Metaphysician Undercover

I think it is important to recognize the distinction between number and measure. It's hard to say exactly what number is, but measure is an applicatio...

But isn't the point of realpolitik to allow one to make political decisions without being hindered by any such system of ethics? So if he was adhering...

So what about the politician who doesn't believe in God? Suppose the politician practises realpolitik, focusing on clear principles like gain/loss, ad...

Send them back where? The homeland has been demolished.

Do you believe in God Agustino? Do you think that if a politician does wrong (evil), and gets away with it here on earth, because he/she is the boss, ...

I see, so instead of considering whether an action would be wrong or right, one would consider the prospect of getting punished or rewarded from the a...

Right, if you don't have to worry about whether political actions are wrong or right, it's much easier to study politics.

So we have political/moral, and we leave behind the moral, just to deal with the political, and that's not a separation?

Of course they have ethics, but the point in realpolitik, as you described, is to separate politics from ethics. Why would one separate politics from ...

So you don't believe in realpolitik, which separates them then?

Just answer the flompywhompy question!

Uncharitable reading? You said "moral/political matters" as if moral and political matters are inseparable. Which do you believe, are they separable, ...

I thought you like to separate political matters from moral matters, by claiming realpolitik. Why do you now put them back together, inconsistency, wh...

All you have explained is that our attempts to understand (interpret) QM (which is inherently probabilistic) proceed through deterministic models. Tha...

This is a good analogy. We can ask, why are there passengers and drivers. The passengers are very often complaining, you're driving too fast, you're d...

For some reason,Tom does not seem to believe that quantum mechanics is probabilistic.

I have a view toward "facts" which is very similar to Rich's, but I will go to see doctors when I think it's appropriate. This does not mean that I th...

I don't know much about such seeds and algorithms, but you haven't convinced me that it is possible to know what the number will be prior to the compu...

I really do not think that the knowledge required to make such predictions even exists, so it's rather nonsense to talk about applying that non-existe...

Sorry I didn't answer your question. Realpolotik has been described as a view toward action which does not consider moral principles before acting. Th...

All I know about realpolitik is what Agustino described to me in this thread, with a little bit of background hearsay, which Agustino corrected me on....

Yes necessarily. "Rash" is usually assigned to the character of a person. and it doesn't matter who has that character, if you have it, you are rash. ...

Realpolitik, as you describe it, has the same description as "rash". And rash is a vice. Therefore realpolitik is not good. We can say that it's not g...

I think the game analogy fails. Games are usually played for entertainment, language goes far beyond entertainment. Most the times we compete in games...

The goal may or may not be good, it's rash to proceed without determining whether it is.

Unlike you, I think that barging ahead to fulfill a goal, without first determining whether the goal is good or bad, is itself bad. We refer to this v...

I didn't say "good" either. I said that it's sought for the sake of itself, therefore it's an ultimate end. As an ultimate end, I think I demonstrated...

I'm really not interested in reading about Hitler, It's been the theme of our entire discussion, your claim that the goal to increase one's power is g...

I get the impression that that's about as much as Agustino knows about goals, that they are a type of fish. I kind of had to start from the basics bec...

I have. It isn't the strong love for money or power that I classed as mental illness, it is the desire for money or power for the sake of itself, that...

I would certainly say that it is very possible to put forward a proposal which is not necessarily a goal. If I implied otherwise, then I made a mistak...

Did I claim that? Regardless, Trump was elected democratically wasn't he? How would a dislike of his administration, indicate that I am attached to de...

I have no opinion on that. Obviously, increasing power to the unethical is unreasonable. So as much as the will to be ethical is not the same as the w...

I don't see how you can say that. Suppose some man wants to get married, and makes a proposal to his girlfriend. Is getting married to her not his goa...

It is a proposal, but for the person who's proposing it, it's a goal, or else there'd be no proposal. To the others it's just a proposal.

I have no attachment to democracy. You've proven yourself wrong again. Yes you've demonstrated that quite well, the unethical may uphold realpolitik. ...

Sure, but don't you think it needs to be proposed before it's voted on. That's exactly the point I'm making. We need to go through the procedure of ma...

It's you who's implied that we need to determine "the best" course of action in order to compromise. That's where the stupidity lies. Doesn't "comprom...

There is no such lack of resources, and capacity to determine. That's the excuse of a quitter. What you express is weakness, lack of ambition, lack of...

Not only would you and I disagree on what reasonable is, I notice that politicians disagree on this as well. What "makes sense" to some doesn't to oth...

OK, so now we approach the issue. Some goals are reasonable, and others are not. You think politics should be involved solely with fulfilling goals (r...

I understand a communal goal as a common goal within a community. You understand a communal goal as a goal of an individual who exists within the cont...

You don't seem to understand the difference between a communal goal, which means a group of people having the very same goal, and a group of people wh...

What is at issue is whether a goal necessarily begins its existence as just the property of one mind, prior to becoming a common goal. If so, then any...

You said "goals are just goals". That implies that they are self-existent. You didn't seem to recognize that a goal is a property of a mind. That the ...

No, goals do not exist independently of minds.

Now you've described a communal goal. You all share the street, you all share the goal of keeping the street clean. It is this "sharing" which creates...

You're obviously wrong. Goals are individualistic in nature, they stem from our own desires. The fact that you live in a community, amongst other huma...

You mean Trump actually getting involved in war? That's really scary, isn't it? The guy can't even hold his tongue, I'd hate to see his finger on the ...

A president who will not consider warfare is seen as weak. Russians already see this and they will take advantage.