khaled

That would be the ONLY clue in your setup. So if everyone starts to call both the sky and blood “red” tomorrow, that makes the sky red? Also link isn’...

How else would we tell the colorblind person is being wrong? Wrong or unnecessary?

Because they share something. There is no metaphysical reason or anything, sure. It just so happens that all experiences of red share something. Beyon...

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Maybe this might do.

Or you can check my discussion with Isaac (and with you) where I explain how you can have a public language about private experiences.

Sure but I was simplifying by only talking about color. Not necessarily. Differences in the V4 region, that we have studied, are structural physical d...

Isn’t this just reinforcing the distinction you say we shouldn’t “invent”? A distinction between how things are and our experiences of them?

Fair enough. Maybe it is more complex. But definitely more intuitive and less confusing. Because we can picture having different Xs and Ys. I can imag...

If he couldn’t see red he can’t have been seeing red all his life. So idk what you mean here. I would say “Richard discovered that he couldn’t disting...

I'll put it another way. Physical difference result in mental differences correct? So let's split up physical differences into two types, structural, ...

False. We have no evidence of that. As I've shown, you can have radically different epiphenomena and still be able to do all of: So that in itself is ...

I would say that that we have experiences is a bit more than an assumption no? It precedes the neurology even. Epiphenomenon X does pre-exist. The exp...

Misspoke. How about "comes with". Idk why you're raising this objection now though because that's always what I've said. But we don't know if brainsta...

You can't explain to someone what an experience is like so I'm not sure what you're asking. As you said: The subjectivity leaves the picture. We can't...

I think you have to use the reply feature for me to get notifications because I missed this. Let's look at the original example I gave. XXY and YYX. W...

This reads like a Sex Ed class. Everyone is talking about it but no one wants to spell it out. The forbidden word. Qualia. :rofl:

No one can solve nihilism because it is an internally consistent system. If you want to believe it, you will. And no one will be able to convince you ...

Nah. If there was an app on your phone that repeatedly printed “Please don’t close me or I’ll be in terrible pain” would you be under obligation not t...

I can infer it yes. Let’s call experience you are subjectively having when looking at a red apple X. And let’s call the experience I am subjectively h...

The structure of the thoughts senses and feelings can be the same. Public language can’t talk about private/subjective events, only their structure. A...

XXY and YYX but sure. XXY and XYY are different structurally (person 1 thinks the first 2 objects are the same but person 2 thinks the last 2 objects ...

Sure. I concede. Then again, you never have identical brain states. Or identical brains. So privacy can have a home there.

Sure.

No I don't agree there. What makes you think that? I would agree that identical brain activity will produce experiences that occupy the same structure...

We have taken no measures to examine X and Y directly. Every measure we have taken would produce the same result were they different. Because every me...

I am not definitively saying they are different. I am pointing out that we have just as much reason to believe they are the same as to believe they ar...

Correct. Too bad words don't refer to components of experience. The word for "decision" is not referring to an experience. But its position within a s...

No. It was X,X, Y and Y,Y, X. Point is it's the same structure. As in, the first two objects are the same color and the last one is different. I am no...

No. As my example showed, you can have radically different experiences and still talk. A public language about private experiences. If, when looking a...

Correct. That's precisely the Xs and Ys. I just use them as placeholders. Because the point is, we do not all need to be having X to refer to it as a ...

And we all have a word "Red" because we all have some experience of X/Y/Z/J/G/H/Doesn't matter as long as the structure is preserved. Even though no a...

No. Different physical effects produce Xs and Ys. We just came back from an epiphenomenalism thread so you know what I mean here hopefully. It still i...

We had a whole fight about this on the last qualia thread. You insisted that "red" does not refer to experiences. If you were going to disagree with a...

I can buy that. And the experience is not mental stuff?

Here: You called it a myth. Me too honestly. I think we mostly agree, just keep misunderstanding each other. Well I read it something like: "Experienc...

I thought you were saying that without the word, the emotion would somehow no longer be experienced. If not then I don't get what "Subjectivity is int...

care to elaborate what issue you see with it?

can’t tell if that’s agreement or dismissal. Which is it?

Sure but I’m saying that even if you had no one to play with the board doesn’t disappear. If that makes sense. Even if the word “fear” was never creat...

I wouldn’t say “subjective meanings” so much as “subjective experiences”. But I think it’s possible to have a public language, about subjective experi...

I should elaborate. When I say “subjectivity is not intersubjective” I don’t mean that in a linguistic sense. Obviously the world “subjective” has a s...

We're going around in circles. I think you can infer the answer to both of those questions from what I said previously. Cheers.

"Moving to long term memory" is nothing more and nothing less than a figure of speech describing a neurological process. Agreed. The laws of physics a...

Not the kind of rest you get from sleeping. A quick google search came up with this: Human growth hormone (HGH), on the other hand, is one of the prim...

I don’t think “anger” works as a label of a predictive model in everyday use. Sure, certain neurons firing cause anger, but we don’t use the word “ang...

So, the word “anger” had a different meaning before neurology? What do you mean?

I meant you can’t remove JUST the mind. You can’t create a philosophical zombie. Plenty of physical changes happen when you sleep. You can’t remove th...

Wouldn’t that require us to know what neurons are before making words that describe their hidden states? But clearly words such as “anger” are older t...

Then either I am misspeaking or you’re misinterpreting because what I have in mind has been constant. And no it did not cause me to type this! Anyways...