Janus

Re noumena, this, with passages from Kant, comes from Wikipedia: Kant also makes a distinction between positive and negative noumena: If by 'noumenon'...

Yes, I agree, but I think that the development of orthodoxies is intrinsic to religion while not being intrinsic to those other disciplines, and is ac...

Science, mathematics, logic, phenomenology. Any discourse which depends on observation and reason, and does not depend on authority. Any discourse, th...

I agree; I think ethics is basically a sense, a matter of conscience, not a set of rules.

This is not out of line with the notion of the sovereignty of the individual, though; if this sovereignty is considered as belonging to all individual...

Right, though I haven't said the definition of freedom simpliciter is contextual; I meant that who is defined as being free, and how we might be defin...

Got it, thanks. I'll let you know my thoughts on that when I've finished both the essay and the article.

I haven't read the web site article, just glanced at it, and I'm working my way through Arendt's paper. I'm interested as to what part of the essay yo...

Thanks, but is that not the same link to Arendt's essay as was given in the OP?

Ah, right. I've started reading the Arendt article, since I have more time on my hands today. So far, I would say 'yes or maybe'. I think I may have a...

Actually I misread this. Since I said that the more control the more freedom, I had thought you thought I meant control per se, and I misread this as ...

Sorry it wasn't clear, but I meant personal control, not external control. I consider freedom from external control to be freedom, as experienced, of ...

For me the ancient Greek conception of noumena is so different from Kant's that I think it is irrelevant. I don't see a problem with Kant using the te...

The way I see it, more or less irrelevant etymologies aside, is that Kant uses the term "noumenal" to denote what we might think of as the 'non or ext...

I think it's fair to say that if we have any capability of control at all, then that is a quantum of freedom. If we never could have done otherwise th...

Was the claim that the idea of free will originated with the church fathers in the article or was it exclusively yours?

You're deflecting. The passage quoted from SEP was merely to show the facile and spurious claim that the idea of free will originated with the church ...

Not so. From the SEP entry on free will: The term “free will” has emerged over the past two millennia as the canonical designator for a significant ki...

This thread...same old menu...nothing's changed. :rofl:

This is nonsense. "Do unto others..." etc., and in Christian morality, one is to be held accountable for their acts; both by society and by God.

Neither way of describing the beliefs is more accurate other than from their different appropriate perspectives.

Right, I don't say that there has been no point exploring thinking about free will vs determinism; it's just that the topic has been so thoroughly exp...

It was your second post, you're right; but because it came before anyone had responded, it seemed to be part of the OP, albeit a kind of afterthought.

Yes, there are so many threads...for me the issue is undecidable, and thus of little interest. I only took it up because I thought the attempt to deny...

Banno introduced the issue of free will in the OP.

So, determining the nature of observed phenomena influences it, whereas describing it does not? I would have thought you have to determine the nature ...

A definition that describes it would be a definition that determines it(s nature), would it not?

:up:

Yes, as I said, it depends on how you define 'will'. So, since the idea has no clearly definitive, unambiguous application I agree it is fraught.

I guess it depends on how you define 'will', gmba. There is a sense in which it might be thought that being a slave to the passions is not freedom. If...

No, I have acknowledged there is a sense in which we can say that. But the content of his belief is not that a broken clock is working. That's all I'v...

What claim do you think I've been objecting to?

I am not saying it is problematic; you are. You were claiming that it had some problematic implication for the idea that beliefs can be expressed in p...

Not a wedge, but a distinction between different orders of the will. This doesn't deny that one could be acting under the influence of introjected "sh...

I was just responding to this, which I don't need to read the article to do: So I was disagreeing with the idea, and saying why I disagree, that it is...

I haven't said that freedom is "living as you wish" or "doing what you like". My point was just that everything someone does, that is not coerced or f...

If you are free to do your will, that counts as freedom in my book. The idea of being free to do other than your will is what might be thought as anal...

I call it "diversity".

Yes, of course you can be forced, or coerced, to act against your will.

No, because any such act would be an act of will, whether free or not.

:lol: Yeah me too, but up until about several years ago I still believed in the possible intellectual intuition of metaphysical truths. Or more accura...

Fair enough. For me most everything Wayfarer says is representative of views which I once held myself, so there is nothing much there for me to learn ...

I think Wayfarer is well read in comparative religious studies, but not so much in philosophy. He shows this in misunderstanding my perspectives as po...

Of course Buddhist orthodoxy is dependent on the narrative of Gotama's perfect enlightenment, just as orthodox Christianity is dependent on the narrat...

The historical narrative of Gotama's enlightenment is really no less apparently anachronistic, I would say.

From Jack's point of view he doesn't believe anything about a broken clock, obviously, since he thinks the clock is not broken. Of course we can say t...

Your idea of information is too broad for my taste... but to each their own, I guess.

Problem is you apparently have no idea how the purported duck walks. Can straw ducks even walk?

I can see that Revelation may inspire religious feeling, but I can't see how it provides instruction as to "how to achieve the peak state". Anyway I d...

Ah, the 'labelmeister' strikes again. Dismission by labeling; so much easier than providing a counter argument. Also note, that I haven't said that no...