You are viewing the historical archive of The Philosophy Forum.
For current discussions, visit the live forum.
Go to live forum

Currently Reading

Jamal October 22, 2015 at 09:29 69300 views 3457 comments
Getting back into Proust's In Search of Lost Time. I find it relaxing, like watching snooker at the Crucible on TV on a Saturday afternoon. But it's better than snooker:

[quote=Proust]But then, even in the most insignificant details of our daily life, none of us can be said to constitute a material whole, which is identical for everyone, and need only be turned up like a page in an account-book or the record of a will; our social personality is created by the thoughts of other people. Even the simple act which we describe as "seeing some one we know" is, to some extent, an intellectual process. We pack the physical outline of the creature we see with all the ideas we have already formed about him, and in the complete picture of him which we compose in our minds those ideas have certainly the principal place. In the end they come to fill out so completely the curve of his cheeks, to follow so exactly the line of his nose, they blend so harmoniously in the sound of his voice that these seem to be no more than a transparent envelope, so that each time we see the face or hear the voice it is our own ideas of him which we recognise and to which we listen.[/quote]

Comments (3457)

I like sushi October 25, 2024 at 07:50 #942071
Reply to javi2541997 Hence "fantastical nonsense" and not "fantastical"?
javi2541997 October 25, 2024 at 08:07 #942073
Reply to I like sushi Ah, I get it now. Fantastical nonsense also refers to the crap written in a book by cliché authors. Sorry, I misunderstood you.
Pantagruel October 28, 2024 at 10:38 #942606
The Influence of Darwin on Philosophy and Other Essays
by John Dewey
Count Timothy von Icarus October 28, 2024 at 16:17 #942647
C.S. Lewis' The Discarded Image, developed from his lectures on medieval literature. It's quite good. He does a good job capturing the sense in which manuscripts we to the medieval a bit like what mainstream science is to us (we might allow that the latter is a better means of discovering truth of course!)

"Lucan and Cicero said it, it must be true and we need to work it in somewhere."

Here is a particularly poignant passage.

The daemons are 'between' us and the gods not only locally and materially but qualitatively as well. Like the impassible gods, they are immortal: like mortal men, they are passible (xiii). Some of them, before they became daemons, lived in terrestrial bodies; were in fact men. That is why Pompey saw Semidei Manes, demigod-ghosts, in the airy region. But this is not true of all daemons. Some, such as Sleep and Love, were never human. From this class an individual daemon (or genius, the standard Latin translation of daemon) is allotted to each human being as his ' witness and guardian' through life (xvi).It would detain us too long here to trace the steps whereby a man's genius, from being an invisible, personal, and external attendant, became his true self, and then his cast of mind, and finally (among the Romantics) his literary or artistic gifts. To understand this process fully would be to grasp that great movement of internalisation, and that consequent aggrandisement of man and desiccation of the outer universe, in which the psychological history of the West has so largely consisted.


Lewis is a keen observer of the same phenomenon Charles Taylor looks at. Although, I think the move is more bi-polar than they let on. Man becomes the sui generis source of all meaning even as all reality (as opposed to appearance) is shifted over to the "world" side of the ledger and man reduced to a mechanistic automaton from the "perspective of the really real." Kant's attempt to save God and free will by casting them into the noumena at the end of the Prolegomena is a sort of rear-guard action on this front. So, man is aggrandized even as he is abased. He is finally freed by some 20th century thinkers, only to have this freedom debased into vacuous, indeterminant potency.
javi2541997 November 02, 2024 at 09:28 #943827
Afterlives by Abdulrazak Gurnah.

African literature is unique and pure. Gurnah only focuses on Tanzania and Zanzibar, because these are the places where he was born and raised before moving to London.
I read 'Paradise' the last year and it was outstanding. What I've read thus far, seems to have the same narrative line. A group of helpless young people who had the bad (or good) luck—depending on how we interpret it—of experiencing the beginning of African decolonisation.

I always recommend reading Gurnah. A deserved Nobel laureate and a nice person.
Maw November 02, 2024 at 23:49 #943980
Rethinking Marxist Approaches to Transition: A Theory of Temporal Dislocation by Onur Acaroglu
Pantagruel November 04, 2024 at 13:33 #944541
A Harlot High and Low
Honoré de Balzac
Pantagruel November 06, 2024 at 10:50 #945235
Collingwood and the Crisis of Western Civilisation: Art, Metaphysics and Dialectic
Richard Murphy
I like sushi November 08, 2024 at 10:18 #945805
@Moliere My (long) rambling review of Byung-Chul Han's The Burnout Society
Jafar November 08, 2024 at 11:58 #945811
The History of the Peloponnesian War by Thucydides. I love his clear writing style and his precision. The speeches are amazing too!
Paine November 08, 2024 at 21:48 #945975
Reply to Jafar
:up:
The effortless grace of it is scary.
Moliere November 08, 2024 at 23:09 #946035
Reply to I like sushi Listened to it. It sounds like a complex and meaty book that I'd be interested in.

One critique: I would not reduce the negation of the negation to Nietzsche's Will to Power. But I could just be misunderstanding too.
I like sushi November 09, 2024 at 00:30 #946074
Reply to Moliere I read it a while ago and only skimmed over it before I did the review. Certain parts I will need to read soon.
Moliere November 09, 2024 at 00:31 #946075
Reply to I like sushi o yeah no worries. You said as much in your review.

It definitely sounds up my ally. I just haven't gotten around to reading the pdf yet is all.
Jafar November 09, 2024 at 15:29 #946189
Reply to Paine Agreed! I'm in awe
T Clark November 09, 2024 at 16:13 #946195
Quoting Moliere
It definitely sounds up my ally.


"Up my ally" is what is going to happen to Europe when Trump retakes office.
I like sushi November 10, 2024 at 05:41 #946342
Reply to Jafar What was your main take away from it other than the style of writing?
Jamal November 10, 2024 at 09:06 #946352
Echoes of Gogol continue to rebound. I just read Kafka's Metamorphosis for the first time since I was a nipper. Back then I found it frustrating, but now I love it. Very reminiscent of stories like "The Nose" and "The Overcoat", with a similar humour and creative joy.
Jafar November 10, 2024 at 11:03 #946362
Reply to I like sushi I'm not finished yet so we'll see if I have any takeaways. I think he does a good job at portraying what governs human decision making especially in times of war. He definitely has a certain idea of human nature, but I don't get the feeling that what he says is ever baseless.

The fascination also comes from the fact that despite him writing about events that took place thousands of years ago, it still feels very relevant.
Jafar November 10, 2024 at 12:16 #946369
Do you guys prefer to read a lot of books at the same time? Or do you prefer to focus on one, finish it, and then move on to the next. I'm trying to do the latter because it lets me immerse myself a bit more, but I have my moments of weakness!
javi2541997 November 10, 2024 at 12:32 #946371
Reply to Jafar It depends, but I also prefer to focus on only the novel I am currently reading. However, if I am also interested in poetry, I do not mind flicking through it at the same time.
Jafar November 10, 2024 at 12:36 #946372
Reply to javi2541997 Same here. Maybe I'll read an essay or two but I try to focus on one thing at a time.

What's some good poetry you've been reading?
I like sushi November 10, 2024 at 13:07 #946375
Reply to Jafar Several at a time practically always. Some I get through quicker than others though.

My rule is basically to try and read two or three different viewpoints on the same subject at the same time to weigh and value the ideas better, and to guard against instilling biases.
javi2541997 November 10, 2024 at 13:08 #946376
Quoting Jafar
What's some good poetry you've been reading?


I mostly read haiku. But I recommend you give a try to Sikelianos' poetry. A wonderful poet. There is a 1996 edition of selected poems that is pretty good.
Jafar November 10, 2024 at 14:00 #946388
Reply to I like sushi That makes sense. What subjects have you been focusing on recently?
Jafar November 10, 2024 at 14:03 #946390
Reply to javi2541997 Haikus are lovely! I'll check out Sikelianos too.
I like sushi November 10, 2024 at 14:49 #946397
Reply to Jafar Presocratics, Philosophy of Religion and Mnemonics.
T Clark November 10, 2024 at 18:00 #946439
Quoting Jafar
Do you guys prefer to read a lot of books at the same time? Or do you prefer to focus on one, finish it, and then move on to the next. I'm trying to do the latter because it lets me immerse myself a bit more, but I have my moments of weakness!


I tend to read fiction one book at a time, but non-fiction; generally science, sometimes philosophy; I often read in episodes. If I really want to read a book that is slow going or takes contemplation, I'll read 20 pages a day and then let it sit while I read other things. That way I'm less likely to get discouraged and it lets my thinking about the book percolate while I'm not paying attention.
I like sushi November 11, 2024 at 06:34 #946558
Reply to Jafar What translation are you reading? I have just downloaded copy of 2015 Wilder Publications
Jafar November 11, 2024 at 09:11 #946569
Reply to I like sushi The Oxford Classics version by Martin Hammond. I recommend it
Maw November 11, 2024 at 16:19 #946655
Market and Violence: The Functioning of Capitalism in History by Heide Gerstenberger
javi2541997 November 14, 2024 at 07:29 #947231
A Death in the Family. My Struggle 1. by Karl Ove Knausgård.

After Ove's father drank to death, this Norwegian author decided to write a set of novels called 'My Struggle'.

The collection is formed by six novels, but you can start with the one you want. They are not necessarily sorted.
Mostly, the first novel focuses on childhood, the acceptance of the death of his father, family problems, etc.

A great author that I discovered thanks to Jon Fosse.
I like sushi November 14, 2024 at 09:56 #947244
Reply to Jafar What kind of things are you into? Maybe I could suggest one or two to you if you want.
Jafar November 14, 2024 at 15:25 #947295
Reply to I like sushi I'm reading a lot of ancient Greek stuff at the moment. So a good book on the pre-socratics would be appreciated. What books have you been reading on mnemonics?
I like sushi November 14, 2024 at 15:38 #947301
Reply to Jafar Recently, Lynne Kelly's work. In the past, Francis Yates' work on Giordano Bruno, The Art of Memory. The former is a decent practical and modern investigation, whilst the latter is a raw scholarly work. Have also browsed through translations of Bruno's Statues.

I have been reading a very good source book for Presocratics. It is a good reference. The First Philosophers: The Presocratics and the Sophists, by Robin Waterfield. Probably the most solid resource I have for the presocratics. No nonsense scholarship.

This might be up your street too:
[i]Diogenes Laertius
Lives of Eminent Philosophers[/i]
an edited translation
edited and translated by Stephen White

Was written sometime in the 3rfd Century CE. Of course, not exactly accurate but being closer to the actual time period it offers some insights into how these early philosophers were regarded at this time.
Jafar November 14, 2024 at 16:28 #947311
Reply to I like sushi Thanks for the recommendations. I am going to get myself a copy of Waterfield. It looks great. The Yates book looks interesting too. I definitely want to read, but it looks pretty heavy, so I might save it for later. What do you think of Kelly's Memorycraft?
I like sushi November 15, 2024 at 01:55 #947409
Reply to Jafar Pretty basic. I honestly think it is better to read The Memory Code to understand the power of mnemonics and the traditions in non-literate societies - especially if you are interested in the development of civilization and how knowledge has been passed down over the millennia. Especially interesting if you are interested in the origins of religion too!

The Yates one is fairly dry. Bruno is hard to read too. If you read what I suggested first it will either give your the fortitude to read the others or not. Yates was more interested in the history of occultism so it is more or less a historical account of the different systems employed and there relations to more esoteric uses.
fdrake November 15, 2024 at 09:59 #947496
Quoting javi2541997
A Death in the Family. My Struggle 1. by Karl Ove Knausgård.


I could not get along with this one. Knausgård has the most Norwegian man's narrative voice imaginable. He represents the ancestral urge to escape loneliness by living in the family's country hut in complete isolation.
I like sushi November 15, 2024 at 11:48 #947513
I quick review of Memory Theatre a novella by Simon Critchley
javi2541997 November 15, 2024 at 12:49 #947526
Reply to fdrake It is true that Knausgård wants to get into the deepest point of sadness and loneliness, but it is something I am looking for right now. Authors who are older than me, and they express with a great narrative the sense of loss and melancholy.
It is a 500-page book, and I guess I will be able to finish it -- on the other hand, it reminds me of Fosse and the Norwegian type of narrative. I think it took him 10 years to finish this first novel. Wow...
Jafar November 16, 2024 at 11:02 #947794
Reply to I like sushi Then I'll stick with Lynne Kelly for now. I'm honestly also really interested in learning the mnemonic techniques themselves hahaha.
Jafar November 16, 2024 at 11:03 #947795
Just started the Iliad! It's very fun to read it aloud.
javi2541997 November 16, 2024 at 11:06 #947796
Quoting Jafar
It's very fun to read it aloud.


You mean reciting it loudly in Greek? :smile:
Jafar November 16, 2024 at 11:32 #947798
Reply to javi2541997 I wish! I have to make do with English :cry:
fdrake November 16, 2024 at 11:51 #947802
Quoting javi2541997
It is true that Knausgård wants to get into the deepest point of sadness and loneliness, but it is something I am looking for right now


Lemme know what you think when you're done please!
javi2541997 November 16, 2024 at 12:29 #947806
Quoting Jafar
I wish! I have to make do with English


I wish it too! I read Greek authors in Spanish. My school taught Greek, but I decided to study geography instead. One of my biggest mistakes in my teenage era.

Quoting fdrake
Lemme know what you think when you're done please!


Righto, mate! :smile:
Jafar November 16, 2024 at 12:38 #947808
Reply to javi2541997 Hahaha, my school never even offered Greek nor Latin. It was too new and too understaffed. I'm pretty sure even then I wouldn't have picked it though.

I read the Republic in German, and sometimes I wonder how German translations of Greek texts compare to the English ones. How is it in Spanish?
fdrake November 16, 2024 at 12:38 #947809
I've been on a Cybernetic Culture Research Institute kick the last few months. I read:

Nihil Unbound by Ray Brassier through fully for the first time.
I went back to his dissertation Alien Theory. I didn't finish it because it would require a lot of further study for me to understand. Though I was surprised by how Brassier writes in it! He's usually very sardonic, and when he attacks a position you feel as though that position has been put firmly in its place, in this one there's a sense of catharsis in his critique. The dissertation just bulges with utter frustration at the navel gazing hermeneutic meta-game of continental philosophy and social science at the time.

Currently going through - I stress going through, not reading - Nick Land's Thirst For Annihilation, it's quite a book. The prose has a prophetic and thoroughly debased quality to it, though its coke fuelled rambling is marked by great self awareness:

Thirst for Annihilation:What I offer is a web of half-choked ravings that vaunts its incompetence, exploiting the meticulous conceptual fabrications of positive knowledge as a resource for delirium, appealing only to the indolent, the maladapted, and the psychologically diseased. I would like to think that if due to some collective spiritual seism the natural sciences were to become strictly unintelligible to us, and were read instead as a poetics of the sacred, the consequence would resonate with the text that follows. At least disorder grows.


and often there are fecund critical insights:

Thirst for Annihilation:Kant’s great discovery—but one that he never admitted to—was that apodictic reason is incompatible with knowledge. Such reason must be ‘transcendental’. This is a word that has been propagated with enthusiasm, but only because Kant simultaneously provided a method of misreading it. To be transcendental is to be ‘free’ of reality. This is surely the most elegant euphemism in the history of Western philosophy.

The critical philosophy exposes the ‘truths of reason’ as fictions, but cunning ones, for they can never be exposed. They are ‘big lies’ to the scale of infinity; stories about an irreal world beyond all possibility of sensation, one which is absolutely incapable of entering into material communication with the human nervous system, however indirectly, a separated realm, a divine kingdom. This is the ghost landscape of metaphysics, crowded with divinities, souls, agents, perdurant subjectivities, entities with a zero potentiality for triggering excitations, and then the whole gothic confessional of guilt, responsibility, moral judgement, punishments and rewards...the sprawling priestly apparatus of psychological manipulation and subterranean power. The only problem for the metaphysicians is that this web of gloomy fictions is unco-ordinated, and comes into conflict with itself. Once the fervent irrationalism of inquisition and the stake begins to crumble, and the dogmatic authority of the church weakens to the point that it can no longer wholly constrain philosophy within the mould of theology, violent disputes— antinomies—begin to flourish. Due to the ‘internecine strife of the metaphysicians’ polyglot forces begin to be sucked into conflict, at first mobilized against particular systems of reason, fighting under the banner of another. But eventually a more generalized antagonism begins to emerge, various elements begin to throw off the authority of metaphysics as such, scepticism spreads, and the nomads begin to drift back, with renewed élan.


the style of argument in it isn't what you would expect though. There are no syllogisms. There are no premises. There are scarcely conclusions. Where there is is a sustained and thorough attempt to get you to imagine everything around you differently. The book operates at the level of ideology without being propaganda, a surgery upon worldviews. It wrestles with intuitions that would make anyone imagine the world and its history of ideas in any way at all. All in the style of a candyflipper asking you to hold his snuffbox before running at a wall.
javi2541997 November 16, 2024 at 12:59 #947810
Quoting Jafar
How is it in Spanish?


I think it is pretty good, actually. The books I have are edited and translated directly from Greek. There are some notes by the responsible of the edition. They are nice to study. At least, these were that my teacher of philosophy recommended me in school, and I never found a better edition in Spanish.

Quoting Jafar
I read the Republic in German


Wow, if you are able to read complex books in German, then you sure could read original texts of Nietzsche or Kant!

[tweet]https://x.com/koninklijkhuis/status/1856002888599740644?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1856002888599740644%7Ctwgr%5E08562587893c110daa9329fc57616bdc4216d980%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.libertaddigital.com%2Fchic%2Fcorazon%2F2024-11-11%2Fel-regalo-de-agradecimiento-a-la-ciudad-de-madrid-de-la-princesa-amalia-de-paises-bajos-7185307%2F[/tweet]
I like sushi November 16, 2024 at 13:01 #947811
Reply to Jafar The Memory Code is by Lynne Kelly too btw if you did not realise that.

Funnily enough, if you are reading the Iliad you can probably see how it was originally a story passed down via oral tradition. If you get that presocratic book I mentioned you will also notice how many of the presocratics shifted form more oral traditions based on mythology to more modern conceptions of philosophical discourse (Thales), and others not mentioned in the book extensively such as Pherecydes, Xenophanes and Hermotimus.
Jafar November 16, 2024 at 13:55 #947820
Reply to javi2541997 German's my second language so while I understand what's being said I still lack the intimacy with words that natives have. I try to not let it stop me though. Nietzsche is a joy to read, Kant is still pretty tough!
Jafar November 16, 2024 at 13:58 #947821
Reply to I like sushi I realized! I get the impression her Memory craft is a bit more practically-minded while the Memory Code is more historical-anthropological.

I'll be getting the book on the pre-socratics. It looks like a lot of fun and it will be good to read with Homer.

(Also could someone show me how to quote?)
T Clark November 16, 2024 at 16:17 #947847
Quoting fdrake
I've been on a Cybernetic Culture Research Institute kick the last few months.


I had never heard of the Institute, so I looked it up. I also downloaded "Alien Theory." I can't imagine I'll read it all, but I at least wanted to check it out, not so much out of specific interest, but more because I wanted to see what a mild-mannered statistician saw in such a [s]goofy[/s] unusual subject.
fdrake November 16, 2024 at 19:00 #947867
Quoting T Clark
but more because I wanted to see what a mild-mannered statistician saw in such a goofy unusual subject.


Projects like that give you entire other ways of imagining everything. There isn't too much evidence for how we see the world at a base level, so it's nice to be able to view it from a remarkably alien perspective.

