Scotty from Marketing

That fucking man ughhh

Useless, corrupt, self-satisfied wanker.

And yet I do not trust Australians to do anything about it.

Reply to Banno How dare you!

Definitive proof that the holly-roller, huckster Christian ethos of fuckin' over thy neighbour and feeling smug, has no place in our body politic.

quote="Banno;d10876"]The Centre for National Resilience.[/quote] It's a marvellously Orwellian title.

Quoting StreetlightX

Useless, corrupt, self-satisfied wanker.

Ah, I see you've met him.

Meanwhile, our not-at-all guilty of sexually-assaulting-women-minister for industry, science, and tech:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/tegangeorge/status/1390573762634866695[/tweet]

Reply to StreetlightX
https://www.fedcourt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/84512/Defence-7-May-2021.pdf
Well, it's not for us, not until Scotty has had a chance to spin it...

Reply to Banno Hah, it's as if they had an art attack and stuck a bunch of Malevich's Black Squares there at the end.

Quoting Banno

Dalit

Daleks? Geez. And they say we have problems.

Quoting Banno

while we make sure they are not Dalit

On point! The pot calling the kettle black. We're all sinners I suppose, saints are mere myth.

[quote=The Good Book]We find in the Bible in the eighth chapter of the Book of John, a story of a woman caught in adultery. The Bible says that Jesus was in the temple teaching and the scribes and pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery.

They told Jesus that according to the law she should be stoned. Then they asked Him, what do you say. This was done to test Jesus so that they might have something to accuse Him of.

At that point the Bible tells us that Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear them. When they continued asking Him, He got up from the ground and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.”

Then Jesus stooped down again and wrote on the ground. At that point, the Bible tells us that many were convicted by their conscience and walked away one by one.[/quote]

Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones

He was called to do God’s work as prime minister

Quoting StreetlightX

And yet I do not trust Australians to do anything about it.

Perhaps the trouble is, it's too fucking nice here. We can do "She'll be right" and "No worries". We can afford to have a useless, corrupt, self-satisfied wanker in charge because the States do all the hard lifting anyway.

The Feds had two jobs: Quarantine, which they left to the states, so that now we can't look after returning Australians, and vaccination... now that's going well, hey?

Quoting Banno

The Feds had two jobs: Quarantine, which they left to the states, so that now we can't look after returning Australians, and vaccination... now that's going well, hey?

What I don't understand is how these are not easy wins for the coalition? Like, who says 'we don't have a plan', rather than just fudge it and say 'yes, here's our plan'? (and if it doesn't work out, then I dunno, keep doing what these shits do and shunt responsibility elsewhere?). Like, these guys lie for breakfast - what's keeping them from lying here? Is it a tacit acknowledgement of their utter incompetence? Or are they really so comfortable that they really reckon 'nah, we'll wing it' is really OK with the electorate? And are they right about that? I don't get the politics of what they are doing (maybe I'm naïve?). Like, what's the angle here?

Reply to StreetlightX Coalition and Morrison gain in Newspoll, and the new Resolve poll

Haven't understood Australian voting since 1975.

Quoting Banno

He was called to do God’s work as prime minister

I think, good or bad, it's usually the other,way round: Prime ministers are called to do God's work :grin:

Reply to Banno We're a scared, petty nation.

Quoting StreetlightX

We're a scared, petty nation.

Who isn't?

Stan Grant...
How can Australia achieve economic growth when the Treasurer can't name China in his budget speech?

The Liberals cannot address difficult issues. They cannot plan for the future because they cannot see past tomorrow's headlines. Their party mechanism promotes mediocrity.

Federal government will spend $600 million on new Kurri Kurri gas plant in the NSW Hunter Valley

That'll fix covid.

Reply to Banno I don't know why I think of this anecdote.

1977 - Kerry Packer rings an adviser/friend: "Idi Amin has invited me to go elephant shooting with him in Uganda, should I go, or will it harm my reputation?"

Adviser: "I don't know about your reputation, Kerry, but it will fuck Idi's..."

We are so lost....

Reply to Tom Storm :wink:


Here's the spin, straight from the Marketing Division of AGL:
https://www.pm.gov.au/media/gas-fired-recovery

Reply to Banno

“Our plan for Australia’s energy future is squarely focused on bringing down prices, keeping the lights on and reducing our emissions and these interconnectors bring us a step closer to that reality.”

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin, again? I notice an Ordinary Bloke's collection of baseball caps behind our apparently desk bound Scotty. Did he get rid of the MAGA one?

Quoting Tom Storm

Did he get rid of the MAGA one?

I suspect he is sitting on it.

Meanwhile, shunted in the middle of budget frenzy:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/may/13/new-law-allows-australian-government-to-indefinitely-detain-refugees-with-criminal-convictions

"Human rights groups – and parliament’s own human rights committee – say a new law pushed through parliament gives the government the power to indefinitely detain refugees, potentially for the rest of their lives. ... The law allows for the government, where it had cancelled the visa of a refugee but could not send them back to their country of origin because they would face persecution there, to detain them indefinitely. ...
The new law also gives the minister a broad unchallengeable power to withdraw a person’s refugee status recognition – declaring they can be returned to the country they fled."

Despicable bastards.

...and the bit about the 20,000 folk with disabilities, who can't get vaccinated despite being a top priority - that's "Good enough".

Please welcome today’s guest Senator Ian the Climate Denialist Potato who is here all the way from Canberra!

A dossier of lies and falsehoods

Reply to Banno

Crikey.

Reply to Banno +1 :vomit:

It'll be amusing to watch Scotty spin this:

Report into Australia Post's handling of Christine Holgate's resignation calls for Scott Morrison to apologise

Reply to Banno Apology is not in his vocabulary. He's Trumpian in that regard.

Tracking Australia’s COVID vaccine rollout numbers

However, after all the chest-beating and threats to blow up search in Australia, the new media giants have come to the table:

Nine Entertainment Co will receive hundreds of millions of dollars to support its newsrooms over the next five years after formalising deals with Google and Facebook for use of content on their platforms.

Industry sources, who spoke anonymously because they had signed non-disclosure agreements, said the two deals were signed early on Tuesday morning, after months of negotiations and the introduction of landmark new media bargaining laws.

...The deals follow a difficult negotiating period which included a decision by Facebook to pull news from its platform altogether and threats from Google to withdraw search from the market. The negotiations were led by chairman and former federal treasurer Peter Costello, chief digital and publishing officer Chris Janz and director of subscriptions and growth, David Eisman.

While the new laws do not currently apply to Google and Facebook, the threat of being forced to comply with them has been enough to make them sign deals.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/nine-formalises-deals-with-google-and-facebook-20210601-p57wxq.html


How is that not a win? I'll be watching Paul Barry next Monday, that's for sure.

//also this

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/why-google-boss-sundar-pichai-learnt-to-love-australia-s-media-laws-20210527-p57vpj.html

Australia has an amazingly robust and dynamic culture. How did that happen?

For all the problems it has as a country, and every country has problems that's evident, I sure am jealous of people living there.

Sure, I've seen some figures in the right say some pretty stupid things about Climate Change. But's that a standard now, basically no right wing figures are particularly interesting. Say what you want about the old school Austrians, but Hayek and Schumpeter were much more sophisticated than almost anything on the right now.

Not that labor is amazing, that's another topic...

Quoting frank

Australia has an amazingly robust and dynamic culture. How did that happen?

It's convict origins made for a very egalatarian culture, which it still is. It's been called, in a famous book from some decades back 'the lucky country' - due to the abundance of resources and the natural bounty of the continent (despite huge swathes of the interior being uninhabitable desert). The Westminster political system I think is superior to the US system. There's also a sense of the 'fair go' which is something people I know who have moved here from America says is lacking there. Not that Australia doesn't have problems of its own.

Quoting Manuel

I've seen some figures in the right say some pretty stupid things about Climate Change.

The recent politics of climate change have been utterly tragic here, although it's finally beginning to change. But a labor government successfully introduced on the very first emissions trading schemes, back in about 2012 I think it was, which faced unremitting and intense hostility from the conservatives and the Australian equivalents of Rush Limbaugh. Much to the eternal disgrace of the Liberal-National party, when it got into office, it dismantled that legislation, which was working as intended and would have greatly contributed toward reducing carbon emissions at practically no visible cost to anyone. That was an act of utter political bastardty. (The then Prime Minister was to be forced from his seat in Parliament in 2019 by an Action on Climate Change independent, which was one of the sweetest moments in Australian politics.)

The really poisonous, indeed treacherous, thing that the Conservatives did was politicise climate-change policies for their own advantage, running a scare campaign on the 'great big new tax'. Until then there had been a cautious bi-partisan attitude, that it was something that had to be dealt with for the sake of future generations. About 3-4 politicians from the conservative side of politics totally blew that up in the space of a few months. It was criminal, in my view. They're the elements in Australian politics that are most like the GOP alt-right in the US. Imbeciles.

The current government's hand has been forced as the UK and US under Biden have taken a much more forceful approach and won't let Australia wriggle out of it. Plus the agricultural lobby has well and truly changed its mind. After the catastrophic bushfire season in 2019-2020 the public finally accepted the reality of having to deal with climate change. But you still get the sense the conservative side is being dragged kicking and screaming (with some exceptions at State Government levels.)

Some background.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/gillard-on-climate-action-it-was-done-and-we-can-do-it-again-in-the-future-63753/

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/the-recent-history-of-australia-s-climate-change-wars

Quoting Wayfarer

It's convict origins made for a very egalatarian culture, which it still is.

...was...

Liberal policies have degraded equity greatly since the nineties. Education in particular as become less equitable. Australia is ninth-worst of 77 countries for the equitable allocation of resources between disadvantaged and advantaged schools. Only Colombia, Panama, Peru, Cyprus, Philippines, Mexico. Brazil and Thailand rank lower.

Reply to Banno ...ok, which it still is in some ways.

Currently Australian Labor, both State and Federal (WA is not counted as they’ve won solely on the back of COVID) has to re-invent itself, come up with a grand vision of some kind, as they look like a party bobbing in the wake of history at this point in time. Badly need some new Bobs (Carr or Hawke, either would do) plus a new script.

Quoting Wayfarer

Liberal-National party, when it got into office, it dismantled that legislation, which was working as intended and would have greatly contributed toward reducing carbon emissions at practically no visible cost to anyone.

:roll:

Quoting Wayfarer

The really poisonous, indeed treacherous, thing that the Conservatives did was politicise climate-change policies for their own advantage, running a scare campaign on the 'great big new tax'.

I assume that "lobbying" in Australia isn't as transparent as it is in the US, essentially legal bribery, out in the open. Nevertheless, those changes you indicate must have come from coal and traditional energy sectors who just want money now, without thinking about what happens a few years down the road. These "neoliberals" have this sophisticated game of politicizing things which should be obvious under the cunningly labeled term "freedom." And whose against that?

Quoting Wayfarer

After the catastrophic bushfire season in 2019-2020 the public finally accepted the reality of having to deal with climate change. But you still get the sense the conservative side is being dragged kicking and screaming (with some exceptions at State Government levels.)

That's very good to hear. I was reading or maybe I was watching some news from your own ABC that some firefighters during those bush fires were basically accepting that the Australian public simply assumed that this was going to be the new normal. Thankfully it isn't so...

Quoting Wayfarer

https://reneweconomy.com.au/gillard-on-climate-action-it-was-done-and-we-can-do-it-again-in-the-future-63753/

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/the-recent-history-of-australia-s-climate-change-wars

:up:

Thanks

Quoting Wayfarer

There's also a sense of the 'fair go'

We have one of those in North Dakota. What's yours like?

