Noble Dust

Put up your gloves, then!

:P I get it! I hold grudges too. I wish I didn't, though. I'm working on it. (I'm a Scorpio, remember...) But your sarcasm, grudges or not, is somethi...

(Y) (Y) (Y) :’( sorry about that... Positivity on a philosophy forum...what a dastardly concept...

Because I think autonomously, but act within a social context of belonging.

That's the nicest thing anyone has said to me all week! :) :’(

It's true, I'm pretty daft; having the likes of you and TL around to remind me of what a failure I am is extremely helpful; otherwise, I might begin t...

:’( :’( :’( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2lTH-8GYxc

Pluralism but not relativism seems to make the most sense to me as well. The "subject/object" divide is always tricky, and also erroneous, I think. Ob...

Yes, I think you described the idea well; better than I did. And yes, as you say, it's hard to extricate ourselves from the cycle of toxic shame; I wa...

No they're not. This is what you're missing; of course someone wants to hide the shameful feeling of having committed a sexual crime. Try shaming that...

So 16 times warrants that you call ND a piece of shit? Is 16 the criteria, or is it something else?

You continue to misunderstand; I want those acts out in the open too. What I'm arguing is that shame keeps those acts secret.

No, the line isn't fine at all; the line is "hey ND, you were wrong to call X a jerk", vs. "Hey ND, you're a piece of shit for calling X a jerk".

Actually, you're right, those were my critiques.

Remorse and shame. The issue is that shame is something that should be felt by the individual, not something projected unto someone else, as suggests....

That's not "the shame I brought up".

Funny, since I brought the topic up in this thread. I agree; we should talk about shame; that's what breaks the vice of the secrecy of shame.

I disagree; immoral actions aren't shameful; they're immoral. An immoral action isn't moral; it breaks the given moral code; it's immoral. Shame, howe...

call what a fact??

Ok, at this point I'm so confused that maybe you could just re-state the general argument you're making about shame, in as little words as possible? A...

Actually, confusion is best as a state accepted, but then warred against...leading to more confusion...but the war, it seems, is the key...???

Since you edited your post from "ok, bye." to this, I'll give it a shot. What was the reason? The idea of not being able to change people? What does "...

Confusion is often a preferred state of consciousness...

Reading through the typos here, I think I get the gist; and no, when I'm able to read through the typos, I'm able to make sense of what you're saying,...

:-}

I don't mean this as an insult, but literally every post of yours in this discussion has had typos that were confusing, and I've found that to be the ...

I recall a discussion we had in which you were attempting to "change" someone you cared about, and were remonstrating about the difficulty of it; I wa...

Back away...slowly...

Why not?

So you see my cause as a lost cause? Is that why you resort to insults and shame? That sounds defeatist.

Yes? No? Continuing to point out that you're assuming to know my motives when you don't? Yes, I'm continuing. I never addressed this; I always and onl...

So does this mean that insults are your only means to argument, then? Have you actually considered my arguments about shame?

The reason I never have any idea what you're talking about is that your sentence structure, grammar, etc., never make sense. What does the word "barco...

I have no idea what you're talking about.

My point is that your insults are the very stuff of shaming, and that they contribute to the problem.

It doesn't matter how they feel; your gross insults are the stuff of shaming.

True, when I said his response was more nuanced, I meant his entire post. I only quoted some of it for clarity. My understanding of what BC meant by p...

What? Ok, here we have some common ground; great. The problem is that you insist that it's morally right for me to shame you when I see you acting imm...

You, like good old Sappy, are also insufferable. You're contributing to toxic shame when you insult the people you disagree with; no where, unless I'm...

What is?

You're a moderator?

Say it plainly; I don't know what you mean.

Do you mean "The point is understanding that an action is immoral is shame"? If so, no the understanding does not equate to shame. That makes no sense...

Did you mean "whereas" rather than "whereby"? Even if so, that distinction doesn't make sense because they're essentially the same thing; "victims kno...

I don't think that, no.

But I enumerated why I was confused why you thought that in my following description of our interaction. You really are insufferable sometimes. Quite ...

I don't get the sarcasm here. Maybe I'm a little slow. Yes - that's a key component to my argument about shame; so I'm confused, because you seem to d...

I don't know, because I never said "positive methods".

No. Knowledge of morality is not predicated on shame. No, shame does not work that way. Shame leads to secrecy; secrecy builds deeper shame, which bui...

I thought I was going crazy here; glad to hear from someone else who agrees. Yes. , , , see BT's response for a much more nuanced explanation of what ...