided to ignore. :grin:
Manuel December 02, 2022 at 13:17 #760132
Reply to Jamal

It's your mind pal.

As he says in ATD: Good Luck.

:victory:
Jamal December 09, 2022 at 02:54 #762044
Pnin by Vladimir Nabokov, which I just finished, is stunningly good.

Now...

User image
Paine December 09, 2022 at 21:16 #762287
The Dawn of Everything by David Graeber and David Wengrow.

A great challenge to many past and current views of human prehistory. In addition to the scientific research, the book specifically discusses elements of 'Enlightenment' political thinkers that made me glad I had accidentally read them in the past.
Pantagruel December 19, 2022 at 18:01 #765052
Reply to Paine I really liked this book, especially the exploration of the wisdom and depths of the indigenous world-view.

Cartesian Meditations
by Edmund Husserl
Pantagruel December 19, 2022 at 19:26 #765065
[i]Swann's Way
(À la recherche du temps perdu #1)[/i]
by Marcel Proust

ISO...lost time. Thanks Amazon!
Boxed Set


Paine December 19, 2022 at 21:50 #765091
Reply to Pantagruel
I, too, was greatly impressed by the influence of indigenous voices, both as a competing vision of social order and how the thinking in Europe was changed through the encounters.

What I find most interesting is the challenge to the 'stages of development' framework often used to link human capacity to particular levels of organization. The presentation reveals a bias that I did not realize that I was keeping alive.

180 Proof December 20, 2022 at 01:17 #765122
On the Problem of Empathy: The Collected Works of Edith Stein (vol. 3), Edith Stein
Jamal December 20, 2022 at 11:30 #765183
Quoting Pantagruel
ISO...lost time


Awesome box set.

Years ago I read the first two volumes but faltered in the third, which means I may have to begin at the beginning again if I want to read the whole thing (which I do). That's no bad thing, because those first two are excellent.
Pantagruel December 20, 2022 at 11:52 #765186
Reply to Jamal Yes, I have been wanting to tackle this for some time. I'm transitioning to semi-retirement in the new year so I can make the time to do it justice. First impression, it is pleasantly readable.
Jamal December 20, 2022 at 11:54 #765188
Reply to Pantagruel Yes, it does demand commitment, though as you say it's not all that difficult to read (if you don't mind long sentences).

Enjoy the journey.
Manuel December 20, 2022 at 18:45 #765268
Reply to Jamal

Hah! I will say, that opening quote is probably my favorite of all time.

I really hope you enjoy it. I stopped at pg. 910 - no joke. Yes, I am that stupid.

:victory:
Jamal December 20, 2022 at 20:25 #765301
Quoting Manuel
I really hope you enjoy it. I stopped at pg. 910 - no joke. Yes, I am that stupid


300 pages in and loving it.
Pantagruel December 26, 2022 at 18:10 #766647
Philosophy in the Flesh: The Embodied Mind and its Challenge to Western Thought
by George Lakoff, Mark Johnson

I've seen this book mentioned a few times on TPF. Looks really good.
Maw December 27, 2022 at 18:00 #766874
The Glorious Revolution by Edward Vallance
Maw December 27, 2022 at 18:13 #766877
The above will most likely be my last book of the year so time again for my annual reading list. Sadly will be missing @Streetlight's list and recommended readings this year. In 2022 I read:

