Omnipotence (Dictator/God)

Reply to Agent Smith God is morally good by definition. A morally good person is not a dictator. Therefore, God is not a dictator. That is, God does not make people do as he wants.

Look around you - are you in a world in which everyone is made to do as God wants? Clearly not. So, God is not a dictator. And we are not living in a divine dictatorship.

What does a good, all powerful person do? They tell others to be kind and so on. But they do not make them be kind and so on. They 'could', of course, for they are omnipotent. But they do not have to (for they are omnipotent). And nor would they do so, for they are morally good and morally good people don't do that kind of thing.

Quoting Bartricks

But they do not have to (for they are omnipotent).

Status: Approved

I can shoot you, if I have a gun, but will I?

Does God have free will?

Reply to Agent Smith Quoting Agent Smith

Does God have free will?

Yes. He can do anything. Doesn't get much freer than that. Plus God clearly values free will and so would make sure he had it.

Quoting Bartricks

Yes. He can do anything. Doesn't get much freer than that. Plus God clearly values free will and so would make sure he had it.

If you say so. :ok:

Reply to Agent Smith No, it is manifest to reason. If you think God lacks free will, explain why (and do so without attributing to God something that contradicts the definition of God).
And if you think God is a dictator, explain why without, once more, contradicting the definition of God. So explain how he is a dictator consistent with him being morally good. I think dictators are not morally good people - I don't think morally good people want to make other people do their bidding. Don't you?

So, as God is good then he wouldn't behave in that way, would he? He wouldn't be a dictator. So he isn't.

Reply to Bartricks What's the difference between God and your garden variety dictator?

Reply to Agent Smith Quoting Agent Smith

What's the difference between God and your garden variety dictator?

God is morally good and, as I have literally just told you, doesn't make people do his bidding.

Quoting Bartricks

God is morally good and, as I have literally just told you, doesn't make people do his bidding.

Yes, you did say something, but it isn't necessarily true now is it?

Quoting Bartricks

Does God have free will?
— Agent Smith

Yes. He can do anything.

There's the link between free will & omnipotence. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, sir/madam, as the case may be. :up:

Reply to Agent Smith That's true of anything anyone has ever said.

I did not say that it was 'necessarily' true that God is not a garden variety dictator. I said he is not. And the basis of that belief is that God is morally good and garden variety dictators are not. I am having trouble understanding how you are not understanding this.

Quoting Bartricks

I did not say that it was 'necessarily' true

Then you have no argument.

Reply to Agent Smith What on earth are you on about? Here's the argument:

1. If God is a dictator, then he is morally bad
2. God is morally good
3. Therefore God is not a dictator.

Look, it's not my fault your view is so easily demonstrated to be confused. But confused it is.

Quoting Bartricks

confused

Yep!

What's the difference between a dictator and God?

The 10 COMMANDments!

The situation is worse than I initially imagined it to be. We're practically slaves, God's our master.

Reply to Agent Smith You are now confusing God with the bible.
A good person is not a dictator. Thus, God is not a dictator.

I assume you don't think it is morally good to be a dictator? If you think it is morally bad to be a dictator and you also think that God is a dictator, then you are having contradictory thoughts.

Quoting Bartricks

You are now confusing God with the bible.

Am I now? Thanks for noticing.

Reply to Agent Smith Yes, like most atheists, you confuse 'God' with 'Christianity' and think that hackneyed criticisms of Christianity can just be lazily peddled against anyone who defends God.

Doesn't work. Once more: God is by definition morally good. Dictators are morally bad - and that's something you believe too, yes? So, God is not a dictator.

Quoting Bartricks

Yes, like most atheists, you confuse 'God' with 'Christianity' and think that hackneyed criticisms of Christianity can just be lazily peddled against anyone who defends God.

Doesn't work. Once more: God is by definition morally good. Dictators are morally bad - and that's something you believe too, yes? So, God is not a dictator.

You're right!

Omnipotence = Dictator
It's as inevitable as summer follows spring!

Reply to Agent Smith Quoting Agent Smith

You're right!

I know!

Quoting Agent Smith

Omnipotence = Dictator
It's as inevitable as summer follows spring!

The problem is that you don't.

Reply to Bartricks You're now absolutely right!

Reply to Agent Smith Quoting Agent Smith

You're now absolutely right!

