frank

Right. So since most political terminology is vague to some degree, we need not worry if "fascist" or "neoliberal" are used in a derogatory fashion. T...

I read that the white guy in question was both a tracker for hire and a conservationist who helped fund elephant preservation through hunting fees. Pu...

If people call each other "fascist" when they aren't really fascist, does that kill the diagnostic power of the word?

You can use the animal's brain to tan the hide.

Tuskless elephants have evolved in Mozambique

Probably not.

No, their indignation makes them hyperventilate.

I think he was sitting around drinking one time and he thought, "I should create a universe where "Pearls before Swine" makes sense. And the rest was ...

How does God come up with this stuff?

Likewise we can reject the crowded-impersonal-world as fundamental. Reject to your heart's content.

As Manuel pointed out, the experiment supports property dualism, with or without some sort of unspecified monism underneath. I don't see why science c...

Well, I'm not surprised. :razz:

Experience of sight would likely be a factor in decision making for a human. It's just not a necessary component of the function of sight.

:heart: I think there is neurological development that happens in infancy, so an alien could go through a human childhood.

I'm just a retrobate liar. :fear:

It's just not part of the function of sight.

The word "physicalism" often, I would say usually, implies rejection, ontologically speaking, of about half of Descartes' dualism. The way you're defi...

I mean, can you imagine the chaos and bloodshed that would overtake the world if we didn't all believe exactly the same things? It shivers the timbers...

There's a large chunk of philosophy of mind that explores this from various angles, from functionalism to p-zombies. It would be difficult to make the...

Of course. Simple deceit. How could we have overlooked that?

Remember, you don't need the experience of sight to have the functioning elements of sight.

So that leaves the question, though, why Strawson's physicalism? Is it just an expression of monism? Is it more politically expedient?

Would it? I don't think science offers any assurances of that. Why are you so confident?

I disagree, but ok. :nerd:

The idea is that if you know everything about the physical aspects of sight, there's something extra you learn from actually seeing. I think you're sa...

Skepticism always wins. It can't be killed. We just tend to move on from it (or ride past it unmolested as Schopenhauer put it).

I'm familiar. It's not too hard to pinpoint Jackson's target. It's an attack on physicalism. Why are we debating that?

Color is the object of her new knowledge.

It's knowledge of color.

Yes. This is just standard skepticism. How do you know the words you just said to me don't translate as "Fire at will" to me? You don't. Yet you scrib...

She experienced color. Is an orgasm a more complete, more data rich, description if the physical system of human reproduction? Not for me. I think Jac...

Jackson created the argument as an attack on physicalism. Are you saying it fails so spectacularly that we need not even address Jackson's point? Her ...

I'm not following you, sorry.

Ok, but I want someone to take the pro so I can take the con. It sounds like you understand the argument. Would you want to take the pro side?

The argument is specifically meant as an attack on physicalism, so I think there might be a little relevance.

You have to understand the argument before you try to refute it. You're doing neither.

Right. That's all you need. Having had a novel experience, she knows something new. If there are scrutability issues, it has no bearing on the argumen...

I remember seeing that in the DSM: Disagreementosis cum me.

We would assume she already had the ability to see red, there was just none in the environment. It should be a no-brainer that she learned something n...

Keep your eyes on the object of knowledge in the thought experiment. It's going to hinge on your theory of knowledge more than reducibility. I think.

Having an opposing view will unleash the zombie apocalypse.

The argument is that Mary's experience is new knowledge. She has knowledge of something that isn't physical.

Right back atcha! Happy Halloween!

Having an opposing view is the same as committing genocide Having an opposing view is the same as blowing up the whole planet, causing time to stop, a...

He did write a response to it.

This is an argument for qualia, and against physicalism.

She already knew about those changes.

I think that shows it's more of a sense than a concept. But maybe your point is that without the concept of color, we wouldn't remember seeing color?

I think the thought experiment is supposed to have implications for physicalism, along the lines of: there are aspects of the mental that aren't physi...

But how would you describe the concept of color? Of red?