Reply to MSC Pissing as many people off as possible seems to work pretty well... Arrogance, ad homs, condescension, confusion, etc. all work pretty well at achieving this task.
Unless you take Pinprick's easy route to engagement--which I don't advise--it can take a while to get noticed. The old timers here tend to engage with each other, and newbies are sometimes ignored at first. Just keep at it.
Mayor of SimpletonSeptember 23, 2020 at 10:58#4550830 likes
You could simply read into posts of others what you care to read and try to hijack the conversation.
For example I could suggest that this is an issue of 'Status Anxiety' ...
...and post this to derail the conversation, resulting in making other try to 're-rail' the dialogue or prompt others to run after all sorts of new tangents you have added to the mix.
"Every Time a Friend Succeeds Something Inside Me Dies" - Gore Vidal
Authenticity can't be faked or bought. You must earn it. It is rare and valuable, so the world will reward you with a louder voice.
That didn't sound rude at all. I mean, the reason artistic careers are usually frowned upon is because they're volatile or unstable regarding money and such. But you have to be good at it! It's not loading boxes; it's the humanities.
Reply to dussias You didn't sound rude at all. It's not as if you said "You are not good at writing."
I appreciate the advice and I do understand.
The problem I feel I am having, is that I am currently aiming to create thoughtful comment and according to a few, I am. Is thoughtful content the same as engaging?
My reasoning, is that I actually want people to find the flaws and breaks in my reasoning. I'm writing a book which basically requires it. I even ended up writing a response here which ended up basically being a script where I had to create character's just to critique the flaws in my own reasoning, but it's like playing chess with yourself except what you are doing has no winner.
Well, Nietzsche's first book is partly titled "How to Philosophize with a Hammer." I find that his methods are quite good.
Thoughtful is different from engaging. Engaging requires it to "hook" people, you know?
On this I can give you some advice. The key element is narrative. Let everything you write be a little story. In the end, it's people you're writing for, and these people like to make the best of their time. So you can provide them with something that's worthwhile, and just by being yourself you are worthwhile. Everything else is form. (More about this on Ray Bradbury's "Zen in the Art of Writing")
Reply to dussias Okay. Applied. Admittedly I may have paraphrased something from Mr Robot, however that is something I like and the topic is philosophy of mind so there is still a question of thought provoking ideas about the self and what Elliot Alderson as a character does to influence my self. That and I give credit where it is due so still playing by rules of philosophical inquiry.
It's weird, just mentioning a Hammer to me right now is one of those things that makes you feel like if fate exists, it has a sense of humour and irony. Will check it out :) Thank you
@dussiasI'm starting to think the problem isn't with me and is with how people react to me.
I'm spending a good few hours taking the time to respond to people with the most qualitative, thoughtful and engaging content I think I can write and yet I fall to the wayside, ignored and my points unused and uncritiqued. While others are pretending I wrote nothing while they carry on having a conversation with others as if I was not there. I don't see what I'm doing wrong but it's quite upsetting that so few if the people I am directing my comments toward straight up ignore me with no explanation as to why. If I was making mistakes in my reasoning then why aren't they picking them out? If I'm not making mistakes in my reasoning then why aren't people acknowledging that?
What do I have to do at this point to just not be excluded from the conversation?
Is there a good reason why neither of you can bring yourself to engage with my writing and openly ignore every attempt I make to engage with you?
Is there a good reason why you are both more entitled to speak here than I am?
Do either of you see me as an equal?
Asking directly because you are both being extremely rude by trying to exclude and ignore me when I have not done the same to either of you. So I would like an explanation. What is your problem with me exactly? Neither of you even knows anything about me. So I don't know where this unjustifiable judgement is coming from but you both need to grow the fuck up and learn how to show others the respect they try to show to you, as equals.
I'm really all ears, if there is a good reason I'd be really happy to hear what you both have to say for yourself.
For what it’s worth, and due to the unlikelihood that either of these chaps will respond, I recall the Srap Tasmaner-meister mentioning that few are worthy of his attention, so you shouldn’t feeling particularly excluded there.
Banno responds well to blatant flattery, so if you’re willing sell your dignity you could try that. Say that his writing is pretty or something.
Srap TasmanerSeptember 25, 2020 at 23:59#4561060 likes
Banno responds well to blatant flattery, so if you’re willing sell your dignity you could try that. Say that his writing is pretty or something.
Yeah, if he wants me to lie to him he can keep dreaming. He doesn't write anywhere near enough for me to say anything positive or negative about the substance of his writing. It's just... Incomplete.
Honestly, I'm surprised anybody cares what I think.
Fair enough. I do actually care though. I care what a lot of people think. I don't like not knowing what people think.
I can't tell you if I should care, I don't know that. Doesn't change the fact that I do, care. If someone has something useful to say then I care. Even if they have something useless to say, that helps me figure out what is useful for me to say to them.
I'm not motivated the same way most people are. I'm self aware and observant enough to figure that out. I am still motivated though.
Srap TasmanerSeptember 26, 2020 at 00:12#4561120 likes
You're getting plenty of engagement, MSC, much more than most who've been here only one week. If someone in particular doesn't reply to you, I suggest you get over it. I've been ignored by the old goat Banno too many times to mention.
You're getting plenty of engagement, MSC, much more than most who've been here only one week. If someone in particular doesn't reply to you, I suggest you get over it. I've been ignored by the old goat Banno too many times to mention
Well this makes me feel a little bit better. Thank you. I guess being here only a week gives me little comparison with which to feel unfairly treated by. Sorry, I'll just suck it up. Not worth getting myself worked up over.
Reply to MSC
We just have to get better at communicating and be patient, you know? At least that's what I've learned from others.
Jorge Luis Borges, one of my favorite authors, one of the most important in the Spanish language and an intellectual but elegant writer, said that if you don't like Shakespeare, don't read it. Maybe it's not meant for you to like Shakespeare at that moment.
The ultimate engagement is honesty, and we need that more than ever. Let me tell you why I enjoy writing back at you: It's because we share something. I share your passion for wanting to write and share ideas. That you want to write a book says a lot about you. And that engagement factor worked its magic by itself.
While there are plenty of tricks and biases due to the numbers and rates of interactions we see on social media, I've found that the most effective way to engage today is to be honest and well-intentioned.
That being said, we still need to write A LOT! Writing is not a science, it's a skill. It's one of those that if you just write a lot, you'll get good eventually and people will just start reacting more to whatever you write. I assure you.
Reply to dussias Thank you for this comment! I suppose I got ti caught up in quantity of replies over quality. If I'd spent more time focusing on the latter, I'd have seen that my posts and comments were more engaging than I first thought they were.
Bit of a tangent, but I have a question. Why do you think we want to write, contribute and share ideas?
An easy answer would be to try to fool death and the absurd.
Maybe through beauty or scientific inquiry; perhaps by trying to push the ideas we deem correct over those we are against. I think it all comes down to how we spend the time trial we defined as "being alive."
To me, writing and sharing ideas seems like a great, fun, and honorable way to do so.
easy answer would be to try to fool death and the absurd.
Fool death or cheat it?
If I said that part of the sum of my life is in my ideas, and my ideas outlive me and stick around. Then has a part of me cheated death? Or were they never my ideas to begin with? Why would I even think it acceptable to think of ideas that cross into my head as my property? Just because they were in my head? What if someone else puts them there? Aren't I then just keeping a part of someone else alive or does the person who put them there run into the same problem when trying to claim proprietary rights?
We can think about Buddhism regarding so, as it proposes that our minds and bodies are just vehicles for these ideas to manifest themselves. Thinking this way eases up the load.
The subject you speak is very dear to me, regarding the acts commitment towards certain ideas or ideals.
But certainly, form is all you. It's about telling the story in your style, with your own words, as it's Borges' or Picasso's. That's where art plays a big part.
My reasoning, is that I actually want people to find the flaws and breaks in my reasoning
To get engagement, forget about your reasoning, and ask questions about the reasoning of others. Most of us most of the time, here and everywhere, want to talk about our ideas, our thoughts, our experiences etc. If you're willing to go along with that, you'll be engaged. You'll be popular beyond your wildest dreams. :-)
And, um, do what I say and not what I do. :-)
Jack CumminsOctober 22, 2020 at 20:30#4639530 likes
Reply to MSC
I am not sure if I have any tips but I think the people who seem to get the most replies are the ones who are most controversial. Often I don't get that many replies, especially to some posts I create and that is possibly because I can be a bit vague. I am inclined to be too sympathetic to others opinions and not fierce enough in my argument.
One thing I wonder about the name you have created. It sounds more like a name for a dalek than a character. With the people who have chosen names for themselves a lot of them evoke strong images whereas yours does not. I think this could go against the creation of your identity on this site.
Mayor of SimpletonOctober 23, 2020 at 12:07#4641030 likes
Comments (29)
For example I could suggest that this is an issue of 'Status Anxiety' ...
...and post this to derail the conversation, resulting in making other try to 're-rail' the dialogue or prompt others to run after all sorts of new tangents you have added to the mix.
"Every Time a Friend Succeeds Something Inside Me Dies" - Gore Vidal
Start with explaining why pragmatism is digging the grave of Capitalism. How am I to understand that cartoon? Sorry I forgot to give you a penny.
I don't want to sound rude but, here it goes.
You must get good at writing engaging content.
Authenticity can't be faked or bought. You must earn it. It is rare and valuable, so the world will reward you with a louder voice.
That didn't sound rude at all. I mean, the reason artistic careers are usually frowned upon is because they're volatile or unstable regarding money and such. But you have to be good at it! It's not loading boxes; it's the humanities.
I appreciate the advice and I do understand.
The problem I feel I am having, is that I am currently aiming to create thoughtful comment and according to a few, I am. Is thoughtful content the same as engaging?
My reasoning, is that I actually want people to find the flaws and breaks in my reasoning. I'm writing a book which basically requires it. I even ended up writing a response here which ended up basically being a script where I had to create character's just to critique the flaws in my own reasoning, but it's like playing chess with yourself except what you are doing has no winner.
Well, Nietzsche's first book is partly titled "How to Philosophize with a Hammer." I find that his methods are quite good.
Thoughtful is different from engaging. Engaging requires it to "hook" people, you know?
On this I can give you some advice. The key element is narrative. Let everything you write be a little story. In the end, it's people you're writing for, and these people like to make the best of their time. So you can provide them with something that's worthwhile, and just by being yourself you are worthwhile. Everything else is form. (More about this on Ray Bradbury's "Zen in the Art of Writing")
It's weird, just mentioning a Hammer to me right now is one of those things that makes you feel like if fate exists, it has a sense of humour and irony. Will check it out :) Thank you
I'm spending a good few hours taking the time to respond to people with the most qualitative, thoughtful and engaging content I think I can write and yet I fall to the wayside, ignored and my points unused and uncritiqued. While others are pretending I wrote nothing while they carry on having a conversation with others as if I was not there. I don't see what I'm doing wrong but it's quite upsetting that so few if the people I am directing my comments toward straight up ignore me with no explanation as to why. If I was making mistakes in my reasoning then why aren't they picking them out? If I'm not making mistakes in my reasoning then why aren't people acknowledging that?
What do I have to do at this point to just not be excluded from the conversation?
@Srap Tasmaner
Is there a good reason why neither of you can bring yourself to engage with my writing and openly ignore every attempt I make to engage with you?
Is there a good reason why you are both more entitled to speak here than I am?
Do either of you see me as an equal?
Asking directly because you are both being extremely rude by trying to exclude and ignore me when I have not done the same to either of you. So I would like an explanation. What is your problem with me exactly? Neither of you even knows anything about me. So I don't know where this unjustifiable judgement is coming from but you both need to grow the fuck up and learn how to show others the respect they try to show to you, as equals.
I'm really all ears, if there is a good reason I'd be really happy to hear what you both have to say for yourself.
For what it’s worth, and due to the unlikelihood that either of these chaps will respond, I recall the Srap Tasmaner-meister mentioning that few are worthy of his attention, so you shouldn’t feeling particularly excluded there.
Banno responds well to blatant flattery, so if you’re willing sell your dignity you could try that. Say that his writing is pretty or something.
Sorry, I had no idea. I ignore a lot of things and wasn't singling you out or anything.
I mean, feel free to tag me like you did here, but I may not always have something to say.
Honestly, I'm surprised anybody cares what I think.
Haha... Wow, speaks absolute volumes.
Quoting praxis
Yeah, if he wants me to lie to him he can keep dreaming. He doesn't write anywhere near enough for me to say anything positive or negative about the substance of his writing. It's just... Incomplete.
Fair enough. I do actually care though. I care what a lot of people think. I don't like not knowing what people think.
I can't tell you if I should care, I don't know that. Doesn't change the fact that I do, care. If someone has something useful to say then I care. Even if they have something useless to say, that helps me figure out what is useful for me to say to them.
I'm not motivated the same way most people are. I'm self aware and observant enough to figure that out. I am still motivated though.
Ha! Suck it, real life! @MSC and I are having two conversations simultaneously.
Quoting jamalrob
Well this makes me feel a little bit better. Thank you. I guess being here only a week gives me little comparison with which to feel unfairly treated by. Sorry, I'll just suck it up. Not worth getting myself worked up over.
We just have to get better at communicating and be patient, you know? At least that's what I've learned from others.
Jorge Luis Borges, one of my favorite authors, one of the most important in the Spanish language and an intellectual but elegant writer, said that if you don't like Shakespeare, don't read it. Maybe it's not meant for you to like Shakespeare at that moment.
The ultimate engagement is honesty, and we need that more than ever. Let me tell you why I enjoy writing back at you: It's because we share something. I share your passion for wanting to write and share ideas. That you want to write a book says a lot about you. And that engagement factor worked its magic by itself.
While there are plenty of tricks and biases due to the numbers and rates of interactions we see on social media, I've found that the most effective way to engage today is to be honest and well-intentioned.
That being said, we still need to write A LOT! Writing is not a science, it's a skill. It's one of those that if you just write a lot, you'll get good eventually and people will just start reacting more to whatever you write. I assure you.
Keep hacking at the tree, it will fall.
(and what @jamalrob says is absolutely right)
Bit of a tangent, but I have a question. Why do you think we want to write, contribute and share ideas?
An easy answer would be to try to fool death and the absurd.
Maybe through beauty or scientific inquiry; perhaps by trying to push the ideas we deem correct over those we are against. I think it all comes down to how we spend the time trial we defined as "being alive."
To me, writing and sharing ideas seems like a great, fun, and honorable way to do so.
Fool death or cheat it?
If I said that part of the sum of my life is in my ideas, and my ideas outlive me and stick around. Then has a part of me cheated death? Or were they never my ideas to begin with? Why would I even think it acceptable to think of ideas that cross into my head as my property? Just because they were in my head? What if someone else puts them there? Aren't I then just keeping a part of someone else alive or does the person who put them there run into the same problem when trying to claim proprietary rights?
Cheat, too.
We can think about Buddhism regarding so, as it proposes that our minds and bodies are just vehicles for these ideas to manifest themselves. Thinking this way eases up the load.
The subject you speak is very dear to me, regarding the acts commitment towards certain ideas or ideals.
But certainly, form is all you. It's about telling the story in your style, with your own words, as it's Borges' or Picasso's. That's where art plays a big part.
To get engagement, forget about your reasoning, and ask questions about the reasoning of others. Most of us most of the time, here and everywhere, want to talk about our ideas, our thoughts, our experiences etc. If you're willing to go along with that, you'll be engaged. You'll be popular beyond your wildest dreams. :-)
And, um, do what I say and not what I do. :-)
I am not sure if I have any tips but I think the people who seem to get the most replies are the ones who are most controversial. Often I don't get that many replies, especially to some posts I create and that is possibly because I can be a bit vague. I am inclined to be too sympathetic to others opinions and not fierce enough in my argument.
One thing I wonder about the name you have created. It sounds more like a name for a dalek than a character. With the people who have chosen names for themselves a lot of them evoke strong images whereas yours does not. I think this could go against the creation of your identity on this site.
FYI... MSC has been banned, so don't expect a reply anytime soon.