You are viewing the historical archive of The Philosophy Forum.
For current discussions, visit the live forum.
Go to live forum

Humour in philosophy - where is it?

Cuthbert November 30, 2021 at 10:14 6225 views 36 comments
If I could have studied under anyone at all I think it would have been Sidney Morgenbesser. His proposed response to Heidegger's ontological query "Why is there something rather than nothing?" was "And if there were nothing? You'd still be complaining!" Or possibly Lewis Carroll: “I’m sure my memory only works one way,” Alice remarked. “I can’t remember things before they happen.” Echoes of Wittgenstein who said [citation needed] that a serious and good philosophical work could be written that would consist entirely of jokes.

The question is: what's happened to humour in philosophy? In Maths we have the great stand-up mathematician Matt Parker. We have stand up for the Classics with Natalie Haynes. And the Map Men do a great job for geography. It's odd that we don't - or do we? - is this just my ignorance? - have a stand up philosopher. Especially seeing that the images used in philosophy are often so hilarious, even without heckling from a club audience. I mean, brains in vats and fat men on bridges and kidnapped women hooked up to famous violinists and planets with water that isn't water. It's like a combination of a 1950's horror movie, a Laurel and Hardy short and a rejected Netflix pitch. It's also amazingly serious and excites profound emotion. A couple of the examples I just gave are dealing with life and death matters of moral responsibility. This would seem fertile ground for a culture in which serious matters are allowed intelligent and witty airing. Why is philosophy lagging behind?




Comments (36)

Tobias November 30, 2021 at 10:50 #625827
In the Netherlans we have a comedian, Tim Franssen, who does philosophical stand up comedy, mixing in both deep ideas with black humour and sometimes very unexpected vulgar jokes. I saw his show about Kantian morality on stage and it was really good.

During the first waves of the corona pandemic he recogded a series of podcasts, called "Civilisation, the Aftertoughts". The dutch word is is 'nabeschouwing' which is unfortunately hard to translate but it is what sports analysts do when they comment on a game after it has been played. He also acts like that a little, giving commentary on the game.

I think it is a good combination actually. humour helps us cope in practice with the absurdity of existence and jokes confront us with missmatches between our idealized world of aims, ideas and endeavours and the every day stumbling and fooling around we engage in in practice.
Jack Cummins November 30, 2021 at 11:04 #625828
Reply to Cuthbert
Humour is extremely important in life and without it everything can become so heavy and dull, especially with all the big philosophy questions. I know that on a daily basis I have to be careful not to lose humour. Perhaps, laughing at at absurdities is possible and, it may be preferable to be able to laugh at oneself rather than others, to avoid causing offence. Maybe, life is a complex mixture of tragedy and comedy.
TheMadFool November 30, 2021 at 15:52 #625870
[quote=Ludwig Wittgenstein]A serious and good philosophical work could be written consisting entirely of jokes.[/quote]

The funniest of the funniest are contradictions! :chin: Is Wittgenstein taking a swipe at philosophers who take their line of work (too) seriously.

P.S. Contradictions are hilarious when others do it. When you do it, it ain't funny, it hurts like hell!

[quote=Tao Te Ching]When a superior man hears of the Tao,
he immediately begins to embody it.
When an average man hears of the Tao,
he half believes it, half doubts it.
When a foolish man hears of the Tao,
he laughs out loud.
If he didn't laugh,
it wouldn't be the Tao.[/quote]

What about Democritus, the laughing philosopher (cf. Heraclitus, the weeping philosopher). My take on the two diametrically opposite reactions to life and reality is that Democritus wasn't laughing because life is funny, he was laughing because life is sad and Heraclitus wasn't crying because life is sad, he was crying because life is a funny.

Vide infra (from the thread: Play: What is it? How to do it?)

Quoting TheMadFool
Suppose God exists. You ask him "why God did you make the world as it is?" He responds "I was just playing."

