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Michael

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I'm not convinced that it need be recursive. It's sufficient that each person knows that each person knows that green sees blue. If we assume that the...
July 28, 2025 at 17:15
Here's my best attempt to prove this: 1. As of right now, everyone has come to know that everyone knows that green sees blue through some means or ano...
July 27, 2025 at 20:18
That someone speaking is required in the counterfactual scenario isn't that someone speaking is required in the actual scenario. You're making a false...
July 27, 2025 at 19:15
I'm not wrong because I didn't say "only the 100 of us". We don't need someone to say something to apply it to our current situation. We all just need...
July 27, 2025 at 18:37
I see 99 blue. These 99 blue see either 98 or 99 blue. The 100 of us are all capable of thinking and knowing that: 1. If there is only 1 blue and if s...
July 27, 2025 at 18:12
Isn't this a truism? There is if there are reasons to believe that I am conscious and that I am a collection of material components.
July 27, 2025 at 17:00
I've told you, it's probably not as simple as there being some specific n. At this point, I'm just answering the question in the OP. All the blues and...
July 27, 2025 at 15:27
I have deduced it, just as the people in the OP deduced it after green says "I see blue". Our reasoning is: P1. If green says "I see blue" and if ther...
July 27, 2025 at 15:19
True, perhaps it’s not as simple as defining some particular n. Not that I think it matters to my argument. It is still the case that in the OP it is ...
July 27, 2025 at 15:02
Yes
July 27, 2025 at 14:29
The exact same thing as if green were to say "I see blue". Your insistence that I must wait for her to actually say it to start the reasoning, like ru...
July 27, 2025 at 13:59
The reasoning is: 1. If green says "I see blue" and there is only 1 blue then that blue would leave on the first day 2. If green says "I see blue" and...
July 27, 2025 at 13:57
Okay, so what I said here was correct: Tommy doesn't know that everyone knows that green sees blue because if Tommy doesn't have blue eyes then the 1 ...
July 27, 2025 at 13:48
Actually, ignore the above, I misread
July 27, 2025 at 13:28
No, because Tommy doesn't know that everyone knows that green sees blue. If Tommy doesn't have blue eyes then the 1 blue doesn't know that green sees ...
July 27, 2025 at 13:27
It allows the blues and browns to deduce their eyes colour if there are 2 blue, 2 brown, and 1 green.
July 27, 2025 at 13:21
The shared knowledge is that green sees blue and brown. That allows the blues and browns to deduce their eye colour. The blues will reason that if gre...
July 27, 2025 at 13:18
I explained it above. As per the very purpose of the puzzle, there is some shared knowledge that everyone knows (and that everyone knows everyone know...
July 27, 2025 at 13:12
Sometimes, but not always, as I keep saying. But the main point still stands; in the OP, the browns and blues can reason as I said and correctly deduc...
July 27, 2025 at 13:07
No, this doesn't follow. The relevant difference between your example here and the OP is that green saying "I see blue" could provide new information ...
July 27, 2025 at 13:04
I said it works if there are 2 brown and 2 blue. I didn't say it works if there is 1 blue, 2 brown, and 2 green. But again, I have repeatedly accepted...
July 27, 2025 at 12:47
No, because this is one of those n = 2 scenarios that I explicitly accept doesn't always work. In your scenario, green saying "I see blue" potentially...
July 27, 2025 at 12:41
Leaving aside the notion of an eternal past — which I believe to be incoherent — as I said in my first comment, if they were perfect logicians then th...
July 27, 2025 at 12:31
That's why I explicitly said where n >= 3. There are at least some occasions where it works where n = 2, but I haven't claimed that it will always wor...
July 27, 2025 at 12:19
From the OP: So it's explicit that everyone can see everyone else and knows that everyone can see everyone else, and implicit that new people don't ju...
July 27, 2025 at 12:16
I am using correct deductive reasoning. Given that I know that green sees blue and that green sees brown (and that every other blue and brown knows th...
