RegularGuy

I’m trying to figure out how you justify your belief that reality is directly apprehended.

I value my property, too. To call it a right that isn’t given by a State set up through a social contract would require some kind of ad hoc argument, ...

So, how does one know that insects perceive UV light? From what reference point is that given? How do we know the structure of atoms? Has anyone ever ...

That’s true. I don’t think anyone would deny that. What does that have to do with my examples, though? One cannot perceive atoms or perceive the way i...

Yes, that was one example. Your example of certain insects seeing ultraviolet light is also an example. We are not insects.

I don’t see your point. Sorry.

:lol:

Do you see atoms when you look at a chair? The idea of atoms is a theory.

Sorry. I don’t believe that I was thinking about the right thread. You’re right about being precise about language.

Then what is the point of theorizing or the scientific method? Theory and science are needed exactly because perceiving doesn’t give us the things in ...

:grin: How is that different than what I said?

Yes, I know all of this. This just strengthens my argument and weakens yours.

I understand all of these things. I’m pointing out that perception doesn’t give you the things in themselves. This brings us back to perception. Perce...

That’s what I’m getting at that you don’t seem to be getting. I don’t think we understand each other.

Yes, visible light is electromagnetic radiation, but not all electromagnetic radiation is visible light, for example, the color of oranges. Microwaves...

Can a point of reference be “considered” without conceptualization or perception? That is what I’m getting at.

But visible light is what humans perceive when it comes to oranges.

We were talking about points of reference, not the flux of reality.

Yes, I know but the discussion was about the color of oranges. We were talking about perception of color.

Category error, I think.

Except that has nothing to do with color which is visible light.

Okay. Now I know! Thank you.

Exactly how fast does an orange have to travel in order for there to be blue or red shift detected? I’m ignorant on this subject.

What possible benefit could it have if we’re all on autopilot (unconscious motivations)?

A lot of Native American tribes had communal property, and they were successful for millennia before the white man. I have no desire to read ad hoc ar...

??? How doesn’t that relate to the OP?

Well, if you mean that some traits are “evolutionary riders” that weren’t specifically selected for, then no, I don’t think we understand differently....

Good epigenetics implies good nature and good nurture. “Good” here means to me that which is valued by society. You seem more productive than me.

Same question to you then. What is the evolutionary use of consciousness?

If determinism is true, then what would be the use of consciousness?

It sounds like you’re on autopilot a lot of the time. I’m not like that. I don’t do much. I think it’s epigenetics. Good nature and good nurture.

For example, did you have a good childhood? Do you have lots of good relationships? Do you enjoy your work? Is it good epigenetics?

But what about you in particular makes you more motivated than me or Schopenhauer?

So you both believe that consciousness is an epiphenomen?

Not all of it. Not for me. I need a good reason to do a lot of things. Also, my emotions (which I’m consciously aware of), help or hinder performing a...

But is it anti-realist?

He’s a determinist. He believes your lack of drive was determined since the Big Bang.

If you lack drive, you’re probably depressed, something that seems apparent to me given my familiarity with your discussions.

You’re going to shatter her reason for living.

The limbic system provides drive. The frontal lobe organizes the world. That’s what the neuroscientists say anyways.

Maybe it partly has to do with indoctrination, partly socialization (learning right from wrong), partly rational thought (the hypothetical imperative)...

I like them. I also don’t like my wife getting upset with me, so I do other things (perceived coercion), too.

Yes, I was trying to say something like this. “Unintelligible” is a better word than “incoherent.”

I do consent to being governed, so I guess that’s where we differ. The US government is supposed to be answerable to the people, but that was until th...

It’s a drive to accomplish something I personally value. If my drive (or what some might call a lack of drive) is to do philosophy (what others might ...

But I suppose you could say that these judges are not truly right wing libertarian. They think they are, however.

If it weren’t for right wing libertarian judges declaring corporations as people with rights, then the State wouldn’t be oppressive. We are supposed t...

I don’t think this way.

Desire or perceived coercion.

“Reference” implies a referring to something. Can something refer to something else without conceptualization or perception? That is what I can’t figu...