What's going to be your reaction? [Choices not restricted to one emoji]

1. :rofl:

2. :angry:

3. :cry:

4. :meh:

5. :gasp:

6. :worry:

7. :chin:

8. :brow:

9. :confused:

10. :pray:

11. :roll:


Quoting Athena
I choose #1 :rofl:


If philosophy is a joke, the punchline would be...Sophia doesn't love you back dear! :smile:
James Riley November 30, 2021 at 18:06 #625928
I'm going to have to stay up with this thread. I love to laugh, even though I don't do it much. Anyway, I think that all stand-ups (the good ones anyway), are philosophers, in their own right. Some better and deeper than others, but all philosophers nonetheless.
T Clark November 30, 2021 at 18:19 #625937
Quoting Cuthbert
The question is: what's happened to humour in philosophy?


I think a case can be made that stand-up comedians in general are philosophers. My favorites; Bill Burr, Louis C.K, John Mulaney, Jerry Seinfeld....; certainly are.

If you're looking for philosophical humor, I'll steer you toward one of my favorite threads - "Philosophy joke of the day."

Quoting T Clark
Lesser known logical fallacies:

Michael Scott fallacy – Using the phrase “That’s what she said.”
Family dog fallacy – Telling your opponent that your dog ate your argument.
In mater tua fallacy – Insulting your opponent’s mother
Appeal to personal authority fallacy – Using the phrase “Because I said so.”
Command fallacy – Defending your argument using the phrase “Shut up!”
StreetlightX fallacy – Using the phrase “Well, that’s how we do it in Australia.”
Conturbabimus illa ratio fallacy – Expressing your numerical arguments in base 7.
180 Proof November 30, 2021 at 18:33 #625945
Quoting James Riley
I think that all stand-ups (the good ones anyway), are philosophers, in their own right. Some better and deeper than others, but all philosophers nonetheless.

:up:

Quoting TheMadFool
If philosophy is a joke, the punchline would be...Sophia doesn't love you back dear! :smile:

I didn't realize till this quip, Fool, you're a closet-
Spinozist! How absurd.
TheMadFool November 30, 2021 at 18:45 #625955
Quoting James Riley
I'm going to have to stay up with this thread. I love to laugh, even though I don't do it much. Anyway, I think that all stand-ups (the good ones anyway), are philosophers, in their own right. Some better and deeper than others, but all philosophers nonetheless.


:up:
TheMadFool November 30, 2021 at 18:45 #625956
Quoting 180 Proof
I didn't realize till this quip, Fool, you're a closet-
Spinozist! How absurd.


:grin:
180 Proof November 30, 2021 at 19:19 #625978
A motley gaggle of hilariously "philosophical" rodeo clowns who can slap-n-tickle my "pineal gland" into a frenzy:

( ... )
[i]Groucho Marx
Lenny Bruce
Richard Prior
Woody Allen
George Carlin
Robin Williams
John Cleese
Rowan Atkinson
Bill Hicks
Bernie Mac
Dave Chappell
Bill Burr[/i]
James Riley November 30, 2021 at 19:59 #626002
Quoting Cuthbert
"Why is there something rather than nothing?" was "And if there were nothing? You'd still be complaining!"


That right there just fucking nails it! :rofl:
baker November 30, 2021 at 20:21 #626013
Quoting Tobias
I think it is a good combination actually. humour helps us cope in practice with the absurdity of existence and jokes confront us with missmatches between our idealized world of aims, ideas and endeavours and the every day stumbling and fooling around we engage in in practice.


But philosophers don't all believe that our existence is absurd; in fact, many, if not most, don't.

As for the mismatch: If anything, philosophers are trying to make sense of it, not bemoan it and joke about it like third-class moralizing busybodies.
Cuthbert December 01, 2021 at 13:01 #626323
Ok, I think I get it. I shouldn't be looking for philosophers doing stand-up. I should be looking for stand-ups doing philosophy. That's a great idea!
Cartuna December 01, 2021 at 23:04 #626497
A nice comedy would be the play of a group of philosophers pissing on established philosophy, thereby creating understanding and a possible liberation from the establishment.
Tom Storm December 01, 2021 at 23:09 #626499
Quoting Cuthbert
Ok, I think I get it. I shouldn't be looking for philosophers doing stand-up. I should be looking for stand-ups doing philosophy. That's a great idea!


