Jamal

You got me.

I'd just like to clarify for anyone reading this that when I say "attitude", I don't mean it in the sense of a way of thinking (although it can be tha...

Just what I was thinking.

You never eat the same soup twice.

Sounds reasonable. Off the top of my head, yes, so long as we're not talking about the environment as it is beyond a possible perception. I could try ...

Well, for my taste you put too much weight on the synthesizing of the manifold, and not enough on the environment. Too much about the perceiver and no...

The way I see it, this is just a truism. Maybe you're interpreting it more strongly. I'm not saying the cup in the cupboard doesn't look like anything...

Knew I'd get through to you one day :grin:

Aye I think that's roughly where I stand.

That's pretty much it, yes, but I want to say that this as a pretty strong realism. The talk of transcendental stuff could be misleading. However, cur...

I think the article is quite clear that I'm attacking indirect realism more than advocating direct realism. Indirect realism is a way of thinking abou...

We await @"fdrake"'s monster post with eager anticipation.

I get the point, but I think it's not a good one. There is no mirroring going on. Why would you expect direct perception to produce faithful reflectio...

I think you go wrong here. What exactly is modified? Taking you at your word, you mean the perception is modified. I don't know what this means. The p...

Maybe.

Yes, I see that now. Maybe I was pandering to the masses.

That's a sad story.

I wanted to take the AI course at university when I first started learning programming but they abandoned it at the last minute and I ended up doing t...

So we're just deflecting at each other now. One way you could go is to argue that because it's possible, as far as I know, that I am just a brain in a...

I feel honoured to be have been here at the moment you posted this, possibly the longest post in your forum career. I also agree with it--as far as it...

I'm a benevolent caretaker. Carry on. EDIT: Welcome to the forum :-)

Disagreement is all right. Don't take it personally. I think I did answer it. If nothing speaks for your hypothesis, and everything against it, then w...

There's a difference between computer science and programming. It's like the difference between pure mathematics and engineering. I'm not educated in ...

I think I can, and I am. And I answered this already.

No, I think what you've given me is a popular idea from science fiction, which some "pioneers" think might be actually possible, but which we have no ...

That's a surprise. I seem to remember having pretty much the same debate with him since I joined the old forum. I guess that means I've been making th...

Everything speaks for it, and nothing against it.

Agreed.

Coming from the guy who's been making the same arguments for at least 5 years. :wink:

No, I think that's wrong. The widely known fact that dogs don't see colours as we do does not put a dent into anyone's conception of perception.

The difference between computer programming and philosophy is like the difference between making a table and making a sculpture: if you've gone wrong ...

Allow me to jump in here. Let me use the word perspective to encompass all of this, meaning just the way perception works, given that perception is of...

Point taken. I'd be interested to read his argument.

When you say "you", you're referring to me, and I am a body, which very importantly includes a brain. Are you presuming, without argument, that I and ...

Beautifully put.

I'm not sure any more. I may come back to it.

You gathered pretty much right. The article is mostly demolition, not construction. On the other hand, if perception is not generally indirect in any ...

Give me an example. EDIT: Ah, you edited to give an example. In that case, can you find a relevant quotation?

Its advocates are in favour of direct more than indirect, but not in some "things are red in themselves" kind of way. That's a caricature of indirect ...

Sure, but I don't see how that goes against my point. Fire engines are red to most people, if you like. It doesn't matter. The point is not that red i...

No. I dunno, maybe fdrake can explain things better.

Huh? The relational approach answers all this. Red things are red, but only to certain perceivers. I don't think you understand my mockery of the ques...

What's wrong with the relational approach, that you and Marchesk might both be familiar with from other posts of mine, about colour realism and other ...

But this is not true. Humans have known about these experiences since the earliest times, and we know about them individually from an early age. Indir...

This doesn't answer my objection, and merely repeats what I objected to.

No, that's not what he says. External reality is the stuff we see in everyday life, the empirically real. The noumenal is that which can only be thoug...

No, it is a relationship to an object, one that constitutes perceptual awareness.

Well, the issue of directness, certainly as played out in the realist vs realist debate, is mostly bypassed by the way I've described perception. One ...

First, "we see room furniture, not head furniture" might not address the point you're interested in here, but it addresses Marchesk's point that what ...

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