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The five senses as a guide for understanding the world?

Jack Cummins November 21, 2020 at 20:15 7550 views 33 comments
On a daily basis we are aware of the world as encountered through our five senses: sight, hearing, taste, smell, and touching. Is this a useful means of encountering the world, as we know it? Does it reach the limits of experience for the baseline, as the starting point of our philosophy adventures?

Comments (33)

Deleted User November 21, 2020 at 20:52 #473366
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
Banno November 21, 2020 at 21:18 #473370
Jack Cummins November 21, 2020 at 21:27 #473375
Reply to tim wood I believe that the sensory experience is an important part but is limited in the face of our own experience of the experience of ego, mind as an abstract part of identity and as an multidimensional experience.

I am into understanding the senses, especially for creative writing and believe that this should be carried forward into philosophy too. But I am inclined to think that the senses are a mere baseline.

I am inclined to think that there are aspects of experience which can only be touched upon by few, philosophers or creative artists, but this is speculation. My point could be crumbled by the dagger of philosophy, but it may survive in the writings of the broken philosophy, of those whose egos have been torn asunder through the harsh lessons of those who are torn asunder by painful experiences, but hopefully this is part of the raw material for philosophy.
Banno November 21, 2020 at 21:33 #473380
Quoting Jack Cummins
I believe that the sensory experience is an important part but is limited in the face of mind and multidimensional experience.


Mere mysticism. Here the conversation must end.
Jack Cummins November 21, 2020 at 21:38 #473385
Reply to Banno But is this an abstract an of identity or is it the basis of the life as we know it on a daily in its most raw form,?
Banno November 21, 2020 at 21:40 #473386
Reply to Jack Cummins I've no idea what you are asking. Is it profound, or just muddled.
Jack Cummins November 21, 2020 at 21:55 #473390
Reply to BannoI am sorry that my message is blurry but my mum is almost snatching my phone from me ,
puzzled by what I am writing .

What I am trying to say, not sure if you or others will understand, is that our senses are important for understanding our human quest It s our whole inheritence of thought which is the subject matter of the dilemmas of life at this point in time.
Banno November 21, 2020 at 22:26 #473397
Reply to Jack Cummins As the article I linked above points out, the information from our senses is brought together into a unified whole. The resulting integration is indeed more than what is provided by our senses alone.

Add to that the history of our sensing; the stuff about how the world has behaved in the past; that's more than we are sensing now.

And add what has been said and heard, what we understand from being part of a community.

All of this might fit your description of sensing as a mere baseline.

But if you want to add something supernatural, something mystical, then I'll not be joining you.
creativesoul November 21, 2020 at 23:21 #473410
Reply to Banno

Well put.
Jack Cummins November 22, 2020 at 09:59 #473534
Reply to Banno
I do believe that the use of the five senses as a whole is extremely important, which you argue, including reference to an article, which you say that you are including as a link. I think that you actually forgot to include the link.

I am not really arguing for supernatural extras as such, but do think that our whole way of philosophising cannot be reduced to the senses or the brain. Identity and ideas stem from our brain, but each of us as unique individuals develop a narrative, which is an interpretation of our sensory experiences. This narrative is part of the essence of our creativity.
Banno November 22, 2020 at 10:30 #473538
Quoting Jack Cummins
I think that you actually forgot to include the link.


Quoting Banno
Five?


Jack Cummins November 22, 2020 at 13:05 #473577
Reply to Banno
Perhaps we are left looking for a missing link like in Darwin's theory.
Deleted User November 22, 2020 at 15:34 #473606
Reply to Jack Cummins Click on the word Five in
Banno's post two posts up. I'm not sure you don't realize that's a link, but it seems possible.

Jack Cummins November 22, 2020 at 15:44 #473607
Reply to Coben
Thanks, you are right and i hadn't noticed that the word Five was in red, so my eyesight is not as sharp as that described in the article. I have found the missing link!

But I think that the real missing link is the 'I' of the conscious ego, interpreting sensory data.
god must be atheist November 22, 2020 at 16:52 #473615
Humans have more than five senses with the aid of machinery. We translate the machine-sensed ultra-human sensations into human sensations, and we interpret them, and bob is our uncle.

Seeing in complete darkness is one. Accelertion sensing machines is another example. The sensing of voltage and current and resistance in electronic circuits. The sensing of gamma radiation. The sensing of many things I am too stupid to know about. The sensing of magnetic fields.

Those who say to you that your idea is stupid, are stupid. They may call me stupid because I called them stupid for calling you stupid.

You be the judge.
prothero November 23, 2020 at 00:20 #473697
I don't think the five senses have evolved so much to help us "understand" the world as to allow us to survive and procreate in the world. In that respect the senses can be misleading with respect to the deeper nature of reality and are incomplete in showing us all of "reality".
We have extended our perceptions of reality through instrumentation but even that project has its limitations with respect to the intrinsic aspects of nature versus the extrinsic measurable or observable aspects.

8livesleft November 23, 2020 at 01:28 #473709
Our human limitations are what requires us to be a part of a group to sort of give us a more complete picture - but still, the picture is still going to be incomplete as there are forces, zones, frequencies that humans cannot detect but are a vital aspect to the workings of the cosmos and the environment.

One example would be the magnetic field, which many animals use to navigate but some we can barely even detect.

Maybe, if we were to integrate better with nature, we might be able to get a better understanding of these other forces that would make our picture of reality more complete.
Jack Cummins November 23, 2020 at 14:17 #473811
Bertrand Russell said, 'We have acquaintance with the data of the outer senses, and in introspection of what may be called the inner sense- thoughts, feelings, desires, etc.' I think that the role of introspection is important in understanding how we engage with the senses. We are not just machine-like channels, taking in the vast sensory world. We would be overwhelmed. We take an active role in selecting meaningful experience, and this has been recognised in field of the psychology of perception.

I am suggesting the importance of mind in enabling us to be conscious creators of meaning. This is not denying the insights of neuroscientists, but I disputing the more behavioural perspective. The point which I am making is that we have choice in selecting, as minds, in selecting how to engage with the outer world.

This enables us to build an inner world and autobiographical constucts, interpreted in the form of language. What I am saying may be seen as obvious, or some may dispute it, but I think that our role as architects of our inner world is essential to being human and to our freedom to find pathways to revision our lives.
god must be atheist November 23, 2020 at 15:26 #473827
Quoting prothero
I don't think the five senses have evolved so much to help us "understand" the world as to allow us to survive and procreate in the world


Understanding processes how they work is a vital part of survival skills. Their precision with correspondence to reality is key. More precision, better survival.
TheMadFool November 23, 2020 at 16:31 #473847
A small tidbit from many years of painful and painstaking research - food is the only thing that stimulates all five senses. Food can be touched (with your hands), seen (with your eyes), tasted (with your tongue), smelt (with your nose), and, finally, heard (with your ears). No other thing can stimulate the senses in such a comprehensive manner - our relationship to non-food things is exclusive to one or more but never all of the senses available to us.

A song is for the ears, A painting is for the eyes, a perfume is for the nose, a massage is for touch, and as for the tongue, it's the point where all the senses intersect.

There's something special about food and if one looks at the cortical homunculs (ref: wikipedia), a sizeable portion of our cerebral cortex is dedicated to the tongue. Go figure!
Jack Cummins November 23, 2020 at 17:27 #473864
Reply to TheMadFool
Yes, of course it is true that food is one aspect which which engages in all the senses. When I went to creative writing workshops, which encouraged engagement with the senses, I saw this exploited to the extreme when a woman wrote about tasting the lasagne on someone 's mouth while kissing them.

Another issue about multiple engagement with the senses is the whole phenomena of synethesia. I do have some experience of this because I sometimes feel able to see sounds. In particular, if I close my eyes while listening to music I can see visual images. However, I think that this blending of sight and sound may be because at a certain point in development the eye and the ear develop from the same nodule. Some people have a certain amount of natural synethesia naturally but of course that can be simulated by mind altering drugs.
TheMadFool November 23, 2020 at 20:40 #473893
Reply to Jack Cummins Complete synesthesia or fivefold synesthesia is different to what I'm talking about. Synesthetes with fivefold synesthesia experience different sensory perceptions via association and not because the trigger itself has the necessary stimulus to fire the concerned neurons. Food, on the other hand, has all the stimuli to engage all five senses.

To elucidate my point, imagine a synesthete X who when recalling a certain telephone number experiences the smell of roses. Numbers, we know, don't have odor molecules and so it's impossible for them to even smell let alone give off the fragrance of roses. In other words, numbers lack the necessary stimuli to fire our olfactory neurons and so, synesthesia in this case is closer to being a hallucination.

Food, on the other hand, has all the stimuli necessary to engage all five senses i.e. the activation of all five senses while eating is quite far from being a hallucination.
8livesleft November 24, 2020 at 09:45 #474102
Quoting Jack Cummins
I am suggesting the importance of mind in enabling us to be conscious creators of meaning. This is not denying the insights of neuroscientists, but I disputing the more behavioural perspective. The point which I am making is that we have choice in selecting, as minds, in selecting how to engage with the outer world.


Yes indeed. We can only absorb a limited amount of information and so we naturally end up filtering what doesn't fit with our world view.

So, 2 people can live in the same neighborhood and one can perceive a nice safe place but the other may see danger around every corner.

Besides mere filtering, we also end up reinforcing this belief - by keeping company with like minded individuals, favoring publications and hobbies that suit their perception.

So what is basically a shared reality becomes split into very different worldviews.
Jack Cummins November 24, 2020 at 11:43 #474119
Reply to TheMadFool
Yes, I can see your point that food is the one aspect of the world that depends on the the multiple use of all the senses and this is probably due to the wiring of the brain for survival.

Reply to 8livesleft
I think that the whole idea of filtering can be traced back to the philosophy of C D Broad which draws upon the ideas put forward by Henri Bergson in 'Creative Evolution.' Broad spoke of the nervous system, including the senses and the brain as having a 'reducing valve' and being 'eliminative' and the role of this in perception.This is connected to the selective aspect of our interaction with the senses.

In thinking about the way we filter our sensory experiences it is likely that we often filter information which fits into our world view. It probably occurs subconscious in filtering our information to fit into our thought system and probably at the worst it sustains prejudice. But mindset is probably also a factor. For example, if one is feeling low in mood it would be more likely to tune into hearing comments of a critical nature. Concentration and attention also play a factor. I know that when I have been told that when I am concentrating fully on something, especially reading, I can become almost oblivious to my sensory surroundings.

Yes, I am sure that when we go out and about we look for elements of life where we meet people with similar views but this is probably going into the area of social psychology. But the basic questions of the world of the senses itself at the heart of questions about how we acquire knowledge and the basic emphasis of the important of the world of the senses is the main argument of empiricism.

Your question of where shared reality becomes split into different world views is complicated because it involves the whole question of the development of belief systems. But in terms of the senses we could say that each person's sensory aspect is unique, as conveyed in the way in which each of us draws a picture differently.

8livesleft November 24, 2020 at 11:53 #474122
Quoting Jack Cummins
It probably occurs subconscious in filtering our information to fit into our thought system and probably at the worst it sustains prejudice. But mindset is probably also a factor. For example, if one is feeling low in mood it would be more likely to tune into hearing comments of a critical nature. Concentration and attention also play a factor. I know that when I have been told that when I am busy concentrating on something, especially reading, I can become almost oblivious to my sensory surroundings.


I can totally relate haha

Anyway, yes I agree that all those things come into play in adding obstacles to how we see or don't see things.

I believe this is why it's necessary for us to be with others to sort of calibrate our view of reality. Even if we're of the same mind, like you said we'll never experience something exactly the same way and so we need to agree on some standards or some base concepts that are true regardless of our perception.

That's kind of why I don't like how divisive media can get. It's pegging people into either being this or that when both views are important.
TheMadFool November 24, 2020 at 12:08 #474127
Quoting Jack Cummins
Yes, I can see your point that food is the one aspect of the world that depends on the the multiple use of all the senses and this is probably due to the wiring of the brain for survival.


It's all in the head or in the skin rather :chin:

Book273 November 24, 2020 at 13:12 #474144
Quoting TheMadFool
food is the only thing that stimulates all five senses. Food can be touched (with your hands), seen (with your eyes), tasted (with your tongue), smelt (with your nose), and, finally, heard (with your ears).


Food and Woman: for all the same reasons.

I have patients that experience "hallucinations" involving all five senses, would they, therefore be experiencing an alternate reality?
Jack Cummins November 24, 2020 at 17:29 #474200
Reply to Book273
I have known people who have experienced hallucinations in about two senses at once but never in all five at the same time. The multisensory hallucinations must be a challenge for the doctors. Perhaps they have got hold of the strongest skunk weed possible.The closest to this that I can think of is the mescalin altered world which Aldous Huxley describes.

Huxley states that, 'Under a more realistic, a less exclusively verbal system of education than ours every Angel(in Blake's sense of the word) would be permitted as a sabbatical treat, would be urged and even, if necessary, compelled to take an occasional trip through some chemical Door in the Wall of transcendental experience. But the current world of psychiatry seeks to forbid this transcendent, alternate reality, even when it is achieved naturally.

If William Blake was alive today he would almost certainly be likely to be subject to the administration of a whole possible range of antipsychotics to subdue the angels and demons. What a loss for the world of art and literature it would have been without Blake's altered reality and as far as I know he did not have paranoid delusions.
BC November 24, 2020 at 20:11 #474228
Quoting Jack Cummins
Is this a useful means of encountering the world, as we know it?


It's what you got, so you'll just have to make do with it.

"Life" built up these senses (and the additional ones that @Banno listed) over the preceding many, many millions of years. Sensory apparatus and neural processing had to be sufficient to allow animals to cope with and survive a complicated environment. We share these senses with lots of other successful animals.

Quoting Jack Cummins
Does it reach the limits of experience for the baseline, as the starting point of our philosophy adventures?


Well... in order to have an experience, you have to have both sensory apparatus and adequate neural processing. Our vaunted neural processing allows us to get out ahead of ourselves enough to have all sorts of adventures, philosophical and otherwise.

aRealidealist November 25, 2020 at 10:06 #474409
The main premise of sensualism, i.e., that all our knowledge involves sensations or sensory-information, can be reduced to absurdity, if one first attacks their distinction of sense-organs & sensations or sensory information.

For, if all our knowledge is obtained by sensations or sensory-information, & the latter are what are caused by, & not what are the causes of, the sense-organs (otherwise, we’d have to say that sensations or sensory-information are the causes of, & so existed before, the sense-organs [an absurdity]), then, logically speaking, we could never demonstrate (according to the very same main premise of sensualism) that the sense-organs, in fact, exist. In other words, if the sense-organs supposedly are what are the causes of sensations or sensory-information, & not the effects of them, & all our knowledge solely involves sensations or sensory-information, we then could never, therefore, actually sensibly demonstrate the causes of sensations or sensory-information, i.e., sense-organs, because our knowledge solely involves the effects of them, i.e., sensations or sensory-information; & as no effects can be identified with the causes of them, our knowledge as sensations or sensory-information can’t be identified with the causes of them, i.e., sense-organs: we thus have no sensations or sensory-information (which, according to sensualism, can be the only basis of knowledge) of the existence of the sense-organs (a contradiction against their very own claim).
Jack Cummins November 25, 2020 at 10:41 #474426
Reply to aRealidealist
I was a bit confused by what you were saying because you wrote a lengthy paragraph which seemed to be one long sentence just broken up by commas. However, on getting to the end it seemed that you were saying that you were challenging the causality of senses.

You seem to be questioning the role of the sense organs, which are presumably the eyes, ears, nose, mouth and tongue, as well as the skin. Our knowledge that these are the senses is primarily our sensory experiences. But probably the neuroscientists can find ways of showing them in terms of feedback to the brain, probably in the way of neuroimaging.

Of course, if I read beyond the surface of your logic we could be left with a new question in terms of why do we need to experience life in sensory terms at all?
aRealidealist November 25, 2020 at 11:37 #474447
Quoting Jack Cummins
... it seemed that you were saying that you were challenging the causality of senses.
Yeah, that’s one way of looking at it; but I would describe it as challenging the knowledge of the reality of sense-organs, & not solely of their causality. So it does seem as if you’ve been thrown off, a little, by my manner of writing. So, to be sure, I’m not solely challenging the knowledge of the causality of the sense-organs but of their reality altogether.

Quoting Jack Cummins
Our knowledge that these are the senses is primarily our sensory experiences.
Yet, but note that the knowledge of these are themselves reducible to sensuous identities, i.e., sensations; & that therefore these can’t be the reality upon which sensations depend or are conditioned.

Quoting Jack Cummins
Of course, if I read beyond the surface of your logic we could be left with a new question in terms of why do we need to experience life in sensory terms at all?
“Why,” as in a purpose? Surely one can explain “how” things are, without explaining why, or for what purpose, they are; & so I’ll skip over the question of why “we need to experience life in sensory terms at all?” & instead proceed to the question of “how” one could possibly raise your question, if sensory information is all there is? Seems as if the very possibility of raising this latter question would provide the answer to it. “How”? By the very same kind of way that we can intelligibly represent, in our question, that which exists other than in “sensory terms.”
Jack Cummins November 25, 2020 at 11:57 #474456
Reply to aRealidealist I am a bit puzzled by your line of argument You say that you are not disputing 'the knowledge of the causality of the sense-organs but of their reality altogether.' So are you querying whether sensuous reality exists at all. Are you saying that we imagine it entirely? If this was true why is there a general consensus at all. It sounds to me like you are describing us as minds, dangling to our body but not really connected.

Are you suggesting that we are associated to our bodies only? Perhaps you could expand on your argument, to clarify your point of view.