Kenosha Kid

Indeed, it's interesting even that the second scotch tastes like the first too, even if not exactly alike, because it isolates the 'what it is like' f...

That's fair. Even objects are mini-theories :smile: :up: Yes, it's an interesting thought experiment, and as I said earlier: I expect in this case, as...

It's perfectly comprehensible. The characters believe they can create a thing that tastes like whiskey. That doesn't mean that one whiskey tastes the ...

That second if... I'm not, that's the point, except in response to your more theory-centric way of thinking. We're probably going far too deep into wh...

It's useful to talk about something when you want to discuss it too, not just theories about it or not about it. I don't need a theory of eggs to talk...

And to mine it shouldn't be until the thing we mean by it is ruled out. All it means is having to come up with new terminology to describe the same th...

Yes, I was saying this about qualia too. It may be, in the final wisdom, that it's not actually useful at all, for instance if, with advanced understa...

I didn't get that at all from what you said, thanks for clarifying. Can you cite the established meaning? I'm checking all the usual sources... Wikipe...

I think I said 'baby', but otherwise: yes. :up: Well no, but there wasn't really anything to go on. It was just a flat contradiction. However... I'm i...

I get you. I'd explain it as: I don't adopt a position for the sake of adopting a position. That is, I don't subscribe wholesale to philosophical posi...

Sensation? That doesn't seem right either. I don't think I know the word for it, but I'm pretty certain perception isn't it. I covered this here: No, ...

Yeah, I agree with this. I guess one could posit an ideal set of justifications, wrt which other justifications are inferior. The whole thing is prett...

Just for clarity, that quote from me was not in response to that quote from Isaac.

Ah, I understand. I wouldn't call actual excitement of nerves in the skin perception, though. I think we're just using the terms differently. Percepti...

Oh well now I've totally lost faith in your proclamations. How would you know if you haven't read any of them?

Definitely. But in the meantime... Let's say you know that the answer to some question is X not Y, i.e. you have whatever standard of truth is necessa...

It's the brain that's doing it. Perception is a brain function.

^ A pertinent sample, but replying to whole. Yeah I thought we'd get onto this. Then I say, but there's a difference between me passively seeing somet...

Thanks, that's what I was meaning.

Stop, hippy! Well can I turn that around and ask how you think we're conscious of the building of these models? As it's not something I recognise and ...

Oh that's interesting. So we have models of the processes of model-building. Perhaps this is pathological, but I am not aware of these processes. I kn...

Oh definitely, but the usual demonstrations are about someone who has a justified belief that then proves true but for the wrong reason. I find it's t...

You'd have to ask someone who believes we have it, not someone who thinks it's a nonsense. Divinely granted insight? Creeping tendrils of perfect cons...

Do you seriously observe no difference between recognising that we don't have direct perception of objects and a full-on subscription to dualism? I ge...

Rubbish, I've quoted it at you three times in response to your "you can't refer to objects" comments. Not at all. If the external world is a hypothesi...

I know I said but I guess there's a twisted pleasure in saying it four times: If you're gathering: irrespective of what I write, I wonder what you're ...

Well, it might well grind to a halt. In fact, I think it _is_ grinding to a halt. But not because of a heroic uprising against measures to keep staff ...

And I'll leave you unable to distinguish between a thing and a representation of a thing, screaming with terror at a photo of a great white :smirk:

All's well that ends well.

The emboldened bit is a straw man. Substituting in your own "clarifications" to critique is unnecessary. And "attempting" has nothing to do with it. S...

If that's as compelling an argument for it we're going to get, so much for that. This has already been addressed twice. But this isn't the issue at ha...

That makes no sense. I am conscious of what I'm conscious of. Whether I'm mistaken about what it is is irrelevant to what I'm conscious of. The model ...

Sounds like you do your own research. My partner had covid, really bad. I slept with her every night. Truth told, there was grown up stuff happening t...

So your real qualm isn't with mandates but the quality of the PPE provided to you. It's odd, isn't it, that a slip-up like that can make you look like...

I don't know what you mean by "vague objects". I don't commit to, or even entertain, direct perception of objects because it conflicts with evidence a...

I think it's me putting that to you Never said otherwise, although in my description of the shorthand way we use language, I originally omitted the la...

If you want it broken down into simpler pieces, I have done that too: There's no recursion here No, I commit to all of reality, I won't cherry-pick. W...

Why not get a good one? Are you wearing it wrong, or is it just the crapness of the mask? A good mask, worn correctly, will reduce your aerosol spray ...

So you're advocating mask-wearing? Cool.

Long time! I think "justified" just means "with good reason", not "retrospectively justified". If my partner says my keys are on the coffee table and ...

Getting mixed messages... Wasn't the mask-wearer the hero fighting for freedom?

:up: They _are_ properties of experience, by definition, aren't they? Although I sometimes see people talk about them as if they are _objects_ of expe...

Oh, of course, alternative medicine peddlars and those who publish in reputable scientific journals like The Journal of Near Death Experiences are exe...

Sure, that would be a generalisation, from how we talk about things to how we think about or model things. I was just talking about Banno's language, ...

I wasn't generalising, I just meant collapsing the distinction between objects and our experiences of them in language doesn't seem helpful for talkin...

And if any scientist should make a compelling argument that consciousness resides in the brain, she should be put under house arrest in the name of ra...

If... Is this you introducing the idea, or a mistranslation of mine? Reference to the object is not experience of the object, but a shorthand for refe...

I'd put it down to the fact that people are far less in awe of sacred cows these days. It's a good time for balloon poppers. Or was, for a while.

I'm not sure why. If you needed a biological machine for figuring out which information to integrate and which to overlook, a brain seems like a good ...

Aside from saving me from prepending every reference to an object with "my experience of", acknowledging the shorthand allows me to ponder how we get ...