flannel jesus

he replied to your last reply my brother

the reason I know Michael's answer doesn't work... is related to the recursion you're speaking of, I think, I would phrase it like this: His logic for...

Yeah I think that's probably true. I changed my mind

Thinking about it more, I probably am wrong. Maybe it never explodes to infinity

I don't know why, I can't justify it right now, I feel as though it explodes to infinity at some threshold. Like imagine I know something. Maybe you k...

at two blue, everyone sees a blue at three blue, everyone knows everyone sees a blue at four blue, everyone knows everyone knows everyone sees a blue....

How do they learn that? The elder could easily have brown eyes, as far as she's concerned. I think so too. I wanted to spark some debates.

Why would they have?

I don't think so. I only think blue eyed people can leave. Anybody else can have any possible eye colour, they have no way of knowing

that gives us an easy way to measure bullshit in this thread. See which group is having an easier time defending their position - the group that's hav...

I take it as a suggestion that maybe you experience the consequences of interference constantly, as a matter of course, but they're just... normal. Th...

Do you have a solid concept of what the experience of interference would be like? What kinds of experiences would you be expecting, if there were inte...

That doesn't seem like a downside to me. Who says interference at classical scales needs to be anything other than very very small? After all, we've p...

At some level it's going to be fundamental. There's not going to be a deeper "how" sometimes, eventually it's gonna be "because those are the rules". ...

don't start at 100. Start at the minimum possible number of blue eyes. It's gotta be something like 3 or 4 right?

that's my take, for the "guru says nothing" scenario. I have no reason to think that logic doesn't hold all the way to to 100, or any other number

in his defense, he did learn that the logic he laid out doesn't work for 2 blue eyed people, nor 3. I think he's teachable but just impatient. He keep...

Yes! Will they?

So, we've established that IF there were only 1 blue eyed person, he'd leave on the first night, right? "They are all perfect logicians -- if a conclu...

You won't find it odd if you allow me to show you the rest of the logic. Shall I lay out what happens with 2 blue eyed people?

There were no "rules" about how many people can be on the island. It's an island. However many people you want are on the island. I laid out the scena...

so you're inventing nonsense to be confused about, and now you're inventing stuff to be angry at. Try to use logic and think about it. Let me know if ...

So, now imagine this: 2 blue eyed people, 198 brown eyes. Guru says "I see someone with blue eyes". What do you think happens then?

"people" aren't misundedrstanding anything. Only you. Person, singular. You're getting tripped up on literally nothing. You're inventing stuff to be c...

ah I see, I guess I didn't notice when you switched...

But you think if there's 100 blue and 100 brown, and the guru says nothing, they can leave on the 100th day?

Do you think that if there were only 2 blue eyed people, and the guru didn't say anything, they could leave on the second day?

I'm asking you to imagine something. That's it. Either you can, or you can't. If you cannot imagine any different scenario than the one presented, the...

Your logic relies on the statement "everyone sees one blue". That's not true if there's one blue eyed person.

I don't even understand what you're asking.

except for the fact that premise B wouldn't be true in that scenario. Are you just refusing to acknowledge that I said that? If there wer eonly one bl...

I'm asking you to imagine something. Can you do that?

If there were only one blue, then it WOULDN'T be true that everyone sees at least one blue.

I'll work my way up to the answer. Imagine instead that of the 200 people the guru was speaking to, 199 of them had brown eyes and 1 had blue eyes. Th...

all 200 people. This puzzle isn't trying to trick you with wording. The most natural interpretation of that bit of the text is that ALL of the islande...

ps I'm sorry for being rude. You getting confused about what "the islanders" meant or the eye colours just seemed... concocted. But if that was all ge...

Your paragraph here shows you were pretty adept at getting over most of your self-inflicted confusions. You're right about the setup. The elder saw al...

it genuinely seems like you're trying to be confused

yeah, totally, i get it. I get why it seems like you ought not to need the guru. But when none of the proofs work, and you can't even bootstrap the de...

For him the next step is just imagining someone says something.

I agree with you, but that's kinda scary isn't it? It's such a fundamentally important concept, to pretty much everything in life, especially philosop...

You telling me something doesn't make it true. If the logic works, there's got to be a point at which it works. If there's no n at which the logic wor...

so what number n does it start working at? Not 2. Not 3. Which one? Shouldn't it work at n=3 then? But we've both agreed it doesn't.

why are you so eager to skip to the end solution without building up working premises first? There's a pattern here. We proved that it doesn't work fo...

"the blues would have all left on day 3 if there were only 3" Doesn't that rely on the logic working for n=3? If you think the logic works for n=4, bu...

Okay, so... you wait for day 4, you think "the blues would have all left on day 3 if there were only 3", and then you leave on day 4 as a blue with al...

so what do you deduce? What's the rest of it? You've only given half a story here. You see 3 blue, 3 brown, 1 green, green says nothing - what do you ...

okay so you've completely bypassed all of unenlighteneds reasoning now. You're entirely on your own here and nothing you say relies on his logic at al...

okay no problem. So Tommy can deduce it?

OK, thank you for clarifying that, last time this came up you said "No, because this is one of those n=2 scenarios that I explicitly accept doesn't al...