Quoting frank

We have one of those in North Dakota. What's yours like?

Ours is a not very perspicacious neo-liberal knob-jockey.

Quoting Tom Storm

Ours is a not very perspicacious neo-liberal knob-jockey.

Could you expand on that?

Reply to frank A lot less cold :scream: .

Although I most enjoyed the Coen Bros production of it.

Reply to Wayfarer It gets down to -40F there.

What's fair go?

Reply to frank probably +40 c

More when climate change really kicks in. 'Birds fall cooked from the sky'.

Reply to frank I was being flip. The idea of the 'fair go' is a key Australian myth. That all Aussies get the same opportunities and understanding. But many people do not and never did get fair goes here - our Aboriginal population, for instance. Like we see in many other countries, neo-liberalism and user pays corporatism has us by the balls and a lot of folk are hurled onto the scrapheap. Hence Scotty from Marketing - we don't have Prime Ministers anymore.

Reply to Wayfarer :up:

Reply to Tom Storm
Yep. It's raid, exploit, and dump. State governments are helpless. Can't go on forever, tho.

ABC bosses block Four Corners episode linking PM to QAnon figure

Nothing to see here. Move along.

I told you months ago it was in Australia. You guys didn't believe me. Pfft.

Apparently it's on this week.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/australian-nightmare-looms-even-as-frydenberg-prepares-his-election-pitch-20210618-p582ce.html?btis

Seventy per cent of all housing wealth in Australia is now concentrated in the hands of the over 65s. [Approx 16% of the population - SX]

The rise in house prices in the biggest cities is simply ridiculous. Take the price of the median Melbourne house. It hit $908,000 last month, according to CoreLogic data. To reach that level, it increased by almost $800 each day, every day, of the year to date. Or Sydney. The price of the median Sydney house reached $1.186 million last month. Which represented a daily price rise of $1220 for every day of the year to that point. So if you were aged 21 to 35, and earning the national average income for people in your age group – $58,635 a year – the price of a Sydney house was rising every day by an amount equal to one week’s wages. The message to average Australians is to despair of being able to do what your parents very likely did – buy a home. What a brilliant national achievement. We’ve priced the next generation out of the ability to buy a home. We have only 26 million people inhabiting an entire continent but cannot supply affordable housing in our major cities.

Re: Morrison's standing at the G7:

This is the diplomatic treatment befitting of Australia’s true global status as embarrassing, unhelpful coal-guzzling climate pariah; a stupid, irresponsible outlier in a shifting world; an unambitious island nation determined to squander the very real opportunity to prosper in the inevitable renewable energy age. No matter how the Australian Government spins this, how breathlessly their propagandists in the press parrot their position, or how effectively our fossil fuel oligarchs lobby against it, this year’s G7 marked the beginning of the end of the age of coal.

All member nations stated that government support for the industry would cease, and re-affirmed pledges to hit net zero emissions by 2050. Along the way, the UK has set a 78% reduction target by 2035 (from 1990 levels), while the USA is aiming for a 50-52% cut by 2030 (from a different 2005 benchmark). Australia’s current target of a 26%-28% reduction in emissions by 2030 sets us at the back of the developed world’s contribution to this global crisis, and our current trajectory has us reaching net zero emissions by 2167. By then, we’ll hopefully be vaccinated against coronavirus.

https://theshot.net.au/general-news/scott-morrisons-australia-is-fucking-embarrassing/

Well Australian politics has just taken a giant leap backwards.

Reply to Wayfarer Inevitable and I am surprised it took this long. Barnaby and Scotty are going to be a part of our lives for the next few years, I'm afraid.

They take the Australian public for a bunch of fools and... they're probably right. You'll never meet a more politically apathetic bunch of wankers than Australians I swear.

Reply to Tom Storm According to reports, they can’t stand each other. I think Joyce passes the pub test for ‘despicable’ in a lot of people’s eyes (mine included).

Quoting Wayfarer

According to reports, they can’t stand each other. I think Joyce passes the pub test for ‘despicable’ in a lot of people’s eyes (mine included).

Doesn't matter if they hate each other. That's often par for the course (even within parties). BJ's a larger than life, larrikin original (even if he is a corporate shill and knob jockey) and that's all that seems to matter.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-57562685

Australia's government has lashed out after a United Nations report claimed it had not done enough to protect the Great Barrier Reef from climate change.UN body Unesco said the reef should be put on a list of World Heritage Sites that are "in danger" due to the damage it has suffered. Key targets on improving water quality had not been met, it said.

Government who has done all it can to ensure the destruction of the reef is mad that they are being called out for having done all it can to ensure the destruction of the reef.

Reply to StreetlightX

The spin is that UNESCO is being manipulated by the Chinese.

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/great-barrier-reef-dragged-into-row-with-china-20210622-p58332

On another topic, isn't it wonderful to see the National Party doing so much to support Scotty in reassuring women that they have their best interests at heart?

Operation COVID Shield

It's all good; we've given it a new spin.

Best part is this link, on the page in which the stated goal is "Building public confidence through clear and consistent messaging."


Find the latest data on Australia's vaccine rollout.

It asks for a login without any way to create one.

Reply to Banno This thread is titled as it is for an excellent reason.

Reply to StreetlightX Funny, that.

oops

Scotty is keeping very quite at the moment...

Keep an eye out for the next bit of spin.

Source

Reply to Banno Too busy accomodating Joyce as he backstabs his farmer constituency.

Barnaby Joyce fined $200 for not wearing mask in breach of COVID-19 health orders

No words.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/morrison-funded-27-car-parks-just-one-day-before-he-called-the-election-20210629-p585c2.html

Pork-barelling on an industrial scale. This kind of schtick is the most blatantly cynical self-dealing that this government has been caught doing.

Reply to Wayfarer See, this is why we don't need a Federal ICAC; it'd be flat out trying to keep up with political corruption. Can't have that.

Reply to Wayfarer jfc

https://reneweconomy.com.au/australia-ranked-dead-last-in-world-for-climate-action-in-latest-un-report/

Australia has been ranked dead last for climate action in the latest Sustainable Development Report, which assesses the progress of countries towards achieving the Sustainable Development Goals. In the latest edition of the report, produced by the UN-backed Sustainable Development Solutions Network, Australia received the lowest score awarded to any of the 193 members of the United Nations for the level of climate action, a withering repudiation of the Coalition government’s climate efforts.

I don't think the SDG's really have much to do with climate change, and I doubt Australia has much of a problem with:

" (1) No Poverty, (2) Zero Hunger, (3) Good Health and Well-being, (4) Quality Education, (5) Gender Equality, (6) Clean Water and Sanitation, (7) Affordable and Clean Energy, (8) Decent Work and Economic Growth, (9) Industry, Innovation and Infrastructure, (10) Reducing Inequality, (11) Sustainable Cities and Communities, (12) Responsible Consumption and Production, (13) Climate Action, (14) Life Below Water, (15) Life On Land, (16) Peace, Justice, and Strong Institutions, (17) Partnerships for the Goals. ".

If Australia is rated low, it sounds like UN bullshit to me.

Reply to frank SDG 13 is Climate Action. I had a look a the spreadsheet; the main culprit is exported CO2 emissions - gas and coal. Couldn't find anything that placed Australia dead last... only in the bottom three or four.

Hey, on the bright side, Australia is near the top, if not first, in exporting CO2!

Quoting Banno

Hey, on the bright side, Australia is near the top, if not first, in exporting CO2!

Which they couldn't do without Japan and India. Dealing with climate change is a global problem.

Quoting frank

Which they couldn't do without Japan and India.

Oh, not Japan and India - small players. We provide the raw material for the empty cites of China.

Quoting Banno

Oh, not Japan and India - small players. We provide the raw material for the empty cites of China.

Oh. They have empty cities?

Reply to frank ooo lots. Fifty or so.

Reply to Banno That's weird

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-27/china-ghost-cities-show-growth-driven-by-debt/9912186

Reply to Banno
This year China is buying all our Eastern Red cedars. I hope it's not going to a ghost city. I need some.

After twenty months, we have a plan to make a plan...

The missing 'magic numbers' in Morrison's COVID strategy are a stark reminder of our bungled vaccine rollout

In the prime ministerial pandemic lexicon — which has included "proportionate measures", "escalating threats", "flattening the curve", "targeted, measured and scaleable plans", "the other side" , "the road out", "uncharted territory", "fighting the virus and winning", "getting Australians home by Christmas", and of course "national vaccination allocation horizons" — the idea of "magic numbers" did seem to reflect the zeitgeist of where the Prime Minister, if not the rest of us, finds himself now.

It was better when he was in hiding.

Blistering OP from Rudd this morning, on Greg Hunt's failures, which, now he spells them out, are abundantly obvious. Not that it will be heeded.

Reply to Wayfarer

Around Morrison’s cabinet table sits: Michaelia Cash, who refused to fully cooperate with police investigating leaks from her office; Angus Taylor, who was caught trading in a falsified annual report; Bridget McKenzie, the architect of sports rorts; Alan Tudge, whose car park rorts put McKenzie to shame; Linda Reynolds, who mishandled an alleged rape in her office, then called the complainant a lying cow; Peter Dutton, another pork-barreller who wouldn’t let Border Force officials appear at the Ruby Princess inquiry; Christian Porter, who resisted an inquiry to establish that he was fit and proper for ministerial office; and the list goes on.

Thanks for the link.

Reply to Banno Wouldn't surprise me if it was co-authored by Malcolm, but if so he's keeping shtum. :-)

Reply to Wayfarer Reply to Banno The most terrifying aspect of this is that this kind of looking-out-for-each-other's-corruption is that it becomes structural - if everyone is compromised, it only encourages more. Corruption is named so because it spreads, radiates outward. It's so fucked.

Reply to StreetlightX The concern I have is apathy. It seems not to matter to so many folk. Or it's excused with "the other side is just as bad".

We can, and have, done so much better with our past leaders.

Reply to Banno I'm not sure it's apathy so much as cowardice. Australian national culture is generally one of petty minded fear of losing the little we think we have, and change of any kind is anathema to it. We're a village of supplicants pretending to be a country, and it shows. The control of the press by corporate power has not helped.

Reply to StreetlightX Cuttingly accurate; but alternately and as well, there's a habit of obsequiousness, together with a pretence of disrespect for authority.


I blame the Celts.

There's a distinct lack of leadership candidates on the scene. When Kevin Rudd first appeared, for the first time in generations there seemed to be an exciting potential leader. (Didn't turn out well.) In hindsight, Julia Gillard was really pretty good despite numerous own-goals. But since then it's been a wasteland, and I can't see Albo steering the ship of state anytime in the future.

Quoting Wayfarer

I can't see Albo steering the ship of state anytime in the future.

Out of curiosity, why not?

Reply to StreetlightX I don't think he has broad electoral appeal, his approval ratings are pretty dreadful. And I think the Labor team looks tired and too familiar - they've been there a long time. For me, Mark Butler comes across well, Plibesek could be leader, but doesn't want to be. And they're copping friendly fire from Fitzgibbon.

I think this year has reflected terribly on Morrison, but I still can't see him losing the next election. As you are saying, and for whatever reason, people will grumble about it, but there doesn't seem a real appetite for change.

Reply to Wayfarer I agree. Scotty will probably get in again. Electoral apathy, the Murdoch press and Labor's lack of skill will do the job. Unless there is something new in the mix. Albo is pretty unexciting.

Then there is nothing for it; we must all join the Liberal Party. If they are going to stay in power, the only option is to change their policies.

Reply to Banno That's so crazy it might just work!

