Banno

Forget about meaning and look to use. Understanding a concept is being able to use it.

Well, I've nothing to say about the ineffable. Nor about other folk's invisible friends. And I want to talk about belief, not motive.

You again appear to be working with a picture of language that has been thoroughly debunked.

That doesn't work. One might be inspired by art to believe this or that; the this or that is expressible, especially if you want it to lead to revolut...

Nor am I :fear: But I am not claiming that nothing is going on in people's brains. Some people, anyway.

Give us an example... :wink: An unstatable belief could not be used to effectively explain an action. "Why did you do it?" is not answered by hand-wav...

What's that, then? A belief that cannot be placed in the canonical form B(a,p)? Or just an unstated belief?

This is wrong. The meaning of a word - so far as there can be such a thing - cannot be its "subjective referent" - whatever that might be - because yo...

Dependent... I'm increasingly inclined to think of mind as the interaction between brain and world. It depends on what goes on in the head, but occurs...

I don't understand. Are you agreeing with me?

This seemed to go unaddressed, so I will continue my line of thought. If we follow Wittgenstein's injunction to look to the use rather than the meanin...

Rubbish. This whole thread is about mind.

OK. We have agreement.

Any belief, including the beliefs of creatures that do not have the capacity for language, can be placed in the form of a relation between an individu...

But I did not say that. And I failed to follow your comments about the moon.

There's a hint that tree, trust and true involve being sturdy, upright, solid.

Beliefs explain but do not determine actions Beliefs are used to explain actions. Further, such explanations are causal and sufficient. So if we have ...

From the OP: It has been suggested that animal and other non-linguistic beliefs are a falsification of this suggestion. The argument is that non-lingu...

Interesting that "trust" and "true" have the same root. As does "tree".

"No, Banno - there is in addition an irreducible, invisible thing-in-the-mind had by those who understand 'heavy' - the concept of heavy." And when yo...

Heavy. How do you tell that someone has understood that concept? "Ah, sure, he uses a proper lift on heavy objects, keeping his back straight; and he ...

IF so, what?

I tried to be clear at the outgo that the purpose of this thread is to investigate belief; I agree with you that we will not come up wiht a clear cut ...

IS there anything more to a concept - any concept - than is found in our use of it in language? If so, what? If not, then our talk is all there is to ...

I'm not going to agree to this. Firstly, it does not follow from the fact that we use a given word, that there is a something to which the word refers...

Yes; the link between justification and belief is unwieldy. The philosophical brush and pan will not help us much here. And the issue applies as much ...

Yes - that's right. I agree, so long as we note that giving a linguistic expression to a belief is also an act that shows the belief. Again, yes. The ...

There are all sorts of cases one might use here, Hanover, of where actions do not reflect belief. It's a good point. And not a new one. Hence, I am as...

I'm more into armagnac.

My bolding. Hmm. That's not at all a loaded question. 1 & 2. Now what?

the explanations are post hock and sufficient.

Interesting that Moore's paradox is in the first person. "John believes the world is flat, but the world is not flat" is not paradoxical - John is jus...

"Jack believes his bowl is empty" is a relation between a proposition and a cat who has only a limited vocab. That Jack cannot say "I believe my bowl ...

I understand that offering an ostensive definition is not part of the game - it's more like putting the pieces on the board. And yet, putting the piec...

I'm being a curmudgeon here - why is waiving ones hand around and saying "here is a hand" one of those language games?

It seems to me that @"Sam26" and @"Janus" have in common the notion that a belief is justified in terms of other beliefs. For my purposes in this thre...

This comes about because there are untrue beliefs. I see.

But @"Janus" rejects JTB; to know is to accept a proposition as a part of a web of other propositions one knows - a coherence definition of knowledge....

OK, so in order to know some proposition, it must be true, believed and justified. TO be justified is to be implied by or consistent with the other pr...

So if I understand Janus, the correct grammar would be that if one knows, one is certain; when one doubts, one no longer knows nor is justified in bel...

Even in the Theaetetus, JTB is rejected. But one can't know something without also believing it; nor can one know something that is not true. Long ago...

Does he, @"Sam26"? Or is Janus certain, but since lacking in justification, not knowledgeable? So much of this is about the limits and gradients betwe...

And is it better to say Janus expects to see his paycheque? :grin:

If so, then we have a web of beliefs. A justification must, after all, be held to be true.

So an animal could have beliefs, but not beliefs about beliefs. This lines up with Wittgenstein's remark that a dog can believe his master is coming h...

Make it a conjunction of disjunctions. Someone who believes in god is disposed to (go to church on Sunday and say their prayers at night) or (go to a ...

Indeed! Further evidence, perhaps, that using belief to explain an act has a post-hoc character. John ate a sandwich. That he was hungry and believed ...

Cheers. Yes - I agree. Certainty, however, entails belief. Knowledge - well, in the end, that's one of the results of belief; and if one accepts JBT, ...

https://scontent.fsyd4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27460059_1431980246931181_3943467070002413181_n.jpg?oh=462bfab3fbbf34c527f451cbc61e0b88&oe=5B4691F3

I like that. Damn, I should have come up with that myself. Seeing the pens, papers and so on justifies the belief. In much the same way as "Here is a ...