Shawn

So, it's overly intellectualized but too plain and simple. What are you trying to say here?

I'm not sure that's relevant? If it is how so?

And how does this apply to the topic for sake of redundancy? I must have read it a couple of times but am still struggling to conceptualize it into th...

I don't quite see how this applies to the topic though. Care to elaborate?

What's overly intellectualized here? It all seems plain and simple thinking to me.

What's an asymmetry of a dichotomy?

Does anyone want to go over the Paris courtroom model to elucidate where Wittgenstein derived his conception of the picture theory?

Re-read it, and have some simple questions if you will: What do you mean by that? Ok, then what are they? So, again what are they? I don't see how the...

Isn't, at the very least, being a 'good citizen' something akin to a higher-order volition? Or the love for your family? These are things which supers...

:cool: Come post in my 'Do we have higher-order volitions?' thread. I think it aligns with your interests. Haha.

Yeah, that makes sense to me, at least. I get what you're saying that values are mental objects that have attained a status of significance to a perso...

There is a problem with this issue though. If we are all just autonomic responses and nothing more than that, then where is our free will? It's the ch...

I feel like I'm at an impasse here, creative. I don't know how to carry on this discussion with so much misunderstanding.

But they're a sine qua non, they just are. But thought and belief are just given, one cannot doubt that one is doubting. But this is confusing. Belief...

I'm uncertain about what kinds of things are those which are so rudimentary even need discovering. They just are given. Anyhow, I don't want to bug yo...

Can you expand on this?

Well, I feel as though the limits of what can be said, via sensory information or input, is what you seem to be talking about. Or to pose the question...

So, I read it all; but, no question was posited. I can't but help as though the grand conclusion is that whereof one cannot speak thereof one must be ...

So, for example love can be a higher order volition. But, that higher order volition has intrinsic value that can't be ever be fully objectified.

Favorite topic? Wittgenstein.

I think vales are a different subject, although values are pretty close to higher order volition's. The difference it would seem is that values are st...

Yes, but I don't want to create the impression that desires are battling for attention in the back of ones mind or ones unconscious. Higher order voli...

Yes, but having higher order volition's means that some inconsistency will eventually arise. No?

They can be. Not necessarily so. I agree, and think you're right. I don't know what you mean by that. Self consistency?

I don't know what you're implying here; but, I figure what your advocating for is an earlier age to maturity or at least treating individuals as matur...

Yes, but it comes down to the nuclear family, and those conditions. The best social environment doesn't matter if the nuclear family is dysfunctional....

Well, self-love is almost entirely self cultivated. But, it can be encouraged through education and such to a person. I take it you live in some Scand...

Well, yes. To some extent we can be programmed and told what volition is desirable for society or otherwise. To have a new car, a family, procreate-ha...

So, what is happening when we pause and reflect on an action before it is undertaken? Is there indeed some higher order volition operating in the back...

But, people do have conflicting desires. Theres a conflict in the drug users mind as to how badly they want to get better. Higher order volition's see...

The wiki points out that there is a higher order desire to get better rather than indulge in trying to get a fix. All of this seems intuitively clear....

Oh, OK. :cool:

Well, I started a separate thread about that here. Well, surely the longer term goal is of a higher order or of greater importance than the short term...

If we apply, as you say, the philosopher's imaginary friend (which I think is a useful term), then does this not entail a higher-order want/desire/pas...

Please elaborate. What do you mean here?

Yes, True. So, if we add in the passions to the discussion, then isn't this talk about 'volitions' and not reason and passions operating in seemingly ...

Yes, I do agree to some degree. I think there are higher order volition's, which seems like the apt term to use; such, as 'love' or 'envy' or 'jealous...

So, you have said it yourself, that reason can inform the passions through none other than reason alone, that some goal is undesirable rather than ano...

I'm reading Jonah Goldberg's, Liberal Fascism, and he does make that point in the book. Where did you service your conclusion, from that book too?

It need not be. Philosophy of Religion is what this is and I think it belongs here, if people can be civil enough to discuss the topic with their o so...

Settle down Captain Happy.

Must be a conspiracy. That Q anon shiet I'm reading about is off the rails loony.

Oh, I'm just gullible. Haha.

You scared me there for a moment. I didn't think things would be that terrible. :fear:

Just who is this appealing to? Is his base that twisted?

???

Yes, I know how this argument goes. But, if it helps, you can think about it being a type of brain in the vat type scenario, just that this "brain" co...

If you're interested I spit off a rather proto-typical discussion about AI, which I haven't seen hereabouts yet. Your input welcome: https://thephilos...

I read Max Tegmark's Life 3.0, and he mentions some topics which I have been thinking about myself. But, in my mind, the alignment problem can be solv...

There is one other option that doesn't get entertained enough... Namely, what if the human mind we're simulated itself? Wouldn't then AI or general AI...