Patterner

This is my point. It is something with its own ontology above and beyond the physical process of an experience. It is our experience of hearing an A m...

Necessary or not, it is a feeling about drinking it that the machine or very distracted person does not have. Isn't that the point? How can something ...

Yes, that's what I mean. That's why it's not redundant. My experience of it is something extra. Something on top of just drinking it.

I haven't been reading nearly all of this thread, so I don't know if you're speaking from a stance other than what I get reading it in a vacuum. But i...

Everyone please bear with me. As with many things at TPF, I've never heard of this. Are you speaking of a category? Or are you speaking of things that...

How is that determined?

Perhaps if I say G. Crombies, people will know what I mean.

I'm not entirely sure how you mean everything. But I like your idea, and have a thought. I propose adding a person, Jane. You are Peter. Alexa and I a...

Glad things are going better. :smile:

What's wrong, Dominic? Cat got your tongue? :rofl:

Since this thread is intended to discuss common ground between the thoughts of humans and other species, perhaps a new thread, discussing differences,...

:up:

Ok. Just wasn't sure if you thought I was saying anything about creation stories, or anything at all in any religious vein. Sorry about your Thanksgiv...

Were you still speaking to me when you said this?

This is from Feeling & Knowing: Making Minds Conscious, by Antonio Damasio: This is from Journey of the Mind: How Thinking Emerged from Chaos, by Ogi ...

:rofl: Ok then!

Exactly my point.

After it leaves the hand, that is. When it leaves hand isn't determined.

I have no idea, myself. I don't know anything about how certain appendages went from forelegs to wings. I don't know what the intermediate steps were,...

Sure. Just as, at one time, there was only one species of animal on the planet that had the ability to fly, even though other species were able to mov...

Thank goodness that's finally settled! :rofl:

Forgot this. Extinction Level Event.

You mean with this?No two species on earth are 'utterly' different. That's impossible. I couldn't guess what the full list is, but, at the very least,...

Mistake lol

. Yeah, they can be jerks. Which makes for great videos on fb. :rofl: Why do you suppose we relate our ethical principles only to use? Why don't we ho...

We still die from diseases, just as other species do. We die if we fall from great heights, which many other species do not. We take in energy the way...

To deny that humans are leaps and bounds above any other species in significant ways is willful ignorance. Proportionally, we are not the fastest, str...

Not buy a long shot. Which is all nonsense. People who want to be cruel will spin whatever they can to justify their cruelty. Nothing matters more. Wh...

Let me rephrase. There is a significant difference between our species and every other species. Bats are the only mammals that can fly. I'm not saying...

That certainly seems to be the premise in the beginning. But few things are so simple, and The Matrix is not one of them. It's not a simple prison-bre...

I quite agree. However, while that may explain why there is no species with which we don't have such a social and informational difference, it doesn't...

I agree. And looking back, I see that I wrote while too tired, and was on too many sites. I explained myself badly. Perhaps I'll be able to do better ...

That's not the premise of the movie. The premise is not having a choice. Most of humanity is ignorant of the fact that it is in the situation it is in...

I've never heard that there is a general consensus regarding from what free will is supposed to be free. But if it's physicalist determinism, then wil...

I'll add that I disagree with #2. If the 'free' means free from determinism, and will is random, then it is free from determinism.

Yes. But why don't they have the social and informational systems we have? They haven't developed these things, despite being in our homes, seeing and...

Nothing. And that is a problem. I would think it couldn't work that way in this particular fictional setting. But it's a fictional setting, and there'...

It might be good to use different words? I would say non-physical things are real, and physical things are real.

I don't disagree with any of that. (Maybe "false simulation" is redundant?) I still don't know how you disagree with Wyatt I said. And if you object t...

Cypher knew what the real world was, that the Matrix was a simulation, and he chose the simulation over the real world. I don't know how you can disag...

I haven't read all of the thread. I know this was being discussed early on. But I don't know who actually said they held that position, and had no ide...

If it was because of complexity, I suspect there would be a chart on which all living things are placed in order if complexity, with different punishm...

I think we're having different conversations. I'm talking about whether or not we have abilities that language-less species do not have, and, if so, w...

I disagree. I don't think Cypher thinks The Matrix is more real. I think he prefers it. I prefer chocolate cake to peas, but they are both real. I pre...

By just as real, I mean that, although the impulses reaching the brain do not originate in physical objects, the experiences of them are just as real....

I don't know if there is a True, or Prime, reality. If there is, I don't know if the event is in that category. But if we take it as the starting poin...

I really don't understand what you're saying. I'm saying those inside the Matrix are having real experiences, are facing real choices, and are making ...

How would that be judged?

No. Nearly 99% off all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice. Even if they were only aware of the choice at a near un...

Maybe these two things are not incompatible. Maybe we can't develop all beliefs without language. But, once developed, they can be expressed without l...