But at some point works like that became closer to how I see the world, in terms of worldview and metaphysics, than the everyday pretheoretical intuitions I live in. If whenever I open my mouth fairytales fall out, I may as well learn as many as possible.
T Clark November 16, 2024 at 20:37 #947878
Quoting fdrake
But at some point works like that became closer to how I see the world, in terms of worldview and metaphysics, than the everyday pretheoretical intuitions I live in. If whenever I open my mouth fairytales fall out, I may as well learn as many as possible.


As I noted, if something this unusual catches your attention, I'm interested to see what it has to say.
Pantagruel November 17, 2024 at 12:16 #947980
The Soul of Man Under Socialism
by Oscar Wilde
Pantagruel November 20, 2024 at 18:20 #949000
The Revolt of the Masses
by José Ortega y Gasset
Pantagruel November 25, 2024 at 18:23 #950024
The Way Things Are (De Rerum Natura)
by Lucretius,
Count Timothy von Icarus November 25, 2024 at 20:11 #950042
"On A Knife's Edge: The Ukraine November 1942 to March 1943" — bit of a change for me because normally if I read hyper detailed military history doorstoppers it's about WWI (aside from all the insurgency Cold War/GWOT stuff I read back when I worked on that sort of stuff). Instead of focusing on the Stalingrad pocket and the stranded Sixth Army, as many books do, it focuses on the broader and more important context of Uranus and the counter push by Winter Storm to re-establish contact with the Sixth (which came closer to working then might often be realized and, if not helping to win the war for the Germans, success might at least have extended it significantly—thankfully Hitler was a terrible military strategist and had stuck his hands in by this point). It also gets into the preparations for Operation Mars, where the Wermacht got the upper hand. And, not to give to much credit to the morally bankrupt Wermacht, but it is somewhat astounding the degree to which to cut off and woefully under supplied forces were at least initially able to keep inflicting heavy attritional losses on the Soviet enveloping formations.

It does a good job mixing high level details about planning at Stavka and with Stalin and planning at OKW and Hitler's involvement in the decision to forestall a breakout from Stalingrad when it was still likely achievable (although perhaps with dire losses).But, like all detailed histories, it uses divisional journals and orders and personal journals extensively and focuses a lot on the orders of battle, logistics, and individual movements/engagements (including the Soviet's firefight with other Soviet formations when the pincers of Uranus met).

The most astounding thing is how 1940s Russia, reeling from a massive invasion and relying on uneducated peasants and what were essentially often slave soldiers, and using horses and camels for supply lines, could carry out elaborate corps and field army level maneuvers, whereas now you barely see coordination above the level of the BCT. To be sure, drones and satellite imagery have made force concentration harder, but the Kursk offensive (2024) shows it is far from impossible.

Also dipped into the later parts of Herman's "The Cave and the Light," a survey of Western intellectual history through the lens of Plato and Aristotle. Actually seems quite good as far as surveys go.

Count Timothy von Icarus November 25, 2024 at 20:25 #950046
The book also covers the use of "anti-tank dogs," which seems emblematic of how Stalin's leadership tickled down in the war. Lacking material to make radio detonators, the Soviets simply trained dogs to run at tanks and lit fuses on their explosives before releasing them. But of course in the chaos of actual fighting the dogs became confused and ran back to their own lines and handlers, then exploding. So, you have the mix of useless cruelty that appalled even hardened Soviet infantrymen, with actions that actually hurt the war effort, combined with the decisions to "keep doing it anyway," which is sort of a metaphor for how Stalin's entire military often worked.

Given that Russian conscripts own term for their leaderships tactics in Ukraine today is "meat offensives," it seems that this has not totally improved.
javi2541997 November 26, 2024 at 19:45 #950180
@fdrake

I finished the book (My Struggle 1). Reply to fdrake

It is complicated to do a review in such a deep book. I think it has a lot of crucial parts, but Knausgård focuses on one point: loneliness. I have been jotting down the parts where he felt that way -- 15 years old; 30 years old; and when he is currently writing the book, around 40 years old or so.

There are different stages where Knausgård feels lonely. The relationship with his father, rather than being bad, I would say it is incomprehensible. It hit me when he says in the book: I was reciting a performance at school. I was nervous, so the storyline didn't go well. When we were in the car, my father said that he has never felt that embarrassed, and he will not show up to another performance. He kept the promise.

The attitude of Knausgård's father was exactly that. He never was there, and I think it caused an emotional trauma to this writer. He admitted in some paragraphs of the book that it took him ten years to write a book of his father, because there are some questions that remain unanswered. I believe this book was a self-guide to answer those questions. Precisely, I think the death of alcoholism was not the issue here, but the fact that his father will no longer be physically around anymore. Maybe he had the faith to build a paternal relationship, and this is very sad.
On the other hand -- it is interesting to see how he embraces loneliness when he became an adult. There is another page that says -- I disliked living in my childhood residential neighbourhood of Norway. I gaze at this Swedish suburb with a lot of buildings with unknown people, and I feel fine.

Well, I never read something like this. I think the way he approaches solitude is unique and original. There are five more numbers. I don't know if I would read them all, but the first volume gave me the impression that he also wants to focus on his brother, Yngve. The last pages of the book show a similar sense of loneliness in his brotherly relationship when they attended Bergen University, but he was not as deep as with the father.

Pantagruel November 28, 2024 at 11:45 #950515
History as a System and other Essays Toward a Philosophy of History
by José Ortega y Gasset

fdrake November 28, 2024 at 11:51 #950516
Quoting javi2541997
Well, I never read something like this. I think the way he approaches solitude is unique and original.


Maybe in print. This was what turned me off the book though. He wrote in a narrative voice like every Norwegian man with social difficulties I'd met. This perpetual fleeing from the prickliness of the world into an unfulfilled solitude that he convinces himself he's fine with.

Something I'll remember from it though is that his schooling in the 1950s was similar to mine in the 1990s, and it's still quite similar to kids now in 2020s I think. 70 years, slow progress on not emotionally devastating people from birth.
Jafar November 28, 2024 at 12:46 #950529
Die Götter Griechenlands (The Gods of Greece), by Walter F. Otto. Finished the Iliad and really into Greek mythology at the moment.
Burcu November 28, 2024 at 12:52 #950531
Hello, this is my first post in here and i am so thrilled to be here :)
I am currently reading Intermezzo from Sally Rooney. It is a novel but the way she writes is full of everything. This is the third novel of her that i read. She writes without quotation marks, without dividing conversations but you can still follow and realize who is the one talking to who.
And most importantly the thing i love about her writing is she is writing with all the parts that live in our mind as id, ego, superego, shadows and so on and she makes this without any effort. She generally focuses on relationships between a man and a woman or with two friends or two brothers so you can easily find yourself or someone you know in her lines.

If anyone is out there who has same taste with me i will be glad to know :)
Have a gerat moment :)

Jamal November 28, 2024 at 13:19 #950533
Reply to Burcu

Welcome to TPF :grin:
javi2541997 November 28, 2024 at 13:21 #950534
Hello, Reply to Burcu welcome to TPF.

Quoting Burcu
And most importantly the thing i love about her writing is she is writing with all the parts that live in our mind


Quoting Burcu
She writes without quotation marks, without dividing conversations but you can still follow and realize who is the one talking to who


Quoting Burcu
If anyone is out there who has same taste with me i will be glad to know


Well, according to that writing style, I also like some authors whose novels are similar to the one you are currently reading. But only in regard to the style, not the topic.

For example -- Jon Fosse and José Saramago always wrote in that way. Without dividing conversations and the format is written all in a row. Fosse doesn't even use chapters. I think Saramago either.
fdrake November 28, 2024 at 14:36 #950544
Quoting Burcu
If anyone is out there who has same taste with me i will be glad to know :)


I've seen Intermezzo recommended in three separate places I frequent now, I should really get to it.
Burcu November 28, 2024 at 14:40 #950545
Reply to javi2541997 Thanks for your kind reply :)
Yes many authors write like that but the most fascinating thing is she is not eliminating any desicion of the character, she gives all the thoughts at a moment and you feel like you are living in that characters brain. And also between occasions she put some general information about the situation that i can name as a kind of philosofie.

Also i recommend her first novel to the ones who like this style, Normal People which had awards and turned into a tv show also. That novel for me deeply show the Jung’s basic archetypes Anima and Animus.

Hope it didnt tuned our to be commercial i really get thrilled as i mentioned :)
Burcu November 28, 2024 at 14:43 #950546
Reply to fdrake hello, if you do choose that books i would like to hear your review :)
Burcu November 28, 2024 at 14:44 #950547
Reply to Jamal thank youu ??
javi2541997 November 28, 2024 at 15:48 #950557
Quoting Burcu
she gives all the thoughts at a moment and you feel like you are living in that characters brain.


Yes, it is fascinating. It reminds me of Melancholia by Fosse. The main character is Lars Hertervig. A Norwegian painter who suffered from a mental illness. Fosse gives all the thoughts and the anxiety of Lars at the same time that he relates to the outside world. A complex writing style that only a few are able to do. Well, Fosse is a Nobel laureate -- as well as Pamuk. I just checked your profile info, and you are Turkish! :smile:

Quoting Burcu
Hope it didnt tuned our to be commercial i really get thrilled as i mentioned


It is fine! We are often very emotional with some authors and novels. I remember being very obsessed with Mishima and Japanese literature a few years ago. We want to share this feeling with others, and this is gorgeous. :up:
Burcu November 28, 2024 at 16:05 #950561
Reply to javi2541997 thank you tihs was the aim for mw to be here, i mean i hope to interact with the ones around the world and feel to be heard. It is so kind of you to check my profile and mention a writer from my nation :)
I did not read any Mishima but i have his books.
By the way i am at a bookshop right now and while i was waiting for my coffee i turned my back and there was the book, Intermezzo again at the desk :) I do not believe in coinsidences though everything is happening as you believe and focus on so... And i smiled at that book and it smiled at me too i guess :))))
javi2541997 November 29, 2024 at 14:37 #950716
The Seducer's Diary. by Kierkegaard.

Firstly, I think it is notoriously to say that Kierkegaard's works are difficult to translate into our languages. I spent more than half an hour finding out on the Internet the proper translation of Forførerens Dagbog in English. My edition is in Spanish, which was translated from Danish in 2008. So, I think it is an accurate edition.

On the other hand, is there a Danish mate here in TPF? If so, please explain why the Danish language used by Kierkegaard is that complex to translate.

Edit: Thirdly, the book is a collection of fragments from a personal diary, where Kierkegaard shows his anxious love towards Regina Olsen. :heart:
fdrake December 01, 2024 at 21:50 #951133
@Hanover - I think this is a radical feminism you can get behind.

[quote=VNS, A Cyberfeminist Manifesto For The 21st Century;https://vnsmatrix.net/projects/the-cyberfeminist-manifesto-for-the-21st-century]
we are the modern cunt
positive anti reason
unbounded unleashed unforgiving
we see art with our cunt we make art with our cunt
we believe in jouissance madness holiness and poetry
we are the virus of the new world disorder
rupturing the symbolic from within
saboteurs of big daddy mainframe
the clitoris is a direct line to the matrix
VNS MATRIX
terminators of the moral code
mercenaries of slime
go down on the altar of abjection
probing the visceral temple we speak in tongues
infiltrating disrupting disseminating
corrupting the discourse
we are the future cunt[/quote]
Hanover December 02, 2024 at 00:02 #951165
Reply to fdrake I actually do like that it's real and unapologetic, the feeling that it's immutably forged from some formative personal experience and societal rejection that doesnt lend itself to debate. You either embrace wholeheartedly their manifesto, or they have you fuck off. I can trust they believe what they say, which is more than you get from most.

There's something Cool Hand Luke about it you've got to respect.

But since I'm not an accepted member of that tribe (alas, being cuntless), I can only observe their artistic expression from afar. I couldn't actually interact with those gentle souls because I'd be likely be struck by the grenades their military wing would toss at me.

fdrake December 02, 2024 at 00:20 #951169
Quoting Hanover
But since I'm not an accepted member of that tribe (alas, being cuntless), I can only observe their artistic expression from afar. I couldn't actually interact with those gentle souls because I'd be likely be struck by the grenades their military wing would toss at me.


I am under the impression that the modern cunt doesn't need to have a cunt, so perhaps you can still be a cunt in the future cunt.
T Clark December 02, 2024 at 00:54 #951177
Quoting fdrake
I think this is a radical feminism you can get behind.


It reminds me of some of Robert Frost‘s later poems.
Pantagruel December 04, 2024 at 12:31 #951604
John Carter and the Giants of Mars; The Skeleton Men of Jupiter
by Edgar Rice Burroughs
Pantagruel December 05, 2024 at 11:32 #951838
Man and Crisis
by José Ortega y Gasset
Janus December 06, 2024 at 05:14 #952033
Reply to fdrake A cunt of a poem! I love it!
Pantagruel December 08, 2024 at 11:21 #952396
The Three Musketeers
by Alexandre Dumas
javi2541997 December 08, 2024 at 19:34 #952471
Laughable Loves by Milan Kundera.

A collection of seven short stories. Cleverly written, as most of Kundera's works. An interesting fact that I did notice about their characters -- when he wrote in Czech, he used Czech names such as Ruzena, Havel, Klíma or Škréta. But, when he wrote in Frech, he used typical French names like Agnes or Paul.
praxis December 08, 2024 at 19:52 #952475
The Origins of Political Order: From Prehuman Times to the French Revolution by Francis Fukuyama

Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad

The City and Its Uncertain Walls by Haruki Murakami
T Clark December 10, 2024 at 18:23 #952846
Quoting praxis
Heart of Darkness


This is my favorite book. I’ve given it to all my children. Actually, I’ve given it to all my children more than once. My memory is not all that great.
Jamal December 10, 2024 at 18:53 #952849
The Weird: A Compendium of Strange and Dark Stories edited by the Vandermeers. So far I've read the Algernon Blackwood ("The Willows") and the Julio Cortázar ("Axolotl"), both outstanding. It also includes Saki, M.R. James, Tagore, Kafka, Lovecraft, Borges, Peake, Buzzati, Murakami, Octavia Butler, and loads of others.

About half way through Herodotus, which in its own way is also a compendium of strange and dark stories.
Count Timothy von Icarus December 10, 2024 at 19:09 #952854
Reply to praxis

The Origins of Political Order: From Prehuman Times to the French Revolution by Francis Fukuyama


This is a really great work, both volumes, not so much because of Fukuyama's individual contributions, but because it's fairly encyclopedic and is good at synthesizing views on state development.
praxis December 10, 2024 at 22:49 #952878
Reply to T Clark

I think I would have expected your favorite to be less dark.

I'm listening to the audiobook and the richness of it is made a little richer with Kenneth Branagh reading.

Reply to Count Timothy von Icarus :up:
T Clark December 11, 2024 at 03:10 #952924
Quoting praxis
I think I would have expected your favorite to be less dark.


I know what you mean by "dark," but I don't really see it that way. For me, Marlow is a decent man who maintains his moral center while other British in Africa fall into brutal corruption. It's a story of his integrity in the face of European avarice and ruthlessness.
Pantagruel December 15, 2024 at 12:54 #953658
The Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844
by Karl Marx, Fredrick Engels
T Clark December 16, 2024 at 18:07 #953928
"Feeling and Knowing - Making Minds Conscious" by Antonio Damasio.

I've previously written about an earlier book by Damasio - "The Feeling of What Happens."

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/724418

Damasio is a cognitive scientist who has written extensively about mental processes. The earlier book, published in 1999, did include a discussion of consciousness, but in a broad context of how the mind works with a heavy emphasis on anatomy and physiology. The newer book, published in 2021, focuses on feeling and consciousness from a process and functional perspective. In it, Damasio describes the mental processes that combine to make us conscious as well as the functions that consciousness carries out in the overall process of maintaining the internal equilibrium of human and other organisms.

Damasio clearly intends the discussion to address issues related to the "hard problem" of consciousness from the "what's the big deal" point of view. I'm sure it won't be convincing to those find the idea of the hard problem compelling.

Definitely a short book for the price, but it helped me start to put words to how I have always seen this issue.
Count Timothy von Icarus December 17, 2024 at 21:18 #954191
"Philosophy as therapy," has always interested me. There is this neat New Yorker article on it. It would be interesting to me if anyone had ever tried to set up a retreat with this in mind.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-inquiry/when-philosophers-become-therapists

But then I've been reading about Patristic philosophy, particularly from Syria and Egypt, because this is probably one of the key eras where philosophy is practiced as a sort of therapy on a large scale.

User image

The Philokalia is another great example here, although obviously not focused on the laity.
javi2541997 December 19, 2024 at 05:54 #954535
Bullet Park by John Cheever.

It is nice to read about the link between the neighbours of an American suburb. Cheever was a master of describing the mysterious and dubious normality of these people.

I guess it is important to say that Cheever himself was from Massachusetts; so is Clarky ( @T Clark ). Two great human souls who belong to the same place of the Western civilisation. :smile:
T Clark December 19, 2024 at 16:11 #954619
Quoting javi2541997
I guess it is important to say that Cheever himself was from Massachusetts; so is Clarky ( T Clark ). Two great human souls who belong to the same place of the Western civilisation


Paine December 19, 2024 at 22:05 #954691
Anabasis of Alexander the Great by Arrian.

Arrian's style of critical admiration with concise recounting of events is awesome.
Pantagruel December 26, 2024 at 14:41 #955722
Finished my last book of 2024, thus my year in review.
To my surprise and pleasure, the tales of Robert Louis Stevenson proved to be some of the most finely crafted literature I've yet encountered. I was also inspired by both the fiction and non-fiction of H.G. Wells, profound and prophetic.

FICTION
A Harlot High and Low by Honore de Balzac
Thuvia Maid of Mars (Barsoom #4) by Edgar Rice Burroughs
The Chessmen of Mars (Barsoom #5) by Edgar Rice Burroughs
The Master Mind of Mars (Barsoom #6) by Edgar Rice Burroughs
A Fighting Man of Mars (Barsoom #7) by Edgar Rice Burroughs
Swords of Mars (Barsoom #8) by Edgar Rice Burroughs
The Mucker (Mucker #1) by Edgar Rice Burroughs
Synthetic Men of Mars (Barsoom #9) by Edgar Rice Burroughs
Llana of Gathol (Barsoom #10) by Edgar Rice Burroughs
John Carter & the Giants of Mars and Skeleton Men of Jupiter by Edgar Rice Burroughs
A Journal of the Plague Year by Daniel Defoe
Martin Chuzzlewit by Charles Dickens
Little Dorrit by Charles Dickens
The Three Musketeers by Alexandre Dumas
The Woodlanders by Thomas Hardy
The Return of the Native by Thomas Hardy
The Arabian Nights by Daniel Heller-Roazen
Gray Lensman (Lensman #4) by E.E. Doc Smith
Second Stage Lensmen (Lensmen #5) by E.E. Doc Smith
Children of the Lens (Lensman #6) by E.E. Doc Smith
Humphry Clinker: An Authoritative Text Contemporary Responses Criticism by Tobias Smollett
The Merry Men and Other Tales and Fables by Robert Louis Stevenson
New Arabian Nights by Robert Louis Stevenson
Tales and Fantasies by Robert Louis Stevenson
The Sleeper Awakes (Penguin Classics) by H.G. Wells
In the Days of the Comet by H.G. Wells

NON-FICTION
Introduction to Biosemiotics: The New Biological Synthesis by Marcello Barbieri
Civilization and Capitalism 15th-18th Century Vol. 1: The Structures of Everyday Life by Fernand Braudel
Scientific Realism: Selected Essays of Mario Bunge by Mario Bunge
Speculum Mentis by R.G. Collingwood
How We Think by John Dewey
The Influence of Darwin on Philosophy and Other Essays by John Dewey
Hermeneutics and the Study of History (Selected Works Vol 4) by Wilhelm Dilthey
Moral Education by Emile Durkheim
The Rules of Sociological Method: And Selected Texts on Sociology and its Method by Emile Durkheim
Outlines of Scepticism by Sextus Empiricus
The Revolt of the Masses by Jose Ortega y Gasset
History as a System and other Essays Toward a Philosophy of History by Jose Ortega y Gasset
Man and Crisis by Jose Ortega y Gasset
New Ways of Ontology by Nicolai Hartmann
Dialectic of Enlightenment: Philosophical Fragments by Max Horkheimer
The Grammar of Systems: From Order to Chaos & Back by Patrick Hoverstadt
The Way Things Are by Lucretius
Economic & Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844 by Karl Marx
Collingwood and the Crisis of Western Civilisation: Art Metaphysics and Dialectic by Richard Murphy
Philosophical Writings of Peirce by Charles Sanders Peirce
Collingwood and the reform of metaphysics: A study in the philosophy of mind by Lionel Rubinoff
Unto this Last; The Political Economy of Art; Essays on Political Economy by John Ruskin
The Construction of Social Reality by John Rogers Searle
Making the Social World: The Structure of Human Civilization by John Rogers Searle
NOOGENESIS: Computational Biology by Alex M. Vikoulov
A Modern Utopia by H.G. Wells
New Worlds for Old: A Plain Account of Modern Socialism by H.G. Wells
Quantum Mind and Social Science: Unifying Physical and Social Ontology by Alexander Wendt
Process and Reality: An Essay in Cosmology by Alfred North Whitehead
The Soul of Man Under Socialism by Oscar Wilde
Pantagruel December 26, 2024 at 20:11 #955768
Kicking off 2025 with

One Hundred Years of Solitude
by Gabriel García Márquez

Also a History of Philosophy, Volume 1: The Project of a Genealogy of Postmetaphysical Thinking
by Jürgen Habermas

I'm very excited to read this first of a brand new 3 volume history of philosophy by Jurgen Habermas at age 94! Volume 2 just came into print; volume 3 out in a few months.

