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I voted to keep it as it currently is, but as I said in the other discussion it would be best if any off topic categories are excluded.

Reply to Michael

And as per my reply, good idea. Test running it now (lounge category excluded) .

Too late to adjust the poll, but feedback on the Michael option (now being test run) welcome.

Reply to Baden Technically you could remove the poll, save it, then add it back in again.

Reply to Michael

OK. Apologies to those who voted. Please revote. Option three regards excluding the lounge only. I believe that's the main offender for drawing energy from more serious discussions. If you think more should be excluded, choose option 4 and specify.

(I meant to write 'categories' not 'categoried' for option 2. Thanks phone! But it still makes sense, so I'm not doing the whole thing over again.)

I voted for "Other" as perhaps Feedback should also be removed.

Reply to Michael

Last thing we need is more bloody feedback, eh? :naughty:

I've gone with option three for now.

Anyhow, if we do implement this, I personally hope it will help in encouraging me to post less about the orange-faced circus freak some people have the misfortune to call President. Can't remember his name. Must be working already... :)

Reply to Baden Same. I've been focusing too much on politics and current affairs and not enough on philosophy.

Note that "All discussions" is effectively active discussions or new posts. That's what I like about it, but I have noticed that it means the front page often doesn't have much quality philosophy on it, and is taken up with politics and lounge stuff.

So from that point of view I quite like the idea of using the categories as the home page. I'll wait for a while and then I'll probably try it out.

Oh, it looks like we've already implemented the third option, All discussions excluding the Lounge category. Very well.

The thing I don't like about using the categories is that the individual active discussions are not listed. I think this is pretty bad for a forum home page.

Quoting jamalrob

Oh, it looks like we've already implemented the third option

Yes, test running that. Categories is ahead on the poll though.

Quoting jamalrob

The thing I don't like about using the categories is that the individual active discussions are not listed. I think this is pretty bad for a forum home page.

Yes, and doesn't seem to be any option in the settings to deal with that.

Quoting Baden

Categories is ahead on the poll though.

Yes, but then the other options split the vote, making it more likely that the "categories" option would take the lead, which is a problem in my view, and one that would be resolved with a simplified two option poll. Essentially, it's currently 50/50, as half of the voters want to keep things as they are, with some preferring one or two minor changes, instead of the "categories" option. (8 votes, 4 in favour, 4 against).

I'm in favour of keeping things exactly as they have been (before the trial) for sake of convenience. And I would still prefer the other options to the "categories" option for the same reason.

Reply to Sapientia

In the end, it looks like it's going to come down to categories vs. some exclusions (being test-run now), and it will be up to jrob to choose which. Hardly anyone seems to like the exact status quo much, which is as I expected. What did you vote for?

I'd support trialing categories at the least. I suspect, with JRob, that having individual active discussions not appear might affect traffic - there's alot more immediacy and 'jump-in' potential as it is now - but maybe the loungy/political discussions might be conterveiling forces for some potential new posters too. Hard to say.

Quoting Baden

What did you vote for?

See my edit.

Reply to StreetlightX Well, we've removed all Lounge discussions now, and that's now my favourite option.

Anyway, it's funny, I must have forgotten that this was optional. I'm sure, in the past, I've told members that it couldn't be changed.

Reply to Sapientia

I didn't know it was either until our resident IT whiz kid Michael suggested it might be.

Reply to jamalrob Cool. Funnily enough now I'm worried about the lounge! Would it be too much to pin a notice - at least for those who miss this discussion - that the lounge will no longer show on the front page?

Quoting StreetlightX

Would it be too much to pin a notice

I was thinking of doing that actually.

Reply to Baden So we'll have 4 pinned notices and 2 pretty much identical feedback discussions taking up the front page.

Reply to Michael

Well, I've just unpinned the latest fundraiser as it's run its course. I feel like we should make the presence of the lounge apparent anyhow, especially to newbies. Got an alternative way to do that?

