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Philosophyforums.com refugees

dclements January 25, 2017 at 14:41 13900 views 52 comments
After the old defunct philosophyforums.com was sold and was no longer maintained I kind of quit doing the whole philosophy forum thing altogether (also there was personal stuff I had to take care of). However I noticed that some of the old forum members are at this forum (instead of another forum that I have been visiting) and wanted to reach out and talk a little bit to see who else is here. :D

Comments (52)

Jamal January 25, 2017 at 14:50 #49817
Hello and welcome @dclements. I'm here 8-)

In case you don't know, we set up this forum specifically for PF members when it was sold back in 2015. Many of us suspected things wouldn't turn out well over there.
dclements January 26, 2017 at 19:16 #50145
Reply to jamalrob
Thanks. :D

I remember getting a email or PM about many forum members relocating to another site, but that was before the site stopped working and other issues that required my attention and caused me to stop posting for awhile. By the time I started posting again it had been awhile since I got the message and wasn't sure where to find it to use the link to get here.

Anyways I'm just glad to see someplace that has some of the old forum members in it. :)
Maw January 26, 2017 at 23:43 #50221
Hey @dclements I joined about two weeks ago for the same reason as yourself.
m-theory January 26, 2017 at 23:46 #50223
Reply to dclements
Welcome back.
Ying January 27, 2017 at 00:39 #50260
I sometimes post on here, too. Currently busy playing Overwatch though, so there's that.
jojo January 27, 2017 at 15:49 #50389
I was briefly a mod on the old philosophy forum about 11 years ago (as notquitethere). It's remarkable how the new owners could mess the place up so much. Maybe the residual ad revenue covers their costs? Goes to show that a community discussion group shouldn't be run for profit.
S January 27, 2017 at 19:57 #50430
Quoting jojo
I was briefly a mod on the old philosophy forum about 11 years ago (as notquitethere).


Wow, that was a long time ago. Way before my time. Although, even for me it has been 7 years, which also seems like a long time ago.

Anyway, welcome.
Agustino January 27, 2017 at 20:12 #50436
Reply to Sapientia How old were you when you joined PF? 14? >:O
S January 27, 2017 at 21:16 #50448
Quoting Agustino
How old were you when you joined PF? 14? >:O


I wish. That'd make me 21, which is actually how old I was when I joined PF. But people often assume that I'm about that age anyway, and are surprised when I tell them my age. Apparently I look several years younger than I am.
Agustino January 27, 2017 at 21:17 #50449
Quoting Sapientia
I wish. That'd make me 21, which is actually how old I was when I joined PF. But people often assume that I'm about that age anyway, and are surprised when I tell them my age.

Handsome young lad, what can you do :D
S January 27, 2017 at 21:18 #50450
Quoting Agustino
Handsome young lad, what can you do :D


Are you coming on to me? ( >:O )
Shawn January 27, 2017 at 21:18 #50451
Arrived at PF first as "willowz", got banned and came back as Q~uestion. Now I'm here as 'Question'...

Kinda funny...
S January 27, 2017 at 21:19 #50452
Quoting Question
Arrived at PF first as "willowz", got banned and came back as Q~uestion. Now I'm here as 'Question'...

Kinda funny...


Really?! You're willowz?! I remember that guy. Never knew. (Or maybe I did, but forgot).
Agustino January 27, 2017 at 21:21 #50454
Quoting Sapientia
Are you coming on to me? ( >:O )

Yes I want to grab you by the :-x >:O
Agustino January 27, 2017 at 21:24 #50458
Quoting Question
Arrived at PF first as "willowz", got banned and came back as Q~uestion. Now I'm here as 'Question'...

Kinda funny...

Yes but you had special powers there... you used to send fucking anonymous messages... I was very jealous of your powers >:O
S January 27, 2017 at 21:44 #50469
Quoting Agustino
Yes I want to grab you by the :-x >:O


:o

(L) (L) (L)


>:O
Agustino January 27, 2017 at 21:49 #50474
Reply to Sapientia Fock meah, as you Brits love to say >:O >:O
Wosret January 27, 2017 at 21:50 #50475
Ha, I was there like ten years ago, 2007 I believe. Think March maybe.
S January 27, 2017 at 21:56 #50478
Quoting Agustino
Fock meah, as you Brits love to say >:O >:O


Not sure in what part of Britain people say it like that. Up North, perhaps.
Jamal January 27, 2017 at 21:58 #50481
Quoting Sapientia
Up North, perhaps.