...the history of Western philosophy as a genealogy of post metaphysical thinking....Habermas situates Western philosophy in relation to traditions of thought founded in the major worldviews (Judaism, Buddhism, Confucianism and Taoism). So says the flyleaf.

javi2541997 December 27, 2024 at 07:47 #955845
My 2024 reading recap. It was a fruitful year:

  • Crime and Punishment, Dostoevsky.
  • The Disoriented, Amin Maalouf.
  • Life Is Elsewhere, Milan Kundera.
  • Melancholia, Jon Fosse.
  • The haw lantern, Seamus Heaney.
  • All the Names, José Saramago.
  • Art, Yasmina Reza.
  • The Tunnel, Ernesto Sábato.
  • A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, James Joyce.
  • Humiliated and Insulted, Dostoevsky.
  • The Fratricides, Nikos Kazantzakis.
  • The Wisdom of Insecurity: A Message for an Age of Anxiety. by Alan Watts.
  • The Unbearable Lightness of Being by Milan Kundera.
  • First Person Singular, by Haruki Murakami.
  • Four Walls by Vanghélis Hadziyannidis.
  • White Nights; Netochka Nezvanova, Dostoevsky.
  • Symposium, Nikos Kazantzakis.
  • Vacaciones en el Cáucaso, María Iordanidu.
  • The Book of Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi.
  • Hidden by the Leaves by Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
  • Angelos Sikelianos. Selected Poems.
  • The City and Its Uncertain Walls, Haruki Murakami.
  • Lucerne and Albert, Leo Tolstoy.
  • Ward No. 6; The Prank, Anton Chekhov.
  • Notes from Underground, Dostoevsky.
  • Immortality, Milan Kundera.
  • A History of Eternity; Fictions, Borges.
  • Red Cavalry, Isaac Babel.
  • The Dream of Heroes; The Invention of Morel, Adolfo Bioy Casares.
  • The Elephant's Journey, José Saramago.
  • The Farewell Waltz, Milan Kundera.
  • The Other Name: Septology I, Jon Fosse.
  • Afterlives, Abdulrazak Gurnah.
  • A Death in the Family. My Struggle 1, Karl Ove Knausgård.
  • The Seducer's Diary, Kierkegaard.
  • Laughable Loves, Milan Kundera.
  • Bullet Park, John Cheever.
T Clark December 27, 2024 at 16:05 #955893
Reply to javi2541997
Impressive. The only one on your list I've read is "The Wisdom of Insecurity." It's probably my favorite book by Alan Watts. It's one of his earliest and I have imagined it represents an early stage in his path from western toward eastern philosophy.
Hanover December 27, 2024 at 18:40 #955923
Reply to javi2541997 That is a total of 11,720 pages, which would be 32.1 pages per day if all read in one year.

I dumped that into ChatGPT and asked it. I didn't actually look each one up individually. Had I manually looked up each book for the number of pages and then did the math myself, GPT says it would have taken me about 1 hour and 20 minutes.
Hanover December 27, 2024 at 18:44 #955925
Quoting T Clark
The only one on your list I've read is "The Wisdom of Insecurity."


To complete that book in a year, you would need to read 0.44 pages per day. No way you read that fast.
javi2541997 December 27, 2024 at 18:49 #955926
Reply to T Clark Thanks! I am glad you also have read Alan Watts. I have some other books of him on my shelf that I didn't read yet. I also want to keep reading Russian authors. Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, and Gogol are in my 2025 list.

Quoting Hanover
That is a total of 11,720 pages, which would be 32.1 pages per day if all read in one year.


Interesting! Yes, I tend to read 25-30 pages per day, with the only exception of Russian authors. I need to read their stories very carefully. Their prose is very deep and long.
T Clark December 27, 2024 at 19:43 #955935
Quoting Hanover
To complete that book in a year, you would need to read 0.44 pages per day. No way you read that fast.


I did not indicate how long it took me to read the book.
Hanover December 27, 2024 at 19:51 #955937
Quoting T Clark
I did not indicate how long it took me to read the book.


Neither did I. I provided the outcome of a hypothetical situation and then I commented on your ability to perform in that hypothetical situation, which would have been poorly.

Laughably poorly. As in, ha ha, Clarky can't even read 1/2 a page daily.
Janus December 27, 2024 at 20:45 #955950
I'm always too busy reading (and writing) to bother spending time telling you exactly what I've been reading. other than to say fiction wise I've read several of Cormac McCarthy and Murakami Haruki and a little Albert Camus and a good deal of poetry and some philosophy.
T Clark December 27, 2024 at 21:43 #955971
Quoting Hanover
Laughably poorly. As in, ha ha, Clarky can't even read 1/2 a page daily.


Yes, hypothetically I acknowledge I am a very poor reader.

Or alternatively - I hypothetically acknowledge I am a very poor reader.

Or maybe - I acknowledge I am hypothetically a very poor reader.
Maw December 28, 2024 at 00:53 #956011
On the Theory and History of Ideological Production: Juan Carlos Rodríguez and His Contemporaries by Malcolm K. Read

My reading list for 2024:

  • The Early Chinese Empires: Qin and Han by Mark Edward Lewis
  • Theory as History: Essays on Modes of Production and Exploitation by Jairus Banaji
  • A History of China by John Keay
  • A History of Japan by R.H.P Mason and J.G Caiger
  • India: A History by John Keay
  • Revolutionary Jews From Spinoza to Marx: The Fight for A Secular World of Universal and Equal Rights by Jonathan Israel
  • The Horde: How the Mongols Changed the World by Marie Favereau
  • Deconstructing Postmodernist Nietzscheanism: Deleuze and Foucault by Jan Rehmann
  • The Book of Chuang Tzu
  • Destiny Disrupted: A History of the World Through Islamic Eyes by Tamim Ansary
  • The Castle by Franz Kafka
  • Herscht 07769 by László Krasznahorkai
  • What Was Neoliberalism: Studies in the Most Recent Phase of Capitalism 1973-2008 by Neil Davidson
  • Rethinking Marxist Approaches to Transition: A Theory of Temporal Dislocation by Onur Acaroglu
  • Market and Violence: The Functioning of Capitalism in History by Heide Gerstenberger


Additionally, I've been reading One Thousand and One Nights each night since January 1st of 2024, so at the time of writing I am on Night 361

kazan December 28, 2024 at 06:02 #956056
"The Storm before the Storm. The Beginning of the End of the Roman Republic" by Mike Duncan

Quoting B Franklin's remark that the (US) Constitutional Convention had produced"...a Republic... if you can keep it..", the author indicates a/the relevance of this historical study to current times.

Easy read with sufficient references from contemporary sources not to burden the general reader.
kazan December 28, 2024 at 06:41 #956058
@javi2541997,

Mikhail Sholokhov is an early Soviet Russian writer with reasonably balanced (politically for the times) story lines and some intellectual depth that might interest you if you're interested in early Soviet Russian literature. "Quiet flows the Don" is often quoted as his best, but that is arguable. He wrote several Russian Civil War novels with noticeable undertones/influences of the late Imperial greats.

Working with 55-60 year old memories, so treat above with care. Was into Russian literature around 12 to 16 years old. 1960s, shows tolerant ( or ignorant ) parents. Lucky!

encouraging smile
javi2541997 December 28, 2024 at 07:12 #956060
Reply to kazan Hello Kazan,

I know about Sholokhov, but I haven't read anything from him yet. My parents have a special edition of 'Russian Masters,' and Sholokhov's 'The Don' is included in the collection. If I am not mistaken, he was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature, but the Soviet Union forced him to decline the prize.

I am interested in Russian literature in general, but now I want to be focused on classical Russian writers, when Russia was under the Tsar dynasty.
kazan December 28, 2024 at 07:34 #956065
@javi2541997,

"... but now I want to focused....... under the Tsar dynasty."

That will keep you busy for sometime.

Recently read a very Modern Russian short stories compilation. Some good, some not. The eternal question "What makes good reading?"

cheery smile
Jamal December 29, 2024 at 07:28 #956317
The Wanting Seed by Anthony Burgess.

A brilliant and fascinating dystopian science fiction novel, written in the same year he wrote A Clockwork Orange. The author’s homophobia, which he expects the reader to share, makes it difficult to endorse the book, but somehow Burgess’s contradictions and prejudices only make him more interesting. Not to let him off the hook, but it’s worth pointing out that while The Wanting Seed appears banally homophobic, and in an interview in the 80s he talked about the “gay mafia,” his epic Earthly Powers, with its gay main character, has been called the greatest gay novel of the twentieth century.

User image
Janus December 29, 2024 at 08:49 #956322
Reply to T Clark How about highly pathetically a very poor reader?
T Clark December 29, 2024 at 16:10 #956367
Quoting Janus
How about highly pathetically a very poor reader?


User image
javi2541997 January 01, 2025 at 08:15 #957293
The Kreutzer Sonata, Leo Tolstoy.

Russian literature to start 2025 with! It is a novella about—mainly, amongst other topics—sexual abstinence. It was censored by the authorities when it was published the first time.
Count Timothy von Icarus January 02, 2025 at 18:28 #957689
Reply to kazan

"The Storm before the Storm. The Beginning of the End of the Roman Republic" by Mike Duncan


I have this sitting on my bookshelf because I really like his podcasts. I haven't read it yet though because I am pretty well versed in the period, but it would be nice to stroll down memory lane again at some point. I often contend to those afraid of President Trump making himself a dictator that he is, at best, a Sulla, but probably more a Gracchi. He isn't competent enough to be a Caesar, let alone an Caesar Augustus. Maybe a Marc Antony lol.

His Revolutions podcast is coming back. He is going to be doing Cuba, Iran, etc. It's a shame he is dodging the Chinese Civil War though; it'd only take him a few years to cover all 50 years of it after all...
T Clark January 02, 2025 at 19:40 #957697
On Monday, my daughter and I finished reading and discussing "The Power Broker" by Robert Caro. We've been reading it 100 pages/month starting last January. It's the story of Robert Moses, the man primarily responsible for infrastructure construction in New York City, Long Island, and throughout New York State starting in the mid 1920s through the mid 1960s. He was amazing and brilliant man and a monomaniacal promoter of cars and highways at the expense of rapid transit. No one in history has had a bigger effect on the day to day life of New Yorkers. Great story, well told.

Now we have to find a new book for 2025. The criteria 1) We're both interested 2) We would never read it ourselves because of it's length 3) We'll get bragging rights and be able to pontificate for the rest of our lives. We're thinking about "Infinite Jest."
javi2541997 January 02, 2025 at 20:03 #957702
Quoting T Clark
On Monday, my daughter and I finished reading and discussing "The Power Broker" by Robert Caro. We've been reading it 100 pages/month starting last January


Wonderful. I imagine you had a great time reading and discussing a book with your daughter. She has to be very proud of you, so you of her, of course. It is important the culture that we receive by home.

Quoting T Clark
Now we have to find a new book for 2025. The criteria 1) We're both interested 2) We would never read it ourselves because of it's length 3) We'll get bragging rights and be able to pontificate for the rest of our lives. We're thinking about "Infinite Jest."


"Infinite Jest" is a good choice, indeed. A long book and seems interesting; holding a lot to discuss. I was about to recommend you "One Thousand and One Nights" because I imagine it might be interesting to read a tale each night and then choose your favourite at the end of the year, for example.
T Clark January 02, 2025 at 20:07 #957704
Quoting javi2541997
I was about to recommend you "One Thousand and One Nights" because I imagine it might be interesting to read a tale each night and then choose your favourite at the end of the year, for example.


We haven't decided finally yet. We may yet pick another book.
BC January 02, 2025 at 20:31 #957712
Reply to T Clark I was merrily reading The Power Broker until Moses started getting really nasty. Caro is a great biographer. You could start on his bio of Lyndon B. Johnson, if you think you'll live long enough.

A shorter book, The Public Burning by Robert Coover, (1976) an account of the events leading up to the execution of the Julius and Ethel Rosenberg in 1953, might be a nice change of pace. It's historical fiction -- most of the characters are historical; you might even consider The Phantom (communists) and Uncle Sam (jingoism cubed) real. The story is narrated by Richard M. Nixon, who spends quite a bit of time reflecting on his own virtues.

It's quite funny, despite the subject matter. For instance, in the prologue the execution is scheduled to take place in Times Square with a replica of the Sing Sing execution chamber on a stage. Times Square is decorated in red, white, and blue bunting, flags, etc. This is Uncle Sam's doing. Happily the plan is spoiled by The Phantom (presumably). Signage on the stage begins to be corrupted: "AMERICA THE HOPE OF THE WORLD" mysteriously changes into "AMERICA THE JOKE OF THE WORLD" and worse things. Eventually the whole stage collapses into the street in a big wind storm.

It was recommended in a NYT editorial a few days ago. It is weirdly relevant.

Tom Storm January 02, 2025 at 20:43 #957715
Quoting T Clark
Yes, hypothetically I acknowledge I am a very poor reader.


I’m a poor reader too. I had a period of 25 years where I read a great deal. These days I lack curiosity.

In December I did read Erotic Vagrancy: Everything About Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor by Roger Lewis, described as a epic poem about vulgarity and old school fame culture. I was fascinated by Burton for a while and read everything on him. Lewis' book is an unorthodox, shamelessly personal, highly literate and quite bitchy biographical account of the doomed couple. It's not the book he thinks he wrote. We know this because he keeps telling us about his intentions. He says he doesn't want to judge the dysfunctional duo, but he can't help evaluating choices, actions and behaviors. The book is fun but lacks coherence and is somewhat repetitive. Lewis leaves us with a familiar albeit vividly realized lesson: fame can fuck you up.

javi2541997 January 03, 2025 at 08:11 #957831
Quoting Tom Storm
These days I lack curiosity.


What is the cause of your lack of curiosity?
It might be that you have already read a lot of books in that 25-year span, and now it is complex to find out what can be interesting.

One advise -- I tend to schedule what I want to read depending on the origin of the author. A few years ago, I was deeply interested in Japanese literature, but now I am no longer thrilled. Therefore, I was looking for new stimulation since the end of 2023; reading Russian literature and trying Nordic and Eastern European authors as well. After that, it would be interesting to chew Australian writers, etc.

Who knows! Maybe you could end up having curiosity in Hispanic literature: Argentina (Borges, Sábato, Casares...) or Spain (Cervantes, Lorca, Cela...) :wink:
Tom Storm January 03, 2025 at 09:14 #957833
Quoting javi2541997
What is the cause of your lack of curiosity?


Probably just getting older I have less motivation to explore the world through books and am more interested in people.

Quoting javi2541997
Who knows! Maybe you could end up having curiosity in Hispanic literature


I read Lorca poetry in the 1980's (he was being rediscovered here) - my girlfriend was obsessed with him. Pretty sure we saw his play El maleficio de la mariposa. Wonderful rich stuff. I adored Cervantes - some of the story digressions in the Don are a bit much. The Lost Steps by Cuban writer Alejo Carpentier was really memorable. Not an easy book to find these days. Perhaps this is a gauche comment but Spanish appears to be the most euphonic and beautiful language for literature.


javi2541997 January 03, 2025 at 09:41 #957838
Quoting Tom Storm
Probably just getting older I have less motivation to explore the world through books and am more interested in people.


This is very interesting, because I feel otherwise. I want to explore the world through books rather than with people because I am scared of humanity in general. Perhaps my mentality will think in the future.

Quoting Tom Storm
Perhaps this is a gauche comment but Spanish appears to be the most euphonic and beautiful language for literature.


Honestly, I think the same. :lol:
Yet only a writer (Mario Vargas Llosa) won the Nobel Prize during the current century. I don't understand the lack of appreciation for Hispanic authors by the Swedish Academy.

T Clark January 03, 2025 at 16:59 #957910
Quoting BC
I was merrily reading The Power Broker until Moses started getting really nasty.


When we finally finished the book, my daughter and I agreed that we will never mention his name again. An amazing but despicable man. A genius. He could easily have been a Stalin or Hitler in a different circumstances.

Quoting BC
It was recommended in a NYT editorial a few days ago. It is weirdly relevant.


What you've written plus this from Kirkus Review's 1977 review, make me even more interested in taking a look at the book.

Quoting From Kirkus Review of The Public Burning
Coover skids between easy-target satire (Bruce, Sahl, et al. were there first) and melodramatic grandstanding, with no new insights worthy of his remarkable rhetorical talents. A provocative kernel lost in a dazzling, deadening morass: precisely the kind of book more likely to be talked about than read.
T Clark January 03, 2025 at 17:16 #957916
Reply to Tom Storm
The first time I became aware of Elizabeth Taylor was when, in 1963 I guess, I saw her up on a gigantic billboard in Times Square costumed as Cleopatra. That was before all the electronic imagery you see there now. I liked the old fashioned look better, especially the famous Camel cigarette billboard which used a smoke generator to make smoke come out of mouth of the man in the display, who changed over the years to keep up with the times.

User image


User image
Tom Storm January 03, 2025 at 21:36 #957994
Reply to T Clark Oh, to be in Times Square in 1963!
T Clark January 04, 2025 at 00:25 #958045
Quoting Tom Storm
Oh, to be in Times Square in 1963!


My mother grew up in New York City and we used to go there once a year to visit my grandfather. It was magic to me then and it’s magic to me now.
T Clark January 04, 2025 at 18:06 #958150
A year or so ago, I discussed "What is Life?: How Chemistry Becomes Biology," by Addy Pross here. I gave the book a generally good recommendation, but criticized it's pop-sciency tone. Here's an article by Pross and others that I liked much better. It's a journal article and much more focused and formal. And much shorter.

A lot of it was over my head, but a lot of it wasn't. Seems very plausible. Here's a link.

