Sumyung Gui

It doesn't have to be human.

Suffering I think.

Okay. I mean you posted on a forum, you should expect people to respond. Daft stuff altogether.

My point is that there is a good reason the religions exist right? Just another version of "why don't you commit suicide?"

You're speaking for those billions of people who are religious too? For those it doesn't seem life in and of itself is good.

Including me. For existing people!

They don't exist nothing can be good or bad for them. Only existing people can suffer or enjoy harms and benefits.

I'll just keep asking; for whom is it bad?

You said celebrating harms. Did you not? No one is doing that.

So why is it okay give people age related disease and loss of ability?

Correct! Which is neutral! Nothing immoral has happened.

Procreation is intrinsically NOT a personal matter. Firstly you need two people to do it and a third or even more persons are created who have no say ...

My leg not yours! You will give your kids the gift of disease and decay for your needs without the possibility of consent. That's what my thought expe...

There is nobody to be miss those goods. How come you can't see that?

Absolutely you're kind of getting it. I don't think we need to worry then about creating people no one gets hurt because of our needs if we choose not...

If this is true no one would procreate.

Bad for whom?

The answer is no one will be harmed by this. The non existent don't suffer.

It's complete unacceptable to me, has been the root cause of so much ugliness.

Only for people who exist to be deprived of goods. No it wouldn't lol. There'd be no one there to be haunted! Please tell me you can recognise that? I...

They're not tho. We've no duty to create them. If the universe went silent there'd be no issue. Only to existing people. Only for those who exist in s...

Camus was wrong <shrugs> Religious Buddhists believe something as unverifiable and irrationally optimistic as Christians. But they're not necessary. A...

She was an ardent Christian. Died at 47. Hard to know how authentic he was. No because no one is deprived of the happiness. No one suffers. No one los...

Ah religion. Can't really go much further with that. Only to those who exist. Not to prospective beings.

But you're surely not suggesting creating blind people so that they can learn to be resilient? That's perverse. Or I'm insane.

Resilience? Wait why is that in the list?

Does this justify procreation tho?

XD

Okay so we're talking about the asymmetry now? Or my week?

We're trying to walk two paths here. 1) the asymmetry we could talk about that. 2) you talking about my perceptions of my life. 1) is fine to talk abo...

I agree with the asymmetry don't get me wrong. I think it's correct. Benatar just formalized something I already thought. If you could be terribly wro...

Well I don't judge my experiences of the world by what Benatar tells me. I suppose you have the correct perspective then?

Okay I guess that's the impasse then. Telling people they're not perceiving things right and that their feelings are invalid is patronizing.

I'm curious, are you aware of the axiological asymmetry? "There are also moments of fulfilment even when we don't care." How patronizing.

"There is no empirical evidence that most people don't value their lives or that there aren't good moments that we did not expect." Well cool, because...

Omg. I don't know why it would seem attractive from the outside.

I'm none the wiser.

Ah. No I mean now.

Yes. Still curious why people find it attractive.

I have no idea. Christianity as I understand it is false. But there you are promised salvation whatever it means. Stoicism is far less anchored.

"with a touch of Optimism" How much and of what?

Oh I know what it is. I'm just not sure why it's attractive. I was raised Christian unfortunately.

What is attractive about Stoicism tho? This is the part that baffles me.

Empirically this is just not true.

Thanks, I guess there is some value in asking the question at the same time.

What progress do you speak of? A lot of the progress I see is in the ability to support more and more sentient beings. But I'm not sure if that's just...

Yes this is pretty strange.

This argument strikes me as at best indentured servitude to a hypothetical or slavery to a hypothetical at worst. Am I off the mark? "You must exist a...

"Firstly, most people do seem to value their lives" One can value one's life and because of that come to the conclusion of antinatalism. "I value my l...