T_Clark

An interesting discussion. Although there is a lot of overlap and similarity, Buddhism and Taoism take different approaches to many issues, including ...

Yes. I didn't read carefully enough.

I agree. That's one of the reasons I started this discussion. If you are saying that what I call personal morality vs social control and what you call...

Found lacking by you and some others. Some other others have been more sympathetic. Also, as I wrote in the OP: By contradictions I assume you mean co...

My interest is primarily ontological, i.e. by what metaphysical mechanisms does the world operate. I'll get back to you when I've read more of both bo...

This makes sense to me, with this addition - considerations of good and evil may be post hoc, but they are likely to effect my judgment when another s...

Do I think humans are "self-determining." I'll have to think about that and we'll have to define what we mean by it. As for this discussion, nothing I...

You asked: Emerson and I respond - "So be it." I think that answers your question. You may not find that satisfactory, but I think it's at least clear...

Yes, I saw this movie. No, wait. That was South Dakota. You have more interesting dreams than I do. In order to effectively stop the hit man, I have t...

Good point. I hadn't thought of abolition as part of the context of Emerson's philosophy.

Yes, that's what I meant by "greasing the skids." I have no problem with that, but I think many people here would disagree with you when you claim iss...

No, I have some obligation to respond to your arguments civilly. Which I have done. That's it. I'm not responsible for convincing you, although I have...

My ideas on motivations for my behavior have nothing to do with anyone else. As I've tried to make clear, and which you seem to have ignored, I have n...

When they say it's inauthentic, they just mean they don't think it was written by Chuang Tzu himself. Even so, it was roughly contemporaneous and I fi...

To be blunt, why should I worry about your problems with and suspicions about my ideas. I'm not asking you to endorse them or change your own understa...

I think it does, although you might not like the answer. You seem to be assuming I am not self-aware enough to recognize my own motivations. I'm certa...

After your recommendation, I downloaded this book, but I haven't read much of it yet. I started in on the essay you listed, but I got a bit lost. I'll...

I think you've misunderstood my point. I know you weren't judging me for the positions I was describing. When I wrote: I was talking about how you mig...

It's hard to say if I agree with that. The texts I've read are all aimed at mature adults. I'm not sure what you mean. I've been reading and rereading...

A good question.

When I first read that, I thought it said "cannibalism." As for Nazi's and Communists, I would ask what course makes for the most effective response t...

I think I would say it starts much later than that, perhaps in middle age, long after they have "worked out an ethical system for themselves" and have...

Sorry, I overlooked this response previously. I don't see how it is an excuse when I don't recognize the legitimacy of your moral judgment against me....

Opaque to you, perhaps, but not to me. Speaking for myself and not for Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, or anyone else, I think my intrinsic nature has a lot in c...

I'd like to think that behaving in accordance with the golden rule will arise automatically when we all live in accordance with our inner natures. I'm...

But what does acting require judgment of? Not necessarily right and wrong, good and bad, or moral and immoral. We just need to figure out how to addre...

In general I think your description of the socialization process is a good one. For me that raises the question of when the principles of self-governa...

Several others on this thread have made similar comments. I've responded with this quote from "Self-Reliance."

I don't think I've been unclear about what I mean by "morality." This is not correct. Taoism developed in response to and contradiction of Confucius's...

Olive oil on scrambled eggs??? That's not the classic Murican breakfast George Washington and Ronald Reagan ate.

I've been saying that both law and any other form of persuasion or coercion are the same in that they are instruments of social control and have littl...

You raise an issue that's important to me, but which I haven't discussed in this thread. Beyond everything that's been written here, I don't think a s...

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/download/2705/YGID%20small.png

I think you and I are on similar paths. This thread is an effort to wade through the jargon. Is my position meta ethical? Is this discussion "outside ...

I don't disagree with this, although I have made what I think is a fundamental distinction between a society of many and a "society" of one. As the ba...

I agree, Lao Tzu is no help in preparing a rational response to a moral disagreement. Taoist principles are more guides to personal behavior. As I've ...

I left my response to this out. Generally, no. I don't usually find moral discussions useful or satisfying. Again, that's what lead me to starting thi...

I guess my dissatisfaction with this is the motive behind this attempt to undermine the idea of morality at all. I think this is the standard response...

I think you and I are getting wrapped up in a difference in our understanding of what "will" means. Or maybe not. What you call "compulsion by context...

As I see it, there is no fundamental difference between a legal system and a moral one.

Good point. Even if my actions according to Chuang Tzu's descriptions might be considered benign, they are not really moral, i.e. they don't deal with...

I'm glad you brought up the golden rule. I've spent some time thinking about how it fits into my formulation. I'm not sure of the answer.

Another quote from "Self-Reliance," one of my favorites.

I think you've said it very well.

I think the approach I have been describing is not rational at all. It's not irrational, it's non-rational. In a sense, that's the point. The point I'...

I agree, although I don't want to get into an argument about exactly where our intrinsic virtuosity comes from. Well, maybe I do, but I didn't include...

I don't necessarily disagree but... This is what Chuang Tzu has to say. This from Ziporyn's translation of Chapter 8. I'll let Lao Tzu respond. This i...

I agree with this. Yes, good point. I was thinking about that after I posted the OP. The idea of acting in accordance with our intrinsic virtuosity ca...

I like the way you've put this. Have you read Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu?

Agreed. This is from the Tao Te Ching, along with the Chuang Tzu the other foundational document of Taoism - Gia-Fu Feng's translation of Verse 2. The...