bongo fury

While confusion of use and mention is endemic, can we please focus on ordinary declarative statements?

Well... it can be hard to tell: Which show signs of systematic ambiguity (bordering on sophistry) between state of affairs as (A) unquoted statement a...

Yep, we know how to play the game of agreeing to pretend that certain words and pictures point at certain things. Pretend seems to me a suitable word ...

@"Banno" @"creativesoul" @"fdrake" @"frank" I know quoting from my holy book (apocrypha) isn't an argument, but...

I'm tempted, but remain skeptical. Seems like another (along with "belief") anthropomorphic over-extension of the real thing, which in this case is hu...

(... and you think reference is real.)

I see. Not symbols at all. Signs.

What do?

So the interpretations cancel out? Or the things on either side of the IFF?

What do?

Ok, so drawing of correlations between things is formation of dispositions to respond to them which are relative to each other? Maybe?

If not how, then in what ways? How am I to think of a cat as drawing correlations? By (perhaps?) appreciating how it is

Cool. Agreed.

But an example of how the languageless creature draws a correlation between two or more of these?

Attribution of beliefs to phones is a misattribution.

Good. See edit.

Example?

Ok, and then what counts as "drawing correlations" that isn't some kind of a game of symbol-pointing? Just interested.

Still cool, perhaps. How, though?

It's worse than I thought, if "x" isn't even abbreviating "x" is true.

Cool. And, might do so by other means or in other ways than are implied by such practices?

Yes. Exactly. I thought you were talking about that. Not only about poetry.

Not the second one: not the (debatably) "languageless" one. To say that the cat, seems to me a fairly credible rough and ready behavioural analysis: a...

Qua plain old alternative statements? Cool. Was disposed to assent (upon being gifted language) to a pointing of "mouse running behind tree" at the in...

Yes, the "hard problem" presupposes epiphenomenalism, which took hold when brain science got in the habit of referring to the "neural correlates of co...

Event as in space-time region, or event as in abstract proposition about (or property of) such a region? Or something else? Or both? Where were we? .....

And putting the ability into practice, presumably? Ok, and you say that such creatures might have no language? Do you mean none at all, and if so, rou...

Not the first, though: One way or the way other, please clarify.

So, is the second sentence a typo, or deliberate sophistry? Which the otherwise unaccountable banality of the first sentence is designed to camouflage...

That's plausible, but it doesn't mean we need to recognise any mysteriously non-actual facts ("possible states of affairs" if they can't be just plain...

Ah, I get you. Although "existing in their entirety" isn't a phrase I associate with Banno... :lol:

:ok:

Existing without existing?

Cool. What are facts, though...

Seems fair enough. What are facts, though? Presumably, not single objects. Larger space-time regions, of various (e.g. mouse-running-behind-tree) kind...

Again? You presume to lecture people on failure of reference. You cite Strawson, who uses "subject" explicitly and unambiguously in just one of its tw...

:smile: Smart phones, though?

An artificial neural network can have the nameless anticipation (surge in action potentials). Oughtn't we reserve "belief" for the anticipations of a ...

Cool. The opposite sense of subject to Strawson's sense, but fine if you are careful not to mix in that other usage without notice, or without noticin...

Sure, but notoriously ambiguous between conflicting senses as a technical term, if not clarified in favour of one or the other. Sure, and I offered in...

So, just to be clear, do you at last see why would have to be a typo? Why the stubborn attachment to "subject" at all? Why not referent or object for ...

Typo. (wish to attack?) Or unclear.

Boxing Day, 10.25: Just noticeably sharp. 13.10: Semitone sharp. 16.25: Good. 17.40: Good. 20.20: Good. Maybe sharp. 23.25: Bit sharp. Day 36, 11.10: ...

So, not At all. Not, one instead of the other. Rather, Something like, A typo, then, but a different correction now?

:up: Ordering that book today. Despite...

There is the space-time region independent of our talking about it now (or whenever), sure. Language isn't needed to correlate the event (region) with...

Indeed. Deep and crisp and even. Not composed of four letters. So, just to be clear, this phrase, was a typo?

Gosh. "Subject" in the sense of grammatical subject, a word or phrase (e.g. "snow" or "king of France") capable of referring to an object or subject-m...

Oh, an experiential facet. I see.

Banno can grant beliefs to cats because he assumes beliefs are mythical folk psychology anyway. He needs them to be propositional so that they can be ...