Isaac

So, when you've time, I'd appreciate if you could expand on this. What do you find immoral about it? Is doing that which is pragmatic not rational?

Yes, I had read that. It's a good line of thought. Essentially we've removed any categorisation of the various human interactions. Even if I break you...

Describing means to put into other words to make more clear. At the moment we've been give 'subjective experience which is no more clear. That's not t...

Ah. I see where our crossed wires have been now, to a certain extent. Saying that an event determines some particular action (in combination with othe...

I see @"Coben" is already banging his head against this particular brick wall of yours, but if you read properly (as you're so keen in emphasising to ...

Why? It's causing no physical damage. Some people really like loud repetitive noises late at night, so what is it that makes playing the drums for six...

Yes, as with hate speech laws. The mere fact of some individual finding something offensive is not sufficient. The point is that you are advocating th...

But that's just not true as far as I can tell. I'd really need to see some evidence if you want me to believe that. I've read the EPA model ordinance ...

I remember now where we got to last time I engaged with you. Not worth it I'm afraid.

What? Not even following that one I'm afraid. I'd love to disagree but I haven't the faintest idea what point you're making.

So, back to the actual discussion... You said In the exchange that followed I pointed out that that sensory ordinances like the ones we have now inclu...

But there is for me. That's the point. It's about making sure I've got a view I'm happy with. I'm not happy with inconsistencies. I'm not happy with e...

Exactly.

No. That is an extremely complicated and vague definition. What are 'subjective experiences'? You've replaced one vague term with another. As I've sai...

That's because I'm not interested in your views per se, why on earth would I be interested in the views of a random Internet poster, it doesn't make a...

When someone misinterprets what you have said, what are you gaining by repeatedly posting "wrong!" in various forms, as if we're sitting a 'what Terra...

No, I know you didn't. You very much implied that noises which people found disturbing would also be covered, as they are in reality by the actual ord...

The 1972 noise act allows for ordinances to be created municipally, it advises they are based on the 'modal' ordinance which is published by the EPA, ...

Yes, but not of the sort you're describing in your dystopia, that's what I was asking for clarification about. The modal ordinance from the EPA, for e...

So if I don't like the sound of an electric guitar, I'd have recourse, but if I don't like the sound of "gays should be killed" I'd have nothing. Any ...

Yes, absolutely. But the ability of a government to misuse legislative power is not alone a justification for not giving it to them. A government coul...

That would be a really interesting start. Do you have the case details to hand that you could give examples?

But none of that provides an argument, in the normal sense of the term. All he's said is "...they cannot describe the subjective experiences of such o...

I'm no expert on the rest of the world, but, as I've quoted before in this discussion, the ECtHR definition is "forms of expression which spread, inci...

That's not a claim, that's just word-salad. What does any of that mean? "The nature of consciousness is ineluctably subjective" - for subjective, my d...

Yes, that's it. The reason I brought it up has got somewhat lost because I don't think I've explained it clearly enough for the people I was talking t...

Is it? Explain to me then the mechanism, the neurological difference between being influenced by something and being determined (in part) by that thin...

Language, is pretty much the answer to your whole post. We talk to each other. That's how we obtain enough certainty about the consistency of our conc...

Yes. Banning blasphemy turns out not to be conducive to a healthy society. Banning homosexuality turned out not to be necessary either, so should we n...

I understand your position but there's a quite understandable reluctance on forums like this this to engage on constructive theorising because virtual...

That's what the beard's for. Sorry, we're supposed to be giving the insults a rest aren't we. And Zizek hasn't even posted yet. This sort of stuff is ...

So is the 'whether Terrapin (or anyone else) is a moron' discussion on another thread then? I think Zizek has written a paper on that recently.

So how do you propose we measure 'power' in order to use it to determine which speech acts should be banned? Obviously, given your example, if a leade...

We could have done other than we did is a different proposition to that we are able to do other than we did (which is the actual quote). The former mi...

But you just said that consciousness can be identified in philosophy by presuming the experiences of others are the same as ours, that's how we can ta...

Fair enough, a poor choice of expression. I shall remedy in future. Have you read Wittgenstein's private language argument? I don't want to repeat the...

Thanks - finally we can nail the whole consciousness thing once and for all!

For a start, I didn't say a theory that explains it, I said a theory concerning what it is. They key is identifying it, not explaining it (by which I ...

Just found this myself, wondering why I couldn't post to that thread. It had morphed into a discussion about consciousness (I know - it's a wonder no-...

That's the whole point of what Streetlight is saying though (if I understand it correctly). That there is a logical problem with the proposition "We a...

Really? That's your experience of the philosophical debate around consciousness? Form people like Dennet and Hood considering it to be little more tha...

Right. So if all that can be taken as a presumption for further philosophical investigation without even mentioning the caveat, why is it then conside...

Yes I understand that, but in our discussion we when I referred to your having feelings, you dismissed that as being incorrect as a means of identifyi...

But what I take to be an 'experience' is the logging of some sensory input into memory, but you've dismissed that as not constituting 'experience'? I ...

What thread have you been reading? Presumably not the one where we've been called Aspies (in a derogatory sense), ridiculous, morons, stupid, dishones...

Thanks. That's jumped the queue on the reading list. I like stuff that's short, can't stand philosophers who take half a page to say something three w...

Yes, for a concept that is being painted as entirely internal and one which we have no idea that other people share, there isn't half a lot of 'sharin...

Are you that convinced that what you personally mean by 'experience' is the same thing everyone else means by it? This sort of nonsense only ever seem...

No. I'm saying there is no such thing as an 'aware' being prior to us defining the characteristics which identify 'aware being' and saying "well, that...

I don't see how (insofar as 'real' means something like 'outside of subjective artifice). Exactly. So how does the concept of a thing called 'consciou...