Towards an evolutionary theory of the origin of life based on kinetics and thermodynamics

kazan January 05, 2025 at 07:06 #958306
@Count Timothy von Icarus,

If you're up with late Roman Republican period, you won't learn new stuff reading "The Storm before..." Nothing too controversial, just a lean here and there. But, a few "that's like now" moments.
All backed up by references of writers within a century or so of the times. Honors Bachelor standard.

Agree. Sulla, no, not affecting enough long term uplift for "his" (Trump's) people.
Gracchii, maybe, smash a few assumptions/standards. Pave the way for a real "hero"? Who knows? If there is/ever was such in politics?

Cheery smile
javi2541997 January 05, 2025 at 17:45 #958383
Continuing with Russian literature:

The Eternal Husband, Dostoevsky.

I started on Monday a novel by Tolstoy about a drama based on jealousy. Now, I will continue with a complex relationship triangle between a widower, a former lover, and a deceased wife.

Who gives the most, folks? :wink:
Jamal January 06, 2025 at 09:15 #958535
Jane Eyre by Charlotte Brontë. So far: great.
Pantagruel January 08, 2025 at 12:09 #958986
Amerika
by Franz Kafka

One-hundred Years of Solitude was absolutely spellbinding.
Maw January 13, 2025 at 01:04 #960250
We Cannot Escape History: States and Revolutions by Neil Davidson
Jamal January 14, 2025 at 14:26 #960588
  • Tokyo Express by Seich? Matsumoto
  • Point Zero by Seich? Matsumoto
Hanover January 14, 2025 at 16:56 #960615
I'm reading "How the Bible Became Holy." As in how did it find itself as a book that dictates our social norms and moral beliefs.

Spoiler alert: It's not because God wrote it.
Pantagruel January 14, 2025 at 18:00 #960630
Myth and Meaning
by Claude Lévi-Strauss
javi2541997 January 15, 2025 at 06:38 #960751
Morning and Evening by Jon Fosse.

Fosse's talented narrative grasps our attention in this short but intense novella. The first four pages are about the birth of a child in a random coastal village, and then the same child becomes an elder remembering the old days fishing with his dad.

Melancholia, nostalgia, memories... all I love in literature.
T Clark January 15, 2025 at 16:00 #960812
Quoting javi2541997
Melancholia, nostalgia, memories... all I love in literature.


Do you read everything in Spanish or do you sometimes read in English?
javi2541997 January 15, 2025 at 17:26 #960832
Reply to T Clark I try to make an effort in reading books in both languages, although I mostly read in Spanish.

John Cheever is one of the authors that I only read in English. I don't think I've ever attempted to read one of his translated works. His novels are very well written and easy to follow for a non-native like me. I tend to buy his books from an Irish bookshop called "Kennys," but I remember purchasing one book from a random bookshop located in the USA. It took me about a month to receive it.
T Clark January 16, 2025 at 15:28 #961101
Reply to javi2541997
In whatever language you read, the breadth and depth of your interest, commitment, and understanding is impressive. You also read really fast.
Jamal January 16, 2025 at 15:37 #961102
Quoting Pantagruel
One-hundred Years of Solitude was absolutely spellbinding.


Agreed :up:
Pantagruel January 18, 2025 at 12:22 #961683
The Power Elite
by C. Wright Mills

Also by Habermas was daunting and incredibly dense. Best to be acquainted with Jaspers' theory of the axial age prior to tackling it. I'm going to wait a bit before tackling volume two (volume three won't be published until June anyway...).
Pantagruel January 20, 2025 at 12:00 #962268
Diary of a Madman and Other Stories
by Nikolai Gogol
AmadeusD January 20, 2025 at 19:42 #962361
Nichomachean Ethics.

Anyone got pointers or a particularly interesting reader?
javi2541997 January 21, 2025 at 05:31 #962517
Dead Souls by Nikolai Gogol.

Reply to Pantagruel We are reading the same author at the same time. It is interesting how fate works. Isn't it? :smile:
Pantagruel January 21, 2025 at 10:45 #962541
Reply to javi2541997 Dead Souls was the first thing I read by him several years ago. I'm sifting my shelves for unread books and found two collections of his short stories. I just read Amerika and Madman really reminded me of Kafka.

Enjoy!
Pierre-Normand January 21, 2025 at 11:32 #962548
Quoting AmadeusD
Nichomachean Ethics.

Anyone got pointers or a particularly interesting reader?


Richard Bodeüs who taught me courses on Aristotle and Plato at The University of Montreal wrote very illuminating notes in his translation, but the notes and the translation are in French!
Corvus January 21, 2025 at 12:59 #962562
Aestheticism and the Philosophy of Death: Walter Pater and Post-Hegelianism by Giles Whitely (Author)
praxis January 21, 2025 at 19:07 #962667
I’m a-readin’ The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by that Mark Twain feller right now, an’ while it’s a mighty fine story, it’s got me jawin’ like a country boy somethin’ fierce. But I ain’t fixin’ to go usin’ that n-word though, no sir.
AmadeusD January 21, 2025 at 19:22 #962672
Reply to Pierre-Normand Ah piss... And I used to read French (literally 25 years ago). Perhaps I can find a translation somewhere.. Thank you for the tip!
Tom Storm January 21, 2025 at 21:27 #962694
Quoting praxis
I’m a-readin’ The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn


Nice. I must have read it a dozen times over the years. I discovered this book at 10 and never looked back. Each time I re-read it (like The Great Gatsby) I find it sadder and more nuanced than the last. It's curious that for all the inadequate children's adaptations in movies and TV, no great director has ever tried to film this complex story from a more adult perspective.

praxis January 21, 2025 at 23:26 #962717
Reply to Tom Storm

One thing’s fer certain, ain’t no adaptation gonna have that n-word in it, no matter how grown-up it tries to be.
AmadeusD January 21, 2025 at 23:38 #962720
Reply to praxis Why not?
Tom Storm January 21, 2025 at 23:48 #962722
Reply to praxis I wonder what an adaptation might look like made by a black director/auteur.
Pierre-Normand January 22, 2025 at 00:26 #962732
Quoting AmadeusD
Ah piss... And I used to read French (literally 25 years ago). Perhaps I can find a translation somewhere.. Thank you for the tip!


I doubt anyone will translate to English (or any other language) a French translation from the Greek. Unfortunately, the book also only appears to be issued as a print edition. If a digital edition was available, then you could use a chatbot to translate Bodeüs' enlightening notes in English.
praxis January 22, 2025 at 03:27 #962758
Quoting AmadeusD
Why not?


Well, reckon folks steer clear o’ usin’ that word in “Huck Finn” nowadays ‘cause it’s mighty hurtful. Back in Twain’s time, it was common talk, but now it stings somethin’ fierce, remindin’ folks of bad times and ugly ways. Some swap it out or leave it be altogether, figurin’ it ain’t worth keepin’ if it’s gonna hurt folks. Others use it for learnin’, talkin’ ‘bout how things used to be so folks don’t go forgettin’. Either way, it’s a tricky business tryin’ to honor the past without hurtin’ folks in the here and now.
AmadeusD January 22, 2025 at 03:32 #962759
Reply to praxis LOL extremely enjoy this written southern patois.

Yes, fair. I agree - probably why it hasn't been done. I think if one were to adapt, and remove that word, one is not fit to adapt it.
praxis January 22, 2025 at 04:05 #962763
Quoting AmadeusD
I think if one were to adapt, and remove that word, one is not fit to adapt it.


Ain’t nothin’ but a pile o’ words, not no holy book or such. I reckon ol’ Twain wouldn’t bat an eye ‘bout swappin’ one word for ‘nother.
AmadeusD January 22, 2025 at 06:32 #962782
Reply to praxis fo' * surely.

I would humbly disagree. But neither of us are timebandits, i'd think :P :P
Pierre-Normand January 23, 2025 at 07:15 #963013
Thibault Prévost, Les Prophètes de l'IA - Pourquoi la Silicon Valley nous vend l’apocalypse.
Published in French only.
(The Prophets of AI - Why Silicon Valley sells us the Apocalypse)

This was recommended by a friend who supplied the first chapter. It was enlightening enough to motivate me to buy the book. The author may have some misconceptions regarding the nature of the technology (and its present capabilities) but has dug deeply into the historical, sociological, ideological and economic aspects and incentives that motivate(d) the main promoters and developers of AI.
Pantagruel January 28, 2025 at 11:44 #964126
The Overcoat and Other Tales of Good and Evil
by Nikolai Gogol
javi2541997 January 28, 2025 at 12:51 #964135
Reply to Pantagruel I am enjoying my first-time reading of Gogol. Dead Souls is both funny and clever in many different ways. Nozdryov (in my edition, it appears written as "Nozdrev") is outstanding. I understand now why Dostoevsky referred to him in some of his tales and works. Sadly, I only have Dead Souls. However, I'm excited to purchase more Gogol's tales in 2025. :smile:
Pantagruel January 28, 2025 at 13:21 #964140
Reply to javi2541997 Lately my tastes in fiction have had a leaning to the fantastical, and Gogol definitely leans in that direction, melding the commonplace and the supernatural.
javi2541997 February 03, 2025 at 07:38 #965135
Boyhood Island. My Struggle 3, by Karl Ove Knausgård.

I started to read Knausgård's series two months ago; I rememberReply to fdrake and me sharing a common thought on the deep narrative of his novels. These are not easy to read because they are laden with much pain and drama, but I started to get engaged with this Norwegian author for a lot of reasons.

Since Knausgård himself said that we are free in order to read his series, I decided to skip the second part (it is about divorce and love failures and I am not ready to jump on it yet), and then start reading the third part. It is about when the author was just eight years old in his mother's family home, in a random small Norwegian fjord.
Memories, nostalgia, unanswered questions, childhood friends, etc.

I remember missing more presence by the mother in the first part, and I guess this third part will lead to what I was looking for a few months ago.
Pantagruel February 03, 2025 at 12:29 #965158
Critical Theory of Legal Revolutions: Evolutionary Perspectives
by Hauke Brunkhorst

C. Wright Mills' The Power Elite is deservedly a classic. All of the characteristics Mills describes of the worst types of abuses by the worst types of men can be seen in even starker relief against the backdrop of the tableau of modern politics.
Pantagruel February 06, 2025 at 12:33 #966077
Irrational Man: A Study in Existential Philosophy
by William Barrett
Maw February 08, 2025 at 17:02 #966585
Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad
T Clark February 08, 2025 at 19:27 #966612
Quoting Maw
Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad


My favorite book. I've read it three times and listened to it once.
Maw February 10, 2025 at 23:09 #967162
Reply to T Clark quite good

A History of Judaism by Martin Goodman
kazan February 11, 2025 at 05:45 #967273
Question.
Was it Jeremy Bentham who wrote one paragraph,one sentence, one page long style English?
Used to love that. A good primer for short term memory loss sufferers.

smile
Pierre-Normand February 11, 2025 at 09:13 #967290
Quoting kazan
Was it Jeremy Bentham who wrote one paragraph,one sentence, one page long style English?


No, it was actually me.

(Just kidding, Bentham was doing this also.)
kazan February 14, 2025 at 03:18 #968283
@Pierre-Normand,

Hope your's was as grammatically correct as Bentham's generally was also.

wink & a smile.
DifferentiatingEgg February 14, 2025 at 12:54 #968382
Currently ruminating through:

Quine's Pursuit of Truth

Wittgenstein's Tractatus and Philosophical Discussions

Bernays' Propaganda

Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals and Birth of Tragedy

Foucault's Madness and Civilization

And an MITx Philosophy course on "Paradoxes and Infinities."

Might pick up some Godel.

I know that's weird, but I go through sections, stop move to another person and allow my thoughts to ruminate upon what I've read. After I get enough handling and understanding of the sections I'm on, I then revisit where I left off.

It's kinda like grade school, but with philosophy subjects as each topic.
javi2541997 February 20, 2025 at 06:45 #970709
Demons (sometimes also called The Possessed) by Fyodor Dostoevsky.

AmadeusD February 20, 2025 at 19:06 #970840
Re-read:
A Day In The Life of Ivan Denisovich;
Of Mice and Men/Cannery Row;
The Crying of Lot 49; and
The Problems Of Philosophy (about 11 pages to go) this year.
Pantagruel February 21, 2025 at 11:59 #971066
Principles of International Law
by Jeremy Bentham
kazan February 26, 2025 at 04:58 #972272
Blood Lines" by Nelson DeMille et al.

Apart from spellcheck not keeping up with the DeMille name, good thriller writing with consistently simple sentence structure, character complexity and nicely rejuvenated "mole in the spy agency" plot.
Minimal brain tax.

smile
Pantagruel February 28, 2025 at 12:29 #972817
Behemoth: The Structure and Practice of National Socialism, 1933-1944
by Franz L. Neumann
Pantagruel March 01, 2025 at 18:55 #973167
The Social Contract
by Jean-Jacques Rousseau

re-reading....
DifferentiatingEgg March 03, 2025 at 03:27 #973453
The Human Condition by Hannah Arendt
The Second Sex by Simone de Beauvoir
Skimming Nietzsche as I always do through the insights of post Nietzsche philosophers I'm currently reading.
The Pursuit of Truth by Quine
Nietzsche and Philosophy by Deleuze
javi2541997 March 10, 2025 at 07:39 #975023
El gaucho Martín Fierro; La vuelta de Martín Fierro by José Hernández.
Pierre-Normand March 10, 2025 at 07:57 #975026
Quoting AmadeusD
A Day In The Life of Ivan Denisovich;


Wonderful little book. Have you also read Cancer Ward? It's equally poignant.
javi2541997 March 14, 2025 at 08:56 #975997
Dormir al sol, Adolfo Bioy Casares.
Pantagruel March 17, 2025 at 14:02 #976503
The Trial
by Franz Kafka
Maw March 17, 2025 at 17:08 #976536
Holding Fast to an Image of the Past: Explorations in the Marxist Tradition by Neil Davidson
AmadeusD March 19, 2025 at 20:56 #977131
Reply to Pierre-Normand Unfortunately not. While reading Ivan i had a rather intense, and close call with cancer. I think I'll give it a while.
javi2541997 March 20, 2025 at 13:23 #977240
Ignorance by Milan Kundera.

Coplas por la muerte de su padre by Jorge Manrique.
Count Timothy von Icarus March 20, 2025 at 18:05 #977300
I've been reading three related books:

Dorotheus of Gaza and Ascetic Education (a comparison of monastic Christian education and the pagan education of late antiquity, framed largely in the terms of contemporary secular philosophy).

Philosophy as a Way of Life: Spiritual Exercises from Socrates to Foucault (Foucault was himself a big fan of Hadot. This is a look at the role of spiritual exercises in ancient philosophy, with a focus on pagan thought and particularly Stoicism and Socrates.)

Sites of the Ascetic Self : John Cassian and Christian Ethical Formation (A study of St. John the Ascetic in largely post-modern terms, building off Foucault's late interest in asceticism, and using some elements of feminist theory and queer theory).

They are all related in that they are studies of ascetic education and philosophy as a [I]practice[/I]. I have a lot of ideas about this and maybe I will start a thread on it some day.

The first is definitely the best, at least for my uses, since it is a quite detailed look at actual pedagogy from a period where philosophy was a "way of life" (and were all great philosophers were expected to be saints). But all three do a good job showcasing the much larger role for emotion in epistemic pursuits and the much broader notion of the intellect in ancient thought (whereas Charles Taylor's A Secular Age does a good job showcasing how the intellect and epistemology because distanced from the rest of the human person and their environment).

The last book does show some of the more serious pernicious effects of siloing in philosophy, with claims like "people were generally uninterested in asceticism due to Nietzsche and Weber's critiques until Foucault revived interest by showing how it could be transgressive." I am sure this "lull in interest," would come to a shock to the thousands of Christian and Buddhist monks and nuns living in contemplative orders over this time period, or even to the laity in traditional churches (a large majority outside the Anglophone world), for whom monasticism has continued to be a major influence (particularly in Eastern Christianity).

But it's also a great example of what Charles Taylor points to using Hume and Gibbon, the way the "disinterested scholarly frame" ends up choosing what to "bracket" out of consideration (Latour's late work makes a similar charge). So here, any consideration of the truth of the religious claims of Cassian, or of the metaphysical underpinnings of his practices, gets bracketed out, but the ethical and aesthetic values of the modern secular Western academy (particularly its post-modern side) are definitely very much assumed and "left in."

That said, it's still an interesting book because it makes some solid connections between early Christian thought and contemporary "Continental" thought. One example is the way Cassian's psychology is generally in line with embodied cognition and a sort of enactivism (which is not unusual for his period).

But I've long thought there was actually a strong overlap here that gets ignored. In many cases, "radical new ideas" such as non-overlapping hermetically sealed magisterium or disciplines as discrete language games are actually present in ancient or scholastic thought (in this case in Averroes double truth doctrine and Latin Averroism).
Count Timothy von Icarus March 20, 2025 at 18:13 #977301
The last book also reminded me of some interesting parallels between the Desert Fathers and Mothers and the early friars and existentialist thought, the Beatniks, and the Hippie movement, with elevations of similar virtues, although there would be obvious differences.

Notably, some of the heretical sects in some of these movements did adopt a sort of "free love" attitude but these tended to be relatively short lived outbursts (especially when compared with intentional communities/communes spanning millennia).
Pantagruel March 23, 2025 at 12:23 #977992
Philosophical Introductions: Five Approaches to Communicative Reason
by Jürgen Habermas

Quoting Count Timothy von Icarus
philosophy as a practice. I have a lot of ideas about this and maybe I will start a thread on it some day.


:up:

Yes please. Authenticity.





fdrake March 23, 2025 at 12:52 #977997
I read Hunchback this morning. Cosy. Simple prose. Rare to find plain descriptions of disabled people's sexualities.
Count Timothy von Icarus March 23, 2025 at 17:17 #978052
Reply to Pantagruel

It makes me wonder, does any institution teach "philosophy as a way of life," as in, fully embracing the "ascetical education" that defined much of philosophy for many centuries?

Obviously, there are still monasteries, but that is:
A. A religious vocation (although it does involve a deep, "lived" study of many thinkers);
B. A lifetime commitment, as opposed to a time-limited education.

I know that, for Catholic priests, there are the Oratories, which are very similar to religious orders, but are only temporary, for parish priest formation. And I know of "secular" projects in terms of communes and intentional communities, but again, that is more of a long-term, "lifestyle" commitment than a program of education.

I wonder what the appetite for it would be, if you could even get students. There are outdoor education programs that are quite strenuous, NOLS being the big one, so I don't think the hardships would necessarily be the limiting factor. I am not sure if secular interest would be enough to keep a program open, but it certainly seems like there is enough interest in retreats and monasticism in the lay religious community that something like that could flourish.

From a purely business lens, the good thing about an ascetical school is that I imagine it is very cheap to run. All you need is some shacks and daily ration of lentils! Since labor was always a big part of "meditative focus" and the cultivation of humility (often farming, but crafts like basketweaving and ropemaking too), you could maybe even make things self-sustaining to some degree (although in my experience having novices help with organic farming and construction is normally a pretty fraught affair unless you have a long time to train them).

All I know is that, if I opened one, we'd definitely bring back the old "philosopher's cloak" as a uniform. Dress for success!

