Down The Rabbit Hole

Hi, How did you discover antinatalism?

(Assuming that our rules of logic are the same in the illusion and reality) I think that's the only reason reality is more probable - because there ar...

Would you say that a person killed has been deprived of life's good? If so, the unborn are not deprived of life's good solely due to their non-existen...

Aren't you making the exact same "non-existence argument" as you are dismissing from @"Benkei"?

Our experience as to its realness is the same. Because, by definition, we wouldn't be able to tell an illusion from reality. I think Ockham's razor mi...

Yes, I wouldn't like the illusion of a toothache either. A "dream within a dream". Have you seen the film Inception? Yes, even when you're in a dream/...

I'm looking to test my arguments, and I'm not that interested in convincing others of them, so insults and "poisoning the well" wouldn't make much dif...

Maybe not an actually existing infinity that would be subject to paradoxes, but a potential infinity is possible. Universe/s could exist or spawn fore...

@"David Pearce" Come to think of it, you may have been talking about the possibility of an infinite multiverse, where suffering is, well, infinite? Is...

@"David Pearce" I remember you saying something to the effect that you dread the thought of the existence of extra-terrestrial life. What probabilitie...

David, at some point after implementation of the technology (maybe after 300 years, maybe after 1000 years, maybe after a million years) it is bound t...

Thank you very much for the response. I brought up the pinprick argument, as despite being a NU myself, I believe it defeats Benatar's asymmetry theor...

If the lie detector shows that they think they exist, and they do in fact exist, they have proven to us that they know they exist.

Assuming that we already believe the person subject to the lie detector test exists. The result will prove to us if they know that they exist.

David, hope you are well. Anti-natalism is regularly discussed on this forum, with members having different degrees of sympathy towards it. You descri...

Yes to prove it beyond any doubt. I'm not sure it would be physically possible for a lie detector to be perfect.

If lie detectors become more accurate, this should do the job?

Great - I've been a fan of David's for years. I'm sure @"schopenhauer1" et al would be interested in his suffering focused ethics.

Thank you for everyone's comments. Rapists can only rape when opportunities for doing so arise. When we're talking about factory farming, it is our ac...

They are only doing it because the opportunity has provided itself to them. No way would they go out and find that amount of animals to abuse. And the...

The abuse is a consequence of us buying the products.

Yes, I am talking about the abuse. My point is that the animals are only suffering the abuse because people are paying for them to be factory farmed. ...

I think to be consistent in their principles an antinatalist would have to be in favour of veganism. My view is that it is not always wrong to procrea...

:naughty: I don't know for sure, but it's extremely likely considering that they have nerves and a brain, and they scream and cry, and show signs of t...

:grimace: To be honest, I probably wouldn't have been able to refuse in that position either, especially if I wasn't financially independent. In my vi...

I would be in favour of interfering with natural to reduce suffering. The scenario you have put has a lot of variables that need to be taken into cons...

The industry uses the term "humane slaughter" - but as you say, it's rare that death is free of pain/suffering. Maybe in the future science will allow...

Thank you everyone for your comments The aforesaid beatings and torture would not happen if people didn't pay for the animals products. Surely one sho...

Yes, your view in that murder thread wasn't too popular :smile: I'm 100% with you on prioritising suffering though.

I see where you're going with that question. If one believes that deadly force is justified if the only way to avoid experiencing extreme physical pai...

I agree. I don't think consciousness is immaterial either, and saying that consciousness is an illusion is unhelpful, and it comes across as an abuse ...

Saying that, the question of whether reproduction should be regulated i.e. child limits, is a political question. From your previous posts I take it y...

The left/right politics is how we deal with this mess now it's happened.

It seems about right to me. In view of evolution (including by-products of gene survival traits) being an explanation for pretty much everything about...

You cannot know for sure, but a decision on whether to procreate could be made on the most likely outcome. Whether most lives are net positive or nega...

I don't understand where imagination would come from if not from evolution (including by-products of other evolutionary traits). What do you mean by u...

In my view, procreation that leads to a life of mostly suffering is wrong, and procreation that leads to a life of mostly pleasure is right. The quest...

Following a different path, these things could have been created sooner, and/or have lead to better creations.

I cannot see a flaw in your argument; the EM would provide more preference satisfaction than RL. However, I believe preference theory is built on air....

I was pre-empting an argument that any finite suffering will always be outweighed by the infinite joy of the afterlife. By the same token, it would no...

Given the mystery of consciousness, the possibility that all matter is sentient to some extent (panpsychism), is taken seriously by philosophers. Notw...

We were only given it to increase the survival chances of the genes. This is all evolution cares about; it doesn't care about our suffering (some peop...

I think the best negative utilitarian utility monster would be a monster that suffers greater than any other being, but they would get much less utili...

It is possible for an all-loving god to allow evil, despite having the power to stop it. However, considering that people suffer in hell for eternity ...

When I say inheritable, I don't mean that they are always inherited. It just means that we have an increased chance of inheriting the optimistic/pessi...

Yes, optimism and pessimism are inheritable.

David identifies as a 'soft antinatalist'. While he acknowledges that procreating is wrong, he believes that as the genes of the optimists will be pas...

A Negative Utilitarian focuses on reducing suffering. If a potential life is likely to be net suffering, it would be consistent for them to oppose its...

As libertarians want to minimize state intervention, it would be consistent with their position, and if permitting this would maximize happiness and w...

Suffering focused ethics are a minority view, especially antinatalism etc. While you should disengage when it becomes too stressful, without challenge...