There be dragons.
Shawn January 27, 2017 at 22:23 #50500
Quoting Sapientia
Really?! You're willowz?! I remember that guy.


Yeah, I kinda changed a lot since then. I guess L. Wittgenstein does that to you. Quietism for the win!
mcdoodle January 27, 2017 at 22:26 #50503
Quoting Sapientia
Up North, perhaps


Fock you, we say Up 'ere.
mcdoodle January 27, 2017 at 22:27 #50504
Reply to dclements Welcome, or welcome back :)
jorndoe January 28, 2017 at 02:31 #50606
Welcome @dclements, 'bout time you got here. :)
jorndoe January 28, 2017 at 02:37 #50609
Quoting jojo
I was briefly a mod on the old philosophy forum about 11 years ago (as notquitethere). It's remarkable how the new owners could mess the place up so much. Maybe the residual ad revenue covers their costs? Goes to show that a community discussion group shouldn't be run for profit.


forums.philosophyforums.com sure seems like a ghost town now.
(Think I may have joined in 2008 or thereabouts.)

For-profit or otherwise, regular maintenance/attention is required.
@Paul and the admins/mods did a pretty good job of that.
TimeLine January 28, 2017 at 03:31 #50625
Quoting Sapientia
I wish. That'd make me 21, which is actually how old I was when I joined PF. But people often assume that I'm about that age anyway, and are surprised when I tell them my age. Apparently I look several years younger than I am.


So you're 28. :P
ArguingWAristotleTiff January 28, 2017 at 13:23 #50736
Welcome back dclements!
unenlightened January 28, 2017 at 13:41 #50760
What's with all this welcoming refugees nonsense. Send them all back, they'll only create problems and undermine our civilisation.
Metaphysician Undercover January 28, 2017 at 14:19 #50786
Reply to unenlightened Send them back where? The homeland has been demolished.
Streetlight January 28, 2017 at 14:20 #50787
Their problem not ours. Make PF great again.
Benkei January 28, 2017 at 14:36 #50789
Check out my thread. It's the best. You won't believe how good it is. All the others are fake. Total lie. It has more replies than the shoutbox.
Agustino January 28, 2017 at 15:16 #50810
The viruses are pouring in through our borders! Our borders are like Swiss Cheese people, we have to build a firewall!

In fact that's exactly true. That's why we all left PF... >:O

It had no borders!!
jorndoe January 28, 2017 at 16:31 #50830
Quoting unenlightened
What's with all this welcoming refugees nonsense. Send them all back, they'll only create problems and undermine our civilisation.


We must build a big firewall!
Agustino January 28, 2017 at 16:37 #50831
Quoting jorndoe
We must build a big firewall!

And PF will have to pay for it - most important! (Y)
Maw January 28, 2017 at 16:41 #50832
I had just turned 20 when I joined the original PF and now I'm nearly 27 :-O
jorndoe January 28, 2017 at 16:43 #50833
Part of larger initiatives, that may have some historical ... precedents:

User image
unenlightened January 28, 2017 at 17:16 #50841
Reply to jorndoe I thought there was something in the constitution about not having an established religion. Anyway, we should obviously be doing the same here. Priority for orthodox physicalists.

