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:up: I think it's still that, even for some professional philosophers, even for atheists. By some perhaps, but even despisers of the 'spiritual' are c...

Yes. I guess that's the central problem. Politically, decisions must be made. So we vote. Almost no one gets exactly what they want, but it's better t...

To many it was a great accomplishment (perhaps 'the' intellectual accomplishment) to achieve such a view of nature as a system of 'laws' or tendencies...

'A rectangular whittling silver lovely little French old knife' does sound weird. Interesting (but unsurprising?) that it's opinion(value) first. Grea...

:up: I like this way of looking at the issue.

These days reason as is 'animating principle' is likely to look like anthropomorphism. We're back to the idea of nature as an encompassing 'machine' t...

I think there's a version of this in Kojeve, since he describes stoicism and skepticism as escapism for the slaves who are afraid to challenge their w...

That seems to be part of it, maybe even most of it, but I don't see why making distinctions isn't a skill.

That seems highly likely. https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Alexandre_Koj%C3%A8ve Kojeve's work 'naturalizes' Christian mysticism in some way...

Just consider how zygotes end up composing philosophy. Does a zygote possess the faculty of reason? If so, then why not earthworms? Is it even correct...

The 'rules' are just structures in the way we talk. Before we develop a complex tradition of studying the ways we talk (like trying to clarify what 't...

:up:

:up: I completely agree. I think the only thing that's generally resented or feared about mysticism is its perceived tendency to invade others' 'spiri...

I think this is just a good analysis of the everyday notion of meaning. 'It's raining outside.' 'Little drops of water are falling from the sky.' We h...

OK, but you've just ignored or neglected my points about language.

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Excellent reply and I pretty much agree. I do think it's hard though to avoid the unequal valuation of people.

I do wonder whether it's exactly ultimate truths that we're seeking or rather a role for ourselves in this mess of a world. Who should I be? How shoul...

To 'naturalize' esotericism would be to take it as myths and metaphors. To the degree that cognition is intrinsically metaphorical and that metaphor d...

:up:

Thanks!

Yes. It's very hard to escape this structure. Is it possible to decide what is a gift (valuable knowledge, freely offered) and what is self-praise? Pr...

How do you respond to this point? (from the Blue Book thread.)

As you know, smart people have held that view. What does 'real in their own right' mean exactly? There's no way to anchor something like 'pure meaning...

Earlier in the thread, I suggested that (naturalized) inner circles are actually common. You mention math, a good example, but even in philosophy ther...

I'm just suggesting that the concept of the 'totality' (all of the reality) is problematic. I'm not saying that we can't or shouldn't use it but that ...

Nice point. This fits in with the idea that esoteric statements are (serious) 'poetry' expressing worldviews and self-concepts. The sage is often unwo...

I've bumped into John Wisdom for the first time in an anthology of analytic philosophy. Good stuff! Online texts are sparse, but... https://iep.utm.ed...

Consider this (more from Hof): http://worrydream.com/refs/Hofstadter%20%20Analogy%20as%20the%20Core%20of%20Cognition.pdf

Right. But, roughly, a proposition and a jazz performance aren't false in the same way. 'True' and 'false' seem to me just as flexible as 'real.' For ...

I think concepts/analogies work just as well.

To me this leads into social ontology, the manner of being of 'public' entities like meanings. My view on this is predictably Wittgensteinian (and Feu...

We might think of a species (form) as compared to organisms of that species (particulars). Roughly we talk in terms categories/concepts. 'A dog tried ...

I thought I'd share this passage on Plato's Forms to see what you (and others) make of it. https://home.uchicago.edu/~wwtx/plato.pdf

Very relevant text. Isn't authenticity a quiet theme here? How does one distinguish between spontaneous friendship (which is bound to be selective, I ...

I think some version of the sage is dear to every philosopher. Not I but Reason thru me. Not I but Science thru me. The sub-sage self is a distortion ...

Right, and we might think if Nietzsche, the philosopher-artist , who spoke of 'rank' and the 'pathos of distance.' The great philosopher is a creator,...

Agreed. At least with the mechanic you can see if your car starts. I suppose a person could get high on the aura of a guru and their 'car starts' in t...

Almost dinner time, but I'm intrigued by this.

I don't put all sage-types on the same level. I've checked some of them out. Anyone who gets famous just by talking has some kind of skill and insight...

I didn't have any particular theory in mind and I'm not trying to link you to creationism. To what degree are esoteric statements functioning as quasi...

That's the clever way to do it! I googled Osho last night out of curiosity and saw the front page of the website. I find it nauseating, such blatant c...

To me this seems like a point-at-infinity, an impossible ideal to strive toward. The image reminds me of a god or of God, a serene and benevolent tran...

I haven't studied Teilhard, but I'd probably agree with you. I have enjoyed some sophisticated theology at times.

I think there's a naturalized esotericism that's defensible (like an inner circle that gets some metaphor as a metaphor, or an inner circle that gets ...

Same here.

:fire: :flower: :death: (I'm enthusiastically agreeing.)

:up: I agree that it mostly fails as a concept. That being the case, maybe a 'total' explanation also fails as a concept?

Same here. I've actually ordered the paperback version of Lange's History of Materialism and just last night The Garden of Epicurus by Anatole France....

I wish someone had told me that before I chewed up my copy of his essays. :starstruck: :sweat: :grimace: :vomit: