ToothyMaw

Sorry for being vulgar, but you are kind of derailing this thread. If you want to discuss moral indignation as a source of pleasure please make a diff...

Actually it totally is where I am. I want moral responsibility to be a tangible thing. That would make me happy, but I try not to just work backwards ...

If you are referring to my own indignation I think it was justified. Seriously, though? Judgement is about power, not truth? What kind of shitty philo...

Then I suppose most people live a pretty sad existence. Maybe our government should just exert its power and put them out of their misery.

I still don't understand what your argument is; you've barely even addressed the OP directly.

Maybe for an authoritarian regime that murders people for speaking their minds.

How could an ultimate knower not know the outcome of someone's decisions unless free will exists? Even if they change their mind all of that would be ...

But the point I made is that determinism must be proven false to justify moral accountability. I don't contend that it is true in the OP; my point is ...

I mean you didn't even quote the OP in your first post.

Alright, to be honest I'm very confused by your line of argumentation. Are you saying that no ultimate knower is possible, and thus determinism is fal...

Unless I'm mistaken we can model things like projectile motion or the elliptical orbit of moons with an accuracy that is sufficient to be in agreement...

I don't see what the issue is with this assertion. If the universe is deterministic everything is predetermined. What you seem to be getting at is tha...

By determinism I mean that if one had knowledge of every state of the universe one could predict the actions of any being in it. Also, yes, on a more ...

I still would like to see what you have to say.

Thank you!

I think the idea of free will is internally coherent, but it doesn't exist.

I don't see how this is the case. If one could have acted in a different way, altering the present, then this means that said person could have chosen...

(Clearer OP) I will get this out of the way: this is primarily about the functioning of code law in terms of our moral principles; code law does not n...

Whether or not something is manslaughter, first degree murder, etc. is dependent upon interpretation of law and circumstances, and is not specific eno...

Okay, here is an example: a deranged philosophy forum poster goes on a sexist tirade. They should only be held responsible if they were making a free ...

You were active twelve minutes ago and posted that comment seven minutes ago. You spent five minutes reading. You could try a little harder.

Is it that difficult to understand?

I suppose for actions that are considered absolutely free and incredibly selfish justice might be more relevant; a cogent, mentally healthy person who...

I think that even with the more substantive view, however, the "something" is ontologically different from the potential original cause that can satis...

I thought about it: I suppose the action is being viewed as an accident of free choice, and that I'm not engaging with the fact that it is, on a subst...

I think laws should exist only insofar as they create social cohesion, human flourishing, animal flourishing, etc. I think that compassion should info...

You represented it well. Wish I could read a post on the fly and understand it like that.

Well, I wrote this, but it took quite a bit of thought. Had to do a lot of googling.

You put it so simply; elegant writing really.

Perfect. Yes, that is correct. But this only applies for rules that are very specific; they must have circumstances that are distinct built into them....

If that's true then how could moral rules follow from values at all, something you are a proponent of? Values spread across a people are contradictory...

Reason is, at the very least, one of the most valuable tools we have, along with the science, and has done immense amounts of work in terms of our und...

When the fuck did I say that? But if we don't get that stuff passed it won't even exist to be repealed. I'll respond to this tomorrow. Common ground w...

Yes, I'm not suggesting seizing power and instituting autocratic rule, I'm talking about pushing for the policies that are popular with most everyday ...

I should also add: many are emotionally invested in a narrative in which personal character and intention mean more than the consequences of actions. ...

Almost all of the criticisms of Obama made by progressives are entirely factual and indicative of a conscience, not emotional fragility. People who ar...

I just can't stand the emphasis on civility and compromise being presented by the centrists, trying to unite the country somehow, as if that would be ...

You are right philosophim, we weren't disagreeing, and I just posted some bullshit about representativeness and truth values. My bad to anyone reading...

I should specify: by religious beliefs I mean believed characteristics and actions of god, not ethics and rules and such.

The point I was trying to make, mostly for argument's sake, is that religious language, while conveying meaning, is so confused that religious beliefs...

One needs to find a balance between precision and accessibility. The more obscure and technical the topic, the more precise the language generally nee...

That sounds interesting. I'll definitely read some of him. I am inclined to think faith is undesirable being a humanist, but maybe faith does have a p...

Yeah, I agree to a certain extent. I still think religion has outlived its usefulness, and that viewing it as a collection of stories/metaphors/source...

Why would someone need to demonstrate anything about reality if they are making a baseless claim? In fact, Wittgenstein was brought up because it seem...

What says that they understand it? There is nothing saying that there can't be dissonance.

Did Wittgenstein actually talk about religion? Or are you just applying what he had to say? Did some research and you seem to just be applying Wittgen...

Well, I can't disagree with that. I think religion serves practical purposes, and I also agree that religious people tacitly agree to use religion for...

I agree. People often consider the norms established by god to be part of reality, (god is omnipotent, so he could make them an objective facet of rea...

I suppose so, but it makes sense to me that god's actions would be atemporal if god exists outside time. This can be understood, even if it is impossi...

Seriously? Only jews'/muslims' ideas of god?