khaled

Sigh. Read the whole comment please. I show why one of the interpretations (the one we happen to be discussing) is inconsistent with that. This is MWI...

Yes, and that would be arguing in bad faith too. The Nazi is wasting his time talking to you, he won't change your mind ever. And likely not you his. ...

Sure, but to know that anyone who disagrees with you has a bad assessment is the definition of arguing in bad faith. You pretend to: But really you do...

Maybe I will. And to you I'd suggest you pay more attention to when someone is saying "Conscious attention is the only thing that can cause wave funct...

Within the math of classical mechanics. In Quantum mechanics it is very much inconsistent. Because there are 2 alternatives in quantum mechanics: 1- T...

It just makes sense to you because you haven't read enough and you have a mind-world, at the back of your mind at all times that is assumed and unchal...

If you already know this then how can consciousness be what collapses the wave function? When clearly, even without it the interference pattern would ...

I have challenged it on the metaethics and moral relativism thread and on other threads. And came up empty. It just doesn't make sense. If the object ...

? I legit don't understand what this sentence means. False. That's precisely the point. There are CONSEQUENCES to the wave not being resolved while we...

By "Objective world" I didn't mean a well defined one. I didn't mean that in the "objective world" everything is a resolved quantum wave, that's it's ...

I'm sorry if I was being confrontational. I don't mean to be, I'm just used to much less civil discussions with the likes of Bartricks. I didn't notic...

at least respond to how consciousness could have evolved in the first place without collapse. Or any of the other objections. If a dog uses the measur...

Yup. But again, “observation” doesn’t have to be conscious. If it were then consciousness would’ve never evolved in the first place! You need collapse...

So you think the alternatives are: Either consciousness is the only thing capable of causing wave functions collapse, or the observer problem doesn’t ...

But that’s not why the interpretation was largely discarded. It was discarded because it doesn’t make sense.

So your argument is: 1- If you think life is not too big an imposition then it’s because you’re biased and have an unreliable assessment. 2- Therefore...

Nothing. When did I say there is any conspiracy to push for philosophical idealism? But you did say that the von Neumann interpretation was avoided be...

Yup. I highly doubt a slave doesn’t see the limitations. They’re tied to his ankle. That’s the point here. Everyone sees the limitations. Everyone kno...

Not true. Not even for MWI. MWI is the theory that ALL the possibilities happen. As in a universe where the wave function collapsed to A is created an...

Again. Those are the same thing. To state all the options is to imply all the limitations and vice versa. What would you have wanted before you were b...

Again with the conspiracy theories. Maybe it's because it's problematic in itself? So far you haven't provided any good arguments for it. The first ar...

Oh no..... I have to work and I may occasionally get injured as an animal that lives in a certain place and time.... what a nightmare! That... is the ...

Ok, so when a couple is deciding not to have a child because he/she would suffer a lot that’s a moral decision. But also this. I don’t understand. Hav...

"Sacrifice" makes it seem like it's necessary for the happiness of the majority and that I wouldn't stop it if I could. An "acceptable consequence"? Y...

Sure, that's a variable. I guess we just don't agree about how big an imposition life is or how terrible it is. You think it's more like springing a t...

Then it depends on the world I suppose. Is the average experience good or bad? I've been thinking about it more and I don't think the notion of forcin...

Not an AN anymore but I keep hearing this. This would imply that having children is never wrong. It would also imply that genetically modifying someon...

You already have my answer then. Shouldn’t start, but shouldn’t stop once started. Assuming the needs of the people that exist trumps the harm that ca...

I know you’re not addressing me but my answer to this is: definitely yes. If everyone in Wonka’s world feels it’s worth it, then absolutely keep on en...

Yes. Which means it's not the consciousness doing it. If the wave was already collapsed by the time it made it through your eyes, before it got proces...

Yes there is: https://arxiv.org/ftp/quant-ph/papers/0509/0509042.pdf Basically: If we can prove that the eyes cause wave function collapse fully, then...

No plenty of things are more complicated than "It all happens". If it all happens there is no more need to calculate why it all happens. No need to ca...

Fair enough I misunderstood. If we did an experiment that showed that even without any conscious observers the wave would collapse anyways, would it b...

Sure. But if one of them is unreasonable it makes the other unreasonable. Do you think Is reasonable?

As a belief you clearly find unreasonable since you call having it being "In denial"

Ok let's take it bit by bit: I ask: You respond: If the belief that consciousness is required for wave function collapse, for you, is as reasonable as...

You think this is unreasonable yes? And if this: is as reasonable as that then you think it's unreasonable. Great. We're agreed.

So no then. Great! We're agreed.

Ok cool. So anyway do you think it's reasonable to believe that consciousness is required for quantum wave collapse?

So, we can agree that none of what you've said so far offers evidence for idealism? Because theories that have it collapse are infinitely more complic...

How is it introduced by me? You say that a conscious observer is required. Not just any measuring apparatus. In the end, the quantum event must be mea...

Point is, the quantum wave will collapse in that case. That is the contention here. It is what (pretty much) all the scientists think. Also from your ...

That's not what's meant by "observation" in the copenhagen interpretation. Just from a skim of wikipedia: "A common perception of "the" Copenhagen int...

Not an experiment. But you manage to do it. I manage to do it in the same way. So does everyone I think. Which is precisely why physicists at large do...

Then no he shouldn't start it. Correct. Once started he shouldn't stop it.

Right. And all I was saying is that it’s implausible that most experts (from trustworthy institutions that have no motivation to lie about this) sayin...

But you have some confidence in them. Where does that come from? All the evidence you have that they do is what was written in your physics textbook. ...

Can you put two electrons next to each other yourself? I doubt it. You must have been told they do. How did you learn that two electrons repel each ot...

Ok, why?

If none are forgeries, yes. Sigh. When someone tells you electrons are attracted to other electrons, how do you know they're wrong? Or do you just not...