If the objective is to improve the philosophical content of posts, are you not risking making matters worse by removing the lounge from the front page of those who want it there? Will not those who are inclined towards trivial or political posts simply be more likely to add such comments to any vaguely related thread they see on the front page rather than navigate to the lounge to do so?

As things are, those who have little interest in such comments can simply remove the lounge from their homepage themselves.

Quoting Pseudonym

Will not those who are inclined towards trivial or political posts simply be more likely to add such comments to any vaguely related thread they see on the front page rather than navigate to the lounge to do so?

They'll be deleted. If someone wants to post off-topic/low quality posts then they can click on the lounge category option.

I voted "all but lounge topics" -- mostly because I've been on forums where when categories were presented there still ended up being a main discussion hub. So the highly specific categories would often go unchecked.

But it would be nice to have the broad separation between more philosophy-specific and more community-specific topics that you could hop between depending on mood.

I voted to keep it as is.

At the very least The Lounge should be above Feedback but that is just my opinion.

I voted for “other”. By which I mean having a broad category listing. Like all main philosophical discussions in the top 60% or so. Then “Interesting Stuff” discussions below that. The Lounge stuff at the bottom.

Love the Lounge and Shoutbox, along with the topical political stuff. But let’s sandbox it. Put it at the bottom or to the side. Having oddball threads pop up at the top seems slightly off-balance. Even keeping it as this currently modified “no Lounge on front page” thing is fine. The Lounge will be cooler if it’s a secret! :snicker:

Thanks for considering making some changes/improvements. Not an easy thing to do, and it’s impossible to please everyone. But some tweaking may be beneficial here. :up:

Reply to 0 thru 9

Ya welcome :up: And this is looking like the way it will stay (keeping the lounge at the bottom of recent discussions isn't possible with this software). Personally, I love the lounge and the social element here, but the site is primarily about showcasing philosophy, and catering to those that want to do it, and that's what the front page should reflect.

Quoting Michael

They'll be deleted.

I see, then it's just a matter of you and I having a very different definition of what constitutes trivial or politically motivated posts. Or else the mods are simply so overwhelmed with such posts they haven't time to delete them all.

Reply to Pseudonym I haven’t been reading much lately. I regularly check the reported posts lists though, so if you see anything low quality please do flag them.

Reply to Michael

I'm not sure I'd feel qualified to decide. I don't want to provide a load of work for mods just on the basis of what might be an extremely unpopular view of what a quality post looks like.

I was really just following on from John Doe's post which lamented the loss of a more rigorous philosophical tone to posts across the site. My presumption from this was that there existed a reasonable quantity of posts in the main section which were considered by many to be of less philosophical rigour.

If its actually only me that thinks that, then I certainly wouldn't see much benefit to flagging them all, no?

Reply to Pseudonym I feel the same way, even though I know I’m guilty of letting my own quality drop. Part of the problem for us mods is that we’re quite often accused of being too oppressive, so it’s difficult to get the balance right. I think a lot of it really has to come down to the members themselves striving for quality and not relying on us to enforce it, which might just end up driving even good posters away. I don’t think there’s an easy solution.

I'm in favor of the default page being the Categories. That's how many other forums do it. I'm most in favor of creating an American option that lets the user freely decide how he wants to have the site open.

I voted for discussions sans lounge, on the assumption that the categories don't have the latest comment/thread link of the old pf. If it were possible to have latest commented discussions plus links to feedback, politics, current affairs, lounge, that would be ideal... and assuming we can't have a proper incomprehensible shout box that only shows a couple of lines at the top like in the good old days when men were men and philosophers were educated.

Quoting Michael

I think a lot of it really has to come down to the members themselves striving for quality and not relying on us to enforce it, which might just end up driving even good posters away. I don’t think there’s an easy solution.

You're right it is a delicate balance. Are you aware of the reasons why the "good posters" of recent have left the forum?