Maybe. I personally dislike most stand up comedy, so I'm out. :groan:

Manuel December 02, 2021 at 00:01 #626538
I like sushi December 02, 2021 at 04:11 #626635
Zizek is quite funny sometimes
Tom Storm December 02, 2021 at 04:16 #626636
Reply to I like sushi He is. Good example.
Jamal December 02, 2021 at 05:43 #626646
Yes, I thought about mentioning Zizek. He uses jokes to elucidate his concepts, especially the concept of ideology.
god must be atheist December 02, 2021 at 09:08 #626705
How many here have seen the clip in "Monthy Python at the Hollywood Bowl", where they televise a soccer match between a team of classical Greek philosophers and a team of German philosophers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfduUFF_i1A
Cuthbert December 02, 2021 at 09:10 #626706
Quoting Tom Storm
Maybe. I personally dislike most stand up comedy, so I'm out.


My feelings exactly until a new breed of stand-up appeared which consists of very witty treatment of serious subjects - basically, excellent lectures. I mentioned maths, Classics and geography, there are probably more. If 'stand-up' calls to mind some guy wittering on about his flatmate's bathroom habits then I agree, but there's more to it than that, I promise.
Cuthbert December 02, 2021 at 09:14 #626707
Reply to god must be atheist Oh gosh, I've never seen that. I laughed from start to finish. Thank you. I guess you know Jonathan Miller as Bertrand Russell?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSifxC_L9F0
god must be atheist December 02, 2021 at 09:33 #626711
Quoting Cuthbert
I guess you know Jonathan Miller as Bertrand Russell?


Loved it!! I hadn't known. Thanks for showing it!
T Clark December 02, 2021 at 18:15 #626870
Quoting god must be atheist
How many here have seen the clip in "Monthy Python at the Hollywood Bowl", where they televise a soccer match between a team of classical Greek philosophers and a team of German philosophers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfduUFF_i1A


Yes. It's hard to talk about philosophical humor, or humorous philosophy, without bringing this out.
Tom Storm December 02, 2021 at 18:35 #626878
Quoting Cuthbert
If 'stand-up' calls to mind some guy wittering on about his flatmate's bathroom habits then I agree, but there's more to it than that, I promise.


It's not just the material, it's the form. And I have no sense of humour. I find comedians generally too needy for love or hectoring bores.
baker December 02, 2021 at 19:31 #626912
Quoting Tom Storm
I find comedians generally too needy for love or hectoring bores.


And miserable. So miserable.

When it eventually comes out that such and such comedian is depressed, or committed suicide, somehow, it's not a surprise. What is surprising is that so many people don't seem to see the signs early on -- the dropping corners of the comedian's mouth when they smile, the sad eyes, the conspicuous hyperoptimism.
T Clark December 02, 2021 at 19:40 #626917
Quoting baker
And miserable. So miserable.

When it eventually comes out that such and such comedian is depressed, or committed suicide, somehow, it's not a surprise.


Just as true, or more so, of philosophers and wannabe philosophers.

Tom Storm December 02, 2021 at 19:49 #626921
Quoting T Clark
Just as true, or more so, of philosophers and wannabe philosophers.


And don't even talk to me about actors....
James Riley December 02, 2021 at 19:52 #626924
Reply to T Clark

:100:

The comedian aside, what of the joy they bring to others? Is the audience no different than a crowd in Rome, taking delight in watching others die? I don't think so. I think it is more like those who appreciate a painting or sculpture who may be aware the artist has a tortured soul.

As another digression, I love watching the crowd during a stand-up routine, particularly attractive women caught in unguarded, selfless, mirth. Indeed, even the not-so attractive become more so. I don't know why. Have to ask Freud or some shrink. :grin:
Tom Storm December 02, 2021 at 20:01 #626931
Quoting baker
When it eventually comes out that such and such comedian is depressed, or committed suicide, somehow, it's not a surprise.