No I'm not.

Omnipotence (absolute power) = Dictator (absolute power)

Reply to Agent Smith Yes, you're correct.

Quoting Bartricks

Yes, you're correct.

:up:

Reply to Agent Smith No, that's incorrect.

Why is God like a dictator or conversely why is a dictator God?

Omnipotence. What follows? A being that can do anything and everything cannot be reasoned with, if that being has decided upon a course of action, oui?

Why is omnipotence a divine attribute? What did we gain and what did we lose?

[quote=Eddie Izzard]Well, if you're not allowed to do anything, f**k off![/quote]

Quoting Bartricks

2. God is morally good

You don't even state which god you are referring to. Your own god? The one that admits to being a 'jealous' god in the Old Testament (or popular book of fables). An omnipotent that suffers from one of its own deadly sins. Which god do you advocate for?

Quoting Bartricks

God is by definition morally good.

Total BS. What evidence are you basing this on?

Reply to universeness It's what the word is used to mean. If you don't want to use it that way, that's fine. But in philosophy the default is it stands for someone with those three properties - omnipotence, omniscience and omnibenevolence. Now, I am not going to keep typing out those three words just because you don't know what a word means. But anyway, someone who characterizes God as a dictator is simply showing conceptual incompetence. They are akin to someone who thinks life in heaven would be boring. The latin is totalium idiotium.

Reply to universeness God. Capital G God. Which is convenient shorthand for a person with the three omni properties. Unless one is speaking to someone incredibly ignorant, of course. Then one has to keep telling them what it means and they think something terribly important hangs on this rather than that they just don't know what they're talking about. You just don't know what you are talking about. Surprise me and draw that conclusion.

Quoting Bartricks

It's what the word is used to mean.

The word has been used in many contexts from its inception. From jealous gods to envious gods to angry gods, vengeful gods, benevolent gods. I think there is a god of just about anything you can mention. Which version of god are you advocating?

Quoting Bartricks

Now, I am not going to keep typing out those three words just because you don't know what a word means.

I am not sure that I can pick up all the toys you keep ejecting from your pram. Your god of good won't like your attempts to impersonate the infantile. Try to put your big boy pants on and that way you might receive more high brow responses.

Quoting Bartricks

But anyway, someone who characterizes God as a dictator is simply showing conceptual incompetence.

Yet you try to use inane responses to dictate to everyone what god is.
Why do you think quoting words in Latin adds any power to your powerless points?
You are the one displaying vacuous thinking!
You just come across as bitter and twisted.

Quoting Bartricks

God. Capital G God.

I tend not to capitalise that which I don't think exists, i try not to at least just like i call your god an it rather than assign it the 'he' gender that you do. I also don't refer it to as a person as yu do.
Which traits of a 'person' do you assign to your god?
Does it eat, sleep, sweat, hate, love, scratch itself when it gets itchy? Does it get ichy?

Quoting Bartricks

Unless one is speaking to someone incredibly ignorant, of course.

I am sure you do converse with yourself, often.

Quoting Bartricks

Then one has to keep telling them what it means and they think something terribly important hangs on this rather than that they just don't know what they're talking about. You just don't know what you are talking about. Surprise me and draw that conclusion.

There bleats that little arrogant voice in your head again! and you are trying to convince others that you speak for the good in god. :rofl: :lol:
Have too many people been mean to you in the past? is that where all your bile is coming from?

Reply to universeness Reason is not strong with this one.

Ok Yoda! BS is certainly strong with you!

I think God can be excused if we're to label him a dictator, though I'm not too familiar with dictators that are omni-anything. God is everywhere, is all-powerful, and all-knowing. He has the responsibility to dictate.

Quoting Bartricks

Reason is not strong with this one.

:lol:

Quoting universeness

Ok Yoda! BS is certainly strong with you!

:lol:

Even!

Quoting Bartricks

God is morally good by definition. A morally good person is not a dictator.

My dear Bartricks, that depends on one's definition entirely.

Quoting Bartricks

But in philosophy the default is it stands for someone with those three properties - omnipotence, omniscience and omnibenevolence.

No. That's what one philosopher in particular made of it. Xenophanes turned the gods into one monster super being, leading to the kind of problems you are so eager to indulge in. And no one can argue you wrong. What a likeable position! Enjoy it!