Patterner

I agree. Because if something does not have physical properties, then it is not physical.

That is not how physical is defined. If something does not have physical characteristics, then it is not physical. Just as if something does not have ...

It certainly has physical characteristics. But it also has non-physical characteristics. Such as consciousness. Unless anyone can point out any physic...

That's my point. Eyes are physical. Consciousness is not.

Being countable like physical objects is not a requirement for being considered physical. Heat and lighte have other physical characteristics, even if...

Of course you can quantify heat and light. We do it all the time. We feel heat on our skin, and can measure it in degrees with a thermometer. We can s...

"Tangible" is just one physical characteristic. Not every physical thing has every physical characteristic. But you can't call something physical if i...

I think the only way to put it is subjective experience. It can't be worded in any physical way. If it could be, someone would be able to give me what...

Seeing and licking are physical processes. We can describe and measure them physically. And we can discuss the lower level structures, down to the par...

Certainly we are physical. At least in part. I believe not entirely, but maybe someone will tell me of consciousness's physical, quantifiable characte...

I guess we could say any fatal disease threatens it's own existence by possibly wiping out all hosts. But it doesn't work out that way. At least not w...

This is, of course, the point of contention for many. As said, it's just a statement of belief. It's not an argument or evidence for that belief. It w...

Indeed. And what other species acts in ways that disturbs the equilibrium so badly that we are concerned it might wipe itself, if not all life, out?

Yes. Chalmers mentions the hurricane in this video: The same for stellar evolution, which, certainly, nobody considers to be a supernatural process. T...

The definition of "magical" can only be something along the lines of: Something that operates outside of the laws and properties of this reality. Our ...

If subjective experience is fundamental, we do not need neurons. Everything subjectively experiences. If something does not have neurons, then it does...

I am trying to understand the simpler model. You agreed thatBut then you said "I cannot describe thoughts in terms of neurons any more than I can desc...

We don't need AI to help us accomplish our downfall.

Ok, wrong word. You agreed they are the same thing. But they can't be described as the same thing. I am trying to understand your position. Can you gi...

Maybe so. But not understanding how it works is certainly not any sort of evidence that it is a physical process. I'm wondering if you can tell me how...

People treated each other as horrifically in the past as they do now. The gap between the wealthy and thre destitute has existed at all times. So I wo...

Do you have any thoughts on how that works? Why are progressions of physical arrangements self-aware? I can see how electrons moving from atom to atom...

I see. But if we can't in principle explain our reports and behaviors regarding our own conscious experiences in terms of physics and biology...

I think I'm thinking what AI is thinking. I would bet anything nobody used the phrase "racial privilege" in the US the 1700s. But, holy cow, it existe...

Can you elaborate?

The "first person" part is not a mystery, as you say. It's the "experience" part that is the mystery. It seems to meet you are saying brain states and...

So then you don't think consciousness has any bearing on anything? It is epiphenomenal?

i'm not sure if I'm reading you right. Are you talking about P zombies? In which case, I don't think they would make those exact same kinds of claims....

I believe we have been thinking about consciousness, defining it, incorrectly. Most of what you said doesn't apply to my thinking. My position is that...

That's all any theory of consciousness is. And that's playing fast and loose with the definition of "theory". Who is making predictions with their the...

I hear ya. I became the moderator of the politics forum at a site I hang out at, because the people were being horrible. If it was not a site I loved,...

But physicalism can't explain the existence of the experiences in the first place. Why are what amounts to hugely complex physical interactions of phy...

Is your idea that, if I knew your brain's unique physical structures in all possible detail, I would be able to experience your experience?

The mystery is how it experiences at all. Why should bioelectric activity traveling aling neurons, neurotransmitters jumping synapses, etc., be consci...

The DVDs came out years ago. With extreme anticipation, I waited for S3E19, Wake Up Call. A great episode. Shelly shed her skin, Maggie meet the were-...

I've never studied anyrhing relevant, but it seems to me it's possible that it was always there, but nobody thought to name it? Yes. But I don't see t...

The ideal would be for everyone to not be offended, ands ignore it. Then, those who love to offended wouldn't bother trying. It's no fun if it doesn't...

You're right, of course, that it's not provable either way. The thing is, there's no reason for me to feel anything about my decisions if they are all...

:up:

I have not. Earthsea is my favorite series of books every. (Tied with a few others.) But I haven't read most of her other stuff. Guess I should check ...

It seems to me there could be a scifi story in what you're saying. If we came up with a way of thinking about something that actually changed its beha...

Not for me. I feel many choices as I'm making them. I struggle with them, looking for a reason too give one option a leg up. Yesterday, I had two scoo...

I don't know if anyone at all agrees with me, but I say the order of the bases in DNA mean amino acids and proteins. I don't see how it's possible to ...

One thing that might help take your ego out of the pictures is to pay attention to how someone who treats you badly treats everyone else. They treat e...

I do agree. But your wording makes me wonder if we view it differently. There is meaning, and there is order. We find those things.

I hadn't noticed. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

It would make things easier if only intentional causes were called causes, and the other kind called something else.

Can you give an example of an activity someone perceives and mistakes to be an object?

Perhaps. But is it likely that someone who thinks they are perceiving an object is actually viewing an activity?

Can you give an example of something a person is actually perceiving that does (edited to correct stupid auto correct) not have temporal extension?