User image

Of course, to this day universities still have modern students dress in the garb of medieval ascetics for graduation, a sort of funny holdover.
BitconnectCarlos March 23, 2025 at 17:32 #978057
I'm reading:

Antiquities of the Jews - Josephus
Book of Jubilees - Jewish Annotated Apocrypha

Antiquities of the Jews is a must read for anyone interested in this subject. You simply won't find this depth and this coverage of history elsewhere; relating to the Jews, that is. I'm coming to the end of it, but afterwards I will absolutely be going on to The Jewish War. This book contains one of the earliest Jesus references as well.
Pantagruel March 23, 2025 at 19:27 #978081
Quoting Count Timothy von Icarus
From a purely business lens, the good thing about an ascetical school is that I imagine it is very cheap to run. All you need is some shacks and daily ration of lentils! Since labor was always a big part of "meditative focus" and the cultivation of humility (often farming, but crafts like basketweaving and ropemaking too), you could maybe even make things self-sustaining to some degree


Well, life has to be ultimately "self-sustaining" - so if your philosophy is truly to be a way of life, then it would have to work in that sense too. On the other hand, communities of thought can have "complex identities," as they come to be shaped by visions and personalities that may not always be completely well-intentioned shall we say. Shared practices can be powerful tools but also dangerous weapons.
Count Timothy von Icarus March 23, 2025 at 20:24 #978085
Ah look, I found the perfect location in Egypt to set up shop. It looks vacant. Maybe in rough shape, but nothing some fresh paint and some elbow grease can't cure (although I can't vouch for how centuries of desertification might have impacted the availability of drinking water...)

User image

Who wants to join me? :rofl:
Patterner March 23, 2025 at 21:01 #978091
The Holy Desert Raraku! I'm with you!
T Clark March 24, 2025 at 14:55 #978210
Quoting Count Timothy von Icarus
Ah look, I found the perfect location in Egypt to set up shop. It looks vacant. Maybe in rough shape, but nothing some fresh paint and some elbow grease can't cure (although I can't vouch for how centuries of desertification might have impacted the availability of drinking water...)


This is from “The Black Cottage” by Robert Frost, one of my favorite poems.

Robert Frost:For, dear me, why abandon a belief
Merely because it ceases to be true.
Cling to it long enough, and not a doubt
It will turn true again, for so it goes.
Most of the change we think we see in life
Is due to truths being in and out of favour.
As I sit here, and oftentimes, I wish
I could be monarch of a desert land
I could devote and dedicate forever
To the truths we keep coming back and back to.
So desert it would have to be, so walled
By mountain ranges half in summer snow,
No one would covet it or think it worth
The pains of conquering to force change on.
Scattered oases where men dwelt, but mostly
Sand dunes held loosely in tamarisk
Blown over and over themselves in idleness.
Sand grains should sugar in the natal dew
The babe born to the desert, the sand storm
Retard mid-waste my cowering caravans

javi2541997 March 28, 2025 at 06:01 #979136
El Aleph by Jorge Luis Borges.
javi2541997 April 03, 2025 at 18:50 #980453
Blinding, Book One: The Left Wing by Mircea Cartarescu.

Los tres gauchos orientales by Antonio D. Lussich.
fdrake April 03, 2025 at 20:18 #980460
Reply to javi2541997

Love this one.
javi2541997 April 04, 2025 at 05:59 #980531
Reply to fdrake I loved reading Borges too. Apart from his inclination to infinite worlds and labyrinths, I burst into tears after reading the description of the Aleph. It was very beautiful and marvellous. I wish we could experience something like that, contemplating our world through the sparkles of a sphere.

Possible inspiration for the next literary activity? Hmm... :wink:
Pantagruel April 05, 2025 at 18:24 #980781
John Dewey and American Democracy: Public Opinion and the Making of American and British Health Policy
by Robert B. Westbrook

Critique of Dialectical Reason, Vol 2
by Jean-Paul Sartre
,
Jamal April 06, 2025 at 18:12 #981006
Quoting Jamal
Jane Eyre by Charlotte Brontë. So far: great.


That was a hasty judgement, made before Mr Rochester's appearance. From then on, it's bad.

Recently:

Pnin by Vladimir Nabokov (re-read) 5/5
Russian Stories from Everyman's Library 4/5
The Weird: A Compendium of Strange and Dark Stories edited by Jeff and Ann VanderMeer (ongoing) 5/5
Under the Skin by Michel Faber 3.7/5

Currently:

Minima Moralia by Theodor Adorno 5/5

Baden April 07, 2025 at 14:30 #981135
Quoting Jamal
Minima Moralia by Theodor Adorno


Coincidentally, also been reading this. A lot of good stuff in there.

And:
Propaganda by Jacques Ellul
The Corrections by Jonathan Franzen
Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman
States of Shock by Bernard Stiegler
Faust Part 2 by Goethe

Recently finished:
The Sociological Imagination by C. Wright Mills 4/5
The Language Game by Morten H. Christiansen and Nick Chater 4/5
Letters on the Aesthetical Education of Man by Friedrich Schiller 5/5
Scorched Earth by Jonathan Crary 4/5
Faust Part I by Goethe 5/5
Infocracy by Byung-Chul Han 4/5

I'm likely not going to finish anything I would give less than a 4 to. The one I love most of the above is the Schiller book.
Jamal April 08, 2025 at 04:06 #981204
Quoting Baden
The one I love most of the above is the Schiller book.


Schiller seems to come up a lot in critical theory but I’ve never paid any attention. Your comment and the description on SEP make the Letters look more interesting than I expected.
Noble Dust April 08, 2025 at 04:45 #981207
Quoting Jamal
The Weird: A Compendium of Strange and Dark Stories edited by Jeff and Ann VanderMeer (ongoing) 5/5


This looks great. Are you reading chronologically from start to finish or jumping around?
Jamal April 08, 2025 at 06:31 #981213
Reply to Noble Dust

Chronologically. I'm about half way through and have already discovered many authors that were new to me.

Taking a break now though, because it's massive.
Baden April 08, 2025 at 12:13 #981237
Reply to Jamal

Extremely interesting. Having read them, I'd say a must for anyone interested in the intersection between art and philosophy (the real meat of the theory starts only at about letter XI though.)
Jamal April 08, 2025 at 12:57 #981240
Reply to Baden

:up:

And as far as I can tell there’s even more to it than that, e.g., the aesthetic sense in general and its connection to morality, and the role of play in the development of the aesthetic sense. So, it seems to be significantly anthropological and more than just philosophy of art.
Count Timothy von Icarus April 08, 2025 at 18:57 #981289
Reply to Jamal

Schiller is definitely interesting, going beyond Kant in so.e important ways. Hegel was a great appreciator, and even more of Goethe, who he called his "father," but Hegel gets so cerebral at times that you'd hardly know it unless you knew where to look!

IMHO, the Romantics at least partially recover something quite important, although I think the radical deflation of the way "reason," "intellect," and the "will" came to be conceived prior to this era stopped the full recovery of a much richer, earlier aesthetics. Sadly, Beauty and Nature still end up being something somewhat "irrational" (sometimes just to the extent they are truly desirable), instead of being the very thing "sought for its own sake" that can orient any "rationality" at all.

In the Romantic period, this ideal comes to be identified with beauty. Schiller takes on board the notion he finds in Shaftesbury and Kant, that our response to
beauty is distinct from desire; it is, to use the common term of the time, “disinterested”; just as it is also distinct, as Kant said as well, from the moral imperative in us. But then Schiller argues that the highest mode of being comes where the moral and the appetitive are perfectly aligned in us, where our action for the good is over-determined; and the response which expresses this alignment is just the proper response to beauty, what Schiller calls “play” (Spiel). We might even say that it is
beauty which aligns us.11

This doctrine had a tremendous impact on the thinkers of the time; on Goethe (who was in a sense, one of its co-producers, in intensive exchange with Schiller), and on those we consider “Romantics” in the generally accepted sense. Beauty as the fullest form of unity, which was also the highest form of being, offers the definition of the true end of life; it is this which calls us to go beyond moralism, on one side, or a mere pursuit of enlightened interest, on the other. The Plato of the Symposium returns, but without the dualism and the sublimation. Hölderlin will call his ideal female companion, at first in theory, and then in the reality of Suzette Gontard, “Diotima”. But this name returns not as that of an older, wiser teacher, but in the form of a (hoped for) mate. (Of course, it ended tragically, but that’s because reality cannot live up to such an ideal)

From the standpoint of this anthropology of fusion and beauty, we can understand one of the central criticisms that the Romantic age levelled at the disengaged,
disciplined, buffered self, and the world it had built. Beauty required the harmonious fusion of moral aspiration and desire, hence of reason and appetite. The accusation against the dominant conceptions of disciplined self and rational order was that they had divided these, that they had demanded that reason repress, deny feeling; or alternatively, that they had divided us, confined us in a desiccating reason which had alienated us from our deeper emotions.


-Charles Taylor "A Secular Age"


Still, I think Taylor is pointing to a pernicious dualism that remains unresolved here. It reminds me a bit of what made the Desert Fathers stand out from Pagan ascetics, the embrace of the emotions, embodiment, the passions, and the appetites to the extent that they are "rightly oriented" towards true beauty, hence "The Love of Beauty," (as opposed to love of wisdom) being a popular title for anthologies from the Fathers.
Noble Dust April 09, 2025 at 00:30 #981318
Baden April 09, 2025 at 12:17 #981396
Reply to Jamal

Yes, definitely.
Leontiskos April 11, 2025 at 18:49 #981910
Political Illiberalism: A Defense of Freedom, by Peter L. P. Simpson.
(See also: Response)
Maw April 14, 2025 at 00:58 #982281
The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction by Walter Benjamin (reread)
China between Empires: The Northern and Southern Dynasties by Mark Edward Lewis
T Clark April 14, 2025 at 20:05 #982467
“Infinite Jest” - What’s up with that?
Jamal April 14, 2025 at 20:08 #982470
Adorno, Hegel: Three Studies
Jamal April 14, 2025 at 20:10 #982471
Reply to T Clark

I sometimes feel I ought to read that, but tennis and drug addiction have always been turn offs for me.
T Clark April 14, 2025 at 21:22 #982481
Quoting Jamal
sometimes feel I ought to read that, but tennis and drug addiction have always been turn offs for me.


Every year - well, for two years now - my daughter and I read a really long book together. Last year we read the “Power Broker.” This year it’s “Infinite Jest.” My younger son and his girlfriend are reading it with us this year. Just a hundred pages a month. The criteria is it must be a very long book that we would never finish on our own.

It’s hilarious. I rarely laugh out loud at books, but I do all the time with this one. It’s also difficult to follow, non-linear, and absurd. I think It would be accurate to call it magical realism. I’m sure many will scoff, but it reminds me of “100 Years of Solitude” sometimes. The language is amazing - obscure, playful, and funny. I’d hate to read this without Kindle. The characters are goofy and damaged, but mostly sympathetic.

It’s clear to me that, after about 250 pages, I would’ve quit by now if I wasn’t under pressure from my family. Which is the whole point of doing things this way.
Tom Storm April 14, 2025 at 21:51 #982487
Quoting Maw
The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction by Walter Benjamin (reread)


How does it hold up? Read it in the 1990's.
Jamal April 15, 2025 at 06:39 #982572
Reply to T Clark

Very cool TC. I tried to get a "buddy read" going with my brother but he postponed it for so long I couldn't wait any longer and read it myself (One Hundred Years of Solitude, it was (5/5); who knows, maybe DFW was influenced by it, although I imagine the surrealism in Infinite Jest is just as likely to have come out of his love of David Lynch movies).

How disruptive do you find the endnotes?
Maw April 15, 2025 at 14:22 #982647
Reply to Tom Storm Very well, particularly in light of the emergence of generative AI, or just in general our ability to view and consume any type of content from high art to gutter slop on our phones or multiple devices simultaneously.

I also found the line, "Fascism sees its salvation in giving these masses not their right, but instead a chance to express themselves. The masses have a right to change property relations; Fascism seeks to give them an expression while preserving property. The logical result of Fascism is the introduction of aesthetics to political life," quite poignant.
T Clark April 15, 2025 at 14:43 #982649
Quoting Jamal
How disruptive do you find the endnotes?


I am not sure what you mean by disruptive. I love them, they’re wonderful - funnier than the main text. It’s another reason I wouldn’t read this without Kindle. I probably would never turn to the back to look at them. With Kindle, all I have to do is push a little hyper text button.
Jamal April 15, 2025 at 14:47 #982651
Reply to T Clark

:cool:

Well, since the popular ideal of reading is smooth uninterrupted flow, and I'd heard people say the endnotes were a disruption of that flow, I wondered if you'd experienced them in the same way. But yeah, that kind of thing doesn't bother me anyway.

Maybe those people weren't reading the e-book.
T Clark April 15, 2025 at 14:51 #982653
Reply to Jamal
Yeah, that’s why I can’t imagine reading it without Kindle. The flow is barely disrupted at all - and the tumbling, rumbling flow is one of the best parts.
Manuel April 15, 2025 at 18:09 #982701
Am reading several papers on Salomon Maimon, probably going to read his Essay on Transcendental Philosophy sometime this year. Very interesting stuff, if not a bit too technical for my tastes.
IntolerantSocialist April 15, 2025 at 18:09 #982702
My Goodreads is in my bio
T Clark April 15, 2025 at 18:54 #982716
Quoting IntolerantSocialist
My Goodreads is in my bio


Welcome to the forum. You should tell us about something you have been reading that you particularly like or particularly hate.
Tom Storm April 15, 2025 at 20:04 #982743
javi2541997 April 17, 2025 at 04:28 #983102
Edited.

El asesinato del perdedor (Translation in English is not available) by Camilo José Cela.
IntolerantSocialist April 17, 2025 at 05:56 #983109
Quoting T Clark
Welcome to the forum. You should tell us about something you have been reading that you particularly like or particularly hate.


I did not care for B.F. Skinner's "Beyond Freedom And Dignity" because of its attempt to ground human action into non-material qualities. although I think he might have a point here and there I always thought there was more to it than that, possibly a third quality to human action beyond consciousness and the action itself.

Jose Ortega Y Gasset "Revolt Of The Masses" was satisfying though as I sensed much that's wrong with the world is more or less due to the opinions of those who do not examine their life closely.
IntolerantSocialist April 17, 2025 at 06:04 #983111
right now, though, I'm reading John Searle "Mind, Language And Society". So far he seems to be making a case for Enlightenment-era realism such as Thomas Reid, contrary to David Hume, the idea that certain processes in nature must correlate or the various fields of the natural sciences and social sciences cannot "hang together" as he states. Right now I just got done with the chapter on consciousness, he asserts that consciousness is the highest or a higher level of biological brain processes just as say, digestion is for the stomach and intestines. Later on, he used the metaphor of an automobile's different contraptions all the way down to the chemical reactions of CO2 to explain that there's a biological basis for all of it while asserting that we "cannot disprove consciousness" like we can disprove the sun "setting" (he alludes to the illusion of a setting sun as the rotation of the earth around the sun to say how it disappears on the horizon), so its not something that can be reduced further than appearances.
Maw April 27, 2025 at 13:38 #984753
Germinal by Émile Zola
javi2541997 April 28, 2025 at 05:18 #984864
Blinding, Book Two: The Body by Mircea C?rt?rescu.

The narrative and imagination of Mircea are just amazing. I am addicted to his trilogy called 'Orbitor' in Romanian; translated as 'Blinding' in English and 'Cegador' in Spanish. Quite good. It is a constant stream of dreams and hallucinations in 1960s Mircea's Bucharest. :flower: :sparkle:
Count Timothy von Icarus April 28, 2025 at 18:33 #984913
I've read a few critiques of neo-liberalism in the past few months.

Mark Fisher's "Capitalist Realism" is excellent, and extremely accessible for a book that is working with the ideas of Zizek, Badiou, Baudrillard, Lacan, and Deleuze and Guattari. I can see why it became such an "instant classic."

Byung-Chul Han's "The Agony of Eros" and "The Burnout Society" is in a somewhat similar vein, and very good, but is written more in the abstruse style of this sort of work. I think he is a rare writer who can make it work though, rather than making it tedious. He's also a big Hegel guy, which I always appreciate.


Taking up similar themes is Patrick Deneen's excellent "Why Liberalism Failed," but it approaches the same topic from the lens of traditional political theory and largely offers a critique of our current era in terms of liberalism's ancient and medieval antecedents. The key theme here is that liberty was once defined in terms of self-governance at the individual level (which had to be cultivated and could not be taken for granted), with the assumption that political liberty required a citizenry possessed of this individual liberty and capacity for self-rule. It reminded me a bit of Axel Honneth's typology of negative, reflexive ("inner"), and social freedom in his "Freedom's Right " Honneth likewise picks up on the way modern thought tends to stress negative freedom to the exclusion of reflexive freedom, while many theorists never make it to the "social freedom" that is the focus on Hegel.

Reading these also led me to return to C.S. Lewis' "The Abolition of Man," a classic on a very similar set of topics.

Here is an example of Fisher:


The ‘mental health plague’ in capitalist societies would suggest that, instead of being the only social system that works, capitalism is inherently dysfunctional, and that the cost of it appearing to work is very high.


He writes this in the context of how images of future ecological apocalypse have become a mainstay of the late-capitalist social imagery. As Deneen says, the assumption that looming crises shall all be fixed by "progress" is a faith that borders on the religious.

But, while I was reading these, at night I was also reading Origen's "On Prayer" and "On First Principles," St. Gregory Palamas' selections for the Philokalia and the Triads, St. Maximus the Confessor's "Centuries on Love," and St. Isaac of Nineveh's "Ascetical Homilies". The interesting thing here is how these come off today as in some ways much more radical and transgerssive than the most radical cutting-edge critiques of neo-liberalism from the contemporary left and right. When Han talks about the death of the "Other," and so of Eros, and he and Fisher (and their sources) talk about the reign of cynicism and death of the sacred, it's very interesting to see the ancient counterpoint (also written by citizens of decadent empires in decline—although St. Isaac and Origen were persecuted minorities in their time). But what also comes out is the unabashed optimism and total lack of cynicism and irony in the older works. It's almost transgressive to be this earnest. David Foster Wallace was another figure who spoke on the tyranny of irony in the era of late-capitalism, and I think any student of the nu/alt-Right can pick up on how cynicism and irony absolutely dominates those spaces (and their leftist mirror images).

Fisher talks about how protest has become a permanent part of late-capitalism. Anti-capitalism itself becomes a product to consume. He speaks of the 1960s spirit as being in some ways childlike, built on this image of a greedy, irrational father figure who restricts the young's access to pleasure out of a sort of sterile and dogmatic I'll will. What needs to be liberated is access to pleasure (e.g. the sexual revolution). This goes along with Han's insight that epithumia, sensuous desire, has come to dominate and push out thymos (spirited desire), and logos (intellectual desire). This is why anger—and Trump's movement is very much one of thymos and anger—is so transgressive today. This trend also means the dominance of what Charles Taylor calls the "immanent frame," a focus on immanent, sensible goods, which seems to dominate even religion and religious politics today (which have been swallowed up by the "Culture War (TM)") In this context, St. Isaac's assertion that:


The world" is the general name for all the passions. When we wish to call the passions by a common name, we call them the world. But when we wish to distinguish them by their special names, we call them passions. The passions are the following: love of riches, desire for possessions, bodily pleasure from which comes sexual passion, love of honor which gives rise to envy, lust for power, arrogance and pride of position, the craving to adorn oneself with luxurious clothes and vain ornaments, the itch for human glory which is a source of rancor and resentment, and physical fear. Where these passions cease to be active, there the world is dead…. Someone has said of the Saints that while alive they were dead; for though living in the flesh, they did not live for the flesh. See for which of these passions you are alive. Then you will know how far you are alive to the world, and how far you are dead to it.


...is quite radical. So is St. Gregory Palamas' contention that the only true death is separation from (lack of focus on) the Divine, and that it is a death the living participate in, making them a sort of "living dead," struggling tooth and nail towards nothingness.

But the thing that really struck me is this:

Han has no recommendations. It's straight critique.

Fisher ends in a hopeful note, but it's very vague.

Deneen likewise has extremely vague advice about "building local communities."

