Terrapin Station

When I'm talking about causes and influences and their difference, I'm not forwarding an argument.

But an influence can occur immediately prior to what it's influencing. So why would you classify influences as "causes prior to other causes"? That's ...

Prior cause isn't a distinction. All causes are prior. That's a core part of the idea.

Maybe you think that other people are essentially robots?

Yeah, we haven't touched on those issues much. It's another big can of worms.

All causes are prior to what they cause. But sure, a cause can be further back temporally in a causal chain. How was I "begging the question 'in full ...

Not that I agree with the math fetishism he's espousing, but why wouldn't he just say that there's n liters of milk?

A good challenge for you is to find the speech that will cause me to think that speech can be causal to actions.

That's not what "begging the question" conventionally refers to, and you consider conventional usage correct, so per your views, that's incorrect.

Prior causes? As opposed to simultaneous causes or causes after the fact? You chose, against better judgment, to purchase Marx books. Good judgment wo...

haha

Well, and I'm actually serious about the sex assistance program(s). Watching the Rodger video, he strikes me as a guy just really frustrated about not...

Influences are not causes in any respect. Influences don't remove free will. Causes do. "Indirect cause" would only make sense as something far back i...

What? I didn't say that libertarianism was about "liberty" by the way. That's like people who think that "progressive rock" was literally about "progr...

You're the "video games cause violence" guy,

Brain damage, probably. I would say that he decided to take the actions he did, where he at least decided to credit Elliot Rodger as an influence on h...

Reviewing Elliot Rodger a bit more, I'd be in favor of something like a program dedicated to providing sex for anyone interested in having sex but hav...

I think it would be totally unreasonable of you to claim a causal link. Obviously, different people think that different things are reasonable.

"He was embroiled in incel culture"--is this known from people knowing something like a username he used on a message board or something? And if so, w...

Not that I needed to look him up to answer, actually, but no, of course I'd not say that someone should be held legally responsible for any crimes don...

No idea who that is off the top of my head. Looking it up now.

Had to refamiliarize myself with who he was just now, but the Wikipedia page says that, per his manifesto, "He explained that he wanted to punish wome...

When we're just looking observationally at the world at large, it would be difficult to even say that there's been an increase in hate speech. And the...

I'm mocking the notion of there being a strong enough correlation to conclude that hate speech is causal to violence.

That's fair, but if the numbers are so small--say that we had 500,000 people not exposed to hate speech and only 60 were subsequently violent, and the...

Okay. Maybe you'd do that but I wouldn't. I already gave examples of situations where I wouldn't at all say that. Is there seriously NO study where we...

Not that vaguely. I explained it and also copy-pasted the explanation again.

So we've gone from complaining re an imaginarily anticipated objection to any methodology suggested to complaining that I'd not have a problem with so...

Again,. you presenting your objections is irrelevant to whether I'd have a problem with it. I'd be fine with that. A larger sample size would be fine,...

That's not standard libertarianism. It's something you're making up/based on your own views rather. (Not that it matters if something is standard libe...

I already explained this to you above: "Parties involved in the action" excludes observers, by the way. Letting people do what they want to consensual...

Of course I wouldn't say that it "proves" anything, since that's a category error anyway. I'd simply say that there's not a problem with the methodolo...

I'm sure they do. So it wouldn't make any sense to ask them whether their challenges shouldn't be reasonable and warranted.

Just extrapolate from the example. We'd need some way to see just who is exposed to the hate speech in question--we could use something where it wasn'...

Do you think that I might be challenging something where I don't feel that it's reasonable or warranted?

Yes. Again, I have a problem with not allowing people to engage in whatever consensual actions they'd like to engage in. That's not resting on some ot...

No, it won't. Here's an easy example where that wouldn't be the case, an easy example of something where I'd say, "That's not flawed methodology:" An ...

I'd never be saying anything like it "should." It's just a matter of whether you care whether I agree with something, whether you care if I have a par...

Not allowing people to say/express whatever they feel like saying is bad in my opinion. Because we're not allowing something that they wish to do, whe...

Weren't you reading what I was writing? I'm challenging that there's the correlation that you're claiming there is. I already clarified that I'm sayin...

And there are not. :grin:

Opinions are evaluative. They tell us how someone feels about something. "Marmalade tastes great." "Stravinsky is a better composer than Haydn." "Main...

Right, that's what I was just explaining. The fact isn't the proposition itself (aside from the fact that the proposition was stated), the fact is wha...

Maybe folks are thinking that "factual" is an adjective that modifies "claim" in the sense of saying that the claim is a fact. But that's not the case...

Factual claim = a claim about a fact. Facts are states of affairs. Ways that the world happens to be. You can get wrong how the world happens to be. S...

Exactly.

It just depends on the policy we're talking about. People have a choice in how they act, but that doesn't necessarily give them a choice in how they'r...

Important parts of history claimed that speech is causal to actions? I must have missed that class.

What makes the message worth sending then? What's its practical value?

This argument works just as well from our side: "No, you're the one attempting to portray something really fucking obvious as though it is an absurdit...