And an end to the aborting of threads too. I'm sick and tired of grabbing people by the idea only to have them murder their unwanted ops.
jorndoe January 28, 2017 at 18:20 #50854
Let me just be a bit dramatic for a moment. :)

[quote=Animal Farm by George Orwell]ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL, BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS.[/quote]
[quote=1984 by George Orwell]The old civilizations claimed that they were founded on love or justice. Ours is founded upon hatred. In our world there will be no emotions except fear, rage, triumph, and self-abasement.[/quote]
[quote=1984 by George Orwell]To die hating them, that was freedom.[/quote]

On a lighter (and funnier) note:

"INAUGURATION DAY" — A Bad Lip Reading of Donald Trump's Inauguration (4m:26s youtube)
Thorongil January 28, 2017 at 19:13 #50864
Reply to jorndoe The US can choose who can immigrate to the country by virtually any criteria it wants. The constitution legally applies to US citizens, not to those who are not. The US doesn't have to let in a soul if it doesn't want to, and this wouldn't conflict with the constitution at all. And all countries practice selective immigration. We need more engineers? Then we'll privilege them over and against people of other professions. Simply put, there is no right to immigrate and no wrong committed by refusing to let some people immigrate. In the present case, the argument can be made that Christians and other non-Muslim minorities in the Middle East are the most in danger and in need of assistance, so I see nothing wrong with privileging them as refugees over and against others from the region.

Some sort of vetting is necessary in any event, since the US cannot be expected to take in all the refugees in the world indefinitely. Resources are finite and would be better employed trying to solve the problems that are causing the refugee crisis to begin with. One of them is the lack of a strong military presence on the ground, which was completely taken away by Obama against the advice of the military. The transition to democracy takes time, but Obama never gave it time to develop in Iraq. We have had large, now arguably superfluous, military forces in Germany and Japan for more than half a century, which originally helped their transition to peaceful democracies after WWII. Yet we completely pulled out of Iraq in its infancy and left them to the dogs of ISIS who seized on the military vacuum.
BC January 28, 2017 at 19:13 #50865
I heard that God is starting to use the phrase, "so help me Trump" whenever He has to take a Divine Dump.
BC January 28, 2017 at 20:01 #50876
Quoting Thorongil
The US can choose who can immigrate to the country by virtually any criteria it chooses


Agreed. This is part of the "sovereignty" deal. Sovereign nations not only can, but have a responsibility to control their borders. If they don't want short or left-handed people, they don't have to admit them.

Quoting unenlightened
I thought there was something in the constitution about not having an established religion.


There is--the establishment clause. The Government can not "establish" a religion like the Church of England or Islam. (This was added to protect religion from the state, not just the other way around.)

Quoting Thorongil
In the present case, the argument can be made that Christians and other non-Muslim minorities in the Middle East are the most in danger and in need of assistance


The current Islamic persecution of Christians is closely connected to the 1979 Islamic revolution in Iran, the Shiite / Sunni civil war after the collapse of the Saddam Hussein regime in Iraq, and ISIS and Al Qaeda in the middle east and elsewhere, like Nigeria. The percentage of Christians still living in the middle east has fallen from 10% (1900) to about 3% today. Israel and Lebanon are the only two middle east countries where Christians are free to practice their religion.

Yazidis and Zoroastrians also experience continuing oppression under Islam.

Quoting Thorongil
Some sort of vetting is necessary in any event, since the US cannot be expected to take in all the refugees in the world indefinitely.


And nobody else can either. There are scores of millions of refugees from all sources, not just the million or so that made it to Europe recently.

Refugee advocates have a vested interest in refugee settlement. Groups like Catholic Charities and Lutheran Social Services are responsible for a lot of the settlement activity, for which they are paid under contract with the State Department. Aside from contracts, advocates are highly focused on whatever their particular issue is.

Have we decided that economic migrants and refugees are a force of nature which are no more controllable than the weather? What are India and Burma going to do when Bangladesh finally floods later in this century? Burma almost certainly will be unable to help a lot; India hasn't solved it's own envirommemtal problems, let alone taking on an influx of 30 million rising-ocean refugees.
Thorongil January 28, 2017 at 20:37 #50883
Quoting Bitter Crank
And nobody else can either.


True, which is why they need to be spread around. At the moment, the Arab states and Turkey have not done their fair share of taking in refugees.

Quoting Bitter Crank
Have we decided that economic migrants and refugees are a force of nature which are no more controllable than the weather?