Reply to Tom Storm

Have a listen to this interview:

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/latenightlive/canberra-capers-with-laura-tingle/13432428

Depressing stuff.

The Liberal Party is a corrupt conservative party. Labour is ineffectual, and the Greens will not receive sufficient votes to form government.

So joining the Liberals with the aim of dragging them to the left seems the only reasonable option.

Reply to Banno Disgraceful.

Do you think Australians are especially apathetic when it comes to politics?

Reply to Tom Storm

Low voter turnout was the nominal reason for the introduction of compulsory voting.

Reply to Banno As memory serves, Obama said if there was just one thing he would take from Australia it would be compulsory voting.

We are also gobsmacked at the commentary pointing out that while the PM could make 55 phone-calls to world leaders to get Mathias Cormann elected as boss of the OECD, he couldn’t make a single one to the international boss of Pfizer to get more vaccines for us.

:rage:

SMH

He hasn't even got the marketing right this time. An ad that tells folk to be afraid while at the same time thy are unable to get vaccinated.

This should blow up in his face.

Reply to Banno Don't worry, Coal won't hurt you!

Oh my god, I love Scotty so much! He's never done anything! I mean it, he hasn't actually done anything- positive at least.

Morrison and Coalition sink in Newspoll on the back of rollout shambles

Morrison retains a solid lead over Albanese as better PM – 51-33%

:roll:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jul/19/former-nsw-labor-ministers-eddie-obeid-and-ian-macdonald-found-guilty-of-corruption-charges

Some good news!:

The former NSW Labor ministers Eddie Obeid and Ian Macdonald, and Obeid’s son Moses Obeid, have been found guilty of conspiracy to wilfully commit misconduct in public office over the allocation of coal licences in New South Wales in 2008. Obeid, 77, and his son Moses, 51, were accused of conspiring with Macdonald, 72, then the minister responsible for mineral resources, to grant a lucrative coal exploration licence over Obeid’s family farm, Cherrydale Park, in the Bylong Valley. Justice Elizabeth Fullerton, who presided over the case without a jury, heard from 38 witnesses in the year-long trial.

Fullerton found that a conspiracy to ensure a mining licence was granted over Obeid’s property was proved beyond reasonable doubt. She found there was evidence that Moses Obeid had formed an agreement some time before May 2008 with Macdonald, and that Macdonald had then proceeded as minister for mineral resources to take steps to ensure that a mining exploration licence was granted covering Cherrydale Park. In what is likely to become the leading case on criminal conspiracy in NSW, Fullerton found that the conspiracy was proved because Macdonald had agreed “to do what he could in connection with the granting of a licence at Mt Penny and to further the economic interests of the Obeids”.

Reply to Banno Australians are cooowaaarddssss.

Quoting Banno

Then there is nothing for it; we must all join the Liberal Party. If they are going to stay in power, the only option is to change their policies.

Do you really believe change of policy in the Liberal party can come from the bottom and work it's way up, or that any individual can work their way up to gain power without becoming corrupted by the culture?

God bloody dammit Jordies make a point that I totally missed and now I'm even more mad - we literally have a whole architecture in place to do vaccines for the flu shot every year which has been running for ages now, and instead of using that tried and true mechanism of public health this fucking government privatized the rollout. Not just in the sense of waiting for AZ or UQ to manufacture vaccines here - which they also did - but the actual logistics of rollout itself. FFFAAARRRrkrrrkkkkkkkkksdfsd this fuckinggg governmsdfgndasigdttshit.

A dissection of Liberal incompetence:

We’re paying companies millions to roll out COVID vaccines. But we’re not getting enough bang for our buck

The independent review of the pubic service completed in 2019 says:

...the APS is not performing at its best today and it is not ready for the big changes and challenges that Australia will face between now and 2030.

This prior to Covid.

The first rule of any project tis make sure you use people who have done the same thing before. Instead of making us of the existing pharmaceutical distribution chan, the Feds tried to build a new one from scratch. Because the Public Service has been reduced to bare bones, they were not up to the task even of providing oversight... a word who's meaning has changed in interesting ways over the last twenty years, along with the demise of effective leadership.

Private contractors received $156m to vaccinate the most at-risk... that went well, didn't it.

Reply to Banno
I think NY did that too, and it was a fiasco. My state used the county health departments with assistance from the National Guard, so mostly public, with some volunteers to help.

Australia has a population and economy about the size of Texas, but it's scattered around the edges of a huge landmass. That's both a challenge and an advantage?

Reply to frank We already deal effectively with distance, so that's wasn't the issue. The Government is broken. The Liberal Party is a mismatch of conservatives and liberals proper - it is as if the one party tried to contain both Democrats and Republicans - it's only unifying feature is dogmatic worship of a fetishised notion of free enterprise, with the result that all decisions are based on ideology and not fact.

Quoting Banno

it's only unifying feature is dogmatic worship of a fetishised notion of free enterprise,

Awarding contracts can be a good way to get things done. It can definitely backfire, but public operations can also fail spectacularly.

Both methods are subject to corruption. There should be procedures for awarding contracts, like with sealed bids. Does Australia do that?

Quoting frank

Both methods are subject to corruption.

The states have independent bodies that can investigate public corruption in the civil service and amongst politicians. We need one at Federal level, but for some reason the incumbents don't see it as a priority...

Quoting Banno

but for some reason the incumbents don't see it as a priority...

Because they're corrupt.

Reply to frank You might say that. I couldn't possibly comment.

Quoting Banno

You might say that. I couldn't possibly comment.

Did you see the Netflix version of that? It was pretty good.

I've been so put off by so much of the wider discourse putting down the recent lockdown protests here as just being a bunch of idiots. They were idiots, but they were not just that. This guy really articulates it well:



So much utterly misdirected anger at those protests.

Reply to StreetlightX Well put.

Reply to StreetlightX

Keep in mind that their actions put others directly at risk.

There almost certainly would have been folk there who have Covid.

They were unmasked, allowing the virus to spread.

While both state and feds share responsibility for the frustration expressed, that is insufficient to justify the protests.

Freedom to protest does not extend to putting others in danger.

A Grattan Institute report of interested. Lack of leadership at Federal level is demonstrable.

Gridlock: removing barriers to policy reform

Analysis of a large sample of proposed policy reforms over the past decade shows that unpopularity is now an insuperable obstacle to reform... Australia could break the gridlock in policy reform by increasing the expertise and independence of the public service, reducing the number of ministerial advisers closely tied to political parties and making them more accountable, tightening controls over political donations, campaign finance, lobbying, and post-politics careers, and setting up a federal anti-corruption commission with teeth to ensure that the rules of the system are followed.

The lack of capacity at Federal level is having real, deleterious results at a local level.

Have a listen to the podcast.

Quoting Banno

The lack of capacity at Federal level is having real, deleterious results at a local level.

Would it be that this were a bug, rather than a feature, of liberal rule.

Quoting StreetlightX

liberal

But see the recent backflip of the ALP.

negative gearing and capital gains tax

Getting rid of good policy. John Daley's point is that inaction is now endemic, the norm in politics, and will stay there at least until cross-benchers force a corruption commission.

Reply to Banno Fair enough. Am listening to the podcast now.

Quoting StreetlightX

Am listening to the podcast now.

A verdict?

Reply to Banno It was very good. But I was dissatisfied in that they did not attempt - and this was in truth likely beyond the scope of the report which they were discussing - to diagnose why this institutional timidity has set in. They discuss that it has set in - significant and important in itself, and the major conclusion of the study - and propose policy changes to reign in some of the most egregious aspects of what's going on - ICAC, donation transparency, more independence to the bureaucracy and so on. I really liked the bit where they talk about where possibilities of change might come from: independent parties forcing the hands of the majors (although our selection of independents is not particularly inspiring...).

But I feel like there's a changed media and communication environment that actually accounts for the timidity of governments insofar as they are alot more reactive (in a short term, polls-driven way) to next-day press releases and 24 hour news cycles in a way that they weren't before. I don't know that this is the only reason, but isolating reasons why governments have become so leadership averse would be the next important step in examining this phenomenon. Old mate Kevin is definitely on to something, I think, when he blames Murdoch for absolutely ruining the feedback process of governments and their constituents. dk, maybe the actual report does have more on that and they just didn't have time to get into it in the podcast.

Reply to StreetlightX

PDF of the report:
https://grattan.edu.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Gridlock-Grattan-Report.pdf

Still reading it.

Quoting StreetlightX

...Murdoch...

Popular opinion ranked highest, then shibboleths, then vested interests. Presumably the influence of Murdoch is the capacity to form popular opinion. It would be an interesting study. See box 1, p. 28. And 4.32

Quoting Banno

Presumably the influence of Murdoch is the capacity to form popular opinion.

Yeah, exactly. 'Popular opinion' ought not to be treated as a given: it is itself formed, the result of a process. The report talks of the need for sustained efforts to forge consensus, but I think a good, hard look at our primary means of that consensus making - corporate owned media with vested interests! - is needed.

Scott Morrison is stuck

Reply to Banno Opening sentence is a zinger.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/shocking-and-disturbing-explosive-report-claims-corruption-and-branch-bombing-has-left-the-wa-liberals-a-political-wasteland-20210827-p58mlk.html

"Unethical, underhanded and corrupt practices have left the Western Australian Liberal Party a penniless ‘political wasteland’ on the verge of ‘extinction’ with disaffected members considering starting a new conservative party, according to a report released on Saturday by the WA Liberal Party.

These are just some findings of the explosive review released at the party’s state council meeting which looks into its inner workings in the lead up to the WA Liberal’s humiliating 2021 election loss."

[I]Just[/i] the WA libs?

Barnaby Joyce declares he won’t be ‘bullied’ on climate science

Scotty must be so pleased to have such a free thinker as his deputy.

Joyce, who was reinstated as leader of the Nationals in June, likened basic questions about climate science to a baptism where parents were required to “denounce Satan and all his works and deeds”.

The group Farmers for climate action represents approximately 6000 farmers from across Australia, and has 22, 000 members.

More than the National Party.

A quick trip home to see the kids in Sydney. Then back to Canberra for work.

The rules do not apply to him. They are for other people.

Why not bring your kids to Canberra? Other folk move their family because of their work.

Dutton hasn't moved past the developmental stage when you recognize social cues instead of mimicry:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/newsfighterspod/status/1438246997845331969[/tweet]

Quoting StreetlightX

Dutton hasn't moved past the developmental stage when you recognize social cues instead of mimicry:

:up:

Nuclear submarines.

This is going to be embarrassing.

A dear friend was an engineer on the Collins class. At table he would regale us with tales of incompetence. Very soon before the launch of HMAS Collins, it was found that the main hatch would not seal. It was removed and replaced with a piece of plywood, suitable painted, for the ceremony.

Laura Tingle wasn't so cynical, once. She's learned a lot.

So many long-standing shibboleths have been demolished in the past few days: starting with the arguments we have heard for years about why we "couldn't" have nuclear submarines. This was based on the "given" that it would require onshore nuclear expertise and nuclear power — and that we didn't want to ever go as far as having US missiles based in Australia.

And so:

Based on the current stated policy, we will be utterly reliant on the Americans and British to keep our boats afloat.

Which works for a government that has striped the pubic service to a point of such ineptitude that they could not manage the purchase of a few vials of vaccine without bringing in a solder with not expertise in health.

It's not going to end well.

But on the bright side, they've really pissed off the French.

Grattan on Friday: Porter’s funding from a ‘blind trust’ is an integrity test for Morrison

How this plays out is an integrity test for Morrison. Porter needs to leave the ministry or (taking the most lenient view of the situation) immediately have the trust repay all the money to those anonymous benefactors.

