flannel jesus

I think adding "we all know the same thing" is something unnatural you added tbh. It's not in the problem statement. It's basically cheating yourself ...

but they all know they could, and they all, according to you, know exactly the same thing, so they all know they could subtract 95 and it would still ...

Either way, I know that everyone with my eye colour knows exactly what I know, and so knows that if every person commits to the rule: "if the n people...

Yes but you don't know that every person will do that. Therein lies the problem

the point you were focusing on is it's validity. You enter some premise - some premise that isn't derived from the problem statement - and if you can ...

but you also know it's a valid argument if you replace a2 and B2 with this premise: Every person commits to the rule: "if the n people I see with X ey...

it might be, but unfortunately it exists in a sea of equally valid arguments with equally arbitrary premises. Suppose they replace 2 with committing t...

Seems like it requires mind reading to me for them to assume that about everyone else. If they all could assume that about everyone else, sure, they g...

a premise that comes from where? Why would one of these blue eyed people think of that particular premise?

what is 2? What do you call that? It's not part of the setup. It's not a known fact about the scenario. It's also not a necessary consequence of the s...

okay so if that's not valid, then when you start out unsure if you're on an island with m blue eyed people or m-1 blue eyed people, you can't rely on ...

and I'm trying to talk to you about that. You have this here: if the n people I see with X eyes don't leave on day n so that means, surely, that it's ...

if I don't agree with your conclusion we can't continue. Yeah okay buddy. I don't know why you want to talk to anybody lol. This is a philosophy forum...

sure it follows. This is a deduction puzzle. You see 99 people with blue eyes, you have two possibilities: either you're on an island with 99 blue eye...

You're skipping steps again. Usually you skip up - you go from some low number, get tired of thinking about that, and skip all the way up to 100. Now ...

they can't count themselves. They can count everyone else

can you describe what the problem is?

do you still think that, or you just used to think it?

Holy shit, can you fire your daimon and get a new one? If that's their job, my daimon needs retraining.

This is actually kinda usual for this particular puzzle. I brought this up on another forum 12 years ago and the same thing happened - someone with mo...

I'd be willing to explore his angle too but he doesn't bite on anything! Like I tried to meet him where he is, at 100, and it took him a long time to ...

That's up to people who think we have souls to argue. But it stands to reason that they'd have to say bodies would do something different without soul...

If it weren't, then it seems you could remove the soul and expect a person's body to behave the same way. Which seems weird, especially because our bo...

There's one way scientifically to discover souls exist, and that is to discover some significant physical behaviour inside of a brain that cannot be e...

I swear to god it will be easy to convince him if you just convince him to start with small numbers. He's allowing himself to get confused by the numb...

I think maybe it makes this one not correct. Maybe you have to say more, like the plane crashed because the bomb went off and it broke the left engine...

macroscopic causality is always a bit fuzzy around the edges. Someone concludes the plane crashed because someone exploded a bomb on the plane. Does t...

we agreed that it can't work for 2 people. 2 people don't leave on the 2nd day. You seemed to understand why that means it can't work for 3 people, so...

well then that logic should work when there are just 3 blue eyed people. But it doesn't. I really want you to consider the lowest possible number this...

Why would they commit to 3?

if there were only 99, then no they wouldn't think it's not possible for blues to leave on day 98. That's what we're reasoning about. We're reasoning ...

Why would 99 leave on day 99 if they didn't reason that only 98 would leave on day 98? You're saying 100 would be able to leave on day 100 because the...

I think they should be taken seriously too! I'm not implying otherwise. I do see a lot of people not talking physicalism seriously, which I think is o...

I'm not saying anybody is going to leave on day 98. I'm saying the statement, "if there were only 99, they would leave on day 99" can only be true if ...

right, and in order for that to be true, that only 99 would leave on day 99, then it must also be true that only 98 would leave on day 98, right?

okay let me rephrase, I thought you would understand my more casual phrasing: Your logic relies on it being true that if there were only 99, they woul...

I'm really not trying to be sense here but, doesn't that make the answer to the question "yes"? Yes, if there's only 99, they leave on the 99th day.

well one side has something to do - the physical side has literally every bit of research they've been doing and are continuing to do. They obviously ...

I was imagining myself as one of the blues though, putting myself in the place of BL1. That's what I was going for

And just to be clear, we can apply this to 3 blues. Imagine 3 blues and 5 browns and 1 green. BL1(#X) sees 2 blues, and looks at one of them (#Y) and ...

It might not be the explicit premise you're trying to focus on, is what I'm saying, but it's still a direct consequence of the reasoning you're trying...

So if the 99 you see leave on the 99th day, on the 100th day you'll conclude you have blue eyes anyway?

X knows that everyone knows that guru sees blue at 3 blue. But we've already established that 3 can't leave on the third day. You're trying to address...

Just to recap, We've already agreed that it does make a difference for the case of one blue eyed person, and two, and three. There must be some number...

okay so I dare you to not leap to thinking about 100, and think about smaller numbers. We've talked about 2, we've talked about 3, I think we agreed 2...

That's what makes this puzzle so interesting. Truly, that's one of the biggest points, and why people find it fascinating. It's weird. It's hard to ex...

This is the logic being discussed, right? But we already have a simple, straight-forward case that this logic doesn't work. We know, because he's alre...

Causation itself isn't even in the category of things we're talking about. It's the meta-category of those categories of things. Minds interacting wit...

I don't know what physicalism of a kind means. I don't think the mind thing is comparable. There are physical facts that are simple enough to be model...

He's been ignoring me since I tortured him for eternity. In his defense, that's a pretty good reason to ignore someone