Tzeentch

Maybe so.

I would say that anyone who feels they cannot guarantee the safety of others while driving should not get behind the wheel.

This keeps being repeated, and it seems to be the last wall to hide behind, but you build your walls flimsy indeed. Tell me then, for who is it we see...

They are unable. They may believe life is worth living, but there's no way of knowing whether their child will. Indeed. Sounds like a fantastic reason...

Clearly a parent gets to decide whether they want to create children. Indeed. They want a child and therefore they will create one. So what justificat...

Indeed, the parent gets to decide. And what justification do they have for making that decision? Because the parent was born involuntarily, so should ...

You have objected to the question. You have not answered it. But enough slithering and crawling. Since you seem so hung up on semantics I'll rephrase ...

If you answered it, I must've missed it.

It is what it is. Good. It's not about truth or liking. All I know is that it raises questions I cannot answer, and, judging by the tone of our conver...

Well, nothing I have read here suggests proselytizing, but maybe I am wrong. What I have described is the way I look at the matter, at least. How so? ...

Oh. It was controversial?

You inject half way in discussions between other people and take things out of context. What you quoted wasn't about improving life. It was an attempt...

Views are not actors, but to follow the spirit of your comment I would say no. I don't seek to create such a universe. I haven't seen anyone here expr...

I can't say I don't appreciate a little armchair psychology, but this makes little sense. The anti-natalist viewpoint as I have seen it expressed in t...

Great comment. I quite frankly don't know what there is left to say.

Because it's at the core of the issue. By your use of the word "we" I'm assuming you are a parent? The individual one is considering forcing into exis...

Sure. The reason is simple; even if one intends to do good by birthing a child, the ends (odds for a happy life) do not justify the means (forcing som...

At what odds would it be acceptable to force someone to jump from a plane? One would be forcing an individual to experience life, without being able t...

No one forces you to breathe, so I don't think this is a good comparison. Well, everyone is free to make such an assessment for themselves. Things get...

In the context of our discussion those things cannot be seen seperately. Not being able to get consent for an important decision that is made on someo...

You don't force people to eat your ice cream.

I'm just being honest. Obviously, I don't know where they are. But I can say beyond a reasonable doubt that no one is born voluntarily. Would you jump...

Who knows? That is not something I have claimed. Consent has been the core issue. Indeed. That is exactly the issue. If I have to make a decision on s...

This is not what I have argued. An unborn child developing into an individual with a will and well-being is (generally speaking) a logical consequence...

Not only is one forcing an individual to do something that has great consequences without their consent, but one is also incapable of estimating the o...

I disagree. One could come to the conclusion that the consequences of their actions cannot be sufficiently understood. A good reason to refrain from s...

It is not. It is taking into account what will logically come about as a consequence of one's actions.

What are such overarching moral principles based on, other than the well-being of would-be children? Indeed. Isn't that a great reason to think twice ...

Not quite. My premise started with an analysis of what child birth is; forcing an individual to experience life without their consent. Your objection ...

Explain it then, instead of beating around the bush.

It's what and I were discussing before you interjected. You noted it was "dealt with" and "not a problem".

Premise: The interests of a future child do not exist. Implication: Actions that willfully undermine said child's non-existent interests are acceptabl...

I've noticed that these implications have been pointed out on several occasions by you, and I, and none of us have received much response.

So then, do you accept the implication of your premise? The problem is simple. If one accepts the premise that children do not have a well-being to ta...

It wasn't dealt with. It was cleverly avoided. You're presented your premise. I've presented you with an implication of that premise. If you accept on...

Then we arrive at the problem already presented:

So are they important or not? You seem to be beating around the bush here. If not the interests of the child, from where do these obligations stem? An...

If the interests of the child aren't important, then whose interests are? The desires of the parents? And doesn't your mention of obligations imply th...

Let's say one lives in absolutely dire poverty and there is no doubt that any offspring one may bring forth will also lead a short and miserable life....

Protection implies more parties are involved (AKA, parent protects their would-be child from a third party). I am arguing from the viewpoint of the pa...

I don't think that needs to be argued. The argument is simply that one should not purposefully put an individual in a situation that they did not (or ...

Because without it one risks causing harm or distress against an individual's will, regardless of one's intention.

I haven't made up my mind about anti-natalism yet, but I think the most difficult question it raises is what exactly justifies the act of forcing some...

If that is the case I blame short memories.

This is the key question, I believe. I would take it one step back. The driving force behind our behavior is a desire to be happy. The evolutionary pr...

A slave without a master is a slave nonetheless. Cute. Not a polite way to start a conversation. Keep your condescending diatribe to yourself.

Is there any reason that the individual should be content with being a slave to the evolutionary process? And what rational analysis pertaining to thi...

Assuming one finds a monster to be dwelling in their sub-/unconscious, wouldn't one want to understand how it works and what it is doing there? I'd sa...

Gloating over someone's lynching. That's absolutely disgusting.

Deal with it? I think we've already established you're the one who is having a hard time accepting the fact that other views exist. And that is your p...