Indeed, Porter shouldn’t have to wait to be told by the PM – he should recognise this himself.

Regardless of the departmental advice to Morrison, acceptance of anonymous donations fails the standards of propriety that we should expect from MPs, and certainly from ministers.

Here's what will happen: A few weeks from now someone will ask what the advice to the PM was; there will be a bit of shuffling of feet, and then on the next Friday afternoon a quite acknowledgement that Porter's actions have been ignored.

Happy to be proved wrong.

Reply to Banno Hartcher pointed out that as a consequence of all this faffing about, Australia will have exactly the same submarine capacity in 2030 as it had in 1990.

My fav article yet on the whole thing:

China Panics After Learning They’ve Only Got 25 Years Until Australia Gets 8 New Submarines

According to Scotty From Marketing’s newest announcement aimed at drowning out the news that Christian Porter MP is paying his legal fees through a blind trust that has been topped up with millions of dollars by a faceless stranger who he has never met, Australia is getting eight cool new submarines!

Yesterday it was announced that several cabinet Ministers were given special border exemptions to meet in Canberra and begin nutting out this new deal that not one voter asked for or cares about.

According to these new announcement, Australia, the UK and US have formed a new security partnership named AUKUS – a new acronym that President Joe Biden doesn’t seem to know too much about considering the fact that he couldn’t even remember the Australian Prime Minister’s name in a press conference earlier today.

As a first initiative, AUKUS will build nuclear submarines for Australia’s fleet. There will be eight of them. They will not have nuclear weapons, they will just be nuclear-powered, which in itself is a pretty scary responsibility for a government that can’t manage to run a services website that doesn’t crash under the mildest web traffic.

In the 'post-American world', has Australia backed the right global superpower?

Stan Grant disappointed at another lost opportunity.

Reply to Banno yeah right.

America does not drive the global economy, China does. China will usurp the US outright as the world's biggest economy by the end of the decade.

And, fuck dissenters - all those twerps in Hong Kong, all those anonymous Uighers who should know better. Get on board, but be ready to shut up.

Reply to Wayfarer I don't think he is sugesting this is a good thing....

Christian Porter has resigned from Scott Morrison's ministry.

Quoting Banno

Happy to be proved wrong.

Happy now.

Expect him back in a subsequent reshuffle.

Reply to Banno Ambassadorship to France. The Liberal punishment.

Reply to StreetlightX Perfect fit. He can go punce about and have no one pay him any attention at all.

Reply to Banno Yes, reading further into it, Stan Grant does make those points.

Someone on the ABC was saying that by about mid-century all submarines will be constantly tracked by thermal-imaging satellites, so the advantage provided by being underwater....well, evaporates......

Reply to Wayfarer ...but with global warming, the sea will be deeper...?

Coal fired submarines.

Barnaby Joyce defends Christian Porter's decision to remain in Parliament after resigning from Cabinet

I can not say how much it gladdens my heart to have out nation in the hands of people of such extraordinary moral recited.

I really cannot.

Especially with Porter’s guilt having been presumed beyond all reasonable argument.

Reply to Wayfarer Well, yes, I do tend to a prejudice against entitled prats.

Reply to Banno Important that the law only works for those deemed worthy.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10086479/American-anti-vaxxers-faith-groups-manipulating-vulnerable-Aussies-not-jabbed.html

I know it's the DM but to think that we threw our hat in with this awful country. Australians like to fear monger about the threat of China - frankly it's Americans who are fatal to our well being. To think there was a whole cadre of them vying to 'save us' while standing atop of the dead bodies of 700,000 of their own citizens.

Reply to StreetlightX

Face it, the human race is incredibly weird.

Reply to frank Some more than others.

Quoting StreetlightX

But I feel like there's a changed media and communication environment that actually accounts for the timidity of governments insofar as they are alot more reactive (in a short term, polls-driven way) to next-day press releases and 24 hour news cycles in a way that they weren't before. I don't know that this is the only reason, but isolating reasons why governments have become so leadership averse would be the next important step in examining this phenomenon. Old mate Kevin is definitely on to something, I think, when he blames Murdoch for absolutely ruining the feedback process of governments and their constituents. dk, maybe the actual report does have more on that and they just didn't have time to get into it in the podcast.

Heard along a grapevine that the influence of Murdoch in German politics is noticeable on a county by county basis - does your constituency tend to consume Murdoch media? Then PR will be a dumpster fire. Anecdotal recount of an anecdote, though. Guess it's everywhere.

Quoting fdrake

does your constituency tend to consume Murdoch media?

We have two major media conglomerates that have an effective duopoly on the press in Australia. Murdoch is one of them, and by far the largest one. In our regional areas, Murdoch owns all the newspapers. His online presence is enormous too, owning the most visited Australian new site (news.com.au). Not to mention skynews.com.au, which the Youtube algorithm agressively pushes. When our PM visited the US earlier this year, one of his stops was to Murdoch to kiss the ring.

The other half of the duopoly, Nine, is run by a former treasurer of the existing government, the same one that basically follows Murdoch's lead like a hurt puppy. Just this year, our government pushed through legislation to force social media companies (read: Facebook) to pay 'local' media for their users even *linking* to their content. Indie media miss out on any of it.

The two (relatively popular) public broadcasters, the ABC and SBS, and consistently under attack for being too left leaning, despite the fact that they are both ensconsed solidly in the middle, and have had their funds constantly cut by the current government. Our media landscape is a disaster.

Quoting StreetlightX

Our media landscape is a disaster.

Yep - has been for years. I wonder when Rupert dies (I will throw a small party) if his company will continue to fuck the world with Lachlan in charge. Or will it just crumble and powder like an excavated Egyptian mummy opened up on a Cairo street?

Here's a plan:

• "Further technological breakthroughs": 15%
• "Global Technology Trends": 15%
• Buying emissions from someone else: 20%

Fifty percent wishful thinking? Or relying prayer?

Non-binding, of course.

And by 2050, not 2030.

Technology is s wonderful thing. Scotty from marketing is planning to power his spin with hydrogen instead of hot air.

Reply to Banno Just as well the effort doesn't depend solely on him. NSW and Victoria are doing a lot more that he is.

Reply to Banno

Ugh, I thought all ya blokes dawnunda we’re all wise and shit. Turns out you’re cunts like everyone else on the planet.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/oct/26/voter-identification-to-be-compulsory-under-morrison-government-proposal?

This is like my worst fears coming through - Morrison aping American anti-democratic bullshit. The last thing we need to to become anything close to the shitfuckery that is the American asylum. What a malignant fucking cancer on the world. Fuck the US, and fuck Scott Morrison.

And of course it's inspired by our resident racist piece of shit MP, Hanson:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/oct/28/i-understand-the-need-centre-alliance-could-offer-crucial-support-for-coalitions-controversial-voter-id-laws

In other, absolutely glorious news:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SquizzSTK/status/1453585773341544455[/tweet]

No wonder they want to water down voting.

By Annabel Crabb

But the Morrison doctrine on climate reveals a new path: Outline what you oppose, then get elected, then shimmy backwards under sniper fire from your own side — all the while denying you're shifting at all — then calmly declare victory, claiming credit for a bunch of stuff you opposed all along.

Morrison's climate 'plan' reveals a spectacular new model of political leadership in Australia

Macron went to the point here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/qk1ezu/macaron_telling_it_like_it_is/

Would it be fair to say that some people there are embarrassed or not really?

Reply to Manuel It is not clear that our government is capable of embarrasment.

Reply to StreetlightX Indeed:

Acting Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce said Mr Macron needed to "move on".

*

Reply to Manuel

Reply to StreetlightX Reply to Banno

The government, sure. But what about the voters, or is this deal not very relevant to them?

After all, you still get the submarines...

Quoting Manuel

After all, you still get the submarines...

You think? I doubt anyone here has high expectations. Second hand rent-a-sub

Morrison’s planned nuclear-powered subs come without any estimated cost (except they’ll be more expensive than the French ones); or precise timetable (except they won’t be available for a couple of decades); or decision about which boat will be chosen (except it will be American or British), or firm indication of how much building will be done in Australia (except that it won’t be all of it and possibly only a modest amount).

https://theconversation.com/view-from-the-hill-for-morrison-aukus-is-all-about-the-deal-never-mind-the-niceties-168248

You might begin to understand why this thread is called "Scotty from Marketing".

:blush:

Reply to Banno

Yeah, found out about the nickname in the Australia subreddit.

I had heard that the original French submarines weren't nuclear powered, but I haven't gone on to verify.

Well with ANZUS in the way, the so called "threat of China", countries just do what the US says, with very few exceptions. France'll just have to be embarrassed worldwide and mad at Australia, but it is an insult to the French, no doubt.

Hope your next PM will get a better nickname, at least. :joke:

Quoting Manuel

I had heard that the original French submarines weren't nuclear powered, but I haven't gone on to verify.

The French subs were nuclear powered, but Australia was paying to have the design modified for nonnuclear. Then we changed to nuclear. Look, it just doesn't make sense. We all know that.

Quoting Manuel

Hope your next PM will get a better nickname, at least. :joke:

"Albo", perhaps...?

Quoting Banno

"Albo", perhaps...?

I've got to read a good book by some learned reporter or scholar on Australian politics, I used to know a decent amount, for somebody who's very far away from Australia, but finds it fascinating.

I'm seeing that Labour isn't doing that well in the polls. Yet I'm seeing lots of hate for Scotty, politics all over the world is quite messed up these days, I don't get the situation over there.

Reply to Manuel I think, overall, and at risk of getting flamed, politics is not as broken in Australia as it is in the USA. I'm a fairly middle-of-the-road voter, generally have leaned Labor although I am also drawn to some aspects of the liberal (as distinct from conservative) elements of the other party. But I think Morrison is dissappointingly shallow. He's a media performer, comes across as the dinky-di Aussie bloke, but if you waded through his deepest thoughts you wouldn't get your feet wet.

The Labor Party has a real lack of leadership talent, the current leader is ernest and honest as the day is long, but nobody can see him winning the prize, although I could be wrong. The thing is, if the country comes out of the COVID blocks firing, this will favour the Government.

The best PM we've had in my recent lifetime was Julia Gillard in my opinion - Labor, lead from 2010-13, managed to steer many ground-breaking pieces of legislation from the position of a minority Government while coping with absolutely despicable treatment from the Murdoch press and the medievalist then-opposition leader (who was to become the worst PM in Australian history in my memory although again I might be wrong).

Morrison's cabinet are resoundingly mediocre in most ways, although I have to say I think overall they have to be given some credit for the economic and health management of the COVID-19 crisis. But they're definitely weak on environmental management and it is costing them. The aforementioned medieval PM lost his seat in the last election to a canny independent who ran on a Climate Change bill and who is continuing to stick it to them. There might be quite a bit more of that.

Quoting Manuel

The government, sure. But what about the voters,

So far the voters have proven themselves cowards, although they are largely kept in their cowardice by a massive propaganda apparatus which works in direct cahoots with the shameless government. Australians are by and large hostage to their own comforts - particularly houses - even as the conditions which maintain them are being eaten through every passing minute. I think anyone who cares about our international representation does feel embarassed, but I don't know how many people that is.

It's not even like the French deal was any good to begin with. In fact it was very likely the fruit of pure corruption, with a lobbying firm of ex-government operatives having pushed through the deal in the first place:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-11/scott-morrisons-friend-hired-by-french-during-submarine-talks/10797920

The lastest drama is just another episode in an already long-standing history of the government out to convenience, and frankly, pay their friends with taxpayer money as and when it suits them. It's a debacle from A-Z. It certainly has nothing to do with the needs or wants of the Australian people.