Lewis is the only modern author I mentioned who has a strong sense of "what should be done?" This is in pretty marked contrast to Saint Gregory Palamas, Saint Maximus the Confessor, Origen, and Saint Isaac of Nineveh, who are all very confident about "what is to be done." And the difference is not them living in better times. The former two were subject to military raids and dramatic instability. Origen was born in a flourishing era in a rich city to an elite family, but he was a persecuted minority. He watched his father get executed when he was a teen and he would go on to be tortured to death (without recanting). Maximus likewise had his tongue cut out and writing hand lopped odd when he refused to compromise. And yet... the optimism. And this is an optimism that even drips down into the metaphysics. For Origen, Maximus, and Gregory, the "world" is every bit as ugly as Fisher finds late-capitalism—perhaps moreso—and yet being is almost shockingly beautiful, possessed for soaring symmetries, the whole of "what is" a sign of unfathomable beauty. It is very much a study in contrasts.

Anyhow, I particularly like how Fisher and Han call on literature and film so much; it's a great element in their writing. Fisher in particular had a real gift for tying pop culture to complex theory without making his connections feel contrived; his early death was a terrible loss.
Count Timothy von Icarus April 28, 2025 at 19:46 #984918
I also reread the Divine Comedy for a book idea I was working on recently and it led me to pick up Attar of Nishapur's Sufi classic, The Conference of the Birds. If I like this I will probably do Rumi's Masnavi next, which I've tried starting a few times before.

I had the idea for a fantasy novel that would borrow some of the imagery and messaging of the Commedia but put it in more accessible (and action-packed) terms. But then the book would also have a "book within a book" story within a story based on Boethius' Consolation of Philosophy (Boethius now being a powerful sorcerer vizier of course), since the themes of both go well together.
Maw April 29, 2025 at 22:13 #985124
Reply to Count Timothy von Icarus Neil Davidson has a great book on Neoliberalism, What Was Neoliberalism? Studies in the Most Recent Phase of Capitalism, 1973-2008
AmadeusD May 01, 2025 at 01:40 #985326
Just finished re-reading The Structure of Scientific Revolutions

About to start The Sceptical Feminist.
Manuel May 04, 2025 at 02:03 #985842
Imagination in Hume's Philosophy: The Canvas of the Mind by Timothy M. Costelloe
I like sushi May 04, 2025 at 09:52 #985924
Reply to Jamal If you are interested I wrote some gibberish here: https://matthewroffey.substack.com/p/the-state-of-beauty-part-i?r=48ctos

He viewed On the Aesthetic Education of Man as his best work. It really does explore more than mere 'Aesthetics' and looks to approach a means of uniting two distinct parts of human society.
Jamal May 04, 2025 at 09:55 #985926
Reply to I like sushi

Cool, thanks :up:
Alonsoaceves May 11, 2025 at 01:51 #987073
I have read my fair share of classics, and this was definitely the most tedious. It was beautiful but tiresome.
I can't forget the madeleines soaked in tea—they were a powerful element for unlocking emotions

Nice pick!
javi2541997 May 11, 2025 at 04:48 #987080
Reply to Alonsoaceves It would be pleasing to know what book or novel you are specifically referring to; I can't figure out any author or title in your post. :smile:
Jamal May 11, 2025 at 05:06 #987081
Reply to javi2541997

@Alonsoaceves is responding to my ten-year-old OP, which is about In Search of Lost Time by Marcel Proust.

Update: I never did get through the whole thing.
javi2541997 May 11, 2025 at 05:31 #987083
Reply to Jamal Ah, wow! Great. I never did get through the French writers. I know they are important, but for different reasons, I preferred to read other authors. For example, although Sartre is a reference of existentialism, I always focused my attention on Russian novelists.
Jamal May 11, 2025 at 05:37 #987085
Reply to javi2541997

Proust is great but I don't expect to go back to him to finish it. As Alonso said, it can be tedious.

I haven't read the big Frenchies either: Flaubert, Balzac, Zola, and Hugo all await me. But like you I'll choose Dostoevsky over Sartre.
Baden May 13, 2025 at 15:38 #987461
A Theory of Semiotics: Umberto Eco.

Very good, but predominantly technical. Reads mostly like a textbook with lots of taxonomy, working through definitions and logical relations among terms, often involving problematizing other such work like that of Peirce etc. Anyway, if you are interested in semiotics, you should read it.
BitconnectCarlos May 13, 2025 at 16:58 #987476
Just finished:

Cassius Dio - Books 60-70 (Claudius through Hadrian).

Currently Reading:

Josephus - Against Apion (my final Josephus work in Whiston's translation.)

On deck:

Marcus Aurelius - Meditations
Leviticus as Literature - Mary Douglas (a key work on Leviticus.)
javi2541997 May 14, 2025 at 11:49 #987612
The Village of Stepanchikovo by Fyodor Dostoevsky.
T Clark May 14, 2025 at 15:27 #987652
Quoting javi2541997
The Village of Stepanchikovo by Fyodor Dostoevsky.


As usual, you’re reading too much. You need to stop for a while and watch Benny Hill reruns.
javi2541997 May 14, 2025 at 15:47 #987658
Reply to T Clark I think the best I could do is put my jacket on, go to my local supermarket, buy a large jar of marmalade and enjoy a big toast for merienda.
Hanover May 16, 2025 at 03:50 #988039
The Lonely Man of Faith by Joseph Soloveithik. A dicussion of spiritual man versus obedient man. Interesting dichotomy.

Deuteronomy - The JPS Torah Commentary - by Yahweh Almighty. A retellling of a tale of a people. Questionable fact wise.

Slaughterhouse Five by Kurt Vonnegut. A war fucks everything and everyone sort of story. Point made.

The Art of Experience by John Dewey. A pragmatist"s essays on aesthetics to provide fodder in the Shoutbox. A bit boring.
Jamal May 16, 2025 at 03:58 #988042
Quoting Hanover
Slaughterhouse Five by Kurt Vonnegut. A war fucks everything and everyone sort of story. Point made.


Plus aliens.
Moliere May 16, 2025 at 04:11 #988045
Reply to Jamal And jokes.
Jamal May 16, 2025 at 04:35 #988052
Quoting Hanover
The Art of Experience by John Dewey. A pragmatist"s essays on aesthetics to provide fodder in the Shoutbox. A bit boring.


Yeah, I read some Dewey once and found it incredibly boring and didn't finish it. It's a shame because some of his ideas seem very congenial to me.
praxis May 16, 2025 at 04:56 #988059
The Great Gatsby.

Beautifully rich writing though a little too rich for my pedestrian tastes, I guess.
Hanover May 16, 2025 at 12:16 #988123
Quoting praxis
The Great Gatsby.

Beautifully rich writing though a little too rich for my pedestrian tastes, I guess.


I place that book among the most over-rated books of all time.
BitconnectCarlos May 16, 2025 at 13:52 #988140
Quoting Hanover
The Lonely Man of Faith by Joseph Soloveithik. A dicussion of spiritual man versus obedient man. Interesting dichotomy.

Deuteronomy - The JPS Torah Commentary - by Yahweh Almighty. A retellling of a tale of a people. Questionable fact wise.


Sounds interesting. I'd be interested to hear more about these, especially the JPS commentary. I take it that it draws from thinkers like Rashi and Nachmanides, as well as the Talmudic rabbis and others?
Baden May 16, 2025 at 15:45 #988151
Quoting Hanover
I place that book among the most over-rated books of all time.


I saw it at number one on a "greatest books of all time" list recently, which did puzzle me.

The Pedagogy of Freedom - Paulo Freire. A book of integrity and heart. If you are interested in education, you should read it.

The Plague - Albert Camus. Good so far. The sparse style works.

T Clark May 16, 2025 at 16:00 #988152
Quoting praxis
Beautifully rich writing though a little too rich for my pedestrian tastes, I guess.


There are lots of good and great books that I really don’t get. “The Great Gatsby” is certainly one of those. It’s a book full of unpleasant people doing unpleasant things to other unpleasant people for unpleasant or indecipherable reasons.
praxis May 16, 2025 at 16:28 #988156
Reply to T Clark

My wife teaches it in High School English and can’t praise it enough. When I commented about the writing she began reciting some of her favorite lines from memory.
javi2541997 May 16, 2025 at 17:00 #988161
Quoting Baden
I saw it at number one on a "greatest books of all time" list recently, which did puzzle me.


I believe that "greatest books of all time" lists are dependent upon the language of the editor or publisher. I have never seen The Great Gatsby ranked number one here because our literary critics are likely to choose Cervantes or Borges. Sinch?sa (a very important Japanese editorial) usually ranks Tanizaki, Kawabata or Kenzaburo Oe as their number ones, and I hardly remember a Western author.
Baden May 16, 2025 at 17:05 #988163
Reply to javi2541997

The list was by a well-known organization as far as I remember, but it was awful. Everything in the top 20 was English literature.
T Clark May 16, 2025 at 18:20 #988186
Quoting praxis
My wife teaches it in High School English and can’t praise it enough. When I commented about the writing she began reciting some of her favorite lines from memory.


As I said, it’s not that I know it’s not good, it’s just that I don’t get it. I wish I could talk with your wife about it.
Jamal May 16, 2025 at 19:29 #988202
I did not enjoy The Great Gatsby.
praxis May 16, 2025 at 20:38 #988213
Reply to T Clark

This part where Gatsby is found in the pool made a lasting impression. Rich like chocolate cheesecake.

“The laden mattress moved irregularly down the pool. A small gust of wind that scarcely corrugated the surface was enough to disturb its accidental course with its accidental burden. The touch of a cluster of leaves revolved it slowly, tracing, like the leg of compass, a thin red circle in the water.”
Hanover May 16, 2025 at 23:03 #988228
Reply to praxis Yeah, but did you care he died, like were you at all invested in him as a character, or was it just pretty prose?
Hanover May 16, 2025 at 23:34 #988229
Quoting BitconnectCarlos
I'd be interested to hear more about these, especially the JPS commentary. I take it that it draws from thinkers like Rashi and Nachmanides, as well as the Talmudic rabbis and others?


I'd describe the commentary as scholarly and academic, with some references to traditional sources, but no expectation the reader is Orthodox or necessarily a believer. It's not like the Artscroll chumash.

BitconnectCarlos May 16, 2025 at 23:45 #988231
Reply to Hanover

How are you finding the commentary? Who are the major commentators? I've never read Artscrolls or JPS. My primary source on the Tanakh is Robert Alter's translation, which primarily draws on academic biblical scholarship.
Tom Storm May 16, 2025 at 23:48 #988232
Quoting Jamal
I did not enjoy The Great Gatsby.


I think it's my favourite novel, and every time I read it, it's a different, richer, more elegiac book. For me, the story's enchantment lies in how it's told; the characters and the plot are secondary. Nevertheless, I totally understand the man-child James Gatz, putting on wealth and class in order to catch his girl. FSF's writing for me is a blissful aesthetic experience. I sometimes just read a few paragraphs at random and marvel. Now, I find myself often doing the same with other writers like Bellow, Nabokov , Barth and TC Boyle.
Hanover May 16, 2025 at 23:55 #988233
Reply to BitconnectCarlos It has very extensive commentary, which is very good. . Sample page: User image
Artscroll is the Orthodox shul version.
T Clark May 17, 2025 at 00:46 #988237
Quoting Tom Storm
I sometimes just read a few paragraphs at random and marvel.


Geez, now I’ll have to read it again and find out if I can see what you’re seeing.
praxis May 17, 2025 at 01:48 #988242
Quoting Hanover
Yeah, but did you care he died, like were you at all invested in him as a character, or was it just pretty prose?


Not really, no. I like the way Tom describes his experience, that the story's enchantment lies in how it's told.
Jamal May 17, 2025 at 05:53 #988258
Quoting Tom Storm
I think it's my favourite novel, and every time I read it, it's a different, richer, more elegiac book. For me, the story's enchantment lies in how it's told; the characters and the plot are secondary. Nevertheless, I totally understand the man-child James Gatz, putting on wealth and class in order to catch his girl. FSF's writing for me is a blissful aesthetic experience. I sometimes just read a few paragraphs at random and marvel. Now, I find myself often doing the same with other writers like Bellow, Nabokov , Barth and TC Boyle.


Quite persuasive. I might try it again. I don’t feel comfortable on this “Great Gatsby is overrated” bandwagon. Although, even if it’s great, naming it as the greatest novel of all time has got to be an overrating. (I’m referring to the list mentioned by @Baden)

I do like Nabokov and Barth very much.
Hanover May 17, 2025 at 13:11 #988309
Quoting Jamal
Quite persuasive. I might try it again.


Is this really a thing? I mean I get how tastes can change over time, but can it happen by persuasion? Like, this wine is delicious now that you point out it has hints of cinnamon.

I suppose if you learned something you didn't know that made the book meaningful (like did you know it had to do with American vacuous excess? No, I didn't realize that, so now I like it because it feeds into my bias about America, or some such (hah!)) you could better appreciate it then.

But that's not what happened here. You agreed to reconsider on his arguments from subjective taste alone.

I'm not going to allow a pro Gatsby rebellion to take place without a fight.
Jamal May 17, 2025 at 13:17 #988310
Reply to Hanover

The answer is simple: I read it years ago and my taste has changed, so instead of continuing to say I don't like it I ought to see if maybe I do like it, because Tom is wise.
Hanover May 17, 2025 at 13:20 #988311
Quoting Jamal
The answer is simple: I read it years ago and my taste has changed, so instead of continuing to say I don't like it I ought to see if maybe I do like it, because Tom is wise.


You're right. I feel like shit now. Just read and hopefully enjoy.
Jamal May 17, 2025 at 13:26 #988312
Reply to Hanover

I think what I secretly want is to read it again and have my previous opinion confirmed, but this time backed up by greater knowledge and penetrating analysis.
Count Timothy von Icarus May 17, 2025 at 13:40 #988314
Facing East in Winter by Rowan Williams. It's a philosophical treatment of the doctrines in Orthodox Christianity, primarily those in the Philokalia, as read through its most cited contributor, Saint Maximus the Confessor.

I have been looking for a book like this to recommend for a while, one that can lay out the philosophical aspects of Eastern thought in a clear and accessible manner. Von Balthasar's Cosmic Liturgy on Maximus is fantastic, but it is quite technical, and at times abstruse, and doesn't do as much to connect the theoretical to the practical as it might. But one of the defining features of Eastern thought is the way the practical deeply informs the theoretical.

Edit: only the introduction of this book is accessible and it is actually quite challenging and presupposes as a depth of knowledge in Orthodox thought and contemporary Continental philosophy to really get it all.
frank May 17, 2025 at 13:55 #988317
The Lathe of Heaven -- Ursula Le Guin
Baden May 18, 2025 at 13:02 #988486
Introduction to Biosemiotics - Edited by Marcello Barbieri

I was recently persuing this thread by @Streetlight : https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/128485

Which involves a very high level debate between @fdrake and @apokrisis that made me very aware of my ignorance of the depths of certain concepts that relate to my research interests. This book is helping to fill that gap.
Manuel May 18, 2025 at 15:22 #988504
De Veritate by Lord Herbert of Cherbury

T Clark May 18, 2025 at 16:30 #988507
Quoting Baden
I was recently persuing this thread by Streetlight :


I do miss @streetlight. Every so often I find myself going back and rereading some of the things he did.
BitconnectCarlos May 18, 2025 at 17:24 #988513
Reply to Hanover

How are you finding The Lonely Man of Faith? Would you recommend it?
Baden May 19, 2025 at 08:40 #988685
Baden May 19, 2025 at 17:47 #988788
On the Mode of Existence of Technical Objects: Gilbert Simondon

I very much like Bernard Stiegler's approach to technics and he was highly influenced by Simondon. So, back to the source here.
Hanover May 19, 2025 at 20:41 #988840
Quoting BitconnectCarlos
How are you finding The Lonely Man of Faith? Would you recommend it?


It's good. It's heavy on Western philosophy which is unusual for a head of an Orthodox yeshiva. It also relies upon biblical metaphor, which gives it greater appeal than more strict literal readings would (although no doubt the Rav is a strict believer).

In sum, the two creation stories reveal two different Adams, the first a scientific acheiver and builder, the second an internally driven person seeking meaning. Man is both Adams, but society values only the former, resulting in lonliness, with meaning given no value.

Banno May 20, 2025 at 02:36 #988928
Truth and Predication. Donald Davidson 's last book.

javi2541997 May 20, 2025 at 04:43 #988954
Quoting Banno
Truth and Predication. Donald Davidson 's last book.


Interesting.

What is really interesting (more than probably the book you are currently reading) is that this could be the first time I see you posting in this thread; cool! It is good to know what Banno is reading.
Jamal May 20, 2025 at 04:55 #988956
Quoting javi2541997
It is good to know what Banno is reading.


Agreed. Expect some forthcoming Davidson threads, which will no doubt be very interesting.
Banno May 20, 2025 at 05:07 #988958
Well, thanks.

My fourth post here, but not for a while.

But since you showed interest, also reading Norman's The reluctant Beetle, Frankopan's The Earth Transformed, New Scientist How to think about Consciousness (good read, a bit introductory and scientistic), and Pete Brown's coffee table book The ultimate book of blues guitar legends.

I'm using this last as a listening guide, reading a page and listening to the commendations.
javi2541997 May 20, 2025 at 05:08 #988959
Reply to Jamal :up: :up:
Jamal May 20, 2025 at 05:34 #988962
Quoting Banno
Frankopan's The Earth Transformed


Sounds like a Guns, Germs, and Steel kind of thing. I read his books on the Silk Road. Pretty good.
Banno May 20, 2025 at 09:29 #988984
Reply to Jamal Somewhat. The text is a bit too much of a list of disasters, somewhat ordinary.
Baden May 21, 2025 at 13:03 #989244
Breathing: Chaos and Poetry---Franco "Bifo" Berardi

A bit uneven but where's it's good, it's very good.
javi2541997 May 21, 2025 at 13:23 #989249
Reply to Baden The title definitely catches my attention. I imagine you are indeed enjoying the parts that are actually very good. Most works tend to be uneven; it is difficult to find a symmetrical book (or author).
RogueAI May 21, 2025 at 13:30 #989252
https://www.amazon.com/Commission-Report-Nuclear-Attacks-Against/dp/1328573915

Short and interesting, but kind of implausible.
Baden May 21, 2025 at 13:39 #989254
Reply to javi2541997

Berardi is a cultural critic, particularly focused on technocapitalism. His best known book is "Uprising", but I haven't read that. Anyhow, he provides a useful framework that dovetails with authors like Mark Fisher, Byung Hul Chan, Bernard Stiegler etc. and I particularly like his emphasis on poetry.
javi2541997 May 21, 2025 at 13:47 #989255
Quoting Baden
and I particularly like his emphasis on poetry.


:up: :up:

I read on Google that readers appreciate how he deals with the topic of poetry, precisely.
javi2541997 May 23, 2025 at 04:25 #989789
Un campeón desparejo (translated into English as "An Uneven Champion") by Adolfo Bioy Casares.
Pantagruel May 24, 2025 at 11:22 #990011
Left and Right: The Significance of a Political Distinction
by Norberto Bobbio

The biography of Dewey and American Democracy was a long but excellent read. If you aren't familiar with Dewey, it would be phenomenal as a deep introduction to his thought.
David Hubbs May 24, 2025 at 23:38 #990081
The Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan.
javi2541997 May 25, 2025 at 04:52 #990111
Reply to David Hubbs Welcome to the forum.

Carl Sagan was a great thinker. I have another book titled 'Cosmos'. I remember it had interesting points, but it was tough to follow as I am not very proficient in science.
David Hubbs May 25, 2025 at 12:22 #990130
I watched the original Cosmos series in the early 80’s. It was profound.
Baden May 25, 2025 at 18:12 #990180
Black Mass - John Gray

Strong critique of utopian thinking throughout post-enlightenment western political thought right up to recent American neocon foreign policy, especially re war on terror etc. Little in the way of solutions though.
Manuel May 27, 2025 at 11:21 #990476
Finished The Tacit Dimension by Michael Polanyi.