It would appear so. A crusader during one of the Albigensian massacres once allegedly said: "Kill them all; God will sort them out." The modern, uncompromising refugee advocate merely replaces the word "kill" with "accept," while retaining the same unwarranted, absurd faith in a just and happy outcome.
jorndoe January 28, 2017 at 21:20 #50895
Quoting Thorongil
In the present case, the argument can be made that Christians and other non-Muslim minorities in the Middle East are the most in danger and in need of assistance, so I see nothing wrong with privileging them as refugees over and against others from the region.


From memory, something like 8/10 ISIS victims have been Muslims. More?
There's been refugees fleeing the onslaught with small children, walking the highways of Europe. Children that ought be learning how to read and write and add numbers, in a stable environment, instead.
I'm sure there's a ... non-zero chance of a terrorist hiding among them ... apparently to the bad luck of the remaining majority.
Might as well admit that discrimination is being implemented, based on the likes of (ir)religious affiliation, culture, or whatever.
Thorongil January 28, 2017 at 23:29 #50930
Reply to jorndoe Christians are especially vulnerable in the region, as are other non-Muslim minorities. This claim doesn't have solely to do with ISIS and nor is it meant to downplay the violence done to Muslims.

Quoting jorndoe
Might as well admit that discrimination is being implemented, based on the likes of (ir)religious affiliation, culture, or whatever.


Yes, that's exactly what it is, and there's nothing wrong with it, as I have already shown. The only way for it to be wrong would be if all religions and cultures were equal, whereby one isn't any better or worse than another, in which case choosing between them for immigration purposes would be arbitrary and irrational. But they are not equal and so it is not irrational to discriminate.
S January 29, 2017 at 10:18 #51029
Quoting TimeLine
So you're 28. :P


Are you a mathematician? :-O
TimeLine January 29, 2017 at 10:18 #51030
Quoting Thorongil
A crusader during one of the Albigensian massacres once allegedly said: "Kill them all; God will sort them out." The modern, uncompromising refugee advocate merely replaces the word "kill" with "accept," while retaining the same unwarranted, absurd faith in a just and happy outcome.

There are a plethora of reasons for the refugee crises, the historical, access to weapons, foreign factious interference and your uneducated generalisations is painful to read. If anything, the violence is far more profitable for the US but security and economics associated with war should never outweigh the life of a human being. 5000 people who drowned in 2016 in their attempt to find somewhere safe would not have taken that risk if their concerns for their own safety were not serious. Focusing on the root causes is the sustainable option for implementing change.

I work with refugees and I have heard stories directly from young girls telling me that they witnessed someone getting beheaded publicly or that they were raped or that they witnessed a family member die. They deeply appreciate the opportunity being here and much more than the privileged who spend their time and money on the fleeting completely oblivious to the world at large.

How on earth you managed to connect a refugee advocate to something like kill them all; God will sort them out is just unfathomable to me.

S January 29, 2017 at 10:27 #51031
Quoting Question
Quietism for the win!


Shhh... not so loud.
Thorongil January 30, 2017 at 06:59 #51289
Reply to TimeLine I'm thinking of a certain type of advocate: the unthinking kind. So don't be so hasty in your defamations. You'll notice I didn't say "refugee advocate," but "uncompromising refugee advocate," the unpacking of which would deflate your charge.
bert1 January 30, 2017 at 09:19 #51292
Quoting jamalrob
There be dragons.


Dragons with victim mentalities
TimeLine January 30, 2017 at 10:14 #51297
Quoting Thorongil
I'm thinking of a certain type of advocate: the unthinking kind. So don't be so hasty in your defamations. You'll notice I didn't say "refugee advocate," but "uncompromising refugee advocate," the unpacking of which would deflate your charge.


An ‘unthinking advocate’ are the kinds that are uncompromising apologists defending that moron and the conservatives as a whole by justifying the most inane, discriminatory policy by utilising the tactic of blaming advocates for their dedication to human rights.

Projection, much?
Thorongil January 30, 2017 at 14:46 #51339
Baden February 01, 2017 at 11:42 #51828
Reply to dclements

Welcome dc. Good to see another former PF reg row ashore. (Y)

And a bit late, but welcome too @TimeLine.