khaled

Which is to say that provided I don’t pass you the red apple those things matter. Why did I not provide the red apple? Is the disagreement at the leve...

I surprisingly don’t disagree with anything you’re saying. So I don’t see what your problem with qualia is. Qualia is just the X and Y in the previous...

Isomorphic is just “homomorphic both ways”. Anyways I don’t plan to use technical terms anymore since they seem to just confuse. I thought I did last ...

Well we wouldn’t know about that. Which is what makes the problem hard. We can’t detect the property we’re testing for. At least not yet.

You argued this is the case because otherwise we’d have communication issues. I showed why that doesn’t have to be the case. But I want to ask if red ...

Kindly ignore every mention of "homomorphism" and replace it with "isomorphism". I often confuse the two, but I actually mean the latter. JIC you look...

So if someone doesn’t understand the public concept they do not have an experience? What about children then, do they have experiences? And could you ...

my entire comment could have been summed up as “We will have no issues of communication if our table of “experiences to words” was an isomorphism” tha...

could you link it so I don’t have to rummage through 44 pages?

That I own a car and you own a car does not eliminate the possibility that we own identical cars. But if you want to say that one car being “yours” an...

anyways

Anyways the main contention seems to really be this: Care to argue for why there is not such a thing?

Not necessarily. If there wasn’t such a notion then both “red apple” and “what we call red apple” is identical I knew you were gonna nitpick but I jus...

Not necessarily but it could be different. To say that they are different would mean you compared them and found that they are. It’s something in set ...

More accurately “what we all call a red apple”. Public meaning and all that. Correct. That is no evidence to indicate they have the same experience wh...

Correct. That is exactly what I said. Does the apple produce some sort of experience (sight, taste, etc). Yes. So when you describe an apple as red yo...

How so? I definitely see something when looking at a red apple. And I do not know if you see the same thing. Maybe what you’re seeing I would describe...

And then conceded that the intent behind the expression is as I described. I’m not proposing a neurological theory here, I’m saying what the intent be...

But qualia is there.

I don’t know what those are so I don’t get what you’re saying. Smells and tastes are words that point to certain qualia. “Red” points to a certain exp...

The problem comes when you say "and thus qualia do not exist". If you had said "And thus it is useless to talk about qualia" then I think this thread ...

Which is why I said "sci-fi". You were fine with startrek having changelings. But I don't care to continue this because you said that there are langua...

Here’s how I see it: There is a public meaning for each, but that is not the experience itself. When people say “The apple is red” they do not really ...

Maybe if you’re making a sci-fi movie about switching bodies and the struggles that come with getting used to a new homomorphism of experiences. Seems...

Which is exactly what I think won’t happen but I’ll suspend disbelief for now. Interesting but I wouldn’t go so far. I’d put it in the same box as sig...

I am implying that there is something that is not replaced no matter how much of your body gets replaced by functionally equivalent parts Not a very g...

I still don't know what that means exactly. What is "it" and what is confusing about it? Is this something about the meaning of life? Anyways I'll jus...

And what would be the purpose of that? You claimed that neurological progress would lead to a general theory of consciousness. I asked what you mean b...

What does "ultimate reality" mean?

You lost me there, Except the category "ultimate reality" apparently no?

First, I'd like to point out that this quote boils down to "I can't define it further so please stop pretending you don't get it" which I've been sayi...

Really? So if you lost a finger you're not you anymore? Which part of the body exactly carries this "I"? How much of a body can you lose or replace to...

You cannot use the word in its definition. You cannot use the word in its definition. So far you've given me four definitions of consciousness: 1- Con...

Of course it is. As is every definition ever (at least of these basic concepts)... Whatever "I" is referring to here. Oh so you understand what it mea...

Define, simplify, potato, potato. I cannot define it without referring to equally vague concepts becaue it doesn't get simpler than that. Outline is j...

Because there is an experiencer (me) who is aware (conscious) of these experiences. And that is the definition of "having an experience" Your question...

I know that I am experiencing something. I later call this ability to experience something "consciousness". No because I cannot be wrong about the fac...

Very important distinction here: are they brain states or are they caused by brain states. Because for me it is the latter (note: I am not saying they...

I was not doing some reductio ad absurdum here. I was implying that this point of contention is useless. No one cares whether or not water is wet and ...

Saying "aware that you are conscious" is like saying "wet water" Can't remember a point where I possessed no knowledge so I can't tell you if you need...

I am but I didn't mention that in my discussion with you because it is unrelated to my argument. Whether or not I am a panpsychist should not change w...

I wonder how Dennett or for that matter half the people on this thread would explain what just happened here.

This. This is basically exactly as I defined it but although you were apparently confused by my definition you still reused it. Which shows that maybe...

To know whether they are or not I would have to somehow morph into an electron and back to compare. All I'm asserting is that there is no reason to as...

But assuming complete knowledge of the componenets the structure is just simplification and adds no predictive powers. So if "consciousness" is a stru...

Yes but maybe it can’t be ascertainable for most cases. That is different from it not existing. Incorrect. Ascribing it says something. However we may...

The structure adds no extra predictive power and is therefore merely a simplification. That’s what I’m saying.

Maybe because it explains enough? I can be unaware of my surroundings and still be conscious. And idk what informed has to do with it. I don't know. W...

You have yet to show an example of this. My point is that the higher level concepts must be reducible to the interaction of components do you disagree...

Then we're probably not talking about the same thing. Consciousness is more fundamental than "red" and "square". Without consciousness "red" and "600 ...