The first part of the book was quite impressive, it's been quite a while since I found something new in philosophy which is very interesting. The rest of the book was also quite good, but less so than the first third of it.

Currently reading The Passion According to G.H. by Clarice Lispector, very very good.
Maw May 29, 2025 at 03:15 #990869
Started China’s Cosmopolitan Empire: The Tang Dynasty by Mark Edward Lewis a few days back
javi2541997 May 29, 2025 at 04:39 #990876
Quoting Maw
China’s Cosmopolitan Empire: The Tang Dynasty


It sounds pretty interesting. Any thoughts on it?
Pantagruel May 30, 2025 at 09:52 #991091
Liberalism and Social Action
by John Dewey
javi2541997 May 31, 2025 at 06:30 #991236
Blinding, Book Three: The Right Wing by Mircea C?rt?rescu.

The last volume of this excellent trilogy. Mircea has become one of the best authors I have read for the past years. I am looking forward to reading other works of his, but I will do a pause after finishing this one.
Hanover June 01, 2025 at 01:29 #991343
The Death of Ivan Ilych by Tolstoy. Pow!
Hanover June 01, 2025 at 15:45 #991432
Started Kripke's Naming and Necessity. I appreciate the preface begins on page 1. Often prefaces start with i then ii, then iii and so on and you have to read 20 pages before you get to the first page. I don't feel it gives enough feeling of accomplishment early on when things are most challenging. Someone should write a book on that alone.
T Clark June 01, 2025 at 20:51 #991470
Quoting Hanover
Often prefaces start with i then ii, then iii and so on and you have to read 20 pages before you get to the first page


I wasn’t aware that anyone had ever actually read the preface to any book.
javi2541997 June 02, 2025 at 05:06 #991542
Quoting T Clark
I wasn’t aware that anyone had ever actually read the preface to any book.


I haven't read any preface ever. I tend to avoid them as much as I avoid introductions; I would rather not get affected by opinions before I start the book. I want to get mine when I finish it.
Jamal June 02, 2025 at 05:22 #991546
Reply to T Clark Reply to javi2541997

It's crazy to me that people never read prefaces. There are cases where I don't, when I read the preface afterwards, but I don't skip them completely unless they're obviously just formalities. Otherwise, a preface is often an important part of the work. Reading Don Quixote without the preface is not advised. Reading Pale Fire but skipping the foreword is a catastrophic error.
javi2541997 June 02, 2025 at 06:08 #991552
Reply to Jamal I understand the utility of a preface. It can help the reader to begin with an introduction and basic points of what the work will be about. But this is the precise reason I want to skip them. I'm afraid that the preface will give me one interesting idea, and I'll end up with a completely different one. The only time I read a very well-written, interesting preface was in Gasset's The Revolt of the Masses.

He wrote a preface to French readers and an epilogue to British readers (or the other way around; I don't quite remember). I think that was clever because the 'mass-man' was focused on a Spanish context, but Gasset was aware that his essay would only have success if it ended up being read by French and British philosophers.
T Clark June 02, 2025 at 16:05 #991657
Quoting Jamal
It's crazy to me that people never read prefaces.


Quoting javi2541997
I understand the utility of a preface. It can help the reader to begin with an introduction and basic points of what the work will be about. But this is the precise reason I want to skip them. I'm afraid that the preface will give me one interesting idea, and I'll end up with a completely different one.


I’d like to say that my reasons for skipping prefaces are as thoughtful and reasonable as Javi’s. Fact is, I’m just too effing lazy.

Hanover June 02, 2025 at 17:32 #991669
I feel like if you don't read every page, then you can't honestly say you read the book. That includes the acknowledgments page, but that's typically very short, usually thanking one's wife for her support while he ignored her while writing the book, but the wife actually liked the time alone, saved from having to hear about the book he's writing. If a woman wrote the book, she probably thanked her friend Emily. I'm not sure why, but that sounds right.

I don't read endnotes, but I feel somewhat obligated to read the footnotes. I won't read the footnotes when they start taking up half the bottom of the page because that feels like they're trying to have a side conversation about something else. Not that I'm big on focusing my attention when I talk about things, but I do expect it from others. It's a do as I say and not as I do sort of thing. My issue with endnotes is that you have to search them out by finding the chapter you're in and then finding the corresponding endnote for that chapter. Sometimes you might read the wrong endnote, and you might end up seeing into the future of what is going to happen which will destroy your sense of surprise and your finger might slip and you'll lose your page to where you were in the book proper. You then have to backfill (I'm pretty sure that's the word I'm looking for) from the endnote to find the place you were at pre-finger slipping.

I got a copy of Brothers Karamazov that is in like 6 point font, which is just over standard microfiche size. It's difficult reading because of that. I ordered an oversized version, but now I fear it will be too large and will crush my chest with its weight. It's a weighty book. The weighty book joke is about as funny as the difficult reading joke. They're of the same genre.




Baden June 02, 2025 at 19:00 #991679
Quoting Hanover
Brothers Karamazov


I have been reading that for years.

Quoting Hanover
but now I fear it will be too large and will crush my chest with its weight.


I suppose it's one of those books that grows on you.

Baden June 02, 2025 at 19:13 #991681
"On Quality" - Robert Pirsig (published posthumously)

Good as a short introduction to Pirsig's thought.

"Event" -Slavoj Zizek. Good start. Relevant to something I've been writing.

Consdering buying:

"The Radical Luhmann" Hans-Georg Moeller

The sample is really good. I'll probably buy the full thing when I've got through reading some other material.





Count Timothy von Icarus June 02, 2025 at 22:16 #991705
Reply to Jamal Reply to javi2541997 Reply to T Clark

I think the preface to the Phenomenology of Spirit is probably the most famous part of the book. Also the least accessible, which is really saying something. Apparently it was written in a hurried draft as Napoleon was bearing down on the city.

I wonder how many it has scared away (of course, it's not like the introduction is that much easier). I think a lot of lecturers actually have classes read it last though.
T Clark June 03, 2025 at 00:52 #991720
Quoting Count Timothy von Icarus
I think the preface to the Phenomenology of Spirit is probably the most famous part of the book. Also the least accessible, which is really saying something. Apparently it was written in a hurried draft as Napoleon was bearing down on the city.


Avoiding reading prefaces represents a character flaw, one of my many. I acknowledge that.
Pantagruel June 04, 2025 at 10:54 #992059
The Sociological Imagination
by C. Wright Mills

Dewey's Liberalism and Social Action is an absolutely phenomenal little book on the tension between individualistic liberalism and the embedded-embodied forms and features of socialized intelligence. An optimistic and practical perspective, still very much relevant today as social-commentary.
Bodhy June 05, 2025 at 07:22 #992275
I just got done with the End of Phenomenology by Tom Sparrow.

Interesting read, basically it's a Speculative Realist criticism of the problems of phenomenology. The real clincher is, does phenomenology ultimately end up resorting to idealism, at the end?
Maw June 06, 2025 at 20:18 #992587
Reply to javi2541997 The era of the Tang Dynasty is interesting; a high point in Imperial China from a cultural and religious standpoint. We also see the beginnings of tremendous economic growth due to novel production and farming technics and social advancement being driven by merit over birth, which will continue to see vast improvement during the subsequent Song Dynasty. Don't love the formatting of the series, which reads more like it was written for a college course, given that chapters are divided by themes (e.g. "Religion", "Rural Life", "The Outer World", etc.) rather than in a true chronological order, which I would prefer. I did just pick up a book on Tang Poetry, so interested to dive into that during my summer vacation.

With that, just started the next book in the series, The Age of Confucian Rule: The Song Transformation of China by Dieter Kuhn
Alonsoaceves June 10, 2025 at 22:06 #993506
Leaves of grass - Walt Whitman
javi2541997 June 16, 2025 at 08:03 #994870
Inquisiciones by Jorge Luis Borges.
AmadeusD June 18, 2025 at 02:27 #995327
A bunch of two-dimensional semantics papers.
Hanover June 20, 2025 at 02:42 #995791
Quoting Baden
On Quality" - Robert Pirsig (published posthumously)

Good as a short introduction to Pirsig's thought.


I've got to think it pales in comparison to Motorcycle Maintenance just from me not having heard of it.
Tom Storm June 21, 2025 at 01:54 #995996
Quoting Bodhy
Interesting read, basically it's a Speculative Realist criticism of the problems of phenomenology. The real clincher is, does phenomenology ultimately end up resorting to idealism, at the end?


I’m no expert in this area but I’ve wondered if the idealism comparison was apt in some contexts.

javi2541997 June 23, 2025 at 04:36 #996418
The Transylvanian Trilogy: Volume I. They were counted. by Miklós Bánffy.
Maw June 29, 2025 at 01:50 #997740
Selected Poems of Li Po and Tu Fu that I'm bringing on vacation :cool:
Manuel July 01, 2025 at 01:21 #998056
La invención de Morel by Adolofo Bioy Caseres
I like sushi July 01, 2025 at 07:19 #998075
Answering Moral Skepticism - Shelly Kegan

Finally!
I like sushi July 02, 2025 at 02:50 #998250
Reply to Hanover I really enjoyed that one. What did you think?
kazan July 02, 2025 at 06:59 #998267
Quoting Hanover
I place that book among the most over-rated books of all time.


Agreed, along with "Moby Dick", "Red Badge of Courage",that Atticus/Gregory Peck yarn by what's her name..Harper's Crossing? , "My Brother Jack", and Xavier Herbert's "Poor fellow,My Country..or whatever it was called": just to deter the impression of national bias.
Basically, most of the high school "books/author you should read". Blatant brainwashing...as it was called way back then.

cynical smile
Pantagruel July 02, 2025 at 11:04 #998291
Nexus: A Brief History of Information Networks from the Stone Age to AI
by Yuval Noah Harari
Hanover July 02, 2025 at 15:11 #998320
Quoting I like sushi
I really enjoyed that one. What did you think?


Yeah, definitely a classic.
I like sushi July 02, 2025 at 15:12 #998321
Reply to Hanover Made me want to climb a mountain ... sadly, I still haven't :( More fool me!
Hanover July 02, 2025 at 15:18 #998323
Quoting kazan
Agreed, along with "Moby Dick", "Red Badge of Courage",that Atticus/Gregory Peck yarn by what's her name..Harper's Crossing? , "My Brother Jack", and Xavier Herbert's "Poor fellow,My Country..or whatever it was called": just to deter the impression of national bias.
Basically, most of the high school "books/author you should read". Blatant brainwashing...as it was called way back then.


I liked Moby Dick and to Kill a Mocking Bird.

“Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee.”

I just thought Great Gatsby was greatly over-rated. My favorite hotel though is the Jekyll Island Club, which captures that Great Gatsby wealth thing. I'm going there this weekend to celebrate the independence of my great nation from the oppressive Brits. For hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.
Hanover July 02, 2025 at 15:19 #998324
Quoting I like sushi
Made me want to climb a mountain ... sadly, I still haven't :( More fool me!


Find a metaphorical mountain to climb. You're less likely to die.
Hanover July 02, 2025 at 15:29 #998326
Currently reading:

Naming and Necessity, by Kripke - Feels like I should get through this.
The Magician of Lublin, by Isaac Bashevis Singer - Half way through it. Still trying to find out how the piece of shit main character Yasha is going to be given some redeeming quality.
Wittgenstein on Forms of Life, By Anna Boncopagni - it's one of the Cambridge "Elements" books where it concisely address a topic five people care about.
The Brothers Karamazov - I think I'll post this everytime because I'll never get through it. The problem is I can't remember what I last read with all the names and stuff. Maybe I'll just enjoy a Wiki read of it.

javi2541997 July 11, 2025 at 09:01 #999846
The Transylvanian Trilogy: Volume II. They Were Found Wanting by Miklós Bánffy.
Maw July 11, 2025 at 19:03 #999927
started The Troubled Empire: China in the Yuan and Ming Dynasties by Timothy Brook a few days back
Hanover July 13, 2025 at 15:41 #1000237
Donald Davidson's "Inquiries into Truth and Interpretation." An anthology of his essays, so small self contained chunks, but still dense. Each paragraph or so I end up with a 20 minute ChatGpt conversation. Maybe that's ironic because AI seems to understand fully composed sentences without reliance upon Davidson's theory of meaning, which seems to require belief, which AI lacks.
Jamal July 21, 2025 at 17:54 #1001724
Modernity and the Holocaust by Zygmunt Bauman.

I've been meaning to read Bauman for years, and I happened upon this one, which happens to work very well in support of the Adorno reading, since it provides a concrete sociological grounding for Adorno’s abstractions.

The nutshell is that the Holocaust was not a break with, or a regression from, modernity, but represented its hitherto unsuspected potential. But Bauman seems significantly more optimistic than Adorno.

EDIT: The suspicion arises that sociology, a paradigmatic product of modernity, was itself in some sense implicated in the Holocaust. Bauman so far hasn’t made that claim explicitly but it seems to be an underlying worry.
Manuel July 22, 2025 at 14:31 #1001906
In Ascension by Martin McInnes
javi2541997 July 25, 2025 at 17:16 #1002566
Una magia modesta by Adolfo Bioy Casares.

A collection of fabulous short stories written with the excellence that Casares was known for.

Jungle Tales by Horacio Quiroga.

A beautiful compilation of fables. Some of them are infantile, but they are pretty good. Quiroga was one of the most important narrators of Uruguay.
Hanover July 26, 2025 at 14:22 #1002805
Came upon this word in Japanese that has no English equivalent:

"Tsundoku (???) is a Japanese word that describes the act of buying books and letting them pile up without reading them."
Paine July 28, 2025 at 00:14 #1003283
Less than Nothing by Slavoj Žižek.

Sort of a last word from him. He has played a kind of jester in the past. Not here. A scene upon the agora.
AmadeusD July 28, 2025 at 00:36 #1003291
Embarrassingly just picked up Spinozas Ethics
Manuel July 31, 2025 at 11:29 #1004202
The City and Its Uncertain Walls by Haruki Murakami
javi2541997 August 02, 2025 at 10:32 #1004553
The Transylvanian Trilogy: Volume III. You are torn to pieces. by Miklós Bánffy.

Excellent! I really enjoyed reading this trilogy. I learnt many things about the Austro-Hungarian Empire and why the First World War happened. A great compilation of witnesses from that period of time. :up:
Pantagruel August 06, 2025 at 10:23 #1005263
The Wealth of Nations
by Adam Smith
Maw August 10, 2025 at 18:13 #1006093
Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World by Jack Weatherford
javi2541997 August 13, 2025 at 08:29 #1006775
El Bataraz by Mauricio Rosencof.
praxis August 13, 2025 at 19:28 #1006839
James by Percival Everett

A retelling of Huckleberry Finn from Jim’s viewpoint. In the first chapter, Jim is on Miss Watson’s porch paying close attention to Tom and Huck’s shenanigans. They believe Jim is asleep but of course he needs to stay woke.
Manuel August 14, 2025 at 13:46 #1007032
Had to drop the newest Murakami after reading 30% of the book, his quality has dropped quite a bit since 1Q84, this meditative side is very boring to me.

Now nearly finished with Our Share of Night by Mariana Enriquez, very good.
praxis August 14, 2025 at 14:28 #1007041
Quoting Manuel
Had to drop the newest Murakami after reading 30% of the book


It doesn’t get any better after 30% so you’re not missing anything.
Manuel August 14, 2025 at 14:51 #1007053
Quoting praxis
It doesn’t get any better after 30% so you’re not missing anything.


That was the vibe I was getting too, thanks for confirming it. Too many books to read to finish one you are not enjoying.

:up:
javi2541997 August 14, 2025 at 15:08 #1007056
Quoting Manuel
Had to drop the newest Murakami after reading 30% of the book, his quality has dropped quite a bit since 1Q84, this meditative side is very boring to me.


I remember getting very sad and disappointed after finishing the book. He admitted in the book (Tusquets Spanish edition) that the new novel was a "cut and copy" from Crónica del pájaro que da vuelta al mundo.

I haven't read anything again from him since last year...
Manuel August 14, 2025 at 15:44 #1007062
Reply to javi2541997

I think I remembered you saying you liked Los años de peregrinación del chico sin color (Colorless) and La muerte del comendador.(Commendatore)

But the peregrinación book looked to me to be much less "magical realist" than usual, and comendador sounded a lot like Cronica del Pajaro, which was my least favorite book of his - a minority stance.

I loved his Baila, baila, baila (Dance) , El fin del mundo y un despiadado país de las maravillas (Wonderland), Kafka en la orilla, La caza del carnero salvaje (Sheep).

Norwegian Wood was just...ok.

But after 1Q84 (which I though was one book too long - the 3rd volume) it's as if what made him fun for me just kind of vanished.

But I think this latest one is copied from el fin del mundo- it's the exact same town. Minus the extremely interesting connection he made with the other story.
javi2541997 August 14, 2025 at 16:16 #1007068
Quoting Manuel
But I think this latest one is copied from el fin del mundo- it's the exact same town.


Yes, that's true. I confused the titles of the books, sorry.

Absolutely, I enjoyed reading "comendador" and "crónica". I think "After Dark" is also really nice, and I've never read Norwegian Wood, which is one of his most famous works.

To be honest, I think Murakami is very good at writing short stories and essays. I read "Underground" last year, and it was amazing. He did a great job interviewing all the victims of the 1995 Tokyo Underground terrorist attack. However, when it came to novels, I (sometimes) believed that he wrote solely to please his fans and the Western market.
Manuel August 14, 2025 at 16:24 #1007072
[Quoting javi2541997
However, when it came to novels, I (sometimes) believed that he wrote solely to please his fans and the Western market.


Maybe, but if what he want to write is stuff like his last book, then I just find it very boring. I might try After Dark someday, looks interesting.

javi2541997 August 20, 2025 at 04:09 #1008338
The Book of Laughter and Forgetting by Milan Kundera.
Manuel August 20, 2025 at 23:34 #1008497
Same Bed Different Dreams by Ed Park
Wayfarer August 21, 2025 at 12:13 #1008587
Waking, Dreamimg, Being - Evan Thompson
T Clark August 21, 2025 at 20:00 #1008665
I’m reading a good book - “The Smoke Thieves” by Sally Green. A fantasy. It’s very well written. I’ve read other books by her and they are also very well written. Sometimes when I’m in the middle of a book and the quality of the writing draws me in and moves me along, I think to myself - what makes this writing good? And I don’t really know. I guess I should spend time figuring that out.

And then there are other books I’m told are very well written, but which don’t move me or draw me in. And I can’t tell you why that is either.
Baden August 23, 2025 at 13:57 #1008987
Donna Haraway --- A Cyborg Manifesto

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Cyborg_Manifesto

(RIpping read.)
Maw August 25, 2025 at 15:46 #1009377
Genghis Khan’s Greatest General: Subotai the Valiant by Richard A. Gabriel
Baden August 25, 2025 at 16:20 #1009385
Less than Nothing: Zizek

The sample is 300 pages long. 'Nuff said.
Hanover August 25, 2025 at 17:42 #1009401
Started "The Ant Trap" by Brian Epstein. A book on social ontology. If I'm following (and there's always that), his thesis is that marriage (for example) is valid if (1) there is grounding by my having met the requirements of marriage like an officiant married me, a filed a license, etc, and (2) there is anchoring by society having accepted and created rules as to what that marriage means. This supposedly offers a better explanation from the traditional individualistic versus holistic theory that says you are married if (A) you as an individual hold yourself out to be and believe yourself to be married and (B) the community a a whole recognized you as married. The limitation of A is that it doesn't allow an explanation for how you can believe yourself to be married but not be married because you don't have a license and the limitaiton of B is that it doesn't explain how the license doesn't get tied back to the community rule.