July 27, 2025 at 12:14
As you keep saying, and yet if I were to reason in this way then I would correctly deduce the colour of my eyes. So as I said before, either it is sou...
July 27, 2025 at 12:07
I did here.
July 27, 2025 at 12:01
As I said before, if it helps we can just assume that some third party says “I see blue” and reason as if they did. We don’t need to wait for some thi...
July 27, 2025 at 11:46
If the 1 blue doesn’t leave on the first day then I am blue, else if the 2 brown don’t leave on the second day then I am brown, else I am neither blue...
July 27, 2025 at 11:42
Why are they imagining, contrary to the facts, that there is only 1 blue? Because in doing so we can deduce our eye colour. These counterfactual scena...
July 27, 2025 at 11:26
Just as we can imagine a counterfactual scenario in which there is only one brown we can imagine a counterfactual scenario in which green says “I see ...
July 27, 2025 at 11:11
They don’t assume that they don’t have a unique eye colour. Rather, they infer it based on what the others don’t do. Notice that each step is a condit...
July 27, 2025 at 09:38
They don't need to know that they don't have a unique eye colour. If they don't have a unique eye colour then the reasoning will work, as demonstrated...
July 27, 2025 at 09:22
Which is why I also said "unless they have a unique eye colour", and is the Guru in the original example. She cannot determine the colour of her own e...
July 27, 2025 at 09:12
That's why I said: for all n >= 3 if I see n ? 1 people with X-coloured eyes... So if there are at least 3 people with X-coloured eyes and at least 3 ...
July 27, 2025 at 09:05
He wouldn't, but that's irrelevant. It can be demonstrated that if everyone just follows the rule: for all n >= 3, if I see n - 1 people with X-colour...
July 27, 2025 at 08:30
Maybe also when n = 2. There are 2 brown, 2 blue, and 2 green. Each brown reasons that if the 1 brown doesn't leave on day 1 then he is brown, that if...
July 26, 2025 at 22:01
I don't even think we need to do that. It seems to be a simple mathematical fact that for all n >= 3, if I see n - 1 people with X-coloured eyes and i...
July 26, 2025 at 21:23
Yes they do. Given that I know that green sees blue, I can just assume that she says so even if she doesn't, and so if helpful I can stipulate that in...
July 26, 2025 at 17:37
No they won't. Let's take the example with 3 blue, 3 brown, and 1 green. Each blue's reasoning is: A1. Green sees blue A2. Therefore, if I don't see b...
July 26, 2025 at 17:31
So you say, and yet if blues were to follow this reasoning and browns were to follow comparable reasoning then they would all correctly deduce their e...
July 26, 2025 at 17:15
It does work given that it allows me to correctly deduce my eye colour. What more proof do you need other than the results? Or is it just a coincidenc...
July 26, 2025 at 17:07
If you want it as a step-by-step argument: P1. Green sees blue P2. Therefore, if I don't see blue then I must be blue P3. Therefore, if I see one blue...
July 26, 2025 at 17:00
It's the same reasoning. Just as we can stipulate some hypothetical in which I don't see anyone with blue eyes, even though "in reality" I do, we can ...
July 26, 2025 at 16:51
It’s explained in the post.
July 26, 2025 at 16:01
I already answered. I don’t know. But the reasoning nonetheless allows all blues and browns to correctly deduce their eye colour and leave on the 100t...
July 26, 2025 at 15:50
And as I have repeatedly explained, it doesn’t actually require the Guru to say anything. It’s a red herring. It might appear to be necessary, but cou...
July 26, 2025 at 15:43
As I said, I’m not sure. But it appears to be a fact that if the blue-eyed people reason in such a way then they correctly deduce that they have blue ...
July 26, 2025 at 15:35
I explained the reasoning that each person performs and the conclusion they draw from it; a conclusion that is correct. I don’t understand what else y...
July 26, 2025 at 15:31