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What is the solution to corruption in 3rd world countries?

Gitonga July 15, 2020 at 05:51 6825 views 25 comments
What is an effective way to curb corruption in 3rd world countries mainly in Africa and south America? Historically speaking how have first world countries gotten rid of corruption? It's sad cause some of these countries loose upto 80% of their budget due to corruption.

Comments (25)

Olivier5 July 15, 2020 at 14:44 #434674
It should also be reduced in North America and Europe. A few ideas:

- ban private funding of election campaigns or cap it to a certain low maximum
- get the state to reimburse election campaign costs within a certain treshold, for all candidates getting at least 5% of expressed votes.
- set up dedicated anti-corruption units in the judiciary to fast-track high-level corruption, and isolate such units from political pressure.
- for petty corruption (mainly) set up a dedicated phone line to report corrupt officials, cops, etc.
- force all elected officials to declare and itemize their wealth, prior and after their turn, in a verifiable manner.
Banno July 15, 2020 at 22:54 #434792
Quoting Gitonga
What is an effective way to curb corruption in 3rd world countries mainly in Africa and south America?

...for first world countries to get the fuck out.
David Mo July 16, 2020 at 09:57 #434911
Quoting Gitonga
What is an effective way to curb corruption in 3rd world countries mainly in Africa and south America?


Put an end to the global corporations.
Put an end to the armies (both imperialist and neo-colonial).
Put an end the bureaucracy.
Put an end to ignorance and superstition (especially religious).
...

Easy, it is not?
Sir2u July 26, 2020 at 02:41 #437243
Quoting Gitonga
What is an effective way to curb corruption in 3rd world countries mainly in Africa and south America?


I live in one, so I have a bit of experience with the topic.

Some of the proposed ideas might work, others no.

Quoting Olivier5
- ban private funding of election campaigns or cap it to a certain low maximum

Ban all funding, make the candidates or their followers pay for what they want or need. Personal checks only.

Quoting Olivier5
- get the state to reimburse election campaign costs within a certain treshold, for all candidates getting at least 5% of expressed votes.

Why should the tax payer have to foot the bill at all? In any country around the world the money is needed in health care.

Quoting Olivier5
- set up dedicated anti-corruption units in the judiciary to fast-track high-level corruption, and isolate such units from political pressure.

In most places they cannot afford to pay enough for these people not to be corrupted. Why would anyone work for a small wage and stick his neck out to catch crooks?


Quoting Olivier5
- for petty corruption (mainly) set up a dedicated phone line to report corrupt officials, cops, etc.

These guys sell or give the info to the bad guys to make a bit extra or keep their families safe.

Quoting Olivier5
- force all elected officials to declare and itemize their wealth, prior and after their turn, in a verifiable manner.

It would probable cost more to verify their declarations than what they are going to steal. These people are clever at hiding the money.

Quoting Banno
...for first world countries to get the fuck out.

Probably the best solution, but they should take their cash with them. If they want to help the starving people of the world they should take the food directly to them, not give it to governments.

Quoting David Mo
Put an end to the global corporations.

Great idea but not going to happen. I am surprised that terrorist have not worked this angle yet.



Sir2u July 26, 2020 at 02:42 #437244
Quoting David Mo
Put an end to ignorance and superstition (especially religious).



I saved this one for last. Find a way and sign me up to help.
TheMadFool July 26, 2020 at 03:19 #437256
Reply to Gitonga An impractical solution is to create different types of money with restricted domain of use. My money would be valueless to you and your money would have no value for me. That way I can't bribe you and you can't bribe me because neither of us has what either of us would want. Oddly, reminds me of coupons and tickets in fairs - they're completely worthless outside the fair grounds. :chin:
Outlander July 26, 2020 at 03:41 #437265
Reply to Sir2u

Bury the human story then. If you don't remember the past it's sure to repeat itself. The solution is thought police. Which is doable if you're the majority. Otherwise, I wouldn't recommend it.