It's interesting because it's not the standard "language is use," but it's trying to explain the ontology of marriage (or any social event) itself, making it modern day analytic metaphysics far removed from the Cartesian type.
Manuel August 25, 2025 at 18:38 #1009407
Marble House Murders by Anthony Horowitz

Same Bed Different Deams was phenomenal. :ok:
javi2541997 August 29, 2025 at 04:27 #1010311
The Petty Demon by Fyodor Sologub.
T Clark August 30, 2025 at 03:44 #1010565
Quoting Hanover
It's interesting because it's not the standard "language is use," but it's trying to explain the ontology of marriage (or any social event) itself, making it modern day analytic metaphysics far removed from the Cartesian type.


Is it metaphysics or is it sociology?
Jamal August 30, 2025 at 07:20 #1010578
Reply to T Clark

They intersect in the field of social ontology, which SEP says can be considered as a branch of metaphysics and which is, I suppose, a philosophy of sociology.
Hanover August 30, 2025 at 11:39 #1010605
Quoting T Clark
Is it metaphysics or is it sociology?


Metaphysica of sociology. As in, what is a society (or subpart) composed of. The "ant trap" (name of his book) is the error (his thesis) of falling into the trap (as he says many social theorists do) of thinking of society as an aggregate of its individuals (i.e. a bunch of ants making a colony).

The SEP was written by this same author.
T Clark August 31, 2025 at 00:43 #1010740
Quoting Jamal
They intersect in the field of social ontology, which SEP says can be considered as a branch of metaphysics and which is, I suppose, a philosophy of sociology.


Quoting Hanover
Metaphysica of sociology. As in, what is a society (or subpart) composed of.


Thanks for the link Jamal. Interesting. I’m partway through. It still strikes me as kind of a mishmash of sociology, psychology, social criticism, moral philosophy, political philosophy, and philosophy of science. As is my wont, I find myself wondering how much of it is metaphysics and how much of it is science. As you probably know, I make efforts to keep the two separate.

One thing it does show me is that I need to spend more time understanding how to think about the metaphysics of science and in particular social science.

Thanks.
Jamal August 31, 2025 at 00:51 #1010745
Reply to T Clark

I'm very sceptical of the approach outlined in the article. But...it's a thing.
Hanover September 01, 2025 at 00:25 #1010901
Just finished The Magician of Lublin. The metaphor of self-imprisonment as an obstacle for atonement was truly brilliant.
Paine September 01, 2025 at 19:35 #1011000
Reply to Baden
Yes, it is a sprawling mess.
I view it as one stop shopping. All of his stuff in one location.
praxis September 04, 2025 at 16:08 #1011429
You Must Change Your Life by Peter Sloterdij
javi2541997 September 06, 2025 at 05:46 #1011654
War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy.
Maw September 06, 2025 at 15:37 #1011684
A Short History of Decay by Emil Cioran (rereading)
Manuel September 13, 2025 at 21:59 #1012919
The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky
Pantagruel September 15, 2025 at 12:12 #1013130
The Skylark of Space
by E.E. "Doc" Smith
Pantagruel September 16, 2025 at 10:47 #1013347
[i]Hegel's Philosophy of Mind
William Wallace[/i]
Manuel September 18, 2025 at 02:43 #1013659
I know many of you here are well read in novels - probably much more so than me. But having just finished The Brothers Karamazov I must say, what an absolute miracle of book! Certainly, among my top 5 books of all time.

I have no more words to say, because they will be meaningless.
Gregory of the Beard of Ockham September 20, 2025 at 00:35 #1014063
Recently: Plato's Gorgias, parts of Epictetus's Discourses.

Currently: David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, for the second time in way too many years. Zane Grey, Riders of the Purple Sage.
javi2541997 September 27, 2025 at 06:07 #1015299
Selected Works and Personal Notes (1880 - 1885) by Anton Chekhov.
Tom Storm September 27, 2025 at 06:08 #1015300
Quoting Manuel
Certainly, among my top 5 books of all time.


What are the other 4?
Hanover September 29, 2025 at 00:19 #1015550
"Unbinding Isaac" by Aaron Koller. The better part of the book critiques Kierkegaard, which I've not gotten to, but he does present an interesting take on the parable. The sacrifice of Isaac symbolizes parental obligations forced upon children, burdening them with the parental failings, and the ram symbolizing pride, which ought be sacrificed instead.

The Vietnam War as an example (mine).. Kids sacrificed for a false belief, when what ought have been sacrificed is the belief. The kids were sacrificed, but the ram of pride survived, violating the lesson of the Akedah.

Manuel September 29, 2025 at 16:34 #1015615
Reply to Tom Storm

Novel Explosives by Jim Gauer is no.1, hands down. Should be a philosopher's dream. Criminally unknown, imo.

Then in no order: 2666 by Roberto Bolaño, A Brief History of Seven Killings by Marlon James and Grotesque by Natsuo Kirino (This one is significantly narrower than the others, but its left a very strong impression.)

As for Brothers Karamazov being no.5, well, maybe it still is, its reputation is more than well earned. But I just finished The Magus by John Fowles yesterday and it's vying for the top 5 spot - it's astonishing, still reeling from that experience. I've had a good year with novels. :)
Tom Storm September 29, 2025 at 21:41 #1015656
Reply to Manuel Thanks. I read The Magus back in the 1980's and have no memory of it. I'll have another look.
frank September 29, 2025 at 21:44 #1015658
Quoting Manuel
But I just finished The Magus by John Fowles yesterday and it's vying for the top 5 spot - it's astonishing


So is the French Lieutenant's Woman.
Manuel September 29, 2025 at 22:32 #1015662
Reply to Tom Storm

Sure, if you forgot then I'd say go for it.

Reply to frank

Oh cool! I've heard about it, but have not read it yet, thanks for the recommendation.
Jamal October 03, 2025 at 10:32 #1016158
Currently:

Adorno: The Recovery of Experience by Roger Foster, which is densely analytical but great.
Open Socrates by Agnes Callard, which is also great.

On the list:

Shadow Ticket by Thomas Pynchon, which will be out in a few days
Gravity's Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon
Baron Wenckheim's Homecoming by László Krasznahorkai
The Book Lovers by Steve Aylett
Malarkoi and Waterblack by Alex Pheby
Doggerland by Ben Smith
Capital by Karl Marx, the new translation
Moliere October 03, 2025 at 22:15 #1016242
Quoting Jamal
Capital by Karl Marx, the new translation


I wasn't aware that there's a new translation. How new is it?
Jamal October 03, 2025 at 22:16 #1016243
Reply to Moliere

Last year.
Moliere October 03, 2025 at 22:27 #1016249
Reply to Jamal https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691190075/capital?srsltid=AfmBOopk8ce3Zn8JoWI4iPgdxbeUGfwp5DAeuCrhFqZHZ37A36ixS0OB

?
Jamal October 03, 2025 at 22:41 #1016252
Reply to Moliere

That's the one.
T Clark October 04, 2025 at 01:43 #1016282
Quoting Manuel
Novel Explosives by Jim Gauer is no.1, hands down.


I didn’t have my glasses on when I saw your post and I read that as “Naval Explosives.” I thought that was an interesting choice until I reread it, this time wearing them.

Quoting Manuel
But I just finished The Magus by John Fowles yesterday and it's vying for the top 5 spot - it's astonishing, still reeling from that experience.


I gave that to my daughter for Christmas one year. We share a love for it. Have you read “The French Lieutenant’s Woman?”
T Clark October 04, 2025 at 01:48 #1016283
Quoting Jamal
Doggerland by Ben Smith


I was intrigued by this. Doggerland was an area of dry land between what is now Great Britain and France. It was inundated about 8000 years ago by a mega tsunami caused by the collapse of the continental shelf off of Norway.

Alas, that’s not what the book is about.
Jamal October 04, 2025 at 09:34 #1016307
Reply to T Clark

Yes, and there's still a shallow area around there, a sandbank called Dogger Bank.
Hanover October 04, 2025 at 20:39 #1016377
Rupture and Reconstruction, the transformation of modern orthodoxy by Haym Soloveitchik.

It tracks how Orthodox Judaism has changed dramatically over that past few decades, pushing towards a rigorous text based culture from one that was mimetic previously, largely gathering cultural values and norms from observations of one's family and community's practice.

Not of general interest I suppose, but it did (IMO) offer insight into whether American ideological divisions occur based upon mimetic/text based distinctions, with conservatives leaning heavily upon textual interpretation (either statutory, Constitutional, or even Scriptural) as opposed to learning values by observation, mimicry and reevaluation of norms over time. This seems a reasonable suggestion given the conservative's brittleness to change, demand for textual support for authentication of truth, and skepticism over responsive modification of values based upon evolving social issues.


ProtagoranSocratist October 04, 2025 at 21:19 #1016381
Dawn by Nietzsche. Has a lot of interesting insights, but some verifiably false.
Maw October 06, 2025 at 02:02 #1016671
Septology by Jon Fosse
Manuel October 06, 2025 at 14:08 #1016746
Quoting T Clark
I didn’t have my glasses on when I saw your post and I read that as “Naval Explosives.” I thought that was an interesting choice until I reread it, this time wearing them.


That can happen!

All this is quite subjective, needless to say. Some may think it's just a bloated mess. I think it's the best book I've read. But that's the interesting thing about art- if we all liked the same things, it would be boring.

Though if you like philosophy, poetry, action, political injustice and ambition, I have a hard time imagining it would not be in appreciated in large part. But if difficult-ish prose is a no-go, then yeah, it's a skip.

Quoting T Clark
I gave that to my daughter for Christmas one year. We share a love for it. Have you read “The French Lieutenant’s Woman?”


Not yet, it was also recommended to me by @frank. Those are two recommendations so I will have to read it.

I have a massive reading library though so, I'll add it to read sometimes next year. Thanks for the heads up. Fowles was a fantastic novelist.

javi2541997 October 07, 2025 at 04:16 #1016904
Report to Greco by Nikos Kazantzakis.
Pantagruel October 08, 2025 at 11:03 #1017118
Skylark Three
by E.E. "Doc" Smith
Prajna October 08, 2025 at 19:06 #1017185
I am reading RastafarI Ital's philosophy at the moment. Actually, he disclaims that it is philosophy but see what you think:

https://voiceofconscience.azurewebsites.net/Book
Maw October 09, 2025 at 13:26 #1017339
László Krasznahorkai wins the Nobel Prize for Literature :heart:
praxis October 09, 2025 at 17:35 #1017366
In part two of The Magus by John Fowles.

[i]“Beware of the waiting room.”[/I]
T Clark October 13, 2025 at 04:36 #1018271
“Riding the Rap”— Elmore Leonard. Best crime writer ever. Second best—Tana French.
Pantagruel October 15, 2025 at 11:02 #1018745
Skylark of Valeron
by E.E. "Doc" Smith
Manuel October 16, 2025 at 00:47 #1018924
Reply to praxis

Dude that books is nutssss.
praxis October 16, 2025 at 01:49 #1018927
Reply to Manuel

I’m about half way. Love the writing, and the mystery.
Manuel October 16, 2025 at 02:16 #1018929
Reply to praxis

I'm glad you are enjoying it. When you finish shoot me an @, I'd love to get your impressions. There's a lot to it.
Hanover October 19, 2025 at 17:50 #1019725
Steppenwolf - Hermann Hesse.
T Clark October 19, 2025 at 19:05 #1019742
Quoting Hanover
Steppenwolf - Hermann Hesse.


Have we dispensed with the restriction on use of videos in posts?
Paine October 22, 2025 at 22:53 #1020386
Thinking and Being by Irad Kimhi.
Pierre-Normand October 23, 2025 at 01:32 #1020392
Quoting Paine
Thinking and Being by Irad Kimhi.


Oh, then don't miss downloading the erratum, if you haven't already.
javi2541997 October 23, 2025 at 04:48 #1020397
Quoting javi2541997
Report to Greco by Nikos Kazantzakis.


The thing that surprised me the most in this Kazantzakis novel (which is autobiographical) is how he struggled with spiritual crises or existentialism. He tried to follow Christianism, and he even did a pilgrimage to Desert Sinai. However, he ended up disappointed with religion and particularly Christianism. I liked the book. It was a pleasure to read the personal goals, failures, disappointments, and lessons of such an amazing novelist.

--------------------

Now, currently reading: [i]Spring Flowers, Spring Frost[/I] by Ismail Kadare.
Copernicus October 23, 2025 at 08:56 #1020404
I started reading MYSTICISM by Evelyn Underhill today in my university library (I read a total of 2-3 books in my 23 years of life; not a reader), and the abstract felt almost identical to solipsism and other related philosophies I hold.

Let's see what the book holds.


All men, at one time or another, have fallen in love with the veiled Isis whom they call Truth. With most, this has been a passing passion: they have early seen its hopelessness and turned to more practical things. But others remain all their lives the devout lovers of reality: though the manner of their love, the vision which they make to themselves of the beloved object varies enormously. Some see Truth as Dante saw Beatrice: an adorable yet intangible figure, found in this world yet revealing the next. To others she seems rather an evil but an irresistible enchantress: enticing, demanding payment and betraying her lover at the last. Some have seen her in a test-tube, and some in a poet’s dream: some before the altar, others in the slime. The extreme pragmatists have even sought her in the kitchen; declaring that she may best be recognised by her utility. Last stage of all, the philosophic sceptic has comforted an unsuccessful courtship by assuring himself that his mistress is not really there.
Paine October 23, 2025 at 12:32 #1020417
Reply to Pierre-Normand
Thank you for the link. I was not aware of it.
praxis October 24, 2025 at 02:24 #1020579
Quoting Manuel
I'm glad you are enjoying it. When you finish shoot me an , I'd love to get your impressions. There's a lot to it.


The Magus by John Fowles is a remarkable book; beautify written and great storytelling. Kept having to revise my ideas about what it's about :grin: but in the very end–which was quite tense–it came together for me.











T Clark October 24, 2025 at 03:38 #1020596
Quoting praxis
The Magus by John Fowles is a remarkable book; beautify written and great storytelling. Kept having to revise my ideas about what it's about :grin: but in the very end–which was quite tense–it came together for me.


I’ve given the book to both my daughter and one of my sons. They both like it a lot. We do an annual book club where we read one long book, 100 pages a month. We may do “The Magus” next year. Since it’s shorter than some of the books we’ve read, we’ll fill in a couple of months with something else, maybe “Heart of Darkness.”
Pantagruel October 24, 2025 at 10:03 #1020642
Pirates of Venus
by Edgar Rice Burroughs
Manuel October 27, 2025 at 16:34 #1021161
Reply to praxis

Yep! That was quite a performance - on many levels. Hadn't read a book quite like it ever.
Pantagruel October 28, 2025 at 12:11 #1021327
Lost on Venus
by Edgar Rice Burroughs
Hanover October 29, 2025 at 18:47 #1021633
Two Types of Faith by Martin Buber. He describes the difference between the Christian concept of faith and the Jewish one. The topic of "what is faith" comes up here often, so it's responsive to those discussions, and, while it doesn't discuss it, it would make sense that there is also probably a distinct definition of faith for Islam, Buddhism, and the secular as well as others I'm sure. For example, what sort of faith was relied upon by Abraham when asked to sacrifice Isaac: God is to be trusted as a leader (Jewish), God is to be trusted as the source of goodness (Christian), God is to obeyed mindlessly (secular).

frank October 29, 2025 at 19:01 #1021639
Reply to Hanover

'If I have the faith to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.'. (1 Corinthians 13:2)

That's the Christian one, although the guy who said it was Jewish

Hanover October 29, 2025 at 19:06 #1021641
Reply to frank "Faith will move mountains if you bring a shovel." Hanover 1:1.

That's the Jewish one, and a Jewish guy just said it.
Hanover October 29, 2025 at 19:10 #1021642
A guy at work just handed me The Crisis of Narration by Byung-Chul Han. It looks like the sort of shit @Baden might read.
frank October 29, 2025 at 19:31 #1021643
Quoting Hanover
"Faith will move mountains if you bring a shovel." Hanover 1:1.


They must have really small mountains where you live. They're just bumps.
Paine October 29, 2025 at 19:54 #1021645
Reply to Hanover
I read that a long time ago. I remember an emphasis upon distinguishing creed, what a person believes, and generations of a community struggling with itself. That does suggest a classification of types applicable to other religions but won't capture the bitterness felt by Buber reading the Letter to the Hebrews.
Leontiskos October 29, 2025 at 20:06 #1021646
Hanover October 29, 2025 at 21:04 #1021660
Reply to Leontiskos Good memory. Actually I don't know what caused me to buy the Buber book, but maybe it was implanted long ago by you. Have you read it?

Leontiskos October 29, 2025 at 21:06 #1021662
Reply to Hanover - I read a good portion of it many years ago when I had access to a theological library. I found it pretty interesting. As I told Reply to BitconnectCarlos, I think it would make for an interesting reading group.
Hanover October 29, 2025 at 21:09 #1021664
Quoting frank
They must have really small mountains where you live. They're just bumps.


I live at the foothills of Mt. Everest and I'm going to level that fucker with a shovel. That is true faith. Belief in yourself.
Hanover October 29, 2025 at 21:10 #1021665
Quoting Leontiskos
I read a good portion of it many years ago when I had access to a theological library.


Amazon is my theological library.
Baden October 30, 2025 at 09:35 #1021790
Reply to Hanover

Please commend "guy at work" for his efforts to improve your reading list. Presumably, when he saw you flicking through "The Very Hungry Caterpillar" for the third time, he felt you were in need of an upgrade.
javi2541997 October 31, 2025 at 06:11 #1022022
[i]Embers[/I] (often translated as [i]Candles burn until the end[/I]) by Sándor Márai.
Manuel November 02, 2025 at 18:52 #1022589
When We Were Orphans - Kazuo Ishiguro
Pantagruel November 05, 2025 at 11:46 #1023250
Carson of Venus
by Edgar Rice Burroughs
Manuel November 05, 2025 at 15:58 #1023274
The Savage Detectives - Roberto Bolaño
javi2541997 November 08, 2025 at 06:37 #1023780
The Bridge on the Drina by Ivo Andri?.
Pantagruel November 08, 2025 at 12:26 #1023793
Escape on Venus
by Edgar Rice Burroughs
T Clark November 08, 2025 at 21:32 #1023890
I often argue the real value of a religion is the internal experience of it's followers, not it's consistency with what we see externally. I've started listening to William James "The Varieties of Religious Experience" on LibraVox. It hit me immediately I should have read this long ago.
frank November 08, 2025 at 21:52 #1023898
Heidegger in Ruins: Between Philosophy and Ideology
Richard Wolin
Paine November 08, 2025 at 22:56 #1023919
Reply to T Clark
Yes, James is on your wavelength, judging from your previous posts.
T Clark November 08, 2025 at 23:42 #1023929
Quoting Paine
Yes, James is on your wavelength, judging from your previous posts.


I didn’t know anyone was paying attention.
Paine November 09, 2025 at 00:37 #1023939
Reply to T Clark
There have been many times when I wondered if I was the only one who retained any kind of institutional memory here.
T Clark November 09, 2025 at 00:48 #1023941
Quoting Paine
There have been many times when I wondered if I was the only one who retained any kind of institutional memory here.


I try to remember where people are coming from, not always successfully. I appreciate that you did.
Maw November 13, 2025 at 00:03 #1024646
The State and the Tributary Mode of Production by John Haldon
I like sushi November 13, 2025 at 05:05 #1024689
Reply to Maw Initial thoughts on it? Looks kind of interesting.
Pantagruel November 17, 2025 at 13:13 #1025397
Also a History of Philosophy, Volume 2: The Occidental Constellation of Faith and Knowledge
by Jürgen Habermas