The trope of the sad clown is one of those unfortunate truths about humor. I tend to see the funny side of real things rather than contrived things. I can't do comedy movies or any kind of sitcom either. I find Nietzsche amusing in places ("In heaven all the interesting people are missing.") and he may well have been a riot in person. But I am not a deep reader of his oeuvre and I can't help feeling that if he had just been more successful with women he might have been a very different style of writer.
Cartuna December 02, 2021 at 21:33 #626981
Plato enters his mathematical heaven when dead. In ecstasy he contemplates the final unification with his Platonic bodies. When cooled down, he buys a packet of cigarettes at the local tetrahedron and lightens one up. Walking along contently, exhaling jolly spheres, he suddenly hears someone crying. It's Aristotle, sitting on a perfect cube, weeping tears by the bucket. Plato moves his ass to the cube. "Aristotle, my man! Why the tears?" Arìstotle took a handkerchief and loudly blew his nose. "Damn you Plato, you were right all the time, and as a matter of fact, I should still be down there", after which he cried even louder, calling for mama, and exclaiming shockingly that life ain't fair.
James Riley December 02, 2021 at 21:58 #626989
Side bar:

I just googled philosophy cartoon and there was some fun. Not all, but some.

User image
Cuthbert December 03, 2021 at 10:01 #627262
Quoting Tom Storm
I tend to see the funny side of real things rather than contrived things.


I'm sorry to break this news, Tom Storm, but that may be the first step on a road to becoming a stand-up comedian. The second step is wanting to share it with everyone. You're almost there - despite yourself... :wink:
Cartuna December 03, 2021 at 10:47 #627266
Popper was about to get his medal from the queen. With a smiling face he approached her to receive his royal title. Then roaring stumble was heard and one of the royal guards came running in wildly gesturing and shouting that the ceremony should be stopped. "Hoooold them horses"! Popper got nervous. He loosened his tie and watched what happened. The guard shouted in stacatto: "Your majesty! Scientists have found ir-re-fu-table proof! Falsification is no rule!" Popper gestured the queen to not pay attention and just give him the title and the fucking medal. "Instead she addressed him: Is this true, sr Popper?" Popper looked terrified and told her that he didn't know on Earth what the guard was talking about. The queen took Popper in with the examining face of a detective. She then shook her head. "No Sir! And don't even try to falsify that!" Upon which Popper smacked her in the face. "Yes my queen, you are absolutely right! I am No Sir!"
EricH December 03, 2021 at 16:27 #627348
Reply to James Riley
I find Existential Comics to be laugh out loud funny on a regular basis. Here is Camus Teaches Elementary School.

I donate money through Patreon and I would encourage all readers/participants of TPF to do likewise. It's a helpful antidote to the intense seriousness of many of these discussions.
Alkis Piskas December 03, 2021 at 19:32 #627404
Reply to Cuthbert
A simple remark: It's quite weird that you brought up Wittgenstein in relation to humor! He's one of the most tragic figures I have ever seen in philosophy! The guy was highly depressive. (You can easily see that in almost all of his photos, while reading his statement "a serious and good philosophical work could be written that would consist entirely of jokes"! This is a joke in itself!)

Quoting Cuthbert
what's happened to humor in philosophy?

I think the same thing that has happened to all sectors in life: politics, science, etc. Except maybe in stand-up comedy and comedy movies (romantic and pure comedies), but even there, humor has deteriorated. Compare, e.g. comedy movies of the first half of the 20th c. with the those of today. I certainly laugh much more with old comedies. Of course, quality was a much strong criterion for a movie to get into the market than it is now. Abundance destroys quality. Maybe the same happens with philosophy.

So, I don't know if philosophers suffer from lack of humor more than other professions. Doctors, for instance, are horrible when comes to humor. Usually, they don't even respond to humor. They are too "tight". Lawyers are a little "looser". Teachers: Looking back in my school and college period, I can find a handful only of teachers that could be called humorous. Too tight too. Most politicians are too serious. And so on.

Then, humor of course is quite subjective. So, one has to do a survey, asking people: "Has humor been diminished or deteriorated in relation to the past?" If this is true for most people (to a marked degree), then one can safely accept it as a fact.

Anyway, the only way to preserve humor is to keep it alive! :smile:

"What do Nihilists have to say about Nihilism? If it was not for Nihilism, they would have nothing to believe in."
James Riley December 03, 2021 at 23:09 #627484