Ironic how backwards and detrimental doing so would be toward preventing corruption, The utopia you imagine is actually a dystopia of the worst kind. I have a feeling people confuse eliminating corruption with eliminating people talking or knowing about it. Am I wrong?
David Mo July 26, 2020 at 08:08 #437328
Quoting Sir2u
Great idea but not going to happen. I am surprised that terrorist have not worked this angle yet.


What are the terrorists doing here? To end the terrorism of the multinationals? Terrorism against terrorism, I don't think it's a good idea.
David Mo July 26, 2020 at 08:11 #437333
Quoting Sir2u
I saved this one for last. Find a way and sign me up to help.


There's no one way. If you're interested in that, you've certainly found a way to help.
Sir2u July 26, 2020 at 15:51 #437435
Quoting Outlander
Am I wrong?


I think so.Quoting Outlander
Ironic how backwards and detrimental doing so would be toward preventing corruption, The utopia you imagine is actually a dystopia of the worst kind. I have a feeling people confuse eliminating corruption with eliminating people talking or knowing about it.


First of all, I do not imagine utopia. Humans today are completely incapable of creating it.

How could eliminating ignorance of any kind cause problems. Education of all kinds is necessary for the advancement of people. If the people advance intellectually it will eventually lead to the end of corruption.

Eliminating superstition can do no harm at all. Don't you think that it would be wonderful if everyone got the vaccine shots they needed to stop things like measles spreading. Myths like the vaccine causes autism are stopping lots of kids from getting their shots.
Would it not also be wonderful if certain peoples' belief in myths allowed them to continue mutilating the genital of their young. Oh, sorry. No it would not be so bloody wonderful would it. That would be barbaric.
And also the myths about certain races being better than others would have to go, but unfortunately that would mean that the idea that certain religions are better than others would also have to be eliminated.

Sir2u July 26, 2020 at 15:59 #437440
Quoting David Mo
What are the terrorists doing here? To end the terrorism of the multinationals? Terrorism against terrorism, I don't think it's a good idea.


I just mentioned them as a side thought.
If I was terrorist and I wanted to bring down a multi-national empire I would not even have to kill people to do it.
If I put bombs in 20 Pizza Hut places around the world and blow them up when they are empty, only property damage would occur. Then I make an announcement that the next 20 bombs will blow up while the place are full and that they might be any where around the world.

Would you go buy pizza?

Blow up a few more over the next few months and no one wants a Pizza Hut concession any more. Down they go.
Sir2u July 26, 2020 at 16:00 #437441
Quoting David Mo
There's no one way. If you're interested in that, you've certainly found a way to help.


I am a teacher, I try to do my part.
David Mo July 27, 2020 at 06:15 #437619
Quoting Sir2u
I am a teacher, I try to do my part.


Good!
Outlander July 27, 2020 at 06:29 #437622
Reply to Sir2u

Eliminating ie. de-incentivising via education and enlightenment versus fascist suppression of human thought and free will in a person's own mind for goodness sake is a world of difference. You can create a system like that, but you won't be able to control it for very long.
_db July 27, 2020 at 07:22 #437635
Quoting Banno
...for first world countries to get the fuck out.


:ok:
Outlander July 27, 2020 at 07:33 #437636
Reply to Banno

That's the paradox. One leaves another comes in. Why not just say the way to prevent death is for life to leave. Lol. Everyone has to make it worth their time or at least cover expense. Difference is, some won't bother with wellbeing of others. Unless they know they have to. Open media they say. Do the most powerful countries not have persons who care nothing about others and just want to smash and grab while keeping a clean image? Absolutely. Instead of being unrealistic, it's best to be discerning. Educated. Connected. And open. Options weighed. Like they say, better the devil you know.
Sir2u July 28, 2020 at 02:34 #437837
Quoting Outlander
You can create a system like that, but you won't be able to control it for very long.