????

Quoting StreetlightX

It's not even like the French deal was any good to begin with. In fact it was very likely the fruit of pure corruption,

I haven't seen any evidence of that, although Naval Group has a sulfurous history elsewhere.

The Franco-Australian submarine deal was very big, which was probably part of the problem. A tranche approach maybe could have worked... Note that the only precedent of a big arm deal between France and Australia, the Mirages bought in the 60s, was made in several tranches, and those deals also faced a lot of headwind from our mutual American friends... In the end, Australian pilots liked their Mirages enough that they nicknamed them "the Miracles".

Quoting Olivier5

I haven't seen any evidence of that,

True. Should have prefaced that with the fact that I take it as axiomatic that anything the liberals do is as either backscratching for their mates or angling for votes.

Quoting StreetlightX

I take it as axiomatic that anything the liberals do is as either backscratching for their mates or angling for votes.

The advantage being that then you don't need to think seriously about it?

I've been looking for allegations of corruption because such things do tend to happen in mega arm deals, but also because the size of the order originally surprised me. Why did Australia concluded it needed 8 barracudas when the French themselves have ordered only 6, the same number as the previous Rubis class of submarines? These beasts are costly and powerful. If France -- with a larger economy and broader military engagements than Australia -- needs or can afford 6, how come Australia needs or can afford 8?

As said, I haven't found allegations of improprieties in the original deal.

Quoting Olivier5

The advantage being that then you don't need to think seriously about it?

Call it inductive reasoning. And your questions are good - but don't ever expect to get them answered.

Reply to Wayfarer

I remember her and liked her too, seemed to be doing the right things. Shame she still isn't in power, or at least remained in office for a longer period of time. Sure, politics in Australia cannot be as bad as it is in other parts of the world. Yep, my impression is that Australia has done decently well with COVID.

Reply to StreetlightX

Yeah. It's a problem with the media is owned by so few people, especially those under a Murdoch ideology. I don't know who'd want to attack Australia such that it would need nukes. Military spending, such as it is, is a waste of money.

Reply to Olivier5

https://www.crikey.com.au/2021/09/16/christopher-pyne-submarine-deal-remember/

I knew there was something I was forgetting. They signed the French sub deal to secure a sub facility in South Australia with the promise of jobs, for one of their MPs. It wasn't corruption - well, I'm not ruling it out - it was vote chasing. I went with the wrong option of the two I mentioned. Can't go wrong with the axiom.

That same MP of course got a consultant role with a defense contractor after quitting politics.

--

Also the absolute drubbing that Morrison seems to be getting for his car crash apperance overseas is so, so heartening. I was worried it was just in my circles, but it seems like not even the mainstream press can ignore the fact that world leaders are actively treating that malignant fucking clown for the two-bit operator he is. His spit-the-dummy response to Macron - which someone aptly described as "throwing Australia in front of the bullet meant for him" - is yet another wonderful misstep too.

https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/morrison-government-humiliates-australia-at-g20,15694

‘I don’t think, I know’ – what makes Macron’s comments about Morrison so extraordinary and so worrying

Macron also took these further steps to ensure his message did not get lost in translation:

• He made the comments in English. The French President speaks English but usually uses French, the language of the republic he represents. Using English was a way of speaking to Australians directly, rather than having a voiceover doing a translation from the French.
• He spoke to the media of a foreign country – usually a world leader would not engage informally with media from other countries. This is done formally, at joint press conferences.
• He did not use “diplo-speak”. Macron is a highly educated, polished politician who knows how to choose his words and send subtle messages. This message was deliberately blunt.

F'ing Probyn over there, stirring up trouble and embarrasing the govenment, just for a good soundbyte on the 7:00pm news.

Reply to Manuel Here's Michelle Grattan. She's been in the press gallery since forever, working for the Canberra Timse, Fin review and The Age. She's now a Prof at the Uni of Canberra. She's long been considerately and astutely in the centre of Australian politics.

She asks "How will Macron’s ‘pants on fire’ claim about Morrison play in the focus groups?"

And that sums up the state of Australian politics. It's about the spin. Nothing else.

Reply to Banno

Great article.

These politicians are of low quality recently. Maybe it's a bias, but what they're saying is pretty embarrassing, in this case, the Australian government. Welcome to the club. :cool:

We did see how Andrew Probyn set that up? Asking the question, 'so, do you think Scott Morrison lied?' If it had been an exchange in court, it would be disallowed as 'leading the witness'. What's Macron going to say to that? His country is furious, probably rightly, is he going to say, 'oh, no, Morrison is as pure as the driven snow'. So he answers, yes of course he lied. There's supposed to be something going on about something...yeah, that's right, climate or something .....now the entire Australian media is just on about this one exchange. Sometimes, the press is just so utterly infuriating.

Reply to Wayfarer

Yes, but, notice he spoke in English to the press, he could have left had he wanted to. Or said "no comment." Yeah, the press is a nightmare, but Macron knew what he was doing, clearly. Especially in an event of this magnitude.

Quoting Wayfarer

We did see how Andrew Probyn set that up?

Reply to Manuel Yes, Macron astutely addressed the Australian people. He's not Probyn's muppet. If Probin set it up it was with Macron's full consent.

Reply to Wayfarer And should we be focused on climate? Oh, yes, indeed; but the most important issue for Australia in regard to climate is lack of leadership.

Which is exactly what Macron addressed.

SO, that little event was exactly on the mark.

Quoting Manuel

Yeah, the press is a nightmare, but Macron knew what he was doing, clearly. Especially in an event of this magnitude.

I agree. But the Australian media still gave him a free kick just to stir up trouble. There's plenty wrong with Morrison, and I sincerely hope he looses the next election, not that I think he will, but I think it was just cheap journalism. I can see why a lot of people hate the ABC when it pulls that kind of trick (even though I myself am a rusted-on audience member.)

Reply to Banno

One may not like him, but he's a capable politician. Which is a strange thing to say these days.

Quoting Wayfarer

but I think it was just cheap journalism.

I mean, sure. Not being too cynical about it, it's becoming more difficult not to find cheap journalism. Or at least there's much more bad journalism everywhere.

"I think the statements that were made questioning Australia's integrity, and the slurs that had been placed on Australia — not me, I've got broad shoulders, I can deal with that — but those slurs, I'm not going to cop sledging of Australia," Mr Morrison said.

There's the spin: it was Australia's integrity that was slandered, not Scotty's.

Sickening.

Quoting StreetlightX

vote chasing

There will be 'pork' in most of these big arm deals and surely in ANKUS as well.

Reply to Olivier5 Pig farms, likely. Also, I should have said: vote rewarding.

Reply to StreetlightX The biggest issue I saw in that French deal was the 'made in Australia' requirement, which added much to the price tag. Building warships requires significant infrastructure, which would have been built from scratch in Australia. Such a path would only make sense as a long term investment, ie if Australia seriously wants to kickstart a domestic ship building industry. Pending that rationale, the 'made in Australia' clause made very little sense. Other than electoral of course

Reply to Olivier5 It was a job guarantee for a South Australian electorate. It's the very thing by which the deal made sense at all.

(For those outside Australia - this is a comment on the Prime Minister, Scott Morrison (empty plan) and the Opposition Leader, Anthony Albanese, Labor (small target) and their respective approaches to climate policy.)

Morrison Government rejects key COP26 objectives hours after agreeing to them in Glasgow

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/angus-taylor-rejects-cop26-objectives-coal-net-zero-2030-target/13631082

wow what a surprise said no one ever

Hmmm. Scotty is sending police and troops to the Solomons... apparently to prevent a takeover by the Chinese, or something like that.

I smell an election.

Quoting Banno

I smell an election.

No, the man's a national hero and a savior of.... some shit.

Bridget Archer is my hero this week.

Reply to Banno Crossing the floor is hard to do. I see another independent candidate in the making.

Reply to Tom Storm And yet, moderate Liberals may be our last, best hope. The "broad church" is inherently conflicted, containing as it does the rational small "l"'s uncomfortably cohabiting with the Crazed Right*. The Crazed Right has been in the ascendency at least since Abbot, preventing any progress; not by right of numbers but simply by rhetorical force; the small "l"'s have habitually bowed to the Crazed Right for fear of exposing any of those internal conflicts.

See Grattan on Friday.


*A term carefully chosen after it's use in ceramics.


...cracked pots.

Reply to Banno Nicely put and I think that's right.

Meanwhile Defence Minister Peter Dutton screams "look over there! Look at China! Don't look at the Government!"

Quoting COVID gave us a once-in-a-lifetime natural experiment — but Scott Morrison has turned his back on the lessons

"We all travel on roads, but what is the infrastructure that has kept us alive and together through this pandemic? It is the human and social infrastructure of the care economy, one that is powered by women who are often underpaid, if they're paid at all."

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/joyce-says-assange-shouldn-t-be-extradited-to-us-20211213-p59h1j.html

Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce says Julian Assange should not be extradited to the United States to face espionage charges, calling for the WikiLeaks founder to either be put on trial in Britain or brought back to Australia. Mr Joyce said the Australian citizen, who has spent more than two years in Belmarsh Prison in south-east London, should not be forcibly sent to the US because he was not on American soil at the time of his alleged offences.

Broken clocks somethingsomething.

Reply to StreetlightX Playing to some of his base and shitting off ScoMo is surely his intent.

Is indeed an bad day when one is compelled to agree with Joyce about something.

On a more cheerful note, Albo is coming across pretty well, I saw him on 7:30 the other week and thought he knocked it out of the park (sorry, americanism, hit it for six). Morrison has done so abysmally the last few months I'm beginning to think he really could lose.

*sigh*

[tweet]https://twitter.com/barriecassidy/status/1478912191801688066[/tweet]

Re the Djokovic ban - Tennis Australia was wrong to think that his claim amounted to an exemption from the vaccination requirements - but the question should be asked as to who actually granted the visa that was then revoked? There should be egg on quite a few faces over the whole sorry episode. (I can picture the Craig Kelly selfie with Djokovic even as I write this.)

The PM should stay out of it anyway. The logical person to comment would be Potato Head. Morrison’s just having one of his (many) Ray Hadley moments.

In any case, Djokovic’s entry would be a huge propaganda victory for the anti-vaccination movement and even if he’s deported, he becomes in effect a martyr for their cause.

Quoting Wayfarer

In any case, Djokovic’s entry would be a huge propaganda victory for the anti-vaccination movement and even if he’s deported, he becomes in effect a martyr for their cause.

Not martyr enough.

I hope it hurts.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/PatsKarvelas/status/1479389559607627776[/tweet]

Something to contemplate: ..is Scott Morrison’s media strategy starting to fail?

The strategy is simple: Defend Morrison at all cost.

Combined that with the utter lack fo planning or even a bit of forethought that Laura Tingle again pointed to today.

At least Nero fiddled while his Government did nothing

Dougie isn't happy.

@Banno@Wayfarer@StreetlightX

Since ya'll from Down Under. I wanna know, do you think Djokovic's lawyers stand a chance appealing the governments decision?

To be clear, I'm not a fan of his and I think he's a clown on this - and other topics. But, that's neither here nor there. Come Monday, he should be out or what do you think?

It depends if he can back up his claim to have had Covid in December, despite not having been in isolation while positive.

Dubious.

Reply to Manuel My take is that the wheels of justice will not turn quickly enough to put him into the tournament. Already the presiding judge scolded his lawyers for requesting a speedy resolution, saying the tail ought not to be wagging the dog.

I think the guy who made the call that his exemption was valid was Craig Tiley who is head of the Australian Open. One of our news services yesterday showed excerpts from emails that he had sent to the players, saying that recent COVID infection would be considered grounds for exemption, but it was clearly contradicted both by published Australian Government guidelines and also be direct correspondence from the Australian minister of health, which they also showed. (Someone also published an excerpt on Facebook showing that Serbia requires full vaccination or a negative test result/quantantine for Australians seeking entry.) I think Tiley took a punt that Djokovic would be waved through, and lost. I'm sympathetic to him, as Djokovic is obviously the biggest drawcard and there are huge commercial interests at stake but at the end of the day it was a bad judgement call. It makes him and the whole country look bumbling and inefficient.

As for Djokovic, the thing which riles me and a lot of others are his obvious anti-vax provocations. He hangs out with Serbian alternative-health nuts and talks about spiritual healing and natural immunity. You can change the composition of water by your atttitude. And anti-vaccination is just one face of the anti-science conspiracy culture that is boiling all over the world. It shouldn't be forgotten that Djokovic organised a dissident tournament in 2020 which became a super-spreader event. Melbourne has been through four bitter and extremely controversial lockdowns and the scene of multiple anti-vaccination protests. Many Australians have been unable to enter the country for periods of 12 months. So if Djokovic got in on a wink and a nod there would have been understandable outrage about double standards.

All in all, a world-class cock-up.

Reply to Banno

What a clown. Good. People with that level of influence have more responsibility.

Reply to Wayfarer

Hmmm, interesting. I suspected something of the sort, in terms of him being a big name draw, and hoping most people would turn a blind eye to him coming in. They did not count on omicron, which really made people mad, with good reason.

I mean, surely the Victorian government looks to be somewhat culpable here and even more so the actual tournament, who would want Djokovic in, since Federer is out, and Nadal is rusty.

Sure, there's some bit of not-good looking PR in the whole situation. But I think that had Djokovic team been more thorough, they would've noticed that he did not have sufficient documentation for clearance in all levels of government. He posted in his Instagram that he had exemption like a day, or even mere hours, before taking the plane.

His wife I hear, is quite loony with alternative medicine, and his father is just crazy. Djokovic cried when had to take a minor elbow surgery, that's how much he dislikes modern medicine...

Reply to Manuel I don't know if the Victorian government has a role - border controls, passports and visas are all Federal responsibilities.

Quoting Manuel

Djokovic cried when had to take a minor elbow surgery, that's how much he dislikes modern medicine...

Oh, come on. At his level of professional athletic performance, every little detail matters. Anything that can endanger it in any way must be shunned.
Professional athletes aren't just ordinary people, doing just ordinary things.


Other than that, there is suspicion that in this whole Djokovic visa scandal, Australia is actually trying to pick a fight with Russia, given that Serbia is on good terms with Russia.


Aww, and this:

The tall poppy syndrome is a cultural phenomenon in which people hold back, criticise, or sabotage those who have or are believed to have achieved notable success in one or more aspects of life, particularly intellectual or cultural wealth — "cutting down the tall poppy".[1] It describes a draw towards mediocrity and conformity.

Commonly in Australia and New Zealand, "cutting down the tall poppy" is used to describe those who deliberately put down another for their success and achievements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome

Reply to baker

It was a relatively minor surgery. He was out partying when COVID first broke, didn't cry then when he helped infect a lot of people, as well as encouraging others through his example of not getting a vaccine.

Also seemed to be in a good mood the day after he tested positive and was around other people, without a mask.

If he has a legitimate medical issue for not doing so, fine, then state it. If not, then that's a problem given who he is.

Quoting baker

Other than that, there is suspicion that in this whole Djokovic visa scandal, Australia is actually trying to pick a fight with Russia, given that Serbia is on good terms with Russia.

Laughable.

Russia doesn't figure in Australian politics.

In Australian English, tall poppies are usually individuals who, on the basis of unwarranted self-adulation, itself a consequence of success, amassed fortune or fame, have become targets for criticism; or, less frequently, individuals who, overcome by success, amassed fortune or fame, and on the mistaken assumption that they are above the law, have engaged in unlawful behaviour, only to find that, eventually, the law catches up with them as well.

A little bit of nuance is appropriate. Our friend fits the bill nicely. Poppies are valued for their colour, not their height.

Reply to Manuel an update from today’s SMH - Craig Tiley says he received conflicting advise from Federal and State Governments regarding exemptions, which sounds quite likely. https://www.smh.com.au/sport/tennis/tiley-says-tennis-australia-was-caught-in-a-conflict-of-advice-between-state-and-commonwealth-20220109-p59mxq.html

Reply to Wayfarer

I mean, I know it's easy to criticize but shouldn't he have settled on Federal law? That's the most important one, usually.

However this plays out, I would be shocked if they let Novak play, I don't think most fans at the Open would even want him at this stage of this drama.

Reply to Manuel Reading that article, it's hard to blame Tiley. He says was advised by the State's Chief Health Officer that exemptions would be given based on prior infection (and contrary to what I said yesterday, a State Government officer). What he's saying is that he tried to get clarity about the requirements from the Federal government but got conflicting advise and no firm guidelines.

Tennis Australia and the Victorian government granted a handful of exemptions for unvaccinated players to enter the Open. The process was based on guidelines from the Commonwealth’s peak vaccine advisory body, Mr Tiley said, but tennis officials asked the federal government on two occasions in November to examine each exemption to ensure they would be accepted by federal officials at the border.

“They declined,” he said. “We asked if they could please assess our decisions. We said we’re going to need some help to make sure we’re doing the right thing. We’d be in a different situation today.”

Although the article then goes on to say:

In late November, health authorities told Tennis Australia on two occasions in writing that people who were not vaccinated and had contracted COVID-19 in the past six months would not be granted quarantine-free travel to Australia.

So, maybe, like I said, Tiley made a bet, but it was a bad bet.

All that said, I agree public opinion is overwhelmingly hostile to Djokovic.

Quoting Banno

Laughable.

Russia doesn't figure in Australian politics.

*sigh*
Do try to keep up with Scotty.

Australia is refuelling the Cold War.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AUKUS

In Australian English, tall poppies are usually individuals who, on the basis of unwarranted self-adulation, itself a consequence of success, amassed fortune or fame, have become targets for criticism; or, less frequently, individuals who, overcome by success, amassed fortune or fame, and on the mistaken assumption that they are above the law, have engaged in unlawful behaviour, only to find that, eventually, the law catches up with them as well.

A little bit of nuance is appropriate. Our friend fits the bill nicely.

If he had entered Australia as a blind passenger or by force, you'd have a point. But now you're blaming him for what was entirely the fault of the Australian government.

Poppies are valued for their colour, not their height.

Then why cut the tallest ones ...

Reply to Manuel His actual offence seems to be that now some people feel pressured by him or because of him to say some really undemocratic or otherwise unsavory things. Which they believe, of course, but which are tabooed and which they feel they should never have to say.

Reply to baker

Doesn't matter much now, to my surprise, he's playing in the Open.

Reply to baker China, not Russia.

And just to repeat:
Quoting Banno

...on the basis of unwarranted self-adulation...

Quoting Banno

...on the mistaken assumption that they are above the law...

Quoting Banno

It depends if he can back up his claim to have had Covid in December, despite not having been in isolation while positive.

Dubious.

Yes, he was either diagnosed with Covid in December or not. And being diagnosed with Covid in the past 6 months is either sufficient grounds for an exemption from having to be double vaccinated in order to be here and play in the Australian Open or not .The Australian government should have a clear policy on this and stick to it without prejudice or political motivation.

If he was not in isolation while positive that reflects poorly on his judgement and/ or character, but it is irrelevant to whether or not he is entitled to a medical exemption.

Yes I’m of the view that his medical exemption is legitimate now the details are published. Maybe Border Force overstepped their mark, maybe there was perceived political pressure. Bad look for the Government however it happened. But I will grudgingly admit I think he’s established his right to play even despite his anti-vaccination attitudes.

One thing I do notice is that Djokovic is to all intents regarded as royalty by a lot of people - Serbs in particular, but the tennis world in general. So a lot of the outrage seemed to be How could you treat the king like this? Don’t you know who you’re dealing with?!? :brow:

I don't much care about the case, except for this:

Prime Minister Scott Morrison said on Monday that Djokovic was subjected to treatment that was "the same as everyone else".

It wasn't. It was instead about privilege. Djokovic case exposes unfair treatment of refugees in Australia

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australia-commits-to-3-5-billion-tank-purchase-from-the-us-20220109-p59mub.html

"Australia has not deployed a tank in combat since the Vietnam War."

$3.5 billion on tanks.

But we "can't afford" a decent public health response.

I guess the Americanization of Australia continues apace.

The warmongering fear over China is no doubt in the background of this bullshit.

Also apologies but I couldn't care less about Djokovic and if him and the government continue slinging poo at each other forever that would be totally fine. Every word spilled on entitled man who hit ball good is a word wasted.

https://acmeanjin.org/articles/why-everything-has-gone-wrong-with-covid-19/

The capitalist class in Australia wants to get back into the world economy. Certainly, mineral exports have been going gangbusters all along, but tourism and education, two huge export industries, have been closed down for over a year and the businesses in that sector are desperate to get going again. Capital also wants access to temporary migrant workers to be restored. Because their temporary status puts them at the mercy of employers, they are often employed at illegally low wage rates. Farmers and other bosses who make major use of this scam have been complaining bitterly about labour shortages.

The success of public health authorities in suppressing COVID-19 and then eliminating it from internal circulation (apart from periodic breaches in hotel quarantine) has produced a major problem for capitalism. Keeping COVID-19 out of the community has been greatly welcomed, but has led to the population being reluctant to rejoin the global economy while the virus is rampant overseas. Business has therefore had to pressure its political representatives to come up with a solution.

The solution that the political representatives developed? Letting COVID rip. ... Criticisms of what is occurring haven’t been rare, but they have been misplaced in their direction. We are not witnessing the result of incompetence from politicians or governments, rather we are seeing the results of a thought out strategy designed and implemented by the state to benefit capital at the expense of working class lives.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-11/how-the-omicron-covid-19-outbreak-is-affecting-nsw/100749102

Spending data analysed by ANZ last week indicated economic activity plummeting to levels lower than any other time during the pandemic. "We're now facing economic situations that are worse than if we'd had an actual lockdown," said economist Jim Stanford, director of the Centre for Future Work. ... With cases expected to peak in mid-January, analysts from Mr Stanford's team have predicted up to a third of workers in NSW could be in isolation in the weeks ahead.

So here's the question. If there is, in fact, an shadow/effective lockdown which is devastating the economy anyway, what real benefit is there of not declaring an actual lockdown, or instituting/heightening public health measures?

There's only one answer: such health measures can no longer be used to benefit the friends of the government - the Harvey Normans and so on. We've already had an enormous transfer of public wealth into private hands, and because they can't get away with it again, they don't see the point in instituting any further such measures. What the liberals call 'the economy' is really 'their friends'. And their friends can't benefit this time around, so the actual economy, which they are always crowing about, can go to hell.

Quoting StreetlightX

So here's the question. If there is, in fact, an shadow/effective lockdown which is devastating the economy anyway, what real benefit is there of not declaring an actual lockdown

Declaring a lockdown now would squash whatever economic activity you have with no benefit. The coronaviruses are becoming endemic.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-12/covid-supply-chain-crisis-economy/100750814

Marxist theory of value in the ABC. Things are looking up.

Australians are getting a stark reminder about how value is actually created in an economy, and how supply chains truly work. ... Labour — human beings getting out of bed and going to work, using their brains and brawn to produce actual goods and services — is the only thing that adds value to the "free gifts" we harvest from nature. It's the only thing that puts food on supermarket shelves, cares for sick people and teaches our children.

The economy doesn't work if people can't work. So the first economic priority during a pandemic must be to keep people healthy enough to keep working, producing, delivering and buying. That some political and business leaders have, from the outset of COVID-19, consistently downplayed the economic costs of mass illness, reflects a narrow, distorted economic lens. We're now seeing the result — one of the worst public policy failures in Australia's history.

The result is an unprecedented, and preventable, economic catastrophe. This catastrophe was visited upon us by leaders — NSW Premier Dominic Perrotet and Prime Minister Scott Morrison in particular — on the grounds they were protecting the economy. Like a mafia kingpin extorting money, this is the kind of "protection" that can kill you.

Reply to StreetlightX :up: glad someone has said it!

Reply to Banno Sue him! Sue the motherfucker and motherfuckin deport him! What are you waiting for?!!

Refugee who escaped the Taliban and self-immolated on Nauru speaks from Melbourne's Park Hotel

He is being held in the Park Hotel in Melbourne's inner north, where tennis star Novak Djokovic was recently kept in immigration detention before a judge quashed the cancellation of his visa.

Keep in mind:

Prime Minister Scott Morrison said on Monday that Djokovic was subjected to treatment that was "the same as everyone else".

Quoting baker

Sue him!

Djokovic? You mistake me for someone who might care.

Quoting Banno

And just to repeat:
...on the basis of unwarranted self-adulation...
— Banno

...on the mistaken assumption that they are above the law...
— Banno

Quoting Banno

Prime Minister Scott Morrison said on Monday that Djokovic was subjected to treatment that was "the same as everyone else".

It wasn't. It was instead about privilege. Djokovic case exposes unfair treatment of refugees in Australia

But why blame Djokovic for this?

Why blame Djokovic for the privileged treatment he received?

Reply to baker You have again mistaken me for one who cares.

Poor leadership has meant that covid is now not only out of control, but unmeasurable. Here's why we have no clear idea of what is happening.

https://theconversation.com/when-will-this-covid-wave-be-over-4-numbers-to-keep-an-eye-on-and-why-174533

A government of incompetent fuckwits.

Hope...?

Coalition slumps in first poll of 2022 as voters lose confidence in Morrison’s handling of pandemic

Reply to Banno I'll have to believe it when I see it. I don't trust Australian voters atm.

https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/01/18/morrison-legacy-unable-govern/

Also this one's a good one from Crikey - and something I think that's much overlooked in the focus on Morrison as a personality. Like, it strikes me that the government doesn't function as a government because it's only actual function is to help its friends (and stay in power so it can continue doing that) - that's it. It doesn't have actual procedures of information sharing and any apparatus' of decision making; or if it does, they have been left to degrade so calls are made on an ad hoc basis:

The capacity of government has diminished. Federal MPs are now drawn from a less diverse range of backgrounds than 30 years ago. Between 40% and 50% of MPs in the current federal Parliament, depending on the party, are former political staffers; the remainder consist largely of lawyers and bankers. The dominance of former staffers affects both the life and professional experience of MPs (and the ministers drawn from their ranks), and the role of political staff. The job is no longer about providing high quality political advice to ministers — it’s simply a stepping stone into Parliament for junior party workers.

The capacity of the public service (APS) has been, by common agreement, significantly diminished. Many of its function have been handed to political donors, either via outsourcing to large consulting firms, or through corporate executives directly writing government policy. And decision-making has been shifted increasingly to ministers’ offices and their staff, who operate with virtually no public accountability and thus have less incentive to ensure good process and sound reasoning. As a consequence, high-quality public servants have decamped or been sacked for being too independent. The current generation of public service executives is the weakest in living memory, with few strong performers. And the most experienced secretary — Home Affairs’ Mike Pezzullo — presides over the most disastrously incompetent department of all.

Like, the machinery itself has rotted. It's terrible.

Quoting Banno

You have again mistaken me for one who cares.

You you you you you, you, and your you language.

Quoting StreetlightX

Like, the machinery itself has rotted. It's terrible.

When Donnie resumes power, we will have a new triumvirat: Donnie, Borrie, and Scotty. Firmly holding the entire planet in their grasp. Horrible things are in the making, while people politely watch from the sidelines.

Headline on the ABC: "planning underway to deal with teacher shortages"

It's next week.

We've known this was coming for years.

That's what I call planning.

Reply to Banno There's a motto on the rural fire brigade station right outside by back gate in respect of fire readiness: 'Planning to make a Plan is not a Plan'. :fire:

Grace Tame addresses tense meeting with Prime Minister Scott Morrison at The Lodge

What to make of being called a hypocrite by Barnaby Joyce...

He is an expert on the topic, after all.

The liar part is common knowledge, and so nothing new.

The Press Club will be interesting on Wednesday.

And they call Australia a Democracy? Do any Australians actually know how a real Democracy would actually work? No.

Again, the Liberal Party is an uneasy alliance between liberals and right-wing nuts. That alliance broke last night. Let's hope it becomes a chasm.

Government shelves religious freedom bill indefinitely, leaving election promise hanging in uncertainty

Failure to keep the troops in line to pass the religious discrimination bill. Pilloried by Grace Tame and Brittany Higgins. Insubordinate text messages. A leak from his own cabinet.

Is there going to be a spill in the Liberal leadership?

I'll give you 2 to 1 on.

But will he have the numbers?

Reply to Banno I've never quite been so terrified of a silhouette before.

No one took up the bet, but it seems Scotty has avoided a spill. For now.

He's used a tried and true Liberal strategy: national security.

He first tried the old "Labour can't manage the economy" ruse, but that didn't gain much traction. So he upped the anti, relying on the communists under the bed, feeding atti-chinees sentiment.

This while hundreds of old folk are dying alone in their rooms. "Don't look at that, look over there!"

Reply to Banno Ah yes the Irish Bible.

One wonders if Scotty's religious pretensions are just that... pretences intended to gain support both from Christins and his fellow party members, who are disproportionately Pentecostal.

Here's a commentary from a more thoughtful Christian perspective: Morrison’s Christian empathy needs to be about more than just prayer – it requires action, too. The pattern of weak leadership continues.

On the topic of corruption...

Liberal senator Concetta Fierravanti-Wells labels Scott Morrison 'a bully with no moral compass'

"He is adept at running with the foxes and hunting with the hounds, lacking the moral compass and having no conscience," she said.

"His actions conflict with his portrayal as a man of faith.

Nothing new here for us, just further evidence that the right are deserting Scotty.

How well do Bushmasters go in six foot deep mud?

Reply to Banno What do you reckon? Yay or nay to sending them over?

Reply to StreetlightX Well, he asked for them, apparently by name, so happy to oblige - gratis. But I've some concerns about transitioning a vehicle made for Australian bush to Ukrainian swamp.

SO the boy from marketing has worked through all the potential issues, settled his court cases in NSW and finally screwed himself up enough to call the date - the one we always knew it would be.

From ABC, average poll results.

I'm still too burned I won't believe he will lose until I see it.

Reply to StreetlightX Well, there is something to be said for government by bumbling, self-serving incompetence, provided you are not unemployed, burned out by a bush fire, flooded, ill, disable, or old - that is, provided you are not in immediate need of assistance from the common wealth.

Such a government stays out of the way of those who consider themselves independent, self reliant - that placated, unthinking, self-obsessed middle class rump that were taken in by the marketing last election. So the question is, how many of them are left?

Because eventually, everyone will need some of that common wealth.

Reply to Banno Perhaps, but the power of misunderstood aspiration (temporarily embarrassed millionares and all that), and what is effectively a hostage economy in housing, together with misattributed blame - immigrants, the Chinese, city elites - still leave the door open to an engineered tragedy of the commons type situation (they're all engineered). Basically, I can't count on the power of real tragedy, visceral as it may be.

https://votecompass.abc.net.au/

I'm still off the top of the progressive scale, but I've apparently moved to the right - previously I was to the left of the greens, now I am to their right, but still to the left of Labor...

Reply to StreetlightX Seems we are in agreement. Haven't understood the electorate since '75.

My sense is that the electorate is pretty sick of Morrison as PM but that it's still going to be a stretch for Labor to flip it. I think Albanese's overall game has improved hugely in the last 6 months odd, he never seemed a credible alternative to me before then but he does now.

Quoting StreetlightX

I'm still too burned I won't believe he will lose until I see it.

Agree.

Have you noticed how the best of the Labor Party seem to be in the Senate?

Wong, Keneally, Dodson, Gallagher...

yes. Find it hard to be impressed with Tony Bourke and Chris Bowen, although Mark Butler comes across OK. Massive own-goal by Albanese on Day One, if he goes on to lose it'll be his epigraph.

Reply to Wayfarer But Gallagher immediately stepped up form behind him with the correct information.

Do folk pay attention to these set pieces? Lazy journalism.

Sure. ‘Go on, ask me anything!’ Couldn’t have been scripted better if the Government had set it up,

How clever are the Solomon Islands?

They are going to be much further up the aid budget in the future.

The poor old US thought Australia had the Pacific under control... Now they have to send a diplomatic mission and pay attention

Wonder if they are re-thinking AuKUS?

Should one laugh or cry?

If this had happened under Labor the Libs would be howling blue murder.

Peter Dutton is a national security threat.

SO... putting it all together, the plan is to declare war on the Solomon Islands?

How do the major parties rate on an independent anti-corruption commission?

Solomon Islands PM Manasseh Sogavare blasts Australia over criticism of China security deal

Well worth a read. How our relationship with the Pacific has deteriorated!

The relationship between tertiary education and voting has shifted, with higher levels of education increasingly correlating with voting for Labor or the Greens. The cost is the increasing alienation of the well-educated elites who once gave the Liberals their support.

The Conversation, again, a piece by Judith Brett from La Trobe University that sums up the demise of the Liberals.

But if Frydenberg loses his seat, that leaves the Liberals with Mr Potatohead. War with the Solomon Islands looks inevitable.

The Adam Bandt interview

The Greens are where the thinking happens in Australian politics.

https://sydneyreviewofbooks.com/essay/amen-snorter-rotten-fish/

I know this is just preaching to a choir but the choir is allowed to enjoy every now and then:

For Morrison, words are just distracting noises that come out of a hole in his head. They are not connected to any logic or fact or principle. They are not constrained by anything he has said or done in the past, nor do they commit him to any future course of action. To expect otherwise is to make a categorical error. Morrison’s political career provides no grounds for believing that he will ever give a straight answer to any question, offer a cogent and consistent argument, explain himself in any way, or do anything he says he will do. He has never baulked at any hypocrisy, small or large. He speaks in order to make the very act of questioning him an exercise in futility, addressing no concrete reality beyond the immediate imperative to generate static. It is a form of anti-oratory: the rhetorical equivalent of avoiding an awkward conversation by starting up a leaf blower.

...Morrison is, according to Sheridan, ‘the prime minister for all Australians, for Australians of all faiths and none’. The only problem with this assertion is that it is demonstrably false in all but the most narrowly technical sense. Morrison has led what may well be the most indolent, nasty, bumbling, dishonest, cynical and corrupt federal government in Australian history. In his term as prime minister, he has failed to achieve a single lasting reform for the long-term betterment of Australian society. He failed even to propose one. He has proved himself, over and over again, to be an abuser of executive power, a substantive policy vacuum, and a legislator of surpassing ineptitude. His ideological stance is little better than a collection of antipathies pursued in a spirit of vindictiveness. He is as dogmatic as he is shallow. The keynotes of his time in office have been rampant cronyism, industrial scale rorting for partisan ends, the funnelling of vast sums of public money into the coffers of private vested interests, deliberate undermining of public institutions, and an evident distaste for the very thought that the federal government should use any of the vast resources at its disposal to help anyone who actually needs help.

On these points, Morrison has been absolutely consistent. The major catastrophes of bushfires, floods and the pandemic have done nothing to alter his basic stance. Faced with the spectacle of his fellow citizens in desperate need, Morrison has responded in ways that are belated, inadequate, grudging and skewed — every single time. The defining feature of his political career is that he always seeks to use his position of power to disadvantage and, in many cases, actively punish sections of the populace he regards with disfavour. These include but are not limited to academics and university students (those studying the humanities, in particular), public school students, aged-care residents, Indigenous Australians, women, people with disabilities, anyone who relies on the public health system, Muslims, the entire populations of Victoria and Western Australia, gay and transgender people, everyone who works in the arts sector, everyone who lives in a safe Labor seat, and everyone who understands that climate change is a serious problem. Hands down the most disgusting and shameful piece of maladministration in recent Australian history was the Robodebt debacle, which weaponised the federal bureaucracy against the citizens it was supposed to be serving, targeting the poorest and most vulnerable members of society. The scheme was a shakedown, carried out with such calculated menace that it drove a number of its victims to suicide. It was subsequently found to be illegal. Morrison was its chief instigator.

Reply to Streetlight So he knows Scotty, then...

Thanks.

Take a look at The real wages vs productivity gap

Australia needs to find a way of allowing real wages to grow at a faster rate than productivity, for a while — and, desirably, at the same time fostering a faster rate of growth in productivity — in order to facilitate not only faster and more sustainable economic growth, but also to restore our communal sense of prosperity.

And that's AICD. The Liberals are well out of step with their own people.

A couple of hours to go... Or three more years for this thread?

Reply to Banno :eyes:

I have good beer and [s]bad[/s] average beer set out in the fridge.

Reply to Banno I am having company over, and have splashed out on a bottle of French Champagne, which we’ll either open, or not. (I won’t mention I have it unless it’s certain. Otherwise, it’ll have to keep.)

In my electorate the ALP incumbent, for whom I voted, scraped in by <400 votes last time. But there will be many interesting contests tonight; I think I’m more aware of all the seats and personalities than I used to be, probably because of the internet coverage.

Dutton might be losing Dickson.

SO sad...

[quote=baker]But why blame Djokovic for this?[/quote]

No free will, eh? :snicker:


[quote=Banno]You mistake me for someone who might care.[/quote]

:snicker: Djokivic is in Bulgaria and you're in Terra Australis. He can't do anything to you, neither can you to him.

Looks like it's the good beer... maybe.

Leader of the opposition.

oh my god this beer is so good its a 14.5%

Four Greens in the Lower House...!

That's nice.

:party:

Champers opened.

Reply to Wayfarer :up:

Reply to Streetlight :wink:

Frydenberg is gone.

Scotty doesn't hold a government

[quote=Banno]So where the bloody hell are you?[/quote]

In a better place ( :death: ) :snicker:

Going to bed with a smile for the first time in years.

Very glad to hear some good news. I hope it translates into climate action.

Reply to Tom Storm :up:

Reply to Xtrix Seems that there are four greens in the House of Reps, along with a block of environmentally-minded independents whom the Labor Party will need on side; and a surge towards Green representation in the Senate. The stupidity of the previous ten years will be reversed.

Quoting Banno

Seems that there are four greens in the House of Reps, along with a block of environmentally-minded independents whom the Labor Party will need on side; and a surge towards Green representation in the Senate. The stupidity of the previous ten years will be reversed.

Music to my ears.

Quoting Xtrix

Music to my ears.

We are singin' and dancin' down under.

Here's an analysis of Morrison's performance by one of the better-known journos. (I don't think it's paywalled, it's from the Sydney Morning Herald's website which allows visitors a small number of articles.) I think it's plausible that Morrison's political career is over, although I don't know if anyone's saying that. The likely candidate to replace him is an obnoxious ex-policeman with the endearing nickname of Potato Head, whom I'm sure will lead the remnant of the conservatives ever deeper into the wilderness.

I'll also add, although this thread should probably be put out to pasture now, that the greatest act of political bastardry in Australian history was the Conservative's abolition of a functional and efficient Emissions Trading Scheme in 2014, which had been legislated by the previous Labor government. This program was working exactly as intended and would have put Australia a long way towards meeting environmental goals, and it was torpedoed out of pure political malice and pig-headed ignorance. The main offender met his electoral demise in the 2019 elections at the hands of one of the 'Climate Independents' and has since left politics altogether, but this single act wrought damage that may never be reversed, and ultimately was one of the major factors in the Conservative's wipeout last night.

Reply to Wayfarer

The Coalition has always been a schizophrenic compromise between liberal and conservative.

So the question now is if the Liberal party will return to liberal values, perhaps with Teals joining them, or under Mr Potato head, move to the right in the hope of drawing back the votes for One Nation and UAP.

If the former, then there is a greater chance of their right wing splitting into a seperate Conservative party, taking the right-wing vote. But more likely, there will be further fragmentation on the Right, with the vote split even further between small parties. The result might marginalise the Right and give us a progressive, liberal centre party.

If the Latter, which I think more likely, we would expect to see more fear-mongering, the politics of schism and bullshit. That has been an affective strategic choice for Liberals for decades. It is what will occur if Dutton is elected as their leader.

SO the next question is, might the Liberal Party see Dutton as a liability? IF so, we may see a change for the better in Australian Politics. If not, we will see more of the same.

Quoting Banno

votes for One Nation and UAP.

speaking of which, how did they go? I saw not one reference to [s]Jabba the Hut[/s] Clive Palmer in the coverage. Last I heard the unvaxed Hanson had a pretty bad case of COVID. I'll have to look into it. (I did hear that nitwit Kelly got a well-deserved drubbing.)

Quoting Banno

SO the next question is, might the Liberal Party see Dutton as a liability?

I'm sure Dutton would be an electoral disaster. I can't understand how anyone in their right mind could see him as viable candidate for PM. Let's see what happens.

For those in foreign parts, the Liberal Party only governs in coalition with another party, the National Party. The National Party is the remnant of various rural political parties, ingrained into various agricultural electorates around the country.

The Liberal Party itself is an amalgam of a moderate, urban liberal base, with a range of conservatives, mostly with religious credentials.

Labor is the original socialist party, the model on which UK labor was built, and is the largest party in Australia. While it has held government for fewer years than the Coalition, it is responsible for all but a very few of the major advances in Australian government. Historically, when Australians want stability, they vote Liberal. When they want things done, they vote for Labor.

The odd thing about this election is that although Labor have won, the primary vote for both Liberal and Labor fell; the vote fell for both major parties.

You might picture Australian politics as like the UK Labor Party against an alliance of the Democrats and Republicans.

Reply to Wayfarer It is with tears in my eyes that I have to report that Craig Kelly has lost his seat. He managed to gather less than eight percent of the vote in his electorate, Hughes. The seat will return to the Liberals. Doubtless Clive will continue to split the conservative vote, to the advantage of our nation as a whole.

Quoting Wayfarer

I'm sure Dutton would be an electoral disaster. I can't understand how anyone in their right mind could see him as viable candidate for PM.

Remember that this is the party that thought an onion-eater was a good choice.

Best result: the Liberals fall apart, the right of politics descending into years of self-loathing and mutual destruction. More likely, the Liberals continue their machiavellian bullshitting under Dutton and are returned to power in a few years. There remains a small chance of a progressive, central liberal party shaking off the conservatives and merging with the Teal candidates who represent their core values.

One more delicious morsel - it looks highly likely that the repulsive Hanson will be defeated by the Greens. And all of the wannabee QAnon-antivax loony rightists have been thoroughly trounced (including the equally repulsive Christenson).

https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/05/22/clive-palmer-pauline-hanson-one-nation-uap-freedom-movement/

One does not often quote Sky News...
Quoting Sky news

Meanwhile, France's outgoing foreign affairs minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, took the opportunity to have a swipe at Mr Morrison following the relationship turning sour over the AUKUS trilateral security pact.

Mr Morrison scrapped the $90 billion conventional submarine deal with France and opted to secure a new arrangement in September with the United States and United Kingdom to secure nuclear-powered submarines.

"I can't stop myself from saying the defeat of Morrison suits me very well," Mr Le Drian said in a ceremony where he handed over his duties to successor Catherine Colonna.

He added he hopes Australia and France "can resume frank and constructive dialogue" and claimed the deal was axed with "brutality and cynicism, and I would even be tempted to say of unequivocal incompetence”.

Drat. Looks like Pauline Hanson will scrape in (conditional on her getting past COVID) in the last place on the QLD Senate Ticket. But at least the imbecilic Malcolm Roberts is gone, and she hasn't, to my knowledge, picked up any further seats, so she'll be the Lone Whinger. It's a role that will suit her.

Reply to Wayfarer Roberts appears to be continuing...?

Is he? How disappointing. Thought he’d gone.

The scale of LNP defeat is actually wild:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/GrogsGamut/status/1528555595334230016?s=20&t=bT-5o5fAYnvwZwt83nqULw[/tweet]

Guess there is something to be thankful to Scott Morrison about.

Can’t see Robert’s name on the AEC list of QLD candidates….

Reply to Wayfarer He won't be on the AEC list if he is continuing...

ABC site has him as continuing.

‘ 40 of the 76 Senate seats are being decided at this election.’ Hadn’t realized that. Oh well.

Scotty's not the problem, in a "democracy" individuals are never the problem unless you wanna admit that it's not...a democracy.

:snicker:

Armed with only a small band of volunteers and a Queensland war chest considerably south of $20,000, the Legalise Cannabis Australia party – headquartered at Nimbin’s Hemp Embassy – is not without hope of a spectacular Senate upset.

The upstart micro-party is seeking to snatch the sixth and final Queensland vacancy from right-wing warrior Pauline Hanson, whose One Nation party (PHON) has bled votes in its traditional Queensland heartland and suffered an upper-house swing against it of 2.5 percentage points.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/queensland/a-pleasant-surprise-the-niche-party-challenging-pauline-hanson-in-qld-20220523-p5anop.html

:pray:

Hanson will scrape in, it seems, but she’s going to be very much on her own.

Also wanted to put on the record here that I WAS WRONG about Albanese. IN the early part of the campaign I expressed doubts about his capacity, but I have been proven completely mistaken on that.

Reply to Wayfarer The right whinge (sic.) has a problem in that it is based on the (self-) worship of particular individuals - Palmer, Hanson, Katter and so on; it's inherent in their "rugged individualist" ideology that they depend on individuals. As a result the right is too schismatic to be effective in an election.

The only alternative to the Greens on the left is Legalise Cannabis Australia. And their left wing credentials are debatable.

Hanson still has Roberts for company.

Albanese does appear to be growing as we watch. Interesting.

“He fucked us and his fingerprints are absolutely fuckin’ everywhere on that,” a moderate Liberal MP says. “The bloke thinks he is a master strategist. He is a fuckwit.”

:blush:

https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/politics/2022/05/28/coalition-loss-the-transphobe-thing-was-absolute-disaster

One last post:

Home Affairs report confirms Scott Morrison pressured department to reveal election day boat interception

Nasty, little man.

Turns out his story wasn't finished. He didn't trust his own ministers.

Scott Morrison gave two reasons for secretly taking on five ministerial roles. But his lack of trust is what's most extraordinary

I think Dougie Herd has it about right...

This above all - to thine own self be true

Report into former prime minister Scott Morrison's secret ministries released

'"corrosive" to trust in government'...