  • Critique of Commodity Aesthetics: Appearance, Sexuality, and Advertising in Capitalist Society by W.F Haug
  • Time, Capitalism and Alienation. A Socio-Historical Inquiry into the Making of Modern Time by Jonathan Martineau
  • The Ego and The Id by Freud (reread)
  • Beyond the Pleasure Principle by Freud (reread)
  • Civilization and Its Discontents by Sigmund Freud
  • Écrits by Jacques Lacan
  • On the Reproduction of Capitalism by Louis Althusser
  • Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism by Vladimir Lenin
  • Left-Wing Melancholia: Marxism, History, and Memory by Enzo Traverso
  • The Sublime Object of Ideology by Slavoj Žižek
  • Distinction by Pierre Bourdieu
  • Imperialism in the Twenty-First Century: Globalization, Super-Exploitation, and Capitalism’s Final Crisis by John Smith
  • Value Chains: The New Economic Imperialism by Intan Suwandi
  • Caliban and the Witch: Women, the Body, and Primative Accumulation by Silvia Federici
  • Battle Cry of Freedom: The Civil War Era by James McPherson
  • The Making of Bourgeois Europe: Absolutism, Revolution and the Rise of Capitalism in England, France and Germany by Colin Mooers
  • Empire of Capital by Ellen Wood
  • The Inheritance of Rome: A History of Europe from 400 to 1000 by Christopher Wickham
  • Medieval Europe by Chris Wickham
  • Class Conflict and the Crisis of Feudalism: Essays in Medieval Social History by Rodney Hilton
  • Le Morte d'Arthur by Thomas Malory
  • Landscapes: John Berger on Art by John Berger
  • Cultures of Uneven and Combined Development: From International Relations to World Literature edited by James Christie and Nesrin Degirmencioglu
  • Art History as Social Praxis: The Collected Writings of David Craven edited by Brian Winkenweder
  • Nietzche, The Aristocratic Rebel by Domenico Losurdo
  • Marx's Concept of the Alternative to Capitalism by Peter Hudis
  • The Civil War in the Unites States, Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels edited by Andrew Zimmerman
  • Old Gods, New Engimas: Marx's Lost Theory by Mike Davis
  • Christendom Destroyed: Europe 1517-1648 by Mark Greengrass
  • The Glorious Revolution by Edward Vallance
javi2541997 December 28, 2022 at 17:55 #767182
Killing Commendatore Part I and II, Haruki Murakami.
javi2541997 December 28, 2022 at 18:34 #767190
My 2022 list of Japanese books I read:

Yukio Mishima:

[i]Confessions of a Mask.
Thirst for Love
The Age of Blue
The Sound of Waves
The Temple of the Golden Pavilion
After the Banquet
Runaway Horses
The Decay of the Angel.[/i]

Yasunari Kawabata:

[i]The Dancing Girl of Izu
The Scarlet Gang of Asakusa
Snow Country
Thousand Cranes
The Lake
The House of the Sleeping Beauties
The Old Capital
Beauty and Sadness
Palm-of-the-Hand Stories.[/i]

Jun'ichir? Tanizaki:

[i]Some Prefer Nettles
In Praise of Shadows
Seven Japanese Tales[/i]

Haruki Murakami:

[i]Hear the Wind Sing
Pinball, 1973
A Wild Sheep Chase
Sputnik Sweetheart[/i]

Kenzaburo O?:

[i]A Personal Matter
Nip the Buds, Shoot the Kids
Rouse Up O Young Men of the New Age![/i]

Seicho Matsumoto:

Far Approach

Shintaro Ishihara:

[i]Season of the Sun
The Eclipse of Yukio Mishima,[/i]

Teru Miyamoto:

Muddy River

Looking for reading even more Japanese works in 2023.
Pantagruel December 29, 2022 at 13:16 #767401
2022 Summary. My favourite fictions this year were The Glass Bead Game and Jude the Obscure. For non-fiction, I really enjoyed The Dawn of Everything.

  • Madness and Civilization: A History of Insanity in the Age of Reason by Michel Foucault
  • Discipline and Punish: The Birth of the Prison by Michel Foucault
  • Foundations Of Cognitive Science by Michael I. Posner
  • The Forever War (The Forever War, #1) by Joe Haldeman
  • The Future of the Mind by Michio Kaku
  • Conceptual Issues in Psychology by Elizabeth R. Valentine
  • Jude the Obscure by Thomas Hardy
  • The Sociology of Knowledge by Werner Stark
  • The Mantle of Kendis-Dai (Starshield, #1) by Margaret Weis
  • The Quintessence of Socialism (Classic Reprint) by Albert Schaffle
  • Capitalism and Modern Social Theory: Marx, Durkheim and Max Weber by Anthony Giddens
  • Foundation (Foundation, #1) by Isaac Asimov
  • Foundation and Empire (Foundation, #2) by Isaac Asimov
  • Second Foundation by Isaac Asimov
  • Foundation's Edge by Isaac Asimov
  • Foundation and Earth by Isaac Asimov
  • Prelude to Foundation by Isaac Asimov
  • Forward the Foundation by Isaac Asimov
  • The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity by David Graeber
  • The Immortal Mind by Ervin Laszlo
  • A Theory of Justice by John Rawls
  • Continental Divide: Heidegger, Cassirer, Davos by Peter E. Gordon
  • On Heroes, Hero-Worship, and the Heroic in History by Thomas Carlyle
  • Political Liberalism by John Rawls
  • Desperate Remedies by Thomas Hardy
  • Jonathan Wild by Henry Fielding
  • Lectures on Ideology and Utopia by Paul Ricoeur
  • Reader, Come Home: The Reading Brain in a Digital World by Maryanne Wolf
  • The Intelligence of the Cosmos: Why Are We Here? by Ervin Laszlo
  • Tom Jones by Henry Fielding
  • Keep the Aspidistra Flying by George Orwell
  • The Philosophy of the Enlightenment (Classic Editions) by Ernst Cassirer
  • The Warden by Anthony Trollope
  • Silas Marner: The Weaver of Raveloe by George Eliot
  • Critique of Instrumental Reason by Max Horkheimer
  • Knowledge and Human Interests by Jurgen Habermas
  • The Glass Bead Game by Hermann Hesse
  • Foundations of Transcendental Philosophy 1796-99 by Johann Gottlieb Fichte
  • Existential Anthropology: Events, Exigencies, and Effects by Michael D. Jackson
  • Reconstruction in Philosophy by John Dewey
  • Understanding and Explanation: A Transcendental-Pragmatic Perspective by Karl-Otto Apel
  • Lord Foul's Bane (The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever, #1) by Stephen R. Donaldson
  • The Illearth War (The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever, #2) by Stephen R. Donaldson
  • The Power That Preserves (The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever, #3) by Stephen R. Donaldson
  • The Wounded Land (The Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, #1) by Stephen R. Donaldson
  • The One Tree (The Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, #2) by Stephen R. Donaldson
  • White Gold Wielder (The Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, #3) by Stephen R. Donaldson
  • Introduction to Systems Theory by Niklas Luhmann
  • Oneself as Another by Paul Ricoeur
  • Cartesian Meditations: An Introduction to Phenomenology by Edmund Husserl


Pantagruel January 05, 2023 at 12:42 #769677
Within a Budding Grove (À la recherche du temps perdu #2)
by Marcel Proust
Maw January 05, 2023 at 23:35 #769814
Liberty and Property: A Social History of Western Political Thought from the Renaissance to Enlightenment by Ellen Wood (rereading)
Jamal January 07, 2023 at 06:07 #770200
Quoting Manuel
I really hope you enjoy it [Against the Day by Thomas Pynchon]. I stopped at pg. 910 - no joke. Yes, I am that stupid


I’m at around page 750 and while I do love it and think I’ll probably read it again, it’s so overwhelmingly maximalist and sometimes repetitive (almost repetitive in its endless inventiveness if that makes sense) that I’m getting tempted to skip sentences. And I’m forgetting some of the characters or getting them mixed up, maybe because they haven’t been fully drawn.

But it’s far too early to assess it. When I finished Inherent Vice my thoughts were not entirely positive but I’ve come to see it as top class, so I think these things take a while to digest. Although I get the feeling that AtD is indigestible first time around.

I shall plough on.
Manuel January 07, 2023 at 19:10 #770329
Reply to Jamal

It was just lazy on my part not to force myself to read the last 100 or so pages, but I kept putting off till' it was way too late to read it, I forgot so many characters and plot that I have to start from zero.

Strangely, his prose in ATD is probably his easiest to read. I also thought quite well of Inherent Vice, the movie was shit though.
Jamal January 17, 2023 at 08:50 #773412
Nearing the end of Pynchon’s Against the Day. The mining tycoon Scarsdale Vibe, at the climax of the Colorado Coalfield War in 1914, gives a speech about workers:

[quote=Thomas Pynchon]“So of course we use them,” Scarsdale well into what by now was his customary stemwinder, “we harness and sodomize them, photograph their degradation, send them up onto the high iron and down into mines and sewers and killing floors, we set them beneath inhuman loads, we harvest from them their muscle and eyesight and health, leaving them in our kindness a few miserable years of broken gleanings. Of course we do. Why not? They are good for little else. How likely are they to grow to their full manhood, become educated, engender families, further the culture or the race? We take what we can while we may. Look at them—they carry the mark of their absurd fate in plain sight. Their foolish music is about to stop, and it is they who will be caught out, awkwardly, most of them tone-deaf and never to be fully aware, few if any with the sense to leave the game early and seek refuge before it is too late. Perhaps there will not, even by then, be refuge.

“We will buy it all up,” making the expected arm gesture, “all this country. Money speaks, the land listens, where the Anarchist skulked, where the horsethief plied his trade, we fishers of Americans will cast our nets of perfect ten-acre mesh, leveled and varmint-proofed, ready to build on. Where alien muckers and jackers went creeping after their miserable communistic dreams, the good lowland townsfolk will come up by the netful into these hills, clean, industrious, Christian, while we, gazing out over their little vacation bungalows, will dwell in top-dollar palazzos befitting our station, which their mortgage money will be paying to build for us. When the scars of these battles have long faded, and the tailings are covered in bunch-grass and wildflowers, and the coming of the snows is no longer the year’s curse but its promise, awaited eagerly for its influx of moneyed seekers after wintertime recreation, when the shining strands of telpherage have subdued every mountainside, and all is festival and wholesome sport and eugenically-chosen stock, who will be left anymore to remember the jabbering Union scum, the frozen corpses whose names, false in any case, have gone forever unrecorded? who will care that once men fought as if an eight-hour day, a few coins more at the end of the week, were everything, were worth the merciless wind beneath the shabby roof, the tears freezing on a woman’s face worn to dark Indian stupor before its time, the whining of children whose maws were never satisfied, whose future, those who survived, was always to toil for us, to fetch and feed and nurse, to ride the far fences of our properties, to stand watch between us and those who would intrude or question?” He might usefully have taken a look at Foley, attentive back in the shadows. But Scarsdale did not seek out the eyes of his old faithful sidekick. He seldom did anymore. “Anarchism will pass, its race will degenerate into silence, but money will beget money, grow like the bluebells in the meadow, spread and brighten and gather force, and bring low all before it. It is simple. It is inevitable. It has begun.”[/quote]

This is the final flourish reminding us that Vibe is the arch-villain, and it’s also a concentrated outpouring of Pynchon’s anger towards capitalism. I’ve found the stuff on US labour conflicts in the book really interesting, because I didn’t know much about it. I’m guessing this history is covered in Howard Zinn’s A People's History of the United States, a book I haven’t read.
Jamal January 17, 2023 at 20:26 #773493
Quoting Jamal
Nearing the end of Pynchon’s Against the Day.


Finished it. A big fat mess. Recommended.

Next: Stephen Gregory, The Cormorant.
frank January 17, 2023 at 20:48 #773495
Reply to Jamal

This is an old union song sung to the melody of an Appalachian spiritual.

C'mon all you working people
Good news to you I'll tell
All about how the good old union
is coming here to dwell

Which side are you on? (sung four times)

Rich man say he's gotta put us down
and educate his child.
His children live in luxury
and ours are almost wild.

Which side are you on? (sung four times)

Now we got the good fight
I know we're bound to win.
Cause we got those gun thugs
looking mighty thin.

Which side are you on? (sung four times)
Jamal January 17, 2023 at 20:50 #773496
Manuel January 17, 2023 at 22:36 #773532
That took. a. long. time.

Should've been finished much sooner, but attention issues and all. Just finished Locke's Essay for a second time. Majestic and a true classic. I will forever be a fan.

Now onto Leibniz' New Essays.

As for novels, finished reading Higashino's latest novel am now reading Tales from the Gas Station by Jack Townsend.
Pantagruel January 18, 2023 at 11:41 #773643
The Birth of Tragedy: from the Spirit of Music
by Friedrich Nietzsche
sugarr January 18, 2023 at 14:38 #773687
Quoting Manuel
Just finished Locke's Essay for a second time. Majestic and a true classic. I will forever be a fan.


I've just started reading that!
Manuel January 18, 2023 at 14:53 #773691
Reply to sugarr

It is well worth the effort, there is a treasure trove of useful and insightful stuff in it. And even in areas in which one might disagree with him, there is food for thought.

If you're stuck or need help in one section, let me know, I'm happy to help.
Pantagruel January 18, 2023 at 14:59 #773695
Quoting Manuel
Should've been finished much sooner, but attention issues and all. Just finished Locke's Essay for a second time. Majestic and a true classic. I will forever be a fan.


:up:

I haven't read this since uni but I remember being struck by the humility of the man who could write such a work, but still refer to himself as a humble "under-labourer". A must-read-again for me too.
Manuel January 18, 2023 at 15:18 #773698
Reply to Pantagruel

Yes, I think the topic of humility is one that should be re-visited again, especially in philosophy. It's really quite remarkable he could draw such arguments so soon after Newton's legendary work.

I think his arguments are, more often than not, persuasive, sober and thoughtful. I'm going to open a discussion group to talk about 3 chapters in the book.

In any case, good idea to re-read him. :up:
Maw January 20, 2023 at 05:30 #774239
Citizens: A Chronicle of the French Revolution by Simon Schama
Jamal January 25, 2023 at 08:23 #775660
The Manuscript Found in Saragossa by Jan Potocki.

Weird fiction from 1805 by a Polish count who thought he was a werewolf and killed himself with a silver bullet. As one reviewer says on Goodreads, "When there’s lesbian incest demon sex on page 11, you know you’re in for a ride."
Pantagruel January 25, 2023 at 10:33 #775674
Quoting Jamal
The Manuscript Found in Saragossa by Jan Potocki.

Weird fiction from 1805 by a Polish count who thought he was a werewolf and killed himself with a silver bullet. As one reviewer says on Goodreads, "When there’s lesbian incest demon sex on page 11, you know you’re in for a ride."


:gasp:
Pantagruel January 25, 2023 at 11:28 #775681
Feuerbach: The Roots of Socialist Philosophy
by Friedrich Engels
Pantagruel January 29, 2023 at 12:45 #776884
Global Brain: The Evolution of the Mass Mind from the Big Bang to the 21st Century
by Howard Bloom
T Clark January 30, 2023 at 01:29 #777056
Quoting Jamal
And I’m forgetting some of the characters or getting them mixed up,


This is one of the reasons I love reading on Kindle. When I forget exactly who a character is, I can just search for the first instance in the book where the person's role is usually specified. Kindle has really improved the quality of my reading.
Noble Dust January 30, 2023 at 01:33 #777058
Reply to Jamal

This looks fascinating. Recommended? Based on what you know of my taste.
T Clark January 30, 2023 at 01:35 #777059
As I've said before, "The Long Goodbye" is one of my favorite movies. Robert Altman. Elliot Gould. I decided I should read the book by Raymond Chandler. He writes really well, maybe too well. His sentences and paragraphs seem to want to draw attention to themselves, which I find distracting. The movie follows the book fairly closely, although there are changes in plot, scene, and tone that make me like the movie more, especially the ending. Much more powerful than in the book. The book takes place in the early 1950s while the movie takes place in the 1970s. Entirely different worlds.
Jamal January 30, 2023 at 03:11 #777104
Quoting Noble Dust
This looks fascinating. Recommended? Based on what you know of my taste


It’s 600 pages and I’m 200 pages in. I’m finding it mostly fascinating and enjoyable, but I don’t know if I’d recommend it unreservedly. It’s made up of innumerable nested stories told by different characters one after the other with little in the way of interior reflection from anyone, even the main character, who doesn’t seem to be a normal main character at all, more of an absent centre around which the various stories revolve. Generally it’s not concerned with character so much as diverting and odd events and dramas, like a picaresque novel.

On the other hand it involves zombies, demons and vampires that may or may not be real (I’m not sure yet); bandits and outlaws; encounters and tensions between Christians, Muslims, and Jews (including a couple of Kabbalists); plenty of sex, though never described in detail; and all things Andalusian, Spanish and Southern European.

I’m half expecting it to feel too long in the end. One of the stories I found boring and almost gave up, but I’m glad I didn’t. So far it’s hard to tell if there’s much of an overarching plot and how much the individual stories are contributing to that or whether they’ll just keep on coming and not add up to much. I’ve seen suggestions by critics that it does tie up in the end.

It reminds me a little of Don Quixote, partly because it’s set around the Sierra Morena, and also because of the multiple stories told by different characters, but Don Quixote has a character dynamic at the centre of everything, which is missing from this book.

But it’s too early to tell.
Jamal January 30, 2023 at 03:21 #777108
Quoting T Clark
This is one of the reasons I love reading on Kindle. When I forget exactly who a character is, I can just search for the first instance in the book where the person's role is usually specified. Kindle has really improved the quality of my reading.


Yes, I do that a lot.
Noble Dust January 30, 2023 at 03:24 #777110
Reply to Jamal

Hmmm, interesting. For some reason your description reminds me of Candide, which I'm not a big fan of.
Jamal January 30, 2023 at 03:32 #777113
Reply to Noble Dust Maybe a bit like that, but it’s better, and as far as I can tell it isn’t just a philosophical parable like Candide.
Tom Storm January 30, 2023 at 03:34 #777115
Quoting T Clark
The book takes place in the early 1950s while the movie takes place in the 1970s. Entirely different worlds.


Indeed.


Director Robert Altman on The Long Goodbye - Note, spoilers.

"Originally I didn’t want to do it. I’ve enjoyed reading Chandler, though I never did finish The Long Goodbye, and I liked those 1940s movies, but I just didn’t want to play around with them. I was sent the script by the producers and at first I said, I don’t want to do Raymond Chandler. If you say ‘Philip Marlowe,’ people just think of Humphrey Bogart. Robert Mitchum was being proposed for it. But I just didn’t want to do another Philip Marlowe film and have it wrap up the same way all the other films did. I think it was David Picker, the production chief at United Artists, who suggested Elliott Gould for Marlowe—and then I was interested. So I read Leigh Brackett’s script—she wrote the script of The Big Sleep for Hawks—and in her version, in the last scene, Marlowe pulled out his gun and killed his best friend, Terry Lennox. It was so out of character for Marlowe, I said, ‘I’ll do the picture, but you cannot change that ending! It must be in the contract.’ They all agreed, which was very surprising. If she hadn’t written that ending, I guarantee I wouldn’t have done it. It said, ‘This is just a movie.’ After that, we had him do his funny little dance down the road and you hear ‘Hooray for Hollywood,’ and that’s what it’s really about—Hooray for Hollywood. It even looked like a road made in a Hollywood studio. And with Eileen Wade driving past, it’s like the final scene in The Third Man! I decided that we were going to call him Rip Van Marlowe, as if he’d been asleep for twenty years, had woken up and was wandering through this landscape of the early 1970s, but trying to invoke the morals of a previous era. I put him in that dark suit, white shirt and tie, while everyone else was smelling incense and smoking pot and going topless; everything was health food and exercise and cool. So we just satirized that whole time. And that’s why that line of Elliott’s—’It’s OK with me’—became his key line throughout the film.” —Robert Altman
Noble Dust January 30, 2023 at 03:40 #777120
Reply to Jamal

Thanks for the info. Do keep us updated if you think of it.

I'm reading Leech by Hiron Ennes. It's their published debut as of 4 months ago, recommended by my writer brother. It's honestly addictive, although not for the squeamish. The author creates a very distant post-apocalyptic world which feels both realistic and fantastic at the same time. It's interesting to read "current" sci-fi/fantasy, something I never would have done if not for my brother's influence. The writing can get a bit wordy, but overall very engrossing.
Jamal January 30, 2023 at 03:51 #777129
Reply to Noble Dust Looks fun.
Noble Dust January 30, 2023 at 03:58 #777136
Reply to Jamal

Fun in a twisted sense, yes.
T Clark January 30, 2023 at 04:05 #777141
Quoting Tom Storm
Director Robert Altman on The Long Goodbye


Thanks for that. I really liked the movie. Elliot Gould was great and the rest of the cast was very good. It had a great script. But what really got me, stamped the movie into me, was that last scene. It was different from and wouldn't have made sense in the book.

Denny McClain, who played Terry Lennox, was a former baseball pitcher for the Detroit Tigers. He won 31 games in 1968, an amazing feat. I don't think he ever acted in anything else.
Jamal January 30, 2023 at 07:29 #777181
Quoting T Clark
Elliot Gould was great and the rest of the cast was very good


Including an uncredited early performance by Arnold Schwarzenegger.

I see the book and the film as two entirely different things, both good, but hard to compare. I don’t find the book’s prose to be distracting at all, maybe because I’ve read a lot of Chandler and find it very natural and comfortable. It might be his best, but it’s not my favourite, I think because it’s heavier than his other work, more emotionally revealing, tragic, and dispirited in tone.