A system where all are truly equal though education would need no control. Ignorance is what allows people to be controlled.
fishfry July 28, 2020 at 02:38 #437839
Quoting Gitonga
What is an effective way to curb corruption in 3rd world countries


And what shall we do about the corruption in a certain first-world country I could name?

Quoting Olivier5
for petty corruption (mainly) set up a dedicated phone line to report corrupt officials, cops, etc.


What could possibly go wrong? East Germany here we come.
Outlander July 28, 2020 at 03:18 #437849
Reply to Sir2u

Who or what stop someone from trying to get ahead or perhaps even steal. Who controls them? This is perfectionist, idealist, utopian... wrongness. Lol.
Maw July 28, 2020 at 03:29 #437850
Quoting Gitonga
Historically speaking how have first world countries gotten rid of corruption?


lol
Daniel July 28, 2020 at 05:06 #437876
Reply to Gitonga I think there is a lack of easily accessible spaces where ordinary people can express and debate their thoughts with each other respectfully and in the absence of prejudice and judgement. Normally, ordinary people has easy access to programs/shows where the opinions of academics, politicians, tv or music stars and other famous people are expressed and/or discussed (i.e., news, tv shows, radio shows, youtube shows, etc.), but I am not sure if a show/program exists where an ordinary person has the opportunity to really express and debate his/her point of view of life as an ordinary person (a program where the host interviews regular people). I think that having access to such a space would help people develop their ideas and their view of the world and also to see their thoughts and own experiences reflected in other people's experiences; I think this would promote communication and empathy, which I think are required for the people to start working towards a common good. While spaces like this forum are amazing, I think they lack the means to reach most ordinary people; in addition, they are too impersonal. Places like this forum, which rely on written debate, lack personal connection between participants which I think is key in any kind of debate. Also, to be completely honest, I have not done enough research to see if places like the one I am trying to describe exist, and if you (whoever reads this) know of any I'd appreciate it if you let me know.

David Mo July 28, 2020 at 06:24 #437896
Quoting Daniel
Also, to be completely honest, I have not done enough research to see if places like the one I am trying to describe exist, and if you (whoever reads this) know of any I'd appreciate it if you let me know.


I agree. An important part of the solution is to create free and respectful spaces for discussion among ordinary people. Preferably real contacts, not virtual ones. Virtuality is inhumane.

First problem: what does free and respectful mean?
Second problem: how can we create these spaces?
Third problem: were these spaces just verbal encounters or could they be prior to action?

Your question: have this type of meetings ever existed? Have they failed?

This type of encounter exists. Or at least, some that look alike.
For example:

Meetings of neighbors.
Community budgets.
Alternative international forums.

I have attended some of them. In my opinion they all end up failing. Why? If you're interested, we'll continue to discuss this.
Daniel July 28, 2020 at 14:25 #437965
.
Sir2u July 29, 2020 at 01:44 #438125
Quoting Outlander
Who or what stop someone from trying to get ahead or perhaps even steal. Who controls them?


So I suppose you are finding it easy to get ahead in the world, soon to be a millionaire I presume.:smirk:
Outlander July 29, 2020 at 07:35 #438194
Reply to Sir2u

I've thought about it. Unfortunately (or perhaps even fortunately) you tend to get less interested in the vain and materialistic dreams we're presented with 24/7. It'd be nice to take some cool and decent people somewhere nice every now and then. Few gifts maybe. Folks who deserve it. Though money, power, and influence are a trio seldom seperate, I just think there are more important things then mansions, yachts, and vacations that surpass the average teacher's salary in cost. Of course. These are not temptations that I have the opportunity to resist or indulge in so, who knows lol.

Myself, I'm fine with edible enough food (seasonings and spices can turn something ok into something great), place to stay, beer to drink, a car that's not a clunker, and a few folks to talk to. Anything